A2A with Bill Murphy of GATA


As most know, Access2Access is a weekly feature in The Vault where subscribers get to ask questions directly of some of the biggest names in metals. This week's guest was Bill Murphy of GATA and, since I'm sure that GATA would like to post this recording to their site, too, I thought I should make an exception and create this public thread.

During today's webinar, members got to ask Bill all sorts of questions. They included:

  • How will the manipulation end and do you have a timetable for it to end?
  • Whatever happened to the "whistleblower" information you mentioned last summer?
  • Could China be suppressing price in order to acquire cheaper physical?
  • Just who and which organizations are behind the manipulation?

I think you'll find this recording to be quite interesting and I encourage you to follow Bill through the GATA site (https://www.gata.org) as well as his subscription service (https://www.lemetropolecafe.com).

Along with the daily podcast summaries, A2A webinars are additional value-added features available to Vault members. Please consider joining in on the fun. Click here for more information: https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/subscribe



Gold Five
Nov 7, 2013 - 3:05pm

Not gonna say it...

Not gonna say it...

Nov 7, 2013 - 3:06pm


damn so close

Nov 7, 2013 - 3:07pm



Nov 7, 2013 - 3:10pm

Another cry from China about

Another cry from China about gold market manipulation Submitted by cpowell on Thu, 2013-11-07 03:27. Section: Daily Dispatches 10:30p ET Wednesday, November 6, 2013 Dear Friend of GATA and Gold: The Perth Mint's Bron Suckecki today publishes observations from someone in China who has begun to get an idea of gold market manipulation and reports that it is discouraging Chinese gold investors. But Suckecki suggests that the Chinese should just get over it because the world economy has been financialized as interest-free money fuels leveraged speculation in all markets. "The weight of this money in the gold market," Suckecki writes, "overwhelms the non-leveraged money from the 'good-natured and hard-working' just looking for safety. So even if you got rid of fractional reserve banking, futures markets, and manipulative trading tatics (which would help), you would still have this volatility as large investors could still borrow money at little cost and leverage up the little bit of their own money to buy a lot more gold. The consequence of that leverage is that it takes only a small change in price to threaten to wipe their capital out, resulting in quick and rushed liquidations back out." Suckecki doesn't touch on whether and how central banks assist gold market manipulation directly through surreptitious allocation of their metal and their own purchase and sale of gold-related derivatives, as through the Bank for International Settlements: https://www.gata.org/node/13185 But China's government itself is on to that: https://www.gata.org/node/10380 https://www.gata.org/node/10416 https://www.gata.org/node/12917 Suckecki's commentary is headlined "Confusion in Beijing's Gold Shops on Price Manipulation" and it's posted at his blog, GoldChat, here: https://goldchat.blogspot.com/2013/11/confusion-in-beijings-gold-shops-on... CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

Nov 7, 2013 - 3:12pm

Excellent Bill Murphy interview!

Thanks to Mr. Bill Murphy for his time and to TF for having built this awesome environment and for doing all the work of scheduling, conducting, editing, and publishing our weekly A2A interviews.

Mr. Murphy impressed me as being the real deal. No aligning answers with talking points, no hidden agenda.

Mr. Murphy, who apparently has the patience of Job, has been forensically tracking this beast for 15(?) years and still sounds amazed at the scope of the fraud.

Very insightful to get to hear his candid expert answers to our ‘all over the map’ questions.

Thanks again gentlemen!

Nov 7, 2013 - 3:50pm

It is

incredible that one can stay optimistic in the face of such power and manipulation. Thanks for the inspiration Bill!

Nov 7, 2013 - 3:53pm

How The Progressives’ 100 Year Debasement of America and The Dol

Lowell Ponte – The Great Withdrawal: How The Progressives’ 100 Year Debasement of America and The Dollar Ends Lowell Ponte is co-author with Craig R. Smith of The Great Withdrawal: How the Progressives’ 100-Year Debasement of America and the Dollar Ends (October 2013). Lowell is a libertarian and understands exactly what is going with fiat currency and the eventual collapse of the dollar. Collectivism is dying and that means that authoritarianism isn’t far behind. The Federal Reserve and the Income Tax will be celebrating their 100 year anniversaries and freedom has been dying every since. Click Here to Listen to the Audio https://financialsurvivalnetwork.com/2013/11/lowell-ponte-the-great-with...

Nov 7, 2013 - 3:58pm

Professor Kotlikoff:

Professor Kotlikoff: Government Conspiracy to Hide True Debt Burden "Professor Kotlikoff: The liabilities the government owes are mostly off the books. We have a true debt picture which is about $205 trillion. This is recording all the future obligations the government has, whether they are official obligations or not, such as paying for your social security benefits, mine, or your mother’s Medicare benefits, defense spending, etc. All of these things are really obligations that aren’t recorded on the books as debt, whereas paying off future principal and interest payments on Treasury bills and bonds are recorded. So, anyway, if you take the value of all of those commitments and subtract all the taxes coming to pay those commitments, the difference is what’s called the fiscal gap; and that fiscal gap in the U.S. is now $205 trillion. So, the true debt is $205 trillion; the official debt is only $17 trillion. So, most of the problems we’re facing, most of the debt we have, the vast majority of it is off the books and Congress has done bookkeeping to make sure the public doesn’t see it. So, when we have these big fights over the debt ceiling, it’s really laughable because at the same time we may not be expanding our official debt at a very rapid rate, we are expanding our unofficial debt or off-the-book debt, unrecorded debt, at a very high rate." https://www.financialsense.com/contributors/laurence-kotlikoff/governmen...

Nov 7, 2013 - 4:26pm

Manipulation has ceased to concern me

The Chinese are effectively draining the West's gold reserves to rock-bottom, leaving the bullion banks facing an impossible pile of claims to unobtainable gold. When the banks are no longer able to meet China's delivery requirements, tipping them into default with a crowd of powerful claimants at their doors, will prove highly entertaining. Coming very soon to a theatre near you.

Nov 7, 2013 - 5:02pm
transplanted baby
Nov 7, 2013 - 5:02pm

taking the last spot in the top ten

just 'cause I saw the chance

Nov 7, 2013 - 5:11pm


has been doing it all wrong. They need to tell the world that Bill played professional football for the Boston Patriots. They will get much more acceptance and coverage that way.

One more thing regarding timing.

Knowing no one can predict when "it's going to happen". Bill says that everyone has been wrong including himself. No one can predict when we will get true price discovery in the short term. He stated that he thought last year it would happen this fall.

My question to the group is- How much time has to pass before a short term time period becomes long term time period?

Nov 7, 2013 - 5:36pm


IMHO we're in a long term period right now.

Nov 7, 2013 - 5:50pm

Thanks Turd!

You are a most considerate host. We appreciate the freebie!


Nov 7, 2013 - 6:39pm


Have you guys seen this? Reversal of Dodd-Frank passed the House:


Now, the House has passed a bill (H.R. 992) that would roll back these derivative regulations and let banks go back to the same set of rules that let them break the economy in the first place. So, why is it that both parties have found a way to agree on a substantive regulatory change at a time when partisan bickering is supposedly making any progress impossible?

It’s certainly not because the public is up in arms about rolling back derivative regulations — most Americans have never heard of derivatives trading, let alone pressured their Member of Congress to deregulate it. No, this is happening for a very different reason: Big bank lobbyists wrote this bill.

That’s not a cute turn of phrase or an exaggeration — The New York Times reports that 70 of the 85 lines in the new House bill reflect recommendations made in a piece of model legislation drafted by lobbyists for Citigroup, another bank that played a major role in the 2008 crisis and also received billions of federal stimulus dollars. The same report also revealed “two crucial paragraphs, prepared by Citigroup in conjunction with other Wall Street banks, were copied nearly word for word.” You can even view the original documentsand see how Citigroup’s lobbyists redrafted the House Bill, striking out ideas they didn’t like and replacing them with ones they did. Citigroup is quite literally writing its own rules.

Nov 7, 2013 - 6:49pm

Excellent article

Thank you for posting it.

That's it! I've figured it out!! Thunderlips resigned the CFTC so that he can run for Congress!!! It makes perfect sense!!!!

Dyna mo hum
Nov 7, 2013 - 6:56pm
Nov 7, 2013 - 7:25pm

Thanks Turd

This podcast was just the thing to season my red beans and rice.

murphy Mudsharkbytes
Nov 7, 2013 - 7:44pm


Hopefully we can stay solvent longer then the prices can be irrational.

Nov 7, 2013 - 7:56pm


Hopefully we can stay irrationally long till they are insolvent.


Nov 7, 2013 - 8:03pm

Well thank you for making

Well thank you for making this public, the Turd.

Nov 7, 2013 - 8:21pm

Some of you cats need to

Some of you cats need to check out the newsticker thread in the frivolity forum more often. The citigroup thing was posted there some time ago. In fact over a week ago.


Mr. Fix
Nov 7, 2013 - 9:51pm

Which America Do You Live In?

Which America Do You Live In? – 21 Hard To Believe Facts About 'Wealthy America' And 'Poor America'

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/07/2013 - 21:24

Did you know that 40 percent of all American workers make less than ,000 a year before taxes? And 65 percent of all American workers make less than ,000 a year before taxes. If you work on Wall Street, or have a cushy job with the federal government, or work for a big tech firm out on the west coast, life is probably pretty good for you right now. But the truth is that most Americans are not living the high life. In fact, most Americans are just trying to figure out how to survive from month to month. If we truly did have a free market capitalist system, the entire country would be a land of opportunity and things would be getting better for everybody. Unfortunately, that is not the case at all. The following are 21 facts about "wealthy America" and "poor America" that are hard to believe...

Nov 7, 2013 - 10:47pm

Harvey's Up! (TFMR)

  • Harvey: Today's GOFO numbers are now all in the positive. Today there was a decrease in negativity (GOFO was more positive). GLD: Gold was unchanged at 868.42. SLV: Silver unchanged at 10,497.75.
  • GoldCore: The American Silver Eagle bullion coins will experience roughly one month of unavailability between the final allocation of 2013-dated coins and the release of the first 2014-dated coins.
  • Simon Black: Just like Guy Fawkes Gunpowder Treason and Cromwell's rebellion were inevitable given the circumstances of the time, the unsustainable system we labor under at the present time, is it any less likely that our system will inevitably collapse under its own weight?
  • Bloomberg: Gold shipments to China from Hong Kong fell for a second month after the premium to take immediate delivery declined, indicating waning physical demand in the nation poised to become the largest consumer. Koos Jansen: Slowing demand?? My interpretation of the trade numbers is somewhat different; of what is published by the Hong Kong Census and Statistics Department we know demand from greater China is still unprecedented, and if we connect these numbers to Shanghai Gold Exchange physical deliveries, it proves to be even stronger.
  • Blu Putnam: Absent a sustained period of accelerating economic growth, demand for gold from India and China is likely to remain much more subdued than it was in the previous decade, when they helped drive the bull market for gold. DS: India and China may be decelerating economically, but they are both feeling the effects of inflation, and Indians particularly are keen to protect their wealth and to buy gold as a matter of principle.
  • Chris Powell: The first rule at Reuters and other mainstream financial news organizations, from the Financial Times to The Wall Street Journal to Fox News, is: Never put a critical question about central banking to central banks themselves. Never ask the people who are directly responsible and really know. Always ask someone else, someone who doesn't know. So not asking them about it and not reporting at least their refusals to answer, reporting instead empty speculation from "analysts" about what central banks might do, is no better than disinformation.
  • Keith Barron: I saw some interesting numbers that came out of Turkey which showed there is still incredible gold demand. The ECB also just lowered interest rates today and they were citing the fight against deflation as being the reason for the rate cut. Meanwhile, the propaganda machine that is the Fed continues to float rumors through the mainstream media that they are going to taper at some point. The reality is that the US economy is simply too fragile for any tapering. DS: They will taper when they are ready to crash the world economy.
  • DS: Ron Rosen has a very interesting chart of the price of gold and silver versus German marks during Weimar. At the beginning of the inflation, one ounce of gold was about 12 times the cost of an ounce of silver. At the end of Weimar, an ounce of gold was about 110 times the cost of an ounce of silver.
  • Keith Barron: The world still has to witness a ‘cleansing’ of all of these excesses that are still in the system. They must be purged at some point. There is no way around it.
  • Marc Farber: it would seem to me that Karl Marx might prove to have been right in his contention that crises become more and more destructive as the capitalistic system matures (and as the “financial economy” referred to earlier grows like a cancer) and that the ultimate breakdown will occur in a final crisis that will be so disastrous as to set fire to the framework of our capitalistic society. DS: We don't have a capitalistic society. We have a post-capitalistic society run by communists intent of destroying what is left.
  • Avalon: Recently released jobs loss data from Challenger, Gray & Christmas highlights the growing decline in employment and signals an impending economic and social Armageddon. The number of jobs lost since 2001 totals 12,551,440. The level of unemployment is approaching 24% according to many in the independent media using unaltered government figures.

All this and more on...

The Harvey Report!



Nov 7, 2013 - 10:56pm

How China Can Cause The Death Of The Dollar And The Entire U.S.


The death of the dollar is coming, and it will probably be China that pulls the trigger. What you are about to read is understood by only a very small fraction of all Americans. Right now, the U.S. dollar is the de facto reserve currency of the planet. Most global trade is conducted in U.S. dollars, and almost all oil is sold for U.S. dollars. More than 60 percent of all global foreign exchange reserves are held in U.S. dollars, and far more U.S. dollars are actually used outside of the United States than inside of it. As will be described below, this has given the United States some tremendous economic advantages, and most Americans have no idea how much their current standard of living depends on the dollar remaining the reserve currency of the world. Unfortunately, thanks to reckless money printing by the Federal Reserve and the reckless accumulation of debt by the federal government, the status of the dollar as the reserve currency of the world is now in great jeopardy.

As I mentioned above, nations all over the globe use U.S. dollars to trade with one another. This has created tremendous demand for U.S. dollars and has kept the value of the dollar up. It also means that Americans can export things that they need much more inexpensively than they otherwise would be able to.

The largest exporting nations such as Saudi Arabia (oil) and China (cheap plastic trinkets at Wal-Mart) end up with massive piles of U.S. dollars...

Nov 7, 2013 - 11:41pm

Thanks Turd for making this public.

Bill and GATA were the first things I found to understand what was going on in the gold world when searching in the late 90's. He's been trying to get the word out for a long time.

Spartacus Rex
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:42pm

How America Was Lost — Paul Craig Roberts

How America Was Lost

Paul Craig Roberts

“No legal issue arises when the United States responds to a challenge to its power, position, and prestige.” Dean Acheson , 1962, speaking to the American Society of International Law.

Dean Acheson declared 51 years ago that power, position, and prestige are the ingredients of national security and that national security trumps law. In the United States democracy takes a back seat to “national security,” a prerogative of the executive branch of government.

National security is where the executive branch hides its crimes against law, both domestic and international, its crimes against the Constitution, its crimes against innocent citizens both at home and abroad, and its secret agendas that it knows that the American public would never support.

“National security” is the cloak that the executive branch uses to make certain that the US government is unaccountable.

Without accountable government there is no civil liberty and no democracy except for the sham voting that existed in the Soviet Union and now exists in the US.

There have been periods in US history, such as President Lincoln’s war to prevent secession, World War I, and World War II, when accountable government was impaired. These were short episodes of the Constitution’s violation, and the Constitution was reinstated in the aftermath of the wars. However, since the Clinton regime, the accountability of government has been declining for more than two decades, longer than the three wars combined.

In law there is the concept of adverse possession, popularly known as “squatters’ rights.” A non-owner who succeeds in occupying a piece of property or some one else’s right for a certain time without being evicted enjoys the ownership title conveyed to him. The reasoning is that by not defending his rights, the owner showed his disinterest and in effect gave his rights away.

Americans have not defended their rights conveyed by the US Constitution for the duration of the terms of three presidents. The Clinton regime was not held accountable for its illegal attack on Serbia. The Bush regime was not held accountable for its illegal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. The Obama regime was not held accountable for its renewed attack on Afghanistan and its illegal attacks on Libya, Pakistan, and Yemen, and by its proxies on Syria.

We also have other strictly illegal and unconstitutional acts of government for which the government has not been held accountable. The Bush regimes’ acts of torture, indefinite detention, and warrantless spying, and the Obama regime’s acts of indefinite detention, warrantless spying, and murder of US citizens without due process. As the Obama regime lies through its teeth, we have no way of knowing whether torture is still practiced.

If these numerous criminal acts of the US government spread over the terms of three presidents pass into history as unchallenged events, the US government will have acquired squatters’ rights in lawlessness. The US Constitution will be, as President George W. Bush is reported to have declared, “a scrap of paper.”

Lawlessness is the hallmark of tyranny enforced by the police state. In a police state law is not a protector of rights but a weapon in the hands of government. [see Roberts & Stratton, The Tyranny of Good Intentions] The accused has no recourse to the accusation, which does not require evidence presented to a court. The accused is guilty by accusation alone and can be shot in the back of the head, as under Stalin, or blown up by a drone missile, as under Obama.

As a person aware of the long struggle against the tyrannical state, I have been amazed and disheartened by the acceptance not only by the insouciant American public, but also by law schools, bar associations, media, Congress and the Supreme Court of the executive branch’s claim to be above both law and the US Constitution.

As Lawrence Stratton and I show in our book about how the law was lost, liberals and conservatives chasing after their favorite devils, such as child abusers and drug pushers, and prosecutors, judges, and police devoted to conviction and not to justice, have gradually eroded over time the concept of law as a protection of the innocent, With the atmosphere of threat created by 9/11, the final destruction of the protective features of law was quickly achieved in the name of making us safe from terrorists.

The fact that we are no longer safe from our own government did not register.

This is how liberty was lost, and America with it.

Can liberty be regained? Probably not, but there is a chance if Americans have the necessary strength of character. The chance comes from the now known fact that the neoconservative Bush/Cheney regime took America and its puppet states to war in Afghanistan and Iraq entirely on the basis of lies. As all evidence proves, these wars were not the results of mistaken intelligence. They were the products of intentional lies.

The weapons inspectors told the Bush regime that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Despite this known fact, the Bush regime sent Secretary of State Colin Powell to the UN with fabricated evidence to convince the world that Saddam Hussein had “weapons of mass destruction” and was a threat to the world. Even if such weapons had existed in Iraq, many countries have them, including the US and Israel, and the presence of weapons does not under the Nuremberg Laws justify unprovoked aggression against the possessor. Under the Nuremberg Laws, unprovoked military aggression is a war crime, not the possession of weapons that many countries have. The war crime was committed by the US and its “coalition of the willing,” not by Saddam Hussein.

As for the invasion of Afghanistan, we know from the last video of Osama bin Laden in October 2001, attested by experts to be the last appearance of a man dying of renal failure and other diseases, that he declared that he had no responsibility for 9/11 and that Americans should look to their own government. We know as a reported fact that the Afghan Taliban offered to turn over Osama bin Laden to Washington if the Bush regime would provide the evidence that indicated bin Laden was responsible. The Bush regime refused to hand over the (non-existent) evidence and, with support of the corrupt and cowardly Congress and the presstitute media, attacked Afghanistan without any legal justification. Remember, the FBI has stated publicly that it has no evidence that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 and that that is why the crimes for which the FBI wanted bin Laden did not include responsibility for the 9/11 attack.

The war propaganda campaign was well prepared. Yellow ribbon decals were handed out for cars proclaiming “support the troops.” In other words, anyone who raises the obvious questions is not supporting the troops. Still today insouciant Americans sport these decals on their cars unaware that what they are supporting are the murder of foreign women, children and village elders, the death and physical and mental maiming of American soldiers, and the worldwide destruction of the reputation of the United States, with America’s main rival, China, now calling for a “de-Americanized world.”

A country with a population as insouciant as Americans is a country in which the government can do as it pleases.

Now that we have complete proof that the criminal Bush regime took our country to wars in Afghanistan and Iraq solely on the basis of intentional lies, how can the legal institutions, the courts, the American people possibly tolerate the Obama regime’s ignoring of the obvious crimes? How can America simply accept Obama’s statement that we mustn’t look back, only move ahead? If the US government, which has committed the worst crimes of our generation, cannot be held accountable and punished, how can federal, state, and local courts fill up American prisons with people who smoked pot and with people who did not sufficiently grovel before the police state.

Doubtless, the Obama regime, should it obey the law and prosecute the Bush regime’s crimes, would have to worry about being prosecuted for its own crimes, which are just as terrible. Nevertheless, I believe that the Obama regime could survive if it put all the blame on the Bush regime, prosecuted the Bush criminals, and desisted from the illegal actions that it currently supports. This would save the Constitution and US civil liberty, but it would require the White House to take the risk that by enforcing US law, US law might be enforced against its own illegal and unconstitutional acts by a succeeding regime.

The Bush/Cheney/John Yoo neoconservative regime having got rid of US law, no doubt the Obama regime thinks it is best to leave the situation as it is, rid of law.

Without accountability, America is finished. Not only will Americans live in a police state with no civil liberties, but the rest of the world is already looking at America with a jaundiced eye. The US is being reconstituted as an authoritarian state. All it takes is one failure of accountability for the police state to become entrenched, and we have had numerous failures of accountability. Does anyone really believe that some future government is going to make restitution to persecuted truth-tellers, such as Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, and Edward Snowdon, as was done for Japanese Americans?

Now that we know for a certain fact that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were based on propaganda and lies, Congress and the world media should demand to know what was the real secret agenda. What are the real reasons for which Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded?

No truthful explanation for these wars exists.

Paul O’Neill, the Bush regime’s first Treasury Secretary, is on public record stating that at the very first cabinet meeting, long prior to 9/11, the agenda was a US attack on Iraq.

In other words, the Bush regime’s attack on Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

What was the Bush regime’s secret agenda, kept secret by the Obama regime, that required an illegal, war criminal, attack on a sovereign country, an action for which officials of Hitler’s government were executed? What is the real purpose of Washington’s wars?

It is totally and completely obvious that the wars have nothing to do with protecting Americans from terrorism. If anything, the wars stir up and create terrorists. The wars create hatred of America that never previously existed. Despite this, America is free of terrorists attacks except for the ones orchestrated by the FBI. What the fabricated “terror threat” has done is to create a thorough-going domestic police state that is unaccountable.

Americans need to understand that they have lost their country. The rest of the world needs to recognize that Washington is not merely the most complete police state since Stalinism, but also a threat to the entire world. The hubris and arrogance of Washington, combined with Washington’s huge supply of weapons of mass destruction, make Washington the greatest threat that has ever existed to all life on the planet. Washington is the enemy of all humanity.


Spartacus Rex
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:45pm

Deflation Rebuttal & Reich Economics by Jim Willie

As introduction to this article on the bizarre nature of all things economic and financial within the Untied States, consider once again the Deflation Knuckleheads. Be sure to know that the Jackass considers Rick Ackerman to be one of the premier technical chart analysts in the world. He has taught me in the past from his T/A work, even as his hidden pivots are unique and enlightening. In 2011, we were at odds over the incessant errant ramblings about deflation and its great threat. In August of that year, the Jackass penned a public article in an attempt to clarify the inflation and deflation factors being simultaneous, not at all mutually exclusive or in some debated sequence. While respect is still high for Rick, he has misquoted me, not demonstrating the depth of knowledge concerning the incredibly difficult topic of inflation. The distortions run so deep on the topic, that even smart folks fail to comprehend. The syndicate desires such confusion. After trying to set the record straight two years ago, one more attempt is necessary. The respect for each other is mutual.

The motive here is to further shed light on the nasty gnarly tangled topic of inflation and how deflation is interwoven as the financial and economic domains are locked in the weave.

Click here to continue reading: https://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1383944400.php

Spartacus Rex
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:47pm
transplanted baby
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:53pm

and here's one more take on things

Does anyone know of alexiscom1? I found him while surfing on youtube. He is either Russian or ukrainian (or ?) and does some takes on Jim Willie's comments. I find his comments interesting. In a recent post entitled "why silver did not go up" (posted about one week ago) he talks about what he NOW thinks will happen w.r.t. gold and paper currencies.

I certainly don't know how this game is going to end, but if you have a little time and want one more opinion, check him out.

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