Greece? who cares

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Shill
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Greece? who cares
Cook taxpayers owe $108 billion, county Treasurer Pappas says: Greg Hinz

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=greg-hinz&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=1daca073-2eab-468e-9f19-ec177090a35c&plckPostId=Blog:1daca073-2eab-468e-9f19-ec177090a35cPost:73061b12-c71d-45b0-aad9-130e57727e64&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

HT:EPJ

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 05:06

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infinite_easing
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oh, don't worry - the rating

oh, don't worry - the rating agencies are coming for them too.

davefess
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holy moly

pensions continue to be the problem and people just don't get it. After all the debt and promises that can't be made, people in Wisconsin are upset with our Republican governor for taking away the cookie jar. Granted Scott Walker is no Ron Paul, but at least he is bringing adult conversation to the table. Yet all that people want are their pensions, healthcare, and bargaining privileges. What a shame.

I am going to rant for just a bit since I can't sleep. Here in our small town of 1,300 we have the largest High School field house in the state. A town of 1300. It holds a 200 meter track and four basketball courts I believe. Batting cages as well. There is no way our school district could of ever came up with the money for this. How did we get it then? Well the state got some money from the Fed gov't who borrowed the funds. When I tell people here that we should not have such a facility for a school this size, it is as if I am speaking heresy. The typical comment is well its good for the kids to have this. While this may be true, things come at a price. A price that no one wants to pay, so we borrow. Whether its pensions, healthcare, or a field house everyone wants the service, but no one is willing to sacrifice to obtain it. This is a systemic problem that has swept the nation and is in every town, county, and state. It's even in the Tea Party. So the dance will continue until the power is cut off. Could be as long as five years from now, but eventually the party will come to an end.

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SilverFocker
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I see it another way

Pensions are not the problem, those in charge who agreed to them, without funding them, are the problem. This is simple math, and not hard to understand, the problem was the continued kicking the can funding mentality that has now caught up with everything and everyone involved.

If you borrow money on a balloon note , you know at some point it is coming due, if you did not budget for it, who's really at fault.

I really get tired of seeing all the blame being pushed on the workers, you would think that these people were bankers with all the finger pointing, and people are getting to a breaking point, its time for the government's, local to the Fed to take responsibility and quit degrading the workers.

davefess
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agree somewhat

Look those pensions should have never been promised, but people need to act like adults. I am not going to pay a 70% tax rate so people can keep their over bloated pensions, because politicians are too weak to act accordingly when the public sector employees storm the capital protesting over a 5% increase into their pension plan. Give me a break. So its both. I don't see anyone from public employee unions saying, yes we should pay more for our healthcare and pensions, because for 30 years we have been given a deal too good to be true. Instead you get protests, violence and oh yeah property destruction. That's great so now I have to pay for the property they destroyed when they threw their hissy fit too. ($7.5 million when they protested in Madison, WI...and those were mostly teachers. Wonderful example)

So just as you are getting tired of people slamming public workers, I am getting tired of having to hear about how "wronged" they have been. 

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SilverFocker
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davefess wrote: Look those

davefess wrote:

Look those pensions should have never been promised, but people need to act like adults. I am not going to pay a 70% tax rate so people can keep their over bloated pensions, because politicians are too weak to act accordingly when the public sector employees storm the capital protesting over a 5% increase into their pension plan. Give me a break. So its both. I don't see anyone from public employee unions saying, yes we should pay more for our healthcare and pensions, because for 30 years we have been given a deal too good to be true. Instead you get protests, violence and oh yeah property destruction. That's great so now I have to pay for the property they destroyed when they threw their hissy fit too. ($7.5 million when they protested in Madison, WI...and those were mostly teachers. Wonderful example)

So just as you are getting tired of people slamming public workers, I am getting tired of having to hear about how "wronged" they have been. 

Best take a look at what the real reason they were there to begin with, it was not over a measly 5% increase in contributions , it was about the right to collectively bargain. Like I stated before , if you contract for a certain amount of money over a certain amount of time in the form of a pension, you better be paying for it over that time span, and you better not be willy nilly about the investment you make in doing so hence 08, trillions were lost in these plans.

The governments have failed in this type of regulation to see that all pension plans are 100% funded at all times, and to see that that money is not at risk by WS thieves.

One thing that is left out of the scenario is the private sector........the same will occur, but on a much broader scale, if this trend continues , you ain't seen nothing yet in terms of property destruction, but the 7.5 million you quoted, Baaa..........lets see the real number and not some made up BS headline number.

All this hoopla about the unions has only diverted attention away from the real thieves by pitting the workers against the taxpayer, as it was easy to do, divide a conquer, an old concept that works 100% of the time.

davefess
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so what is the solution then

There is no money to pay for the pensions. So what are our options? Divide and conquer? Ok then why don't public employees join our side and let's starve the beast? Why is it that we have to agree with public sector employees? If you want to talk about divide and conquer lets look at income disparity. Average wage here for private sector is between 10-13 an hour. Average government employee 15-20/hr. I watch hard working people getting screwed out of wages all the time. They work very hard for about 3/4 what government employees make.  20 years ago you could get a job here for 10 bucks an hour, so wages haven't really gone up. Wages stay flat, while everything else goes up rapidly. I would gladly join public employees in the fight against government, but they are arguing government doesn't do enough for them and my argument is stay the heck out of my business. So what common ground is there?

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SilverFocker
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Closer than you think

The Public employees are saying the same thing you are......Government screwed up! Who is left to pay for it.........40 years ago those guilty would be imprisoned or worse.  The problem is no one is active in their governments anymore, life has gotten fast paced and no one cares until it effects themselves.

Everyone has skin in the game now, this is just the beginning of a monstrosity of a problem, their will be no easy or fair outcome, but those responsible will be right back in office, so the blame can be seen by everyone in the reflection of the mirror. 

Violent Rhetoric
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Next up... War between the

Next up... War between the takers and the givers.

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Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as “bad luck.”
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davefess
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even if we start from scratch

We still have a lot of debt that just can't be paid. Even at the state level. I agree with you though all these politicians will be re-elected. We have a recall election here for a state senator and I am sure he will survive it.

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