Backpack Survival Rifle

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Dynamis
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Backpack Survival Rifle

I highly recommend this rifle

Kel-Tec :      SU-16A,  SU-16B,  SU-16C,  SU-16CA,  SU-16D,  SU-22

Pros-

Light, Folds, Fits in a backpack, Accepts standard M-4/M16 magazines, Threaded barrel, Low cost

Gen Info:   This Rifle is available in six different models. The stocks are interchangeable (Example) you can take the stock from the SU-16C and put it on the SU-16A.  Just remember, this might affect your state laws.  The Alpha and Bravo are legal in almost every state when fitted with 10 round magazines yet cannot fire when folded.  The C, CA, and 22 Models have threaded barrels, thus restricted in some states.  The C, CA, and D model will fire when folded.  The D is for law enforcement or if you have the ability and $ for a license. All but the 22 are made for 5.56 and .223,  some older models might be .223 only.   

NOTE:  The Kel-Tec SUB-2000 is another great backpack survival rifle.  Different versions of the SUB-2000 will accept most modern handgun magazines.

Reviews and Links:

http://www.keltecweapons.com/

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-SU16C.htm

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232423897

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 05:06
SilverTree
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cool

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg

tmosley
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Wow, a 14 shot shotgun.  That

Wow, a 14 shot shotgun.  That is awesome.  I think I would definitely drop $800 on something like that.

Thanks, SilverTree!

uptofreedom
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Dynamis wrote:  Just

Dynamis wrote:

Just remember, this might affect your state laws.  The Alpha and Bravo are legal in almost every state when fitted with 10 round magazines yet cannot fire when folded.  The C, CA, and 22 Models have threaded barrels, thus restricted in some states. 

These look great, thanks for sharing.  I feel less free for even having to ask this, but on the state laws note do you know a resource to check what's legal where?

Prize Fighter
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How about a full-auto

How about a full-auto shotgun?

AA-12

SilverTree
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The Boomstick

Prize Fighter
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Shop smart, shop S-Mart!

Shop smart, shop S-Mart!

Dynamis
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Laws and Saiga 12

Here is a link to state by state firearm laws.

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/#?st=VA

If you want to save yourself a few hours of reading, your best bet is to ask at a local gun shop.  It is pretty safe to assume that a rifle with no pistol grip, a longer barrel that is not threaded, does not fire when folded, and a small magazine capacity will be legal in most every state.  Just remember: A rifle that accepts different size magazines can be perfectly legal in a State, but once you stick in a magazine that exceeds what is written in the law you have committed a felony.

The bare bones Saiga-12 is a great shotgun that you can purchase for $500 to $800.  It is pretty much an AK-47 shotgun.  It is a platform that can be highly modified, (JUST REMEMBER STATE LAW).  A Stock Saiga with a 5 round magazine it is legal in most States.  If you have the money and the License’s you can send a stock $500 Siaga-12 into a gunsmith and it will come back to you folding, with a pistol grip, full rail systems, full auto, 30 round drum magazine and a very short breach(or spiked tip) barrel.    

One Last Note: Your gun can only have a limited amount of parts that come from another country. (Example, if you own a stock Russia-America Saiga-12 it already has foreign parts in it, so; when you start modifying the rifle and you put foreign parts on it, once you exceed the maximum allowed foreign parts you will violate federal gun law. This includes replacement springs, forward grips, magazines, anything that is not made in the USA!

http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_12.htm

http://forum.saiga-12.com/

uptofreedom
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Thank you.

Thank you.

Mike7.62
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Different idea

I have a different idea for a "survival" rifle. My idea is that if you're trying to exfil an urban/suburban are, you need to remain very silent and unobtrusive, but you also need to have a weapon that is acceptable for self defense, but can be used to procure game of all sizes, but primarily small game, e.g., squirrels, rabbits, cats, birds, etc. My "survival" rifle is a Savage M24 over/under. My particular one is in .223/12 Ga, but they come in many different caliber/gauge combinations. With a .22 LR adapter, or, if you handload, using reduced loads and 45 gr hornet bullets, you can take any small game out there and be reasonably quiet about doing so, especially if you use .22 Shorts, or standard velocity .22 LR's, or keep the handloads under 1100 f/s. You may also use the .223 barrel and the shotgun barrel to dissuade two legged varmints from bothering you, and use the shotgun portion for anything up to and including deer.

Unfortunately Savage no longer manufactures the M24, but you can find them in shops, at gunshows, and on www.gunbroker.com. Baikal, also makes a similar type rifle which is still in production, and in various caliber/gauge combos too.

This is just my .02 for a weapon that has great utility for many things. It isn't the type of weapon to be used fending off zombies in hordes, but if you're doing that by yourself, you've screwed the pooch. YMMV.

Captain Silver
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30-30

Like the lever action 30-30 with fixed sites and 12 round tube.  Good all around weapon.  But truth be told, in a true survival situation, a .22 mag or .17HMR may be the best choice.  They'll take down a wide range of common small game, ammo is cheap and easy to come by, effective against a hostile target if need be. And they're light! But a rifle is not the best defense weapon anyway.  Small caliber rifle for hunting, good pistol for close quarters defense.

__________________

Our monetary system has been hijacked by morons! Abandon ship!!!!

Citizen621
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@Mike7.62

I agree with your premise.  If it really comes to bugging out in a Mad Max world that needs the kind of firepower described above, a 56 year old man like me is screwed.  That Saiga would probably just make me a target and weapon donor for someone with combat experience.

Having said that, I used to own a Savage .22/20 and it never did live up to my expectations.  Perhaps because I just had the original iron sights.  What do you use?

The title of the thread says rifles - one each for the wife & I means a .22 & a 30/30.

I Got Worms
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I have a Marlin Papoose .22. 

I have a Marlin Papoose .22.  The barrel unscrews and fits in a waterproof case that you can stow in any backpack. Good squirrel gun.

Dynamis
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Hard Times

First off, I think you all have great opinions in rifles.  I believe that any rifle is better than no rifle at all.  The main point I was trying to make with the KEL-TEC SU series is how extremely versatile it is in relation to State laws and the environment you live in.  It is extremely inexpensive compared to “assault rifles” that are chambered in 5.56 and .223.  It is available to folks who by law cannot buy a hand gun or a rifle with a pistol grip and yet it still can legally fold to fit in a small backpack, ready to fire in a matter of seconds.  The other advantage is the wide variety in magazine size (5 to 150 round magazines) and the fact it takes most any AR platform magazines.   

As for as the Saiga-12, when stock it is legal in almost all States and looks like any other ordinary shotgun.  It is also very affordable for a semi-auto and it does not look flashy at all when unmodified.  The beauty of the gun is that it will take magazine sizes from 3 rounds all the way up to 32 rounds without any modification.  It is also very inexpensive. A few years ago you could pick one up for under $200 and now the low side price is $500 due to demand.

Obviously your choice in rifle is dependent on where you live, yet that Mad Max scenario is not as far out there as you might think.  Take the recent huge string of robberies and home invasions in South Africa as an example.  You will not hear about these types in the news, yet thousands yes thousands have happened in the last few years.  Many farming families have been brutally tortured days on end and then slaughtered do to the fact that the assailants would take down the houses in large groups, usually 5 or more men.  Most of assailants do not bring guns because they feel powerful in numbers.  Many of these farmers are turning to heavy firepower to protect their homes, even teaching the wife and kids to wield weapons like the ones listed above. I truly hope America will not come to this type of violence, but it is not looking good. 

-Dynamis

Mike7.62
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Savage M24

I use the iron sights with my reduced loads, and a Bushnell TR25 for the .223. The irons are good for most small game out to 50 yards with heart/lung hits. The rifle has a 1/12' twist, and won't stabilize anything over 55 gr, but M193 ball works well in it, as do my handloads. I carry an assortment of 12 Gauge shells, ranging from Federal 2 3/4" Tactical 00 buck, to slugs, to #6 and #8 shot. The weapon has a Weaver rail on it, so I could mount any optic that I wish, but the TR25 seems to work the best for what I need, and is light and compact, and also works with the shotgun portion. I'm thinking of replacing the Bushnell with an Aimpoint Mini, but haven't done so yet.

The gun breaks down into a 24" package and fits in a case that goes in the back of my vehicle along with my web gear and Alice pack. If I ever need to hump out of the ville, I'll assemble the weapon and ditch the case, but it keeps the weapon unobtrusive during transport. All of the ammo goes either in my web gear, or is on a butt mounted cartridge carrier.

I thought out this system as a way to get home from work should the SHTF, or should a natural disaster occur and damage the roads and bridges. I work in a city that is right by the Mississippi, but is known for earthquakes of some magnitude. If they have another, or should there be large scale civil unrest due to whatever, I can exfil on foot should vehicular transport be impossible, and at least have food for two weeks, and the ability to get more and defend myself from most predators. I also have a .40 caliber handgun that is my personal carry weapon, as well as my duty weapon. Between the two, I feel well armed.

Mike7.62
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Dynamis

I totally agree concerning the gangs that will torture, loot, and/or rape and kill anyone who is in a remote locale and unarmed. This is happening now not just in the RSA, but is also happening on the southern US border and has happened in Zimbabwe and Argentina, and is likely to become commonplace in not so remote locales should civil breakdown occur. Having a good weapon capable of engaging multiple threats and that can be used by all family members is not only good sense, but virtually mandatory during these times. The Kel Tec can indeed fill that bill. Heck, having a few inexpensive firearmssuch as the Kel Tec that one can use to arm and train those neighbors who are not armed is a good idea, as numbers count in that type of scenario.

My situation is more of a mobile medium term trek to get back to my home where I can rejoin my family and access the type of weapon that you describe. IMO such a trek should be made as unobtrusively as possible and also be able to gather food along the way just in case it takes longer than planned to reach the goal. No criticism of your post was intended, just adding my opinion on another aspect of what a survival rifle means in my particular situation.

HiHo Silver
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Finding a Kel-Tec C is

Finding a Kel-Tec C is impossible but it seems to be the one. I may just take any carbine of theirs I can find. Price quality utility all seem to be in a sweet spot over a $2000 Baer Custom or Colt and such. 

The Ruger Mini-14 also seems to be a quality tool if the Kel Tecs can't be found.

HiHo Silver
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Dynamis wrote:  Take the

Dynamis wrote:
  Take the recent huge string of robberies and home invasions in South Africa as an example.  You will not hear about these types in the news, yet thousands yes thousands have happened in the last few years.  Many farming families have been brutally tortured days on end and then slaughtered do to the fact that the assailants would take down the houses in large groups, usually 5 or more men.  Most of assailants do not bring guns because they feel powerful in numbers.  Many of these farmers are turning to heavy firepower to protect their homes, even teaching the wife and kids to wield weapons like the ones listed above. I truly hope America will not come to this type of violence, but it is not looking good. 

-Dynamis

I've seen a documentary on S. Africa called "Shoot to Kill".  ​Its about the crime and the public's reaction and basically getting armed.  The South Africans even bred the only guard dog in the world  used for purely for protection the Boerboel.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerboel

I hope it doesn't come to this, but when the entitlement class discovers that the checks don't buy enough or don't even arrive, large cities will be living hells. At least until everything worth stealing is stolen, then they will fan out in search of sustenance.

All this war gaming is essential for distilling a coherent approach to the potential collapse of civility. A companion question is will there be a revival of vigilantism?

Captain Benny
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SilverTree

Now that's a shotgun I think I'd like to own!  14 rounds sounds very exciting.  As a dramatically different design from the trusted Remington 870/Mossberg 500, we must question the long term reliability/durability, but this kind of toy gets me a little excited!

Captain Benny
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Protein!

I Got Worms wrote:

I have a Marlin Papoose .22.  The barrel unscrews and fits in a waterproof case that you can stow in any backpack. Good squirrel gun.

Where I live, there are rabbits, snakes, coyotes, and coons for small game and since I live on the edge of a city, they're pretty rare.  A relatively short hike away, I can find larger game such as black bears and wild horses.  I doubt I'll run out of food in the immediate aftermath of a SHTF scenario as I expect it to last for months and not years, but if it came down to it I do know there is protein available on foot.

With that said, I'm seriously considering raising rabbits after I landscape/plow the backyard for gardening.

Mike7.62
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WTF

Is the "furminator" some type of firearm? Are you pimping something here? I have a personal solution for feral cats, it's called a .22LR.

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