I realise that (almost) nobody cares about Kinesis here at TFMR and this post would be rather interesting and on-topic for patrons of Kinesis Telegram group chat. However, I'd rather publish it here, exclusively, at TFMR amongst us long suffering ones and probably get largely ignored. But that's OK, because loyalty counts and at least I won't be preaching to those, largely with set ideas about Kinesis!
Velocity (V) and Market Capitalization (MC) figures - I wholeheartedly support Kinesis publishing the hypothetical projections made in the Blueprint (P39), because it is a very good mathematical illustration of how the system can work. Using examples physical gold market penetration (MC) and modest stable coin, Tether Velocity, simply gives a very good example of the potential power of the system and is, not at all a specific forecast.
I’m not at all concerned whether these examples of Phyzz Au or Stable Coin market dynamics will be achieved or not. However, 0.1% of 180 Thousand Tonnes of above ground gold (WGC stat) is 180 Tonnes and 3% in 5 Years is 5400 Tonnes. To me – that’s quite plausible.
I think that a good point is made that quite a lot of this may be hoarded and not spent – I agree with this. Some of this will have low velocity. However, consider this…Analyst Steve St Angelo (of SRS Rocco) produces wonderful studies of how the gigantic Gold and Silver paper futures markets, that dwarf the physically traded metals, have an uncanny knack of discovering Au and Ag prices slightly above or below all-in sustaining costs (AISC) of production. Meaning, that most mining companies struggle to make a profit! With costs almost always very high and price volatility often determining a profit or loss. If metals prices are significantly higher than costs, miners will generally mitigate future price volatility risk, by selling a certain percent of production forward in the futures markets (thus feeding the beast that drives prices down). However, the miners invariably do not hedge all of their production and often there is no hedging. For un-hedged gold and silver, selling refined product into the Kinesis Monetary System, this will be very interesting in terms of both overall cost reduction for producers and, very high velocity caused by continual flow of metals into accounts and almost equal payments, moving directly out to cover AISC. This velocity of this could mimic a drunkard, gambler’s weekly welfare bank deposit velocity.
Getting back to Tether, I presume Tether’s existence relied on it having high liquidity and trust (that USD are somehow all there waiting if required). Liquidity to Crypto trading exchanges/ markets seemed to hold up (I guess infinite liquidity is possible for computerized tokens), however, the trust seems to be highly questionable. I think Tether will not be able to compete with Kinesis in terms of trust and Kinesis certainly can compete in terms of liquidity. I don’t know if Kinesis can generate velocity of around 200%, like Tether did a year or so ago, however 30% - definitely yes and the stable coin market cap was not accounted for in the projection.
Precious Metal markets also include $5 Trillion USD paper market for the $15 Billion physical silver market. Imagine a 0.1% infiltration into the paper Ag market by certain hedge/wealth funds. That’s about the same MC as physical gold. The Paper Gold markets are huge too and also unaccounted for. Companies like Samsung, in South Korea, are doing deals with Canadian Miners (in Mexico) for direct supply of Ag, because it’s a key component of all of their electronics and physical supply is so tight. Kinesis could easily become a key facilitator and metals liquidity provider for industrial giants around the world.
Then there are people like me. I’ll investigate the feasibility of having my moderately good income deposited into KCoins and generally, speaking, my costs (outgoings) almost invariably always seem to match my income. I’m quite sure this principle applies to Phillipina Maids in Dubai wanting to kindly send their money cross border back to their family or crazy rich Chinese Businessmen that don’t want to send money back to their families. Backpackers that don't want to set up Bank accounts in every country they work, while getting hit with exchange rate fees and taxes. The possibilities are endless for both market cap and velocity in multiple markets (Individual, Corporate and Financial). The projections made in the blueprint aren’t forecasts. They help make it easier for us people who are not Austrian Economists, who remain annoyed that the Fed doesn’t publish M3 Velocity figures anymore, to understand how this system can work.
Kinesis, the subject of the July 30 interview with Tom Coughlin and Andrew Maguire https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/podcast/9588/kinesis-ready-move , is launching today. It is a complete digital monetary system based 1:1 on fully allocated gold/silver transacting on a distributed ledger, which can be queried at https://explorer.kinesis.money/ . Account holders have full legal title to their metals through the ledger, while the 7 vaults are audited twice yearly.
The exceptional feature of Kinesis is that it turns two paradigms on their head. The first is that gold has no yield. Not only are there no storage fees but there is a yield for holding gold, paid from the 0.45% transaction cost charged to users of KAU and KAG coins.
The second is the defeat of Gresham’s Law which states “good money drives out bad”. This is achieved by providing a perpetual minter’s yield to accounts that mint in minimum quantities of 100 gm gold and 200 oz silver once their coins have been emitted into circulation, either by spending, sending to another wallet or offering for sale on the Kinesis exchange. The amount of this perpetual yield depends solely upon the velocity of the monetary system. Until October 9th coins minted in the initial minting offer period will receive a 3X adjustment factor compared to those minted after. Minting has already occurred for those who hold a KVT (a no cash value token used to launch the system). Whereas only accredited US investors can hold KVTs, minting itself is now open to all US citizens and residents.
Thanks for this summary, Steve. I too am a Kinesis user (KVT and minter of KAU and KAG) and have been watching the development of the system over these past many months.
I'm hopeful Kinesis can get some significant volumes of KAU and KAG minted over the next while. Both Tom and Jai have indicated in recent interviews that large volumes will be minted shortly.
Today's launch is only the start of the journey. There will be a number of hurdles and challenges, but the concept and product looks incredibly good.
I reposted my summary today in the main thread. I thought it was rather gauche to post such a summary in a thread on onegold. If we get traffic here I hope you will help to answer questions.
—
“Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
― Albert Camus
I agree that the OneGold thread was not the right spot to post about Kinesis. I probably should have waited for another post from Turd before posting, but got caught up in the excitment of the K Launch.
Anyway .. yes I'm quite optimistic about Kinesis and the possibilities it brings. Will keep an eye on this thread and offer assistance where I am able.
If you want to go ahead though please use my referral link (kms.kinesis.money/signup?referrer=KM13451318) instead of that on this website. https://superecosystem.com/
Post here or PM me with any questions.
—
“Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
― Albert Camus
They can be viewed on youtube by entering kinesis.money and checking out the "Learn and Earn" series.
Learn and earn is a series of short, fairly elementary, videos designed to educate the general population. It is also a referral competition running until 2/10/2020. Referrers receive a perpetual 7.5% share of the transaction revenue of their referees. They referees in turn can refer others and get the 7.5%, but the original referrers do not share in this, so it is not a pyramid scheme but an incentive to use the system. While the competition runs the top 500 who recruit the most users will get at least 1 KVT.
You can sign up using my link and then you will get your own referral link: my.kinesis.money/signup/?referrer=KM13451318
If you really want to look into the Kinesis Monetary System in more depth then go to the home page at kinesis.money. At the very bottom under Resources the Stakeholder materials will lead you to the White paper and Blueprint.
Any questions can be posted here.
—
“Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
― Albert Camus
I too am a KVT owner and have been mining to take advantage of the initial mining offer (IMO) period. Do you know anything about when fees will start being paid out? I think I read that in order to receive the IMO you have to send or spend or sell your holdings.
Good to hear you've been minting and taking advantage of the extended IMO (until December 20, I think). I don't know when the first fee distribution will occur, it hasn't been announced. Yes, to get the minter's yield you have to send or spend or sell your holdings, otherwise you get the holder's yield for the coins in your wallet.
The videos are a short and good explanation, you can find them here: https://kinesis.money/learn-earn/#the-videos. Videos 6-8 cover those yields pretty well, KVT yield covered in #11.
—
“Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my friend.”
― Albert Camus
Andrew Maguire
https://kingworldnews.com/andrew-maguire-broadcast-interview-available-n...
New ad
Forbes article
Maguire and Chilton
Kinesis Community Show -
A post that is in the spirit of "nobody cares"
I realise that (almost) nobody cares about Kinesis here at TFMR and this post would be rather interesting and on-topic for patrons of Kinesis Telegram group chat. However, I'd rather publish it here, exclusively, at TFMR amongst us long suffering ones and probably get largely ignored. But that's OK, because loyalty counts and at least I won't be preaching to those, largely with set ideas about Kinesis!
Velocity (V) and Market Capitalization (MC) figures - I wholeheartedly support Kinesis publishing the hypothetical projections made in the Blueprint (P39), because it is a very good mathematical illustration of how the system can work. Using examples physical gold market penetration (MC) and modest stable coin, Tether Velocity, simply gives a very good example of the potential power of the system and is, not at all a specific forecast.
I’m not at all concerned whether these examples of Phyzz Au or Stable Coin market dynamics will be achieved or not. However, 0.1% of 180 Thousand Tonnes of above ground gold (WGC stat) is 180 Tonnes and 3% in 5 Years is 5400 Tonnes. To me – that’s quite plausible.
I think that a good point is made that quite a lot of this may be hoarded and not spent – I agree with this. Some of this will have low velocity. However, consider this…Analyst Steve St Angelo (of SRS Rocco) produces wonderful studies of how the gigantic Gold and Silver paper futures markets, that dwarf the physically traded metals, have an uncanny knack of discovering Au and Ag prices slightly above or below all-in sustaining costs (AISC) of production. Meaning, that most mining companies struggle to make a profit! With costs almost always very high and price volatility often determining a profit or loss. If metals prices are significantly higher than costs, miners will generally mitigate future price volatility risk, by selling a certain percent of production forward in the futures markets (thus feeding the beast that drives prices down). However, the miners invariably do not hedge all of their production and often there is no hedging. For un-hedged gold and silver, selling refined product into the Kinesis Monetary System, this will be very interesting in terms of both overall cost reduction for producers and, very high velocity caused by continual flow of metals into accounts and almost equal payments, moving directly out to cover AISC. This velocity of this could mimic a drunkard, gambler’s weekly welfare bank deposit velocity.
Getting back to Tether, I presume Tether’s existence relied on it having high liquidity and trust (that USD are somehow all there waiting if required). Liquidity to Crypto trading exchanges/ markets seemed to hold up (I guess infinite liquidity is possible for computerized tokens), however, the trust seems to be highly questionable. I think Tether will not be able to compete with Kinesis in terms of trust and Kinesis certainly can compete in terms of liquidity. I don’t know if Kinesis can generate velocity of around 200%, like Tether did a year or so ago, however 30% - definitely yes and the stable coin market cap was not accounted for in the projection.
Precious Metal markets also include $5 Trillion USD paper market for the $15 Billion physical silver market. Imagine a 0.1% infiltration into the paper Ag market by certain hedge/wealth funds. That’s about the same MC as physical gold. The Paper Gold markets are huge too and also unaccounted for. Companies like Samsung, in South Korea, are doing deals with Canadian Miners (in Mexico) for direct supply of Ag, because it’s a key component of all of their electronics and physical supply is so tight. Kinesis could easily become a key facilitator and metals liquidity provider for industrial giants around the world.
Then there are people like me. I’ll investigate the feasibility of having my moderately good income deposited into KCoins and generally, speaking, my costs (outgoings) almost invariably always seem to match my income. I’m quite sure this principle applies to Phillipina Maids in Dubai wanting to kindly send their money cross border back to their family or crazy rich Chinese Businessmen that don’t want to send money back to their families. Backpackers that don't want to set up Bank accounts in every country they work, while getting hit with exchange rate fees and taxes. The possibilities are endless for both market cap and velocity in multiple markets (Individual, Corporate and Financial). The projections made in the blueprint aren’t forecasts. They help make it easier for us people who are not Austrian Economists, who remain annoyed that the Fed doesn’t publish M3 Velocity figures anymore, to understand how this system can work.
New article
https://imacq.com/why-i-think-kinesis-looks-like-the-best-way-ahead-for-...
US citizens can now Mint K coins
https://kinesis.money/en/company-news/minting-is-now-available-for-us-re...
Good work dingo. I’m sure
Good work dingo. I’m sure more will be interested after the imminent release of turds next interview with Tom and Andrew. Very interesting times.
Latest webinar
Launch of the Kinesis Monetary System
Kinesis, the subject of the July 30 interview with Tom Coughlin and Andrew Maguire https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/podcast/9588/kinesis-ready-move , is launching today. It is a complete digital monetary system based 1:1 on fully allocated gold/silver transacting on a distributed ledger, which can be queried at https://explorer.kinesis.money/ . Account holders have full legal title to their metals through the ledger, while the 7 vaults are audited twice yearly.
The exceptional feature of Kinesis is that it turns two paradigms on their head. The first is that gold has no yield. Not only are there no storage fees but there is a yield for holding gold, paid from the 0.45% transaction cost charged to users of KAU and KAG coins.
The second is the defeat of Gresham’s Law which states “good money drives out bad”. This is achieved by providing a perpetual minter’s yield to accounts that mint in minimum quantities of 100 gm gold and 200 oz silver once their coins have been emitted into circulation, either by spending, sending to another wallet or offering for sale on the Kinesis exchange. The amount of this perpetual yield depends solely upon the velocity of the monetary system. Until October 9th coins minted in the initial minting offer period will receive a 3X adjustment factor compared to those minted after. Minting has already occurred for those who hold a KVT (a no cash value token used to launch the system). Whereas only accredited US investors can hold KVTs, minting itself is now open to all US citizens and residents.
This is a complex system and for those who might be interested it is suggested that the blueprint be read https://kinesis.money/documents/translations/kinesis-blueprint-en.pdf .
Those of us who already have accounts would be pleased to answer questions.
Thanks for this Summary
Thanks for this summary, Steve. I too am a Kinesis user (KVT and minter of KAU and KAG) and have been watching the development of the system over these past many months.
I'm hopeful Kinesis can get some significant volumes of KAU and KAG minted over the next while. Both Tom and Jai have indicated in recent interviews that large volumes will be minted shortly.
Today's launch is only the start of the journey. There will be a number of hurdles and challenges, but the concept and product looks incredibly good.
Summary
I reposted my summary today in the main thread. I thought it was rather gauche to post such a summary in a thread on onegold. If we get traffic here I hope you will help to answer questions.
Kinesis Launch
Hi Steve,
I agree that the OneGold thread was not the right spot to post about Kinesis. I probably should have waited for another post from Turd before posting, but got caught up in the excitment of the K Launch.
Anyway .. yes I'm quite optimistic about Kinesis and the possibilities it brings. Will keep an eye on this thread and offer assistance where I am able.
Cheers.
2020: The year of Kinesis
https://www.dailyinvestnews.com/will-2020-be-the-year-of-kinesis/
Anyone interested is checking this out will help me by using my referral link kms.kinesis.money/signup?referrer=KM13451318
Thanks, I don't think TF is into this yet or I would be suggesting his link.
Latest promotion and explanation
A much clearer explanation of Kinesis
https://my.kinesis.money/
Kinesis has just released a new set of videos.
They can be viewed on youtube by entering kinesis.money and checking out the "Learn and Earn" series.
Learn and earn is a series of short, fairly elementary, videos designed to educate the general population. It is also a referral competition running until 2/10/2020. Referrers receive a perpetual 7.5% share of the transaction revenue of their referees. They referees in turn can refer others and get the 7.5%, but the original referrers do not share in this, so it is not a pyramid scheme but an incentive to use the system. While the competition runs the top 500 who recruit the most users will get at least 1 KVT.
You can sign up using my link and then you will get your own referral link: my.kinesis.money/signup/?referrer=KM13451318
If you really want to look into the Kinesis Monetary System in more depth then go to the home page at kinesis.money. At the very bottom under Resources the Stakeholder materials will lead you to the White paper and Blueprint.
Any questions can be posted here.
share of fees
SteveW,
I too am a KVT owner and have been mining to take advantage of the initial mining offer (IMO) period. Do you know anything about when fees will start being paid out? I think I read that in order to receive the IMO you have to send or spend or sell your holdings.
Thanks,
Phoenix79 (Mark)
Fee sharing
Hi Phoenix79,
Good to hear you've been minting and taking advantage of the extended IMO (until December 20, I think). I don't know when the first fee distribution will occur, it hasn't been announced. Yes, to get the minter's yield you have to send or spend or sell your holdings, otherwise you get the holder's yield for the coins in your wallet.
The videos are a short and good explanation, you can find them here: https://kinesis.money/learn-earn/#the-videos. Videos 6-8 cover those yields pretty well, KVT yield covered in #11.