Avoiding VAT on Silver (in Europe)

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#1 Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 6:55am
CNJ
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Avoiding VAT on Silver (in Europe)

Clearly many/most of us in Turdistan are invested directly or indirectly in silver. Not unreasonably 90% of all information and comments out there relate to a US citizen investing & holding in the US. Those of us outside the US have slightly different perspectives, opportunities and restrictions.

For example, UK-listed stocks seem to be completely off the radar of almost all silver stock scribblers. Very strange when you have the worlds largest pure silver play Fresnillo (FRES.L) as well as others like Hochschild.

Similarly, those interested in holding the metal have VAT to contend with. Doubtless there are some creative ways around this, so I thought I'd open this topic to capture what know-how and experience might be out there on this.

For my own small contribution I would mention that here in Italy you can buy 500 lire 90% silver coins from the 1960's at zero premium (and even a discount) with no VAT. This is effectively the equivalent us US junk silver coin.

What other ways of avoiding VAT are there?

Edited by: CNJ on Nov 8, 2014 - 5:10am
Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 7:04am
Ollywood
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Hi there, i'm UK based (20%

Hi there, i'm UK based (20% tax on silver)

www.goldmoney.com allows you to buy silver vat free as the metal is stored in off-shore vaults, you only pay vat if you decide to take delivery of the physical metal.

Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 7:05am
ianmac
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There is still the UK Import

There is still the UK Import VAT relief threshold, currently set at £18 - i.e. 'Commercial consignments of £18 or less are free from UK customs duty and import VAT', although from 1 November 2011 this £18 threshold will be reduced to £15.

Using a Channel Islands service such as https://www.silvercoinsbullion.co.uk/ - they will package their shipments individually, so 1/2 oz bullion is currently VAT free.

Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 7:21am
33 and a turd
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If you buy at

If you buy at www.coininvestdirect.com AND collect the phyzz in Frankfurt you pay German VAT (6%) regardless of where you live.

A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. John F. Kennedy
Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 7:41am (Reply to #4)
CreatingWealthAsap
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There are German shops where

There are German shops where you don't even have to collect the physical silver... at least when I ordered from Belgium they did sent the coins no questions asked..

Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 7:43pm
uktraveller2009
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VAT on silver

Hi, you can buy silver coins at 7% VAT online from Germany and deliver to EU countires (in my case, the UK) - it's 7% as long as they are a coin and not a "round", that is, have a face value - like a Phil, ASE, Maple etc. If you choose to buy rounds or ingots/bars the VAT on them is 19%.

PM me if you want websites, I recently bought 11 Ag Phils, delivery to UK, at the time it was EU€345, which was GBP£320 to me, and that included UPS delivery and the GBP£9 bank transfer charge - still saved myself GBP£50!

The company I used has a EU€300 minimum order, also does gold coins but I think they're slightly cheaper here in the UK.

Rick

Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 1:11pm
bulliondan
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bullionvault

Some great info thanks!

If you trade at www.bullionvault.com you can also buy and sell Silver bullion VAT free unless you plan on taking delivery.

If you do so I believe that their minimum delivery is a 1000 oz bar and that VAT would become applicable. However as long as you hold it in the vault and buy and sell within the bullionvault market there is no VAT to pay.

I find bullionvault to be very easy to use.

Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 6:51pm (Reply to #7)
uktraveller2009
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Re bullionvault.com

I don't doubt that bullionvault.con offers a good service, but I think our US cousins that "stack" PMs would argue that "You don't own it if you can't hold it" or is it "If you can't hold it "You don't own it" - either way the message is the same.

With the US deficit total, plus the Unfunded Federal Debt and the falling U$D, are we watching the fall of a great Empire in Slo-Mo?

8¬¦

Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 12:52pm
bulliondan
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I do understand what you

I do understand what you mean, however I just don't feel that the extra £10 an oz justifies me buying the coins when buying larger amounts. At the end of the Bull market the amount of oz's you are holding is what matters! I also would feel uncomfortable holding large amounts at home.

I will be building up some coins but only small amounts, I will hold over a 1000 oz in bullionvault so that I could take delivery if I needed to. It isn't like paper Silver, all purchases are covered by physical and you can check the inventory on a daily basis to double check. According to figures I saw by David Morgan they hold over 4 Million oz's!

Your bullion dealer in Germany sounds very interesting for coin purchases though - could you send me the details please.

P.S. - we are definitely watching the collapse of the dollar though not in slo-mo, it took over 200 years for the British Empire to collapse the Americans as always do things bigger, better and faster and will manage it in just over 70 years since the War!

There is a great book by David Skarica (The Great Super Cycle) which outlines what is happening very well.

Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 1:06pm
Sockeye
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Our collapse is all caused by

Our collapse is all caused by he Federal Reserve. Their 99 year agreement runs out in Dec 2012 so they are in high gear to show us their power to destroy us. Punishment for making the Banksters wait so long before throwing away our country to them.

There is no way to escape the compounding effect of interest rates. Why the Fed gov was so stupid to enter into an interest rate scheme shows the power of corruption of politicians. A few dollars to key politicians purchased this nightmare back in 1913. At the end the Banksters will be the winners. Everyone else is destined to lose. The entire world will be owned by the Banksters.

I am almost always wrong. But the fun in life is those few times when I am right.
Sun, Jun 19, 2011 - 6:24am (Reply to #10)
CreatingWealthAsap
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I never heard that the fed's

I never heard that the fed's had a 99 agreement that runs out in december 2012... where did you read/get this info?

Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 6:08am
Spud
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http://www.sarniasilver.com/

https://www.sarniasilver.com/

You can buy half ounces here for £17.99, anything under 18 is VAT free, and i've heard not matter how many you but they will all come under separate cover and count as individual orders too get round VAT plus you can use Paypal so no Bank Transfers.

AS far as BV goes, I use and have about 300k cash/bars ay anyone time. My original misson statement was too keep capital as a whole and withdraw profits to buy physical, this has worked well too date though not much made over last few months. I'm unsure as too whether I'd ever actually take delivery of BV bars I just can't seem to get my head round the timing i.e. could easily be too late if SHTF but on the other hand govt confiscation is a REAL worry.

Mon, Jul 18, 2011 - 9:23am (Reply to #12)
matthenue
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No need to fly to germany

If you steer away from bar's you can do the 7% germany trick without even having to go there. https://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/collection_in_germany.html If you hire the courier service to pick it up for you and delivery it, you avoid the British 20% tax and get german 7% instead. I used ups and it cost me £50 for courier, so if you spend more then £700 it's free money in your pocket. (13% saving)

Mon, Jul 18, 2011 - 4:56pm (Reply to #11)
uktraveller2009
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The Fed's 99 year agreement that runs out in Dec 2012...

Pres. Woodrow Wilson signed the 99 year charter in 1913, and reportedly regretted it afterwards. The next US Pres will be elected in Nov 2012, and sworn in Jan 2013, The Feds mandate expires between the two dates, while the ruling Pres. is a "lame duck".

Wed, Jul 20, 2011 - 4:12am
boil_in_the_bag_rice
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Norway's an option

There's no VAT due in Norway.

It's outside the EU but easy to access from Sweden, Germany, Denmark and the UK by land or sea, depending on where you are based.

I did a little research and the cheapest dealer I could find was https://www.realverdier.no

They are based in Bergen but delivery to Oslo etc for about €35.

As far as I know you can pay by Euro or Dollar also.

I ended up buying my coins in the US, but now stuck with the problem of getting them to the EU!

Wed, Jul 20, 2011 - 6:26am (Reply to #15)
matthenue
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Import tax

Anything that is from outside the EU including the no tax havens in Europe have to pay import duty tax ....(if you get caught) but be wary

Thu, Jul 21, 2011 - 3:21pm
stoneeh
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Woah.. tbh I haven't bothered

Woah.. tbh I haven't bothered yet, my 20% in Austria will be negligible in the big scheme of things. One thing I could do though is drive to Germany where they have only 7% VAT on silver coins. I don't believe that is legal though. Not that I care in principle, but I don't wanna suffer negative consequences.. better remain safe and undetected and pay 20% than pay a little less and have the green man all over my stash.

- Markus

Mon, Jul 25, 2011 - 6:54am (Reply to #17)
matthenue
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German 7% is legal

rang HMRC and they said so long as an EU country has payed vat you do not need to pay the 20% english VAT

:D

Sat, Aug 30, 2014 - 12:59pm
matthenue
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and.... it's gone!

So been a while since I was in the country and I always used this loophole to buy silver... but since this happened https://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-41503-tax-for-silver-from-7-to-19-in-germany-and-rest-of-europe.html

we can no longer get this deal... is there any new ways for our sorry UK silver collectors?

Sun, Aug 31, 2014 - 9:36am
Hammer
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This may or may not

"I found a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works." - Alan Greenspan, October 2008 WTF ! Now you tell us !!!
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