It's going to take a while to get used to the point spread between the posts that constitute our conversation, but this thread seems to have found a sudden popularity, which is probably a good thing.
I see that you disagree with me again, when you declare that most defendants never see a jury, as the risks are too high and costly. Well actually, I agree with that statement, something like 95% of the people convicted in this country are convicted on a plea bargain, because through threats and intimidation, it's easier to do that, then to actually prove your innocence, or more correctly stated, allow the prosecution to prove their case.
Even I would concede, most juries have become far to stupid to actually entrust them with anything that might amount to my freedom, and yet, that is exactly the course of action that I would be prepared to take.
If I had to notify them of their "Responsibility" to nullify any insane and immoral law, I would do it myself in open court.
As far as your "real trick" in having laws changed, that ship has sailed. Begging your local legislator for new rules that are just a bit less tyrannical than the old ones, leaves you no leverage whatsoever.
I don't think that you even comprehend the fact that he doesn't work for you.
But that's okay, it's a common misconception.
Those are some neat laws that you cited where the "authorities" are obviously infringing on your rights.
Horses are normally tied to something overnight, even if it's to the wall of their own stall, personally, I don't see an objective reason for outlawing fence posts. This gives one of the thugs with a badge and a gun the right to steal from you, if he sees a horse at night. Doesn't matter if it's your horse, on your property. Maybe he's running low on his ticket quota, and views driving by your house a "godsend", as his problems with meeting his quota are suddenly resolved.
What defines "cohabitation"?
If I stopped by to visit, are we cohabitating?
If the moronic thug in a goofy costume with the gun knocks on your door at night, to give you the ticket for your horse not being in the barn, and Jays answers the door, does the piece of shit get to write you another ticket?
Okay, now you've got to go to court. What do you do? Just pay the fines? You think that makes the problem go away?
You see, that moronic parasitical piece of shit driving around in his new squad car, now knows an easy place to write tickets.
He's just like the groundhog who's figured out how to tunnel underneath the fence to your garden, and he'll just keep coming back for more.
Your local Congress critter, or Satanic legislator, has already laughed you out of his office, for even suggesting that the laws are insane, and need to be changed, after all, enforcing rules that destroy your own property rights, and individual sovereignty are quite profitable to him. Heck, he can even tell you that if you ever come back, you'll be trespassing.
So here's the difference between you and me, I would demand a jury, and present this case in front of my fellow citizens.
Ironically, that's the last thing THEY want. Why do you think they use terrorism, coercion, and extortion to make such an occurrence highly unlikely? Of course they're going to try and scare the shit out of you, and make all kinds of threats as to what could happen to you if you lost your case in front of a jury.
But if they lose their case, that law doesn't exist anymore. You set a precedent. One that can be used anytime in the future.
That's how you change a law. When a jury nullifies it, enforcing it in the future becomes highly problematic.
Yesterday, you cited the O.J. Simpson case as an example of jury nullification. Not really. Murder is still illegal.
The prosecution simply failed to prove their case. But that's actually an entirely different debate, but I remember the case quite well, and if you'd like to have a go around with that one, I'm game.
We have been told over, and over again, that "if you don't like the law, get it changed", and then you assume that this has to be done through a legislator, who has every reason in the world to present you with his middle finger upon request.
Jury nullification is also a valid way to change an unjust law, but the system has a vested interest in making sure that no jury ever hears about it. They routinely arrest anyone who attempts to inform a jury of their rights, and I would argue, their responsibility to nullify a law that is both immoral and unconstitutional. As I said yesterday, there really isn't much of a distinction between those two.
I'm having this discussion with you, because I know that when you believe you are right, you don't back down.
That makes two of us.
It's people like us that can measurably change the system, but you actually have to know how to do it.
I spent the better part of last year investigating such things. These people collapse like throwing a bowling ball at a house of cards, once they are challenged, they just try to stack the deck, so it is highly unlikely.
Their threats need to be ignored.
By the way,
On to a different topic, but you brought it up, Trumps win proves absolutely nothing. The exact same tyrannical agenda is moving forward under this administration, as with the last one. The shit show we are being fed in the daily news, is nothing but stagecraft. Let's put it this way, Donald Trump won, because he was supposed to. If anything, his actions since the inauguration prove my assertion that elections don't matter. Please pay attention to what he does, not what he says.
Like any other politician, he tells you what you want to hear, and fucks you when you're not looking.
This is clearly an example as AM cited, where I abandoned my own principles, and bought the lie. (For a little while). Trump is a construct designed to offer us a false hope. All he is doing in reality, is doubling down on tyranny.
Sorry about being so disagreeable,
But as long as you're propping up a mainstream narrative that is provably false, I'm going to counter it.
Would you expect anything else from me?
Hugs, and have a nice day.
I have just been informed of a citizen's initiative (our state can do that) to cause revenues from tickets (in our state) to go to a charity of the ticketed party's choosing instead of to the ticketing "authority". Supposedly the initiative is in the title approval process.
I'd sign that!
argentus maximus wrote: The winner is the one that was right. We learn that after the fact. Later on. The loser is the one that tried to win and couldn't, and backing down had a cost. The coward is the one on the sidelines, calling the one he identifies with to come out and fight. A consistent winner pays no attention to him. A consistent winner might fight intermittently if that's the tactically cheaper way to win later when a win now is impossible. A consistent loser might do the same, but lose intermittently. It's evident later after he has lost if that is so.
The winner is the one that was right. We learn that after the fact. Later on.
The loser is the one that tried to win and couldn't, and backing down had a cost.
The coward is the one on the sidelines, calling the one he identifies with to come out and fight. A consistent winner pays no attention to him.
A consistent winner might fight intermittently if that's the tactically cheaper way to win later when a win now is impossible.
A consistent loser might do the same, but lose intermittently. It's evident later after he has lost if that is so.
I think those are extremely good points, also well presented and formatted!
I am certainly not arguing with any of that
a small caveat I would throw into those thoughts is that any of those examples is a place that one could offer a lesson to the individual who found himself there. Thereby turning a loss into a learning experience, laying the groundwork for a future victory that would not have otherwise been possible.
My original thought was that The Coward should be excluded from my statement but even The Coward might feel the shame of his cowardice and learn to take part in the fray, overcoming his cowardly nature.
Would you disagree?
I also thought I'd mention that because tone and body language is absent from text, sometimes our written/typed words do not present themselves to others in the way we intend. I use sarcasm a bit too much most likely, and I wanted to make sure I mentioned it. I thought the banter you threw at me yesterday was pretty good stuff. Calling me out for using a VolksWagon avatar using a Nazi reference is something I have done to friends of mine who drive VW's. It made me chuckle that you would do so over my avatar!
I see your Top Gear video and raise you one Toyota sir
This should be a playlist of 3 videos. Some of the damage they do is just cosmetic, but some is quite remarkable imho
Well, I guess that's good news...
Especially if you get choose your own charity. Most of them are just criminal enterprises, taking your money.
With the new dramatic increase in civil asset forfeitures, cases don't even go to court, they just steal what they want, so technically, fines aren't even relevant anymore. I posted those stories a few days ago, but, apparently, nobody seems to care.
I'd rather see a shit load less tickets written, a lot less revenue agents (demonic thugs) holding up the public at gunpoint, and a hell of a lot more freedom.
But that's just me.
I wonder if I qualify for minority rights?
Thanks for the Volkswagen drop video, that was funny.
I don't usually do funny.
Yeah, surprised me too.
if you're buying the official narrative regarding the "war between the deep state and Donald Trump”, you're in good company,
But I'm not buying it.
What exactly has Donald Trump done for us? He blames congress for everything he hasn't done, which is far as I'm concerned, is quite predictable, as the agenda moves boldly forward.
There's plenty of examples, but how about his so-called spat with Jeff Sessions in his recusal of the Russian investigation, or not throwing Hillary Clinton in jail yet?
All I see him doing, is blaming others, when he does in fact have the power to fire any federal workers, particularly if they are in his cabinet, and replace them with people who will do what he wants.
He's not doing that, because they are doing exactly what he wants.
More accurately, Donald Trump is a puppet for the deep state, but he needs to talk a good game so his "base" doesn't abandoned him.
He's our “antiestablishment” man, so they have to make it look like he's actually fighting the establishment.
98 out of 100 senators has basically declared war on Russia, and Donald Trump isn't doing squat about it.
Jeff sessions has authorized more widespread use of "civil asset forfeiture laws” which are nothing but a blatant theft.
If some piece of shit fucking cop likes what you've got, he can steal it, Anytime, anywhere, for any reason, and you can't do shit about it.
How's the swamp draining going by the way? All those treasonous pedophiles are being rounded up right?
That trillion dollars worth of infrastructure repair work is going to start any day now, right?
All those useless federal departments that just put a wet blanket on all commerce in the United States are going away, right?
Has the EPA rolled back any regulations? Remember that part where two regulations get eliminated for each one added?
Sure, he's throwing a little bit of red meat to his base, like kicking out all the trans-genders from the military, probably the biggest transgender employment agency on planet earth, but if you're really hell-bent on killing people and breaking things, these probably weren't your best choices for the job anyway.
Obamacare, thoroughly designed to destroy our country, isn't going anywhere, and even his proposals are even more oppressive then the current laws.
Has the government backed out of any area at all?
The answer is no.
Now, as far as repealing ridiculous laws is concerned, you cited a couple of laws that have been on the books in your locality for about a century,
Why do you think it is they are still there?
They just never got around to repealing them?
I think a lot of these laws remain on the books, so if they don't like you, and you wind up on their shit list, they are heavily armed to declare war on you, and could probably site dozens of laws that you and almost all of your neighbors are in violation of right now.
They can also use these laws as threats and coercion for getting what they want.
Laws only get nullified when they are challenged.
When I was in high school, I was driving a car that I had built in my backyard. One night, the muffler fell off, so I put it in my trunk.
Well, it just so happens that I passed a piece of shit pig on a highway entrance ramp, on my way home.
He pulled me over for the noise, but when he checked the numbers on my registration, and asked where the vehicle identification number was on the car, I handed it to him. He immediately put handcuffs on me.
I was put in jail and charged with five separate felonies, because that's how many different vehicle identification numbers they found on my car, and it didn't matter that I had bought and paid for every single one of the cars that I used for parts. I had proof of ownership for all of them.
Apparently, it's illegal in New York to dismantle a car without a dismantlers license. I was in high school, how the fuck would I know that?
Well, the state police said at my arraignment that they had busted a stolen car ring, they impounded my car, and took it apart with torches, crowbars, and other implements of destruction, to find every vehicle identification number on every part.
Since I had already shown them the five registrations for the chassis numbers, they then demanded receipts for all the parts they couldn't find numbers on, for example, I had to produce a bill of sale for its transmission, which was easy, use to change them all the time for other people.
Well, these fucks kept my car for three months, and then decided that the strategy would be that they would trace each and every number back to its original owner, contact every owner of every car involved, to see if they could find somebody, somewhere, who would say that something was stolen off their car.
They came up empty.
Ah, but there's still those five felonies for dismantling those five cars without a license to do so. My counter, was "since when is it illegal for a teenager to build his own car”? I don't give a flying fuck how many laws I've broken, I haven't done anything wrong.
Yeah, I challenged the law. As a private citizen, working on my own vehicle, in my own yard, where the fuck do you guys get off charging me with five felonies?
And who's going to put that fucking pile of debris back together in the police impound, so I can drive my car again?
I was told that the way the law read, I was guilty of five felonies. I told them to rewrite their fucking law. I didn't do anything wrong.
Well, lucky me, the judge finally had enough, and said that the law needed to be rewritten to apply to businesses only. He through out the case.
The court had to file papers with the New York State legislature, with a court order to rewrite the law. The judge said so.
In order to get my car back, I had to sign a waiver excusing the police for their aberrant behavior, and promise not to sue the fucking shit out of them.
Like a moron, I signed it. I had to get New York State to assign another vehicle identification number to the cars chassis, spent the better part of a week reassembling it, and even went out and bought a new muffler clamp for the muffler.
The law got changed, so the next innocent teenager who decides to build his own car out of used parts doesn't get fucked over like I did.
That's one way to nullify a law.
It took me about four months.
Yeah, I see your last post, and yes, they overcharge for everything now, we have a surcharge on all fines now, that goes to the state, which I would imagine greatly reduces your chances on appeal. They're literally paying off the higher courts, so the lower courts don't get overruled.
Our legal system is now just a criminal enterprise from top to bottom. Taking it to a jury is all we've got left.
I'm back to doing some legal research myself, I've gotten myself into the middle of a war between our local Hamlet, and the town who claims jurisdiction over us. It's very highly likely I'm going to be arguing a case in front of a jury in the very foreseeable future.
If the town supervisor doesn't back off his bullshit, I'm taking him to court myself. He's already calling me names on his Facebook page,
What a fucking baby.
He really hates when things don't go his way. Like I said, these people don't know what the fuck to do when you stand up against them, They're simply not used to it, and don't have a strategy for it yet.
In the meantime, I'm continuing to break laws wherever, and whenever they get in my way. Come and get me you stupid fucks, if I get a jury of my peers,
Town Hall will be fully exposed for the criminal enterprise that it is.
Everybody needs a hobby…
25 years ago, I was working with collection of Yahoos, who all agreed that OJ was guilty as hell. I still remember the day the verdict was announced, because I was the only one in the entire crowd that said the prosecution never proved their case.
They thought I was a moron, yeah, we were all lily white, but I didn't agree with any of them. When the verdict was read, I just smiled.
I can't get inside the heads of all those jurors, but I did pay careful attention to the case as it unfolded, and watched the recaps every night.
Heck, it was actually the only thing on television in those days.
Everyone saw the same evidence that I did, I was the only one that agreed with the verdict.
I don't want to retry the case here, that's just my experience.
Personally, I agree with you, my gut says he's guilty as hell, but the prosecution was a disaster. Legally speaking, an epic fail.
I've got some sleep to catch up on, or I'm not going to be worth a damn at work tomorrow. I'm finally back home in my own house, and all of those road trips are behind me now.
It's good to be back.
Since we are doing truck reviews, I have a Nissan Titan that is a colossal failure of engineering. I am a Nissan fan. I have had three Maximas, a Pathfinder, a Nissan Quest Minivan, and they were all great. This Titan is the biggest piece of crap I have ever driven. Everytime I drive it, something breaks, and that is no exaggeration. I finally relegated it to dump runs and to tow my camper only and bought a Mercedes for my everyday driver. I feel better now, and I am supporting Nazi's like a good slave!
Your words ring true to me on this chain of arguments.
When I was young I may have ran afoul of law enforcement once, twice... I dunno and who is counting anyway? hehe. That was then and this is now. It has been a very long time for me since I've been there because I guess I got tired of "touching the burner", so to speak. That's an extremely simplistic interpretation of my personal process but I'll go with it. Let me clarify: It's been well over a decade.
Here is a little story
I have argued in court while facing 180 days county many, many moons ago. Probation violation on a gross misdemeanor original charge, my violations were an "unauthorized change of address" and "failure to report" along with a couple other things. I was sitting in an orange jumpsuit before the judge because I had fired my public pretender and was now representing myself. My pretender was hoping to get me "only 90 days"... but he also DID NOT sound convincing at all. I could tell I was in deep deep doodoo
Like I said, I fired his ass and represented myself
you said something like this and I won't look it it up to quote verbatim: "I may be dumb but I ain't nobody's fool" although I know we both realize we ain't dumb either, right? ;-)
My P.O. and the D.A. wanted 180 damn days, as I said...
When I got to stand up in my Orange Jumpsuit, with my hands cuffed, standing and addressing the Judge. Which, I realize probably no one here has been through, but let me tell you it is a very very powerless feeling and requires some "core channeling" for lack of a bettyer term.
I began to cross examine my probation officer (whom I knew from reporting for quite some time) I saw the fear in her eyes because she knew I was a clever wild card and she had been lying.
I could tell story in better detail but the crux is this:
She and the DA wanted me to get 180 days in the county
I busted her in 3 lies,under oath, perjury on the stand, it really really was dramatic for me and the people in court that day. People who were waiting for their people who were listed on the docket. My girlfriend of the time was there of course and she was skreechingly happy when I called collect later...
It wasn't a great period in my life, to be sure, but I get my victories now and then also ;-)
I got 30 days, credit for time served, which left me with 2 weeks to do as I recall
I should mention that over 90% of the time, where I come from, the probation officer and the DA recommended sentence is delivered upon by the judge.
I was the hero of the tank for a short while, because I wasn't there for long ha!
I have played the modern "game of thrones, court version" as the underdog,
so I do speak from experience when I say:
The whole point of the system is that both the police and the D.A. want to gain percentages of conviction.They will pile on charges because a jury trial where you are actually able to actualize your rights is very expensive. They lean in upon you with "fear of the court" and "consecutive sentencing" just to make you "cop a plea" out of fear. They will pile upon "the defendant" with overwhelming charges/consecutive sentencing, overwhelming fines, court costs, legal fees for public pretenders who really are getting their paychecks from the court system (out to get you) itself. Fear of missing rent/mortgage payments, fear of losing everything in your home if no one steps up to pack up your stuff, fear of losing your job, fear of losing your woman/man as the case may be.
I realize that this isn't a trial by jury situation of course
I am speaking more to the weight the system places against an individual in order to avoid jury trial and to let others kniow that I have credibilty in fighting against the said "criminal system"
Just for the record, I wasn't breaking any laws that actually hurt anyone, some drug use I'm sure (long behind me now), mainly just growing/smoking some weed
on the one hand, I believe there are many cases where juries should nullify
on the other, if you're looking for trouble you are going to find it. This guy, by being outside the courthouse passing out information that presumably could be placed directly in a jurors hands is certainly looking to find trouble.
that's it, I hope I didn't waste too much of anyone's time with my court story
cheers to all the Dots people, even the ones who I get riled up from time to time
PS: I ain't here to be judged
some people grow and move onward some don't
I look back now and I am very very grateful I didn't get swallowed up by the system. It sure tried
I'm hesitant to send this but oh well, what the hell
Ruffian wrote: those crazy effers want to tear down a statue of Andrew Jackson. I mean wtf ??? the last straw from me was removing the flag from the General Lee. Yet we called Isis barbarians for tearing down 2-3k old carving and statues. Two factions of nig nogs - one wants to go back to Africa. 2nd group wants several southern states to be their own. I nearly reminded them of Liberia then I thought nah ... Let 'em figure it out on their own hehe. Dumb fucks.
those crazy effers want to tear down a statue of Andrew Jackson. I mean wtf ???
the last straw from me was removing the flag from the General Lee.
Yet we called Isis barbarians for tearing down 2-3k old carving and statues.
Two factions of nig nogs - one wants to go back to Africa. 2nd group wants several southern states to be their own. I nearly reminded them of Liberia then I thought nah ... Let 'em figure it out on their own hehe. Dumb fucks.
This was up there with #EndFathersDay (picked up by lena dunham and used unironically the following year.lol) and #NoWhiteDemocrats. Perhaps the most worthy meme seeding of that variety:
When Awan was arrested he got himself a Clinton lawyer...who could possibly be surprised by that?
Now, Awan's case is being overseen by none other than Debbie Wasserman Schultz's brother, federal judge Steven Wasserman. What are the odds?
Last f'ing tidbit: the brothers had access to the Blackberry Enterprise Server. What they don't say is whether the server is for the whole damn government, or "just" for the House.
(Remember when DWS was caught using a device to mask her voice while trying to get info from an attorney's office, but forgot to turn off her caller ID, or when she threatened the cop with "consequences" for keeping her laptop?) I won't be surprised if she commits "suicide" or dies of "natural causes" in the near future.
Mr. Fix wrote: Well, I guess that's good news... Especially if you get choose your own charity. Most of them are just criminal enterprises, taking your money. With the new dramatic increase in civil asset forfeitures, cases don't even go to court, they just steal what they want, so technically, fines aren't even relevant anymore. I posted those stories a few days ago, but, apparently, nobody seems to care. Personally, I'd rather see a shit load less tickets written, a lot less revenue agents (demonic thugs) holding up the public at gunpoint, and a hell of a lot more freedom. But that's just me. I wonder if I qualify for minority rights?
I have followed civil forfeiture for probably a decade or longer as it has become more common. I do care. When we moved we had cash, PMs, firearms, ammunition and many items of substantial value that I worried about. We moved in 4 trips with 2 vehicles on each trip so we did have things split up and so buried it have been a nightmare for them to discover and for us to repack if needed. That was over 8000 miles one way for them to have opportunity for the civil forfeiture of some or all of our goods. The fraud by the 'thugs' and those they serve in the courts is out of control and rampant.
I just don't get all worked up over it. Just because I do not post agreements doesn't mean I do not care. I hat tip nearly every post on this the read until I see the bickering. I have recently been challenged about a statement by one of our very verbose posters. I really have no interest in getting into extended debates over fine little points or differences in opinions, name calling and bickering, nor challenging to any extent some of the BS that goes on, but that is just me. Because of my lack of interest in arguing these points I keep my blood pressure in hibernation mode and my heart rate at rest like that of an athlete. I believe that if I don't cause my demise through my challenges in sporting activities that I will live a very long, high quality and fun filled life, with my life partner because of attitudes and abilities like this.
I am really quite comfortable with my life. Of course there are things in our world that piss me off and I find ways to deal with them, work to change them when I can, ignore some when it appears out of reach. You know we almost all get up every morning trying to bat 1000%, few of us succeed on a daily basis, but for those of who give it a try it is always a challenge and usually a win even if we only bat 800%. Of course there is learning and expanding our consciousness and personal growth and a host of other realities to deal with but I shouldn't need to go there with the folks here as many have anywhere from a few to some or all of these things in hand.
Have a great day all.
I can't speak for how Black Berry ran their servers, all I know is that from my AT&T server, as a system manager, I had access to any SIM card I sold and registered to AT&T. I could pull any text messages I wanted and listen to voice traffic as far as two years back. It was all stored on the servers. It was amazing and I didn't need a court order to do it. I was writing software and had "debug" capability so I could look back at any messages I wanted too, as long as those SIM cards were mine. By mine I mean, my company bought them in bulk and my company sold them and registered them into the AT&T network.
Now, I'm sure anyone within AT&T with the right password, could access anything they wanted no matter whose SIM card it was. And anyone who controlled the cell towers like Kore Telematics did, could listen to anything, anywhere, anytime. The infrastructure was built into the machine so we could access the data stream. There's no court order, it is how the machine was designed from the ground up. If you have (or hacked) the password, you're in. There was little security as far as I could tell. Now that was going on 5 years ago, doubt much has changed but they might have put up a fire wall or VPN since then. Still could be hacked. And now that you got me thinking about it, any BB message that came in or out of the network I was on, was also available to me if it was directed to one of my SIM cards. Its a complicated system where cell towers pass the communications from tower to tower as a car passes in and out of range. but the designers made it easy for me to see all the data.