Chinese Gold Demand Expert Koos Jansen


Koos Jansen is one of the world's most renowned experts on Chinese gold demand. He's honest and straightforward, which is certainly not something we are able to say about other global gold supply/demand experts, and this hour-long podcast is simply terrific. Please make the time to listen.

Here's just one example of what makes Koos great and why this interview is so worthwhile:

Do you know why silver prices in Shanghai seem to always be trading at a premium to London? Because the price quoted out of Shanghai includes a 17% VAT. Without the VAT, silver in Shanghai would be ay a discount to London! Where on earth have you ever heard that before? You see, that's what makes Koos so invaluable. He does his own independent research and he is beholden to no one so you're always going to get the straight skinny.

If you want the best information possible, be sure to follow Koos' work posted at In the meantime, do yourself a favor and listen to this entire podcast. It's wll worth your time.



Motley Fool
Oct 11, 2014 - 11:43am


Koos does good work.

Oct 11, 2014 - 11:44am

thank you so much Turd

treasure trove of information.

Oct 11, 2014 - 11:52am

And here is Koos' latest

So, the question is...Do you believe Koos AND THE HEAD OF THE SGE or do you believe the BS World Gold Council?

Oct 11, 2014 - 11:56am

Another option to lakes

Just came across this article on how gold can be dissolved and re-constituted.

Oct 11, 2014 - 12:58pm

‘Putin has destroyed a myth’ [Trade prevents war]

The European Union is in the midst of a crisis of confidence, Russia is overly aggressive and the United States has its most isolationist president in decades. In this context, are countries like Romania and Bulgaria in danger of a [communist] restoration?

Ivan Krastev: The real threat is dysfunction. Most of the regimes [in countries such as Romania and Bulgaria] are based on their populations’ activities, not on the economy. They would not have the capacity to fulfil the expectations of people aspiring to a better life.

This is the difference between the regime of [Russian president] Vladimir Putin and the populist regimes of Eastern Europe. That of Putin is based on natural resources. Putin does not depend on his people. Only one fifth of Russia’s active population produces anything. This is not the case with Bulgaria, Hungary or Romania. These countries have to do more to encourage trade, to attract foreign investors.

We are not witnessing a restoration [of communism]. I believe that, as long as Germany and other countries remain politically stable, the European Union can work against this sort of populist leadership.

Are you afraid of Putin?

IK: We should all be afraid of Putin, but I do not think Putin has territorial ambitions. He has other problems. He depends on an economy that he cannot control, because it fluctuates with petrol prices. He fears fragmentation within Russia. He also believes Russian elites are too dependent on the West, which holds their bank accounts and educates their progeny. As a consequence, he decided to nationalise the elites, which has led him into confrontation with the West and to close the country. And with our help, he is succeeding.

Germany seems to have greatly changed its policy towards Russia.

IK: If Russia has lost something important in this crisis, it is Germany. Because of its political manipulations and lies, Russia has lost the German political elite and the sympathy of German public opinion. A German official told me that what horrified him the most was the fact that Putin lied to him in person. [In this context] a responsible foreign policy is impossible. I have been told that [German chancellor] Angela Merkel called Putin and told him, “We have photographs of your tanks 80 kilometres over the border in Ukraine. What do you have to say?” To which Putin replied, “I am surprised. But we are so corrupt that these tanks were probably sold by someone within our own ranks.” This sort of approach is unacceptable.

But the larger problem is that Putin has destroyed a myth: the one that says economic interdependence prevents war. We have witnessed that if one partner chooses to provoke, not only does interdependence fail to prevent war, but it also slows down any reaction. Regardless of the extent of the interdependence.

I was not prepared for Putin to declare that he did not want to live by the economy alone, but also enter into history. My greatest fear would be for Putin to convince other nations that economic independence is the sole solution. If that comes to be, the populist tendency will be reinforced.

Oct 11, 2014 - 1:03pm

Second leaker in US intelligence, says Glenn Greenwald

The investigative journalist Glenn Greenwald has found a second leaker inside the US intelligence agencies, according to a new documentary about Edward Snowden that premiered in New York on Friday night.

Towards the end of filmmaker Laura Poitras’s portrait of Snowden – titled Citizenfour, the label he used when he first contacted her – Greenwald is seen telling Snowden about a second source.

Snowden, at a meeting with Greenwald in Moscow, expresses surprise at the level of information apparently coming from this new source. Greenwald, fearing he will be overheard, writes the details on scraps of paper.

Oct 11, 2014 - 1:20pm

Many people have sent me the

Many people have sent me the following article related to a huge meeting next week with the heads of the US and UK financial regulators. The meeting has to do with the ability to wind down large "Too Big to Fail" banks. Here's one of the articles:

U.S. and UK to test big bank collapse in joint model run

"Treasury Secretary Jack Lew and the UK's Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, on Monday will run a joint exercise simulating how they would prop up a large bank with operations in both countries that has landed in trouble."

"Also taking part are Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen and Bank of England Governor Mark Carney, and the heads of a large number of other regulators, in a meeting hosted by the U.S. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation."


On the face of it it doesn't seem like such a big deal but how many times have we heard of "exercises" and "simulations" being scheduled and run the very same day as an actual false flag event happens??

Many times!!

Pre-Planned 911 Exercises,_2001

Pre-Planned Boston Bombing Bomb Drill

Pre-Planned London Tube Drill

...and there are many more. Turns out that planning drills during life altering events is more the rule than the exception!

So be AWAKE and AWARE next week as I don't think this meeting between the Wizards Pulling the Levers is just a simulation...


May the Road you choose be the Right Road.

Bix Weir

More info at

Oct 11, 2014 - 1:21pm
Oct 11, 2014 - 1:32pm

Some points about gold holdings as % of GDP

The crucial issue is what definition of GDP we wish to use, to determine the appropriate holdings of gold that China is aiming for. Should it be nominal GDP which the USG has tweaked to include intangibles and increased nominal GDP by 3% ($500B)?

Or should it be based on purchasing power, which in that case makes China a bigger economy than USA.

Since Turdville believes that holding precious metals is to preserve purchasing power, then we have to accept that China will want to amass a gold holding that is as big, if not bigger than USA's by the time of the reset (or SDR re-coomposition)! This would also be true to how the Chinese operate.

p/s. We have not even factored in that the US GDP is mostly consumption and services/intangibles, which can collapse by many % in a great depression #2. China's brick and mortar GDP will still be standing, and be exporting to nations that can pay in real money, not devalued USD.

Oct 11, 2014 - 1:51pm

Turkey's hybrid gold accounts

A different point of view about the goodness of this monetization of gold, where the depositor receives interest in gold grams for his/her gold deposits.

With above, doesn't the gold depositor then become an un-secured creditor to the bank, and is thus exposed to 'bail-in'?

And isn't this an attempt by the banking circles to bring in physical gold from the lay people?

Clearly, for the bank to be able to pay interest on such gold accounts (and to buy gold to pay in gold grams), clearly means the back end has to run on some form of pool allocated basis. Won't the costs of setting this up outweigh any increased profits from freeing up fiat for normal lending?

Oct 11, 2014 - 2:51pm

SGE confirms Koos - 2,200 tons

Thanks for this link TF

Well good for Koos and I wonder how WGC will react. I looked at the list of attendees at the LBMA conference where this was announced and the usual suspects from the bullion bank crowd were there not many western news interests were there that I know of but Bloomberg was represented so it will be interesting to see if they report it.

Maybe now the mining community will begin to understand how they have been had by the WGC that is supposed to be looking out for them.

Remember the A2A with Brent Cook Sept. 4th when discussion about the miners mindset of markets and Central bank interventions was brought up in the discussion he said they aren't focused on that. It is time for them to react to the real demand issue here because with the new confirmed numbers out of China and just add in the additional demand to the WGC numbers brings up the question where does the balance comes from?

If you own gold miners it's time to send them an email on this and demand they look out for your interests, demand fair markets and withdraw their support of the WGC or will they continue to support the lies and deceit WCG and the media spouts that directly effects the sentiment for their product and ultimately the stock value.

Dr. P. Metals
Oct 11, 2014 - 2:57pm


RE: koos, "China's annual non-government gold consumption"

note bolded part...?

Oct 11, 2014 - 3:09pm

not to hijack the thread

and maybe already brought up, but harvey's site has apparently been shut down by court order.

see jesse's american cafe site for more info.

edit: ok already brought upon yesterday's thread. . this does suck though.

Dr. P. Metals
Oct 11, 2014 - 3:29pm


PBOC does not take delivery through the SGE so anything they acquire is separate from the official SGE numbers.

Dr. P. Metals TF
Oct 11, 2014 - 3:35pm

Well that makes it even larger

in total, for "china" then...did Koos have any estimate on PBOC gold holdings? That's what matters, not (I don't think) what it's citizens have.

Oct 11, 2014 - 4:16pm

Yep even larger

but nobody knows how much for sure. Koos did estimate it to be around 4,000 to 5,000 tons.

Dagney Taggart
Oct 11, 2014 - 5:05pm

Thanks Turd

I'll listen tonight. In the meantime, in Seattle for the weekend enjoying a nice Fall day.

Oct 11, 2014 - 6:05pm

Another whistleblower speaks out

”I have been a journalist for about 25 years and I was educated to lie, to betray and not to tell the truth to the public”

Respected journalist, author and former newspaper editor Dr Udo Ulfkotte has gone public about corruption in the media. He is very fearful of war in Europe and feels that if something doesn't change in both the media and politics then war in Europe is inevitable.

Credit to Luke Rudkowski of where I found this linked-to.

Oct 11, 2014 - 6:19pm

$9 Silver?

I decided to stay around to listen to Koos...

What I got from it was this - China has all the silver it needs, so 300M oz of Ag (in trade for most favored nation trading status) has been a lie all these years. Maybe we're better off without Harvey.

Or did I miss something?

Oct 11, 2014 - 7:17pm
Dr. P. Metals
Oct 11, 2014 - 7:31pm


How about their silver? :)

cliff 567 @KoosJansen
Oct 11, 2014 - 8:11pm
Oct 11, 2014 - 9:48pm


So why is the VAT tax so high (17%) on the SGE? What is China hoping to accomplish by having the VAT tax so high?

EDIT: OK, this was actually answered by Koos at the 44 minute mark. It's to keep the silver in China, and to have it available for their local Chinese customers.

4 oz
Oct 12, 2014 - 8:31am

This was terrific (52min)~~~

Bull Riders - Andy Hoffman, Claudio Grass, The Doc and Turd Ferguson
Oct 12, 2014 - 8:57am

One Month of Free TFMR Vault if you don't have wings

Don't ever say ag1969 never did anything for you. I am going to take a minute this morning to show you all how to get the $10 to pay for a month of vault membership. The only caveat is that you absolutely must not have grown wings in the last 12 years.

Red Bull Owes You Money if You Drank It In The Past 12 Years – How You Can Claim Yours

Red Bull has settled a lawsuit over the fact that it apparently does not, in fact, give you wings! They now owe you either cash or worth of Red Bull Products if you purchased their product between Jan. 1, 2002, and Oct. 3, 2014.

One of the plaintiffs claimed that the company’s advertised benefits, like increased performance and reaction speed, were false advertising, and not backed up with scientific evidence. Another plaintiff said despite drinking the product since 2002, he saw no improvement in his athletic performance. Red Bull’s excessive and inaccurate claims of effectiveness in terms of actually giving people energy, wound up costing them 13 million dollars. To claim your refund from Red Bull,

register online here

by March 2, 2015.

The other aspect of the settlement is that Red Bull gets to publicly state that they did nothing wrong, even though they’re paying money to people for “doing something wrong.”

*NOTE* If you are already a vault subscriber then you are Entitled to apply your windfall toward 1/2 oz of silver or 50% off a shiny turd round:


Fiat Coupons from da man. LMAO

Oct 12, 2014 - 9:20am


Well wouldn't you know, its spreads even though the worker was properly covered with masks etc.

surprise surprise - oh really, they should have know by looking at all the African based medical people that have become sick and died.

No need to worry, let's just keep bringing back tto the US, Spain, Germany or wherever.

Nearly looks like an intentional spreading.

Should help the market crash further on Monday. No worries they have staff training for crashes just in case

Oct 12, 2014 - 10:40am

On Gold Demand in China and Russia...

There was an article in Forbes, with a great headline --

Bernanke Tells Congress: I Don't Really Understand Gold

"While Ron Paul is no longer part of the Congressional committees that grill Ben Bernanke twice a year, the Fed Chairman was forced to answer questions about gold on Thursday again. Asked about the falling price of gold, which is down nearly 25% this year, Bernanke admitted he doesn’t understand the yellow metal. “No one really understands gold prices,” Bernanke told the Senate Banking Committee, adding he doesn’t get it either.

Bernanke had more things to say about the yellow metal. Calling it “an unusual asset,” the Fed Chairman noted people hold gold both as “disaster insurance” and as an inflation hedge. He expressed surprise about the latter, noting “movements in gold” don’t predict inflation well. Bernanke took solace in the marked decline in gold prices, though, suggesting they could reflect diminishing concerns over really bad outcomes."


Now, let's see what CIA thinks about gold and gold production, because -- obviously, "an unusual asset" is not a valid definition for gold.

Estimating Soviet Gold Production


2 JULY 96

The USSR has long maintained a veil of strict, unbroken secrecy on domestic production of gold. The State Secrets Decree of 1947, amended in 1958, forbids disclosure of data on the quantity of gold produced, plan goals, production capacity of plants, and the size of gold deposits. To help ensure a reticent attitude among knowledgeable Soviet officials, the State Secrets Decree carries harsh criminal sanctions for violation of its provisions.

Since the early 1950s, intelligence analysts in the Office of Economic Research (OER) and its predecessor, the Office of Research and Reports, have tried to unravel the mystery of Soviet gold production. By effective use of all-source intelligence — and with expert assistance of other components of the intelligence community, non-USIB agencies, and sources in the business community — OER was able to penetrate much of the official blackout on gold production in the USSR and to develop estimates that are accepted as the official position of the United States government and by the intelligence services of allied nations as well.

Intelligence methods used to estimate gold production in the USSR are highlighted by a new methodology developed to estimate the capacity of the Muruntau Gold Plant, the largest gold plant in the world.*

WOW !!! What an "unusual asset", right? Secrets, espionage, collecting all available data, studying satelite photographs, utilizing all available resources, and all that for what, gold? LOL They didn't tell Bernanke. Let's see the end of this secret report --

"Muruntau's production (one mine/plant in the USSR) in 1974 surpassed total U.S. output of 35 tons and was not far behind that of Canada (52 tons). Muruntau's production in 1975 probably was six times that of the largest gold plant in the United States and surpassed the record level of 88 tons achieved by the largest South African plant at West Driefontein in 1971. When Muruntau is complete and fully operational in 1977, its annual output will account for about 40 to 45 percent of total Soviet gold production.

During 1975-77, Muruntau will produce an estimated 315 tons of gold, which at free market prices of $170 per ounce could bring in about $1.7 billion in hard currency to help the Soviet government pay for imported grain and badly needed Western equipment and technology. Without meaning to, OER seems inadvertently to have given some credibility to an old Uzbek proverb, "In the Kyzyl-Kum desert, it is harder not to find gold than to find it."


So here you have it, and somebody should tell Bernanke. The price of gold and oil was ALWAYS managed, then, exactly for these reasons. Putin started the National gold program in 2003, if I remember correctly. He stated, along with the China's Prime minister: "We have learned our lesson in the past."

I would not bet on any data and statistics published, export/import numbers, because -- if gold is a strategic hard currency, it can be transported, bought, sold -- using different channels, like the cash used in Iraq, transported by our military cargo planes, and we have no idea from where to whom, no accounting trail, and it is gone now. Top Secret. I think that Russia's CB has 1,100 tons as they report. It is a book entry. It doesn't mean that this is only gold the Russian state controls. Frankly, they can come tomorrow and declare 4,000 tons, and they might say -- show me yours, we will show you ours, including all the paperwork. Otherwise, you just have to live with the number we report.

We live in strange times again.

turnoffthewater tyberious
Oct 12, 2014 - 10:45am

Re: Ty Many people have sent me the

I read an article, can't remember and didn't retain the link a week or so ago, where there was talk of debt forgiveness concerning the outstanding derivatives amongst the banking cartel. Isn't it amazing that countries (governments) can just decide that THEY are immune, change the laws and presto changeo to protect themselves. How will I forgive my children. What a ripoff!! How many stupid people are out there?

Oct 12, 2014 - 11:53am
Oct 12, 2014 - 2:08pm

Latest update from Harvey Organ, Sunday 10-12-14

You need to decide, did Harvey hit a nerve?

They have refused so far to attach the “court order”. I have asked 4 times for the copy and each time it goes unanswered.

The Greg Hunter interview probably is one of the causes of the takedown.

There are probably 3 areas that concern the establishment with respect to what I have been stating over the past several months;

i) the use of “kilobars” in a comex gold inventory which should be 100 oz bars and obviously that there something amiss here.

However it did bring this up with CFTC officials and instead of answering me, they stated that the information is confidential!!

confidential to the CFTC>????
Basically stated in other words: the comex gold inventory is phony!!

The use of xxx.000 oz in silver (and in gold ) which should not happen in the real world of physical deposits/withdrawals.

ii) the high OI in silver against its low price:

This bothers the CFTC because it is against their manfra of price discovery.
However it gets worse if they are aware that the longs in silver are in reality Sovereign Mainland China who are ready to pounce on the silver that is owed to them. This would be totally illegal on the Comex. It would spell collusion with the CFTC officials as they would be aware of the crime yet remain silent.

iii) the manipulation of the GOFO rates trying to keep them from entering official gold/silver backwardation.
As you are aware, Shanghai is in complete backwardation in silver yet the comex is slightly in contango.
Why the difference? Bankers manipulating rates again..Heavens it cannot be so….

there may be others.

pass on to Jim Sinclair.

all the best.

p.s. I need help legally on this.


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