More signs of economic collapse

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#1 Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 9:18am
davefess
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More signs of economic collapse

From LRC

Violence is spreading, even in rural areas. I live in the country and we haven't seen any of this yet, however what we have seen is more rental homes than I can ever remember. 4 years ago you could barely find a place to rent, now the paper is flooded with foreclosures and rental properties.

https://lewrockwell.com/rep2/more-signs-society-collapsing.html

Edited by: davefess on Nov 8, 2014 - 5:07am
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 9:30am
Seacap81
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I always believed the

I always believed the economic collapse would be an event of one kind or another encompassing a few days or a couple of weeks. But it really appears that the collapse in happening in a methodical and slow-motion action. It's just a drip, drip, drip sort of thing. The hot spots of violence around the Country is just another indication that goes hand-in-hand with all the poor economic indicators. Maybe this is how it happens - slooooooowww moooootionnnn!

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 9:43am
davefess
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agreed

but then I think something is going to set it off...Greece default perhaps?

"it's game over man, game over!"
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 9:51am (Reply to #2)
Jasper Puddlemaker
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I think that is the goal

I think that is the goal ("slow motion"). If a collapse cannot be prevented, from a societal standpoint a managed collapse is preferable to utter chaos. But the point is often made that hyperinflation occurs suddenly, so if hyperinflation does occur that is when the panic and chaos would really unfold.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 10:13am (Reply to #4)
Pax Argentum
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When Money Dies

Jasper Puddlemaker wrote:

....; But the point is often made that hyperinflation occurs suddenly, so if hyperinflation does occur that is when the panic and chaos would really unfold.

Agree. We're seeing social unrest in the areas where 'economic collapse' has reached the breakfast table, whether Greece, Tunisia, Egypt or among the 45 million food stamp recipients here in the US. Once hyperinflation takes hold, civil disorder will increase proportionately. Highly recommend the book, "When Money Dies" by Adam Fergusson about the German Weimar Republic hyperinflationary event. Good detail on policy decisions and their effects on individuals and families. Reads like a guidebook for today. Pax
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 10:56am (Reply to #5)
Jasper Puddlemaker
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Weimar Germany is such a good

Weimar Germany is such a good example of what can happen (economically and socially). Except for our house, nobody in my family (or friends) even thinks about the ramifications of a hyperinflation (since it "wont happen here"). I don't see how people can be so ignorant. At the very least take some steps just in case. Nope. Year after year we have seen signs, and witnessed events, that prove the system is collapsing. Yet they will be taken by total surprise if/when hyperinflation hits the US. It is getting pretty hard to have any compassion on those that won't pull their heads out of the sand (or out of their asses).

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 11:01am
tmosley
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I'd rather see statistics

I'd rather see statistics than a few anecdotes. All the statistics I have seen have crime DOWN, not up. One would expect that to be the case until the food stamps run out.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 11:09am
davefess
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true but...

stats can be massaged. I saw it all the time in corporate world when one is trying to prove a point and data needed to be tweaked. Sometimes real life examples are more relevant.

"it's game over man, game over!"
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 11:22am (Reply to #2)
BASEBALL 13
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Collapse

The collapse has indeed started with a slow dripping...just like a dam break begins with dripping...then it bursts! That's what's going to happen because the politicians either won't admit the severity of the problems, or, they are just too stupid to recognize them.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 11:24am (Reply to #7)
Elijah Craig 18
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Crime Stats

tmosley wrote:

I'd rather see statistics than a few anecdotes. All the statistics I have seen have crime DOWN, not up.

Agree with you tmosley. Stats do show crime down, and everyone is quick with a good anecdote. But something feels different in the nature of crimes being committed today, crimes the U.S. has never had to deal with before.

tmoseley wrote:

 One would expect that to be the case until the food stamps run out.

Crime stats a lagging indicator? What is the welfare state but a covenant between the State and the Mob not to revolt. Rome did it with bread and games, we do it with government issued debit cards and American Idol. In the end, it didn't work for Rome...

What to do? Keep stacking.

Before Enlightenment - Chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment - Chop wood, carry water. ~ Zen Buddhist Proverb
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 11:29am (Reply to #8)
tmosley
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Subject field is required.

davefess wrote:

stats can be massaged. I saw it all the time in corporate world when one is trying to prove a point and data needed to be tweaked. Sometimes real life examples are more relevant.

Indeed they can, but in the US we don't have a pervasive culture of stat massaging (yet). Yes, a given entity might, but stats from 50 different states aren't ALL going to be lies.

I do agree with the poster that it seems like we are seeing new types of crimes. But that seems to be standard. Every generation always seems to think the world's morals are decaying.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 11:51am
davefess
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morality is relative is suppose

I agree crime may be down, but I do think that we are seeing signs of desperation. I can only speak to what I see and where I live I have seen more cops on the payroll than ever before. Maybe that is preventing some crime. However, the beginning of no jobs, lack of future, and just a general feeling of frustration is setting in. I could be wrong and may very well be, but it just doesn't feel right.

In regards to morality and every generation thinks the world's morals are decaying I couldn't agree with you more. Every generation does say that, but I think because its true. Look at our culture compared to 50s, 50s to early 20th century and so on. What one generation tolerates the next embraces. Does our pop culture mean that all Americans are immoral. Of course not, but many people do emulate the behavior of what they see on televisions, movies, etc. I think we have deviated from God too far and have put our faith in politicians, movie stars, musicians, and athletes.

I am often called a prude however so take that in consideration! Anyway your comments have given me time to pause and think a bit more, so I will end with maybe this is just a small sign of something bigger. Crime is down, but experiences such as these could be that there is a hint of an underlying issue.

"it's game over man, game over!"
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 12:40pm (Reply to #7)
Silver Monkey
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tmose - What % of crimes do

tmose -

What % of crimes do you think go unreported now? I am from a suburb of Detroit and know from going to sporting events in Detroit, it is a huge pain in the ass to get a police report downtown. Such as you are at the game and someone smashes the window of your parked car. You have to go to the Police Station and wait hours and hours for a police report.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 12:49pm (Reply to #12)
MrSteed
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I live in a suburb near San

I live in a suburb near San Francisco and work there. I'd have to say "signs of collapse" are pretty much a mixed bag in my reality. Really overt signs are nonexistent. Mostly it's what I get from news (and I don't watch any TV). It's hard to tell what to actually believe. What's real. What's spin. I figure the best course is to average all the information input you get, and that will best approximate the state of things.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 12:56pm
Sockeye
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With all the unemployment I

With all the unemployment I am surprised that things are so calm.

I am almost always wrong. But the fun in life is those few times when I am right.
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 1:13pm
No1Hunter
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Black Bus

davefess wrote:

From LRC

Violence is spreading, even in rural areas. I live in the country and we haven't seen any of this yet, however what we have seen is more rental homes than I can ever remember. 4 years ago you could barely find a place to rent, now the paper is flooded with foreclosures and rental properties.

https://lewrockwell.com/rep2/more-signs-society-collapsing.html

So, where did everyone go? Did a big black bus with tinted windows pull up and take a select group of people out the the desert? wink

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 1:23pm (Reply to #16)
davefess
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that was a good laugh!

I actually did laugh out loud! Where I live is a hub for summer homes for people living in Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, etc with money. We are blessed with many lakes and 26 are connected to form a large chain of freshwater lakes. However during the last couple years, I think those that overextended with homes up here are now renting them. We have about two full pages of public notices now every week in the paper. The problem with this area is that it is still attractive for those with money to have a vacation place, so real estate prices haven't really fallen, but jobs are tight and low paying. Avg job pays 8-10 n hr. Another trend I have noticed here is about 6 or 7 years ago, condominiums began sprouting all over the chain of lakes. Basically 2-3 bedroom apartments that were selling around $350,000-$400,000 a piece. Those have come down significantly since then, round 200 and still sitting vacant. Probably more than you wanted to know about northern Wisconsin, but observations from a small hick town in the middle of nowhere cool

"it's game over man, game over!"
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 1:52pm (Reply to #17)
Argent
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30,s Germany

What makes you laugh is creating inflation and then they think they can control it,you cannot.When it gets really bad,if you go out for something to eat you agree the price before the meal,you demand a 15 minute break after every hour of work to spend your wages while they are still worth something,I kid you not.When it totally broke down they moved onto cigarettes,chewing gum and chocolate. Some fun ahead.Bob :)

Destroying the Country to save the Banks.
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 1:58pm
davefess
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so true

I remember reading that workers in Weimar would get paid 2x a day so they could grocery shop before prices went up again. We started raising chickens here, accumulate ammo and silver, planted garden and we can hunt and fish. Storing water as well. As soon as I make enough i am having a hand pump put in well. Wish I could invest in wind/solar to power some of house, but still too expensive for me. Maybe after some good trades. Yeah we are in deep, deep doo doo.

"it's game over man, game over!"
Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 2:30pm
RobD
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I'm not sure if this is

I'm not sure if this is happening elsewhere but here in Reno/Washoe County Nevada the police won't even respond to a crime if it is not actually in progress. If someone breaks into your car they tell to go on the net and fill out a form. Why bother unless your insurance requires it. If no one reports the crime did it really happen? Well it certainly didn't get counted.

Thu, Jun 16, 2011 - 4:35pm
tmosley
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Yes, many crimes go

Yes, many crimes go unreported, but unless the police have suddenly changed, and have started covering up the crimes that ARE reported, or making it harder to report than it was before, then the real crime rate should still correlate with the reported crime rate.

Sure, Detroit and Chicago might make it so that its hard to report crimes, but do NY, LA, Houston, Dallas, Denver, etc all do that as well? Crime is falling fairly evenly across the country, so far as I can tell. There doesn't appear to be a non-reporting artifact in the data.

But I could be wrong.