Not that I raised that topic, but since we are on it, I'll bite.....
the source of that comment, is an oft mentioned internet assertion, that the sun can only be seen from earth, and not from space, and presumably not from the international space station either?
Anybody know an original source for that assertion?
I can't help myself. Stolen from main street.......................
Byzantium wrote: On a separate but related theme, I mentioned upthread, that if ancient cities in Antarctica did not exist, we would have to invent them. I am increasingly suspicious of the UFO / ET theme, and see it as being equally likely to be a distraction and / or deception event. Distraction from mass scandal, and a collapse in confidence of the deep state, 'Oh look, aliens!' Deception as in, 'oh look, humanity faces existential threat, lets band together' (cue council of humanity, joint military exercises, sharing technology in the spirit of the space station, one world government), and then global takeover by stealth.
On a separate but related theme, I mentioned upthread, that if ancient cities in Antarctica did not exist, we would have to invent them. I am increasingly suspicious of the UFO / ET theme, and see it as being equally likely to be a distraction and / or deception event.
Distraction from mass scandal, and a collapse in confidence of the deep state, 'Oh look, aliens!'
Deception as in, 'oh look, humanity faces existential threat, lets band together' (cue council of humanity, joint military exercises, sharing technology in the spirit of the space station, one world government), and then global takeover by stealth.
One could also make an argument that the search for mass scandal especially when it appears en masse is a distraction from what really is going on. If you get my drift….
But it’s a good question. Has something to do with where one puts their attention? A lot of competition these days and choices.
The question of whether Antarctica did/does exist or not has a very binary quality. Either totally true/or a great fabrication. I have a theory on "it's all made up" which applies to all such subjects. If you can go to a library and find dozens of books on a subject and references to the same subject back to antiquity, there is probably some element of truth. Whether or not John Kerry, the Russian Orthodox guy, and Buzz Aldrin all wanted to see what happens when you fart in sub zero conditions is another story.
I guess the distinction of which religion is true, do UFO’s exist, are there men running around in their Fruit of the Loom's under the earth, do men reincarnate has more to do with people’s perceptions and less to do with the universe. Our ability to see what is real, decide what is important lies in our minds. You've been here as long as I and have noticed that we seem to puzzle together reality very differently even with the same information.
My car is real. That I an attest to. Santa Claus is imagined. Very different.
My car exists in my mind as a memory and exists in the same place Santa Claus does. My car ceases to be just a memory when I go out and drive it unlike Santa Claus who never replies to my letters no matter how much I write. But to a child that wakes up to a new toy truck, it’s very real.
So how real is a financial collapse? A reset? Parabolic gold? Or even 600 gold at this point? All options in an infinite possibility universe, but for now, they exist in the same place in your brain as does Santa Claus until they appear and you can take them for a drive. Why are people hanging around if they have drawn firm conclusions? They need more validation on what they already know? Or is it a continual process of accumulating information?.
By now, you and I’ve read 100 theme and variations on the impending financial collapse. What life will be like, how we get there . The differences of opinion seems to have to do with how Our minds mold the facts and shape them until they fittest right into our world view. And maybe to do with what model you are using to arrive at those conclusions. Sometimes, people just don't say and that scares me. If I see no model, no indication of how you arrived at your conclusions, no matter how compelling, how well said, I get nervous.
If I tell a person that Santa Claus is all made up, they might get very angry with me. They have worked hard to alter their memories to make them fit their perceptions. Thank God, there are no 8 year olds on DOT’s. Truth might be painful in such a scenario if somebody brings up Santa Claus.
Right now the world is focused on Santa Claus related activities. Is that a distraction or a necessary part of life that we are obligated to participate in because of our cultural commitments?
Some years back when I studied the Phoenix Lights including all the very scholarly research, I learned that the Military explained it as LUU-19 flare test. So after studying pictures and video’s and expert testimony, reading the books, I concluded that that the lights in no way behaved like LUU-19 flares . I thunk to myself, who in their right mind would believe that? But I wanted to find out if I was trying to fit the facts into my preconceived notion. Maybe it was the exercise more than the conclusion that was important? And maybe no matter what the subject, it is the application of right thinking, a good world model that can get you to the right place?
When there is such divergent interpretation’s of reality, it’s my nature, and probably yours, to puzzle it out. To what end? For what good? I really can’t say other than I’d speculate that it is an intrinsic human quality to what to separate the wheat from the chaff.
I've decided that the flat earth meme is false after examination both sides of the arguement yet, which there are still some people that prefer that reality. At the end of the day if the earth was flat, it probably wouldn’t change my life very much. I don’t venture that far out to ever risk falling off the earth and all the airplanes and boats I’ve ever taken manage to stay within safe boundaries. So why do I care? Why do any of you care? Why do you care if you can see the sun in space? Seriously. Any of you intend on going? Part of our prime directive is understanding the nature of reality even if that means waking up, going to the construction site and coming home to dinner with the kids. Ya gonna learn something, whether you catalog it is a different story.
Why did my high school teachers waste my time (a big distraction IMO) from what was happening in the world to teach me about fanciful stories written by Greeks, and Roman’s many years before. Why did I distract myself from important life duties by studying Norse myths, Incan and Native American myths? They are practically the same stories in different clothes. Why did these cultures spend so much time inventing fanciful stories. Just weird…. And why does our current culture have no myths. Was this the way that ancient cultures chronicled history? Try going into a bar and talking comparative mythology. Why did they take so much time to write very detailed stories. What would be the motivation to make it all up?
And to show you how crazy I am, I was interested to see if any or all those cultures distracted themselves from what was important to invent crazy myths about a culture that existed in Antarctica. As it happens, they had very similar interests and hallucinations as some of us here. Why did they waste their time writing fanciful stories about imagined people and places?? I bet ya there were scandals and financial concerns in those days too. Did the people who were distracted get the other stuff more right or wrong?
Why do I bother reading books that refute everything I learned in school about Columbus and the discovery of America? Chinese, Japanese, Celtic, Norse, Egyptians African all did it before Columbus? Why bother trying to figure out why there were Roman coins, Egyptian flutes played by Native Americans, and buildings that mirror the sacred geometry of the great pyramids in the USA yet no culture here had the knowledge to build them?
And it’s true, the more I read, I don’t get any closer to knowing what gold will do in 6 months, or if Pizzagate was real, and if how the financial system will collapse and when, etc…
my wife would assert that everything we discuss here is a distraction from what is really important. The things I need to do, to ensure substance and a warm house for tomorrow. The things you can touch and have some modicum of control over.
I don’t have the answer other than I would rather live in a universe where the earth is a globe, live in a land that was visited by many people with great navigation skills for thousands of years,, and that my universe has many life forms scattered around the galaxy, some advanced with noble intentions and some not. I theorize that the more we understand about the nature of reality, the more we can pierce any subject that we might have interest in. It's all on how you tackle the question.
But if I had to give one reason why knowing if the sun can be seen from space, and if the earth is round , it's because It just feels like a bigger room.
Well there's the rub, and the point of my post.
All this search for knowledge, as your wife stated, is a distraction from practical, day to day needs and 'being present in the present.' And upthread, you talked of people's limited capacity to absorb shocks. I am with Ruffian, people will cope fine on an emotional level, but ok, it's open to debate.
So I was mooting, what if humanity is suddenly thrown out of its comfort zone, out of its bubble, by being confronted with reports and pictures of ancient ruins, and possibly even ETs, in Antarctica? That hitherto maddening circular journey of endeavour for knowledge that we here have gone through, has at least given us the opportunity to become good skeptics along the way, which is a discipline that can be learned and refined. Simply to have been a goldbug in the aftermath of 2008, has been an exercise in watching one's convictions becoming an act of self immolation. What do we really know? What did we learn along the way? Oh, plenty!
I, you, we, have the ability, even if we do not use it, to see newly released pics of ancient cities, and immediately consider that this is disinfo, and to look at what the conjurer's other hand is doing. But what will the majority of humanity be doing?
Believe me, I am so excited to consider that there are ruins on Antarctica, but that part of me is over-ruled by the more sober side. Whether the ruins if reported, are real or not, is to be put aside. Because for sure, the conjurer's other hand will seize the opportunity to go to work regardless, and humanity will be herded where they want us yet again. That becomes the immediate issue, if such ruins are reported; the stupefyed majority are made suckers yet again. That is where our focus should be, and we should not get distracted. The question about the authenticity of ruins can wait.
Hopefully, we'll be able to avoid becoming suckers ourselves, and help raise the alarm; we'll see.
Byzantium wrote: So I was mooting, what if humanity is suddenly thrown out of its comfort zone, out of its bubble, by being confronted with reports and pictures of ancient ruins, and possibly even ETs, in Antarctica?
So I was mooting, what if humanity is suddenly thrown out of its comfort zone, out of its bubble, by being confronted with reports and pictures of ancient ruins, and possibly even ETs, in Antarctica?
This is a complicated topic. Not about Antarctica, ET's or even the price of Gold. It's the question of how do you know? How do you know which version of the story to choose in anything. On all the above, there are multiple scenario's floating around that all seem logical. You can conclude different things on the facts....
Your above statement wouldn't be proof enough that ruins or ET's exist. I can't think of any subject where media, which is by nature pushing a bias, main or alternative, can show us truth. My believes on these subjects do not come from media reports. alot of it is candy with empty calories. It's why I don't put too many links but from time to time they are useful.
How does anybody here reading our discussion know if I am correct or you're side is correct on the ability of humanity to handle this information? I did not bother supporting it with any psychological studies (although I have a few I could throw out) but that's alot of effort for hypothetical. But no better from your side. Just two sides making different assertions and postulates. You did say that by withholding evidence that would be like the middle ages. That was sort of analogy and didnt' speak to the question. But minds are made up about it? Probably people have drawn conclusions on ET's, Antartica, the financial collapse etc.... Ruffian said that people do it all the time but never got specific. Maybe she is right but how do I know? How do you know? Do you know what examples she was thinking of?
Here are two thoughtful articles and ways to see if information is real or fake.
This is where I am supposed to write a convincing conclusion on the proper way to arrive at the answer. And it's a question I've been working on. Here's my problem with logic as contained in the above posts., I've read some of Adams writing's and in my universe he comes to some dead ends on making conclusions about certain realities that I have a bit more certainty. I have more certainty on climate change than he does but he would be right in saying how do you know? And he's right in asking. In some matters, God for example, logic becomes a problem because of it's subjective nature and thus a different criteria has to be applied.
And while I have certainly spent enough time looking at some of these weird issues, I do think spending too much time on looking at ET realities has repercussions in one self. But I won't explain for now. I generally do not focus on these topics in my free time. I have enough information for now until I get the calling and a good reason to pursue more. People's motivations and reasons will differ which might make them justified to spend more time in that subject.
These new discoveries of ruins, (if there are any) are not a new thing. They find old structures off the coast of Egypt, far below the surface and blame it on earthquakes. (May be true). They do not see these places as being built by aliens.
We have visited the Petrified Forest in Az. and it is an amazing place:
There are many views as to how and why these old petrified logs are all piled up in this area. The really amazing view is of logs sticking out of sand/soil, high up on the hills. Some will say it is old alien structures but all we could see is where the logs settled after the flood.
If there is a hidden city under the ice, look for the resting place of the giants of old who did not escape the flood. My point? The evidence will be viewed as it fits into ones own belief system,even my own. I am still looking for those 30,000 bigfoots that are suppose to be in North America. jmo jim
As a side-line to the current discussion, let me offer the above short video. It’s not necessary that you be conversant with the electrical terms. Rather, just get the thrust of what he is saying regarding where “the scientific community” is at currently – and for at least the past 100 years. Some things we know in depth, but in most areas we simply have observed how things work. Electricity is one stand-out, light is another, gravity is the most obvious. We don't know shit. Yah, all the very basics of our 3D Matter experience, and we haven’t a clue~! Just a bunch of conflicting theories and they all have big holes in them to boot. That’s how we have been led down blind alleys, and I submit it’s been done wholly and totally on purpose. Classical science is a religion, and observe how all the other Religions have been fabricated by the Dark to obscure the truth of reality – Spiritual and Physical - and further to set-up mind traps and dogmas that don’t allow any further hypothesis to be offered, on the Truth. To wit; we use them (light, gravity, electricity), we measure them, and yet, we have no clue as to their real nature. Just as we have been dissuaded and mis-lead (by the Big Religions), in spiritual pursuits concerning all the foundational basics – so too have we been mis-lead in the very foundations of Physics. People have tried to explain these basics in Physics (Russell tried to explain Light – ever heard of him?? No?, I thought so…wonder why that is~!.).
Let me re-phrase this guy. In regards to the spinning vanes – when I went to school, we were taught that the black side absorbs the particles of Light and therefore the particles transferred their momentum to the vane (on the black side) and that’s what spins the vane. But, what this tattooed nut is saying is that the act of absorbance of the light wave (no momentum, no particles, and at the subatomic level) into the black paint, causes an electrical discharge that pushes against the ether, (sorta like a rocket thrust, or like opposing magnetic fields), and that is what displaces the vane. That actually makes sense. You gotta like this guy, especially if all the other theories leave you vacant. So my dear Theoria, can you tell me what’s waving? I guess I’m gonna be occupied with this nut’s videos for a while, huh?~!
Let me git back to this later. Got stuff to do right now. (wife~!).
I think this gets down to the very core of any discussion.
I've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years not just studying this stuff, but also posting some supporting links, videos, and even occasional documentation to support particular assertions.
Admittedly, some of my links are better researched than others.
For me, it all comes down to this:
What is possible?
By exploring the work of Nicola Tesla, and exploring his brand of physics, and spirituality, a picture gets painted of possibilities that simply don't exist in mainstream thought.
I've got a basic premise for you, which I believe to be true:
Anything that the mind can conceive and believe it can achieve.
In my experience, this is a fundamental truth, and has been consistently proven by myself, in my own experience.
So if I take that basic principle and apply it to the macro scale, expanding on my own research of what is possible, a lot of stories that superficially appear to be science-fiction, not only become plausible, but become highly likely, in the way they can be used to explain real life events that most people are aware of.
In other words, and by exploring the science that explains mainstream history, and finally concluding that it is largely bogus, a lot of what we have been taught to be true doesn't only not pass the smell test, but strays far into the realm of the impossible.
Inversely, by applying particular narratives to an alternate construct of reality/spiritual principles, combined with an abundance of experimental proof, mythological references begin to hold far more plausibility then most people can except.
Over the last couple of days, I was exploring the nuanced differences between David Wilcox/Cory Goode's narratives, as opposed to the one that Steven Greer presents.
Steven Greer completely avoids the story of "malevolent" Aliens corroborating with the Nazis. This is something that has been well documented by other researchers.
My own personal take on some of these discussions, is that a lot of things that are being attributed to "aliens", are in fact, the remnants of civilizations that are indigenous to planet earth. Once you've exposed how time lines have been fabricated, and that our planet is considerably older than we have been taught, the basic premise that there can be plenty of highly intelligent civilizations who also call this planet their home, starts to make the rest of the narrative far more plausible.
So Steven Greer is allowed to speak, as long as this particularly malevolent alliance between US government agencies and extra terrestrial (or intra-terrestrial) influences is simply ignored. Also, I still strongly think he is nothing but flypaper, being used to expose and neutralize any whistleblowers that present a genuine threat to the overall agenda.
I'm working with the basic premise that whatever is possible already exists.
It's an offshoot of the quote from above, "Anything at the mind can conceive and believe it can achieve."
The carefully laid out narrative that has been presented to us for hundreds of generations is specifically designed to limit a human beings perception of what is possible. I think that particular fact is undeniable.
When story after story presents a very similar narrative, coming from otherwise reputable sources, based on a science which to me has been obviously suppressed, going from high technology of extreme antiquity, to modern-day narratives of UFOs,
An entirely different reality becomes exposed.
For me personally, a lot of this has direct application in my own life. It's not just idle conjecture.
Although I'm still working on some of the specific technological mechanisms to achieve certain goals, at least I am well aware of the specific processes that need to be achieved to accomplish certain ends.
This is no more than a process of research and experimentation at this point, since I already know full well that my objectives are achievable. It only becomes a matter of exactly how.
The spiritual aspects are far more stunning, and easily practiced. Exposing the obvious fraud that mainstream religions are based on provides actionable information that can be applied on a daily basis.
As for how this all gets applied to macro current events, the conclusion that we will be facing a paradigm shift in our immediate future doesn't take all that much research to support. Exactly how it will play out, does leave at least some room for suppositions, but the overall result is clear. Humanity is systematically being released from many of the preconceived belief systems that have held it in a mind trap.
The evil Empire appears to be in a state of collapse, although simultaneously, it still holds onto vast political power.
As false flags are thoroughly exposed, and the credibility of the current system implodes, the idea that it needs to be replaced is not all that far-fetched.
It would appear to me that the evil Empire is being undermined by powers they cannot even comprehend. Only those at the very top of the control matrix are becoming aware of the futility of attempting to maintain control.
Further down the food chain, there are lots of desperate people, doing lots of desperate things to maintain what is nothing more than an illusion.
Yes, mankind has been living under many illusions for many centuries, but large swaths of the control matrix are also living under the exact same illusions. The same way it has been self-destructive for humanity, it is now self-destructive for the control matrix.
I think a lot of this becomes undone fairly quickly after January 20, if the current course of events is allowed to proceed.
Of course, the evil ones will do everything within their rapidly diminishing power to stop what is inevitable.
So we watch.
At least it's a heck of a lot more interesting than watching the charts.
Thanks for posting that video.
It came up several times in my "suggestions", but due to time constraints, I had passed over it.
I appreciate your guidance.
Very interesting. Biggest takeaway for me (among many,) so far, has been we choose to not see the higher densities.
Boy he ain't lyin' sunshine.
Funny story. If you were to ask Ol' Dirt how that radiometer works, I would have said, "Well the electrostatic effect... yada yada yada. I'm not sure how he his telling me this is new, but hey if he wants credit, then he can have it. You know the hubris thing!??! He mentioned it, along with how good he is.
Not all LED's are made equal. They are not the same intensity. Those are crap LED's on a key chain... quality control? LOL. His big flash light is really Red green and blue, not making the frequencies he claims. It's just pure current at that point.
My BS detector went of on this guy. I get it. The only thing light really does is travel in a vacuum at the speed of light. Everything else is QED.
Ruffian, same here. Very dear friend. In the space of a month, he can't form a sentence. Tried for 2.5 hours to make coffee. I spent three hours cleaning the living room, and getting the TV to work. He has no family, or children. I have (do not want) no legal authority, and no way to really help him. Thank god the Ms. Reynolds found him at the local gas station today. I was @ work. The staff knows him, and likes him, but it is not the best part of town, on top of -20F temps the last few days. I missed a work party (oddly I wanted to go too), the day I cleaned the living room, as I fell asleep, when I got home. I was shocked how the emotional load hit me.
I've been working on breathing, more than I would like. I really have to lay in to the drumset.
Grounding is possibly becoming a necessity. Learn if you don't already know. I think I know... I try anyhow. Not sure if I am doing it right but I sleep better anyway. All in the mind I expect.
Anyhoo it looks to me as if meditation, grounding & disciplined breathing are fast becoming as good preps as beans, salt and water. They are for me anyway.
Wishing all on DOTS a very happy time with the whanau and friends. Love you guys.
Ruffian wrote: What I do know is we are bombarded with info/ data and we store it until we have a need for it or we can process it into something useful. Example: three days ago I had email communication with a woman I don't know.
What I do know is we are bombarded with info/ data and we store it until we have a need for it or we can process it into something useful. Example: three days ago I had email communication with a woman I don't know.
You are bombarded with untold billions of pieces of data that only registers in your unconscious mind. Some smart ass science figured out the number. A billion/500 million?? who knows? how did he figure that out.... As you read this, you are receiving so many pieces of information, that it would boggle your mind. Your conscious mind maybe can deal with 2 or 3 things consciously.
If too much of your unconscious information "floods" into your conscious mind, that is called psychological flooding. When a person has anxiety, they have unconscious information flooding into the body, and mind. If I step on your toe, or piss you off, what is happening is that the situation in real time is triggering strings of memories from the past. You could call these traumatic patterns. So when somebody says you are pushing my buttons, what they are saying, they are the effect of unconscious/hidden patterns that trigger unwanted emotional responses.
Now all of us have some form of amnesia. Things we have buried deep into the unconscious and when the light comes into us (not the sunlight) and it's time, those pockets of darkness release and get filled with the light.
The realities of ET's represents a form of mass amnesia. That's different than mass suppression. Abguy, Mr. Fix, Ag and Byz, seem to know about these realities despite the suppression?? Yeah? So despite the suppression, something happened to them that's different than people who are trying to figure it our or worse are totally agnostic or atheist on the subject. It doesn't make them smarter. It makes them more aware at this particular level. And maybe they know, or maybe they have no idea why it is that they do not have to struggle with this particular topic. And probably each of us has a bit different map or take on it.
There is a REASON for this form of amnesia and I can't give you a reason for it. I can give you many speculative reasons for it. I've read all the books that talk about some control frequency that was put around the earth at some point where people lost their power. There might be certain memories or associations they are protecting themselves from. There are people that really know. I'm probably just in the neighborhood.
I have no freakin' idea what the effect of of such a revelation would be on humanity. I suscpect neither do any of you. Because if a bunch of us on our own journey can figure it out and I"m sure these revelations came over time and to different degree's, than none of us really know what the effects would be on society.
If any of you know about this gossimer web that took our away our superman power's than you can share that? I'd only be regurgitating what I read. Apparantly, that was humanities fall from grace.
Enough of that argument....
I want to know why you are tired Ruffian. Do you know? What casualty do you attribute to it?
There is something going on and mass fatigue. That's why I ask. I have it too during power times.
Are you one of those people that unconsciously tie into what's going on?
Grounding is not a bad idea. It's very difficult for people to learn. But if you can learn it, than you might as well begin running energy although if the tiredness is attributed to non-physical or even stress, sleep, swimming and sun is about the only thing that works.
Most people have never been in their bodies and don't know what it's like to be grounded. Imagine, most people floating two or three inches above their body unconsciously. Now that's a woo woo factoid for you to digest.
You ask a good question:
"If any of you know about this gossimer web that took away our superman power's than can you share that?"
Since we are inherently designed by our Creator to only be able to see what we believe to be true, I offer you a position I've shared on multiple occasions, spoken by the great Joseph P Farrell, who has multiple degrees on this topic, and has deeply researched it.
It will only take you two minutes, go to 29 minutes, and listen until you get to 31 minutes. It's two minutes well spent.
What is shared in those two minutes, in my opinion, and the opinion of many who have looked into it, is humanity's fall from grace.
If you take the time to listen for three more minutes, Joseph will explain the effects such aberrant beliefs have had on humanity.
Such topics aren't allowed in the company of many, but without acknowledging this catastrophic deception instilled into the human psyche, all other pursuits as to a reason why become trivial in comparison.
I've had many discussions with true believers pertaining to this particular issue, and it has become an exercise in demonstrating some seriously convoluted thinking.
I'm offering it for your consideration.
So.....I'll save ya'll the babble introduction. The entire message (for the masses), is at the end. I set the video to start at the end, time is precious here. The message; ALL the 19th century pioneers in electricity/physics knew about the ether. They claimed that's what they were studying furxrissakes. You probably never heard their names. Surprised? Who wiped them out of the text books? I'm just gonna spit-ball here;.......someone that didn't want the true nature of reality discovered.
If any of you know about this Gossamer web that took our away our superman power's than you can share that? I'd only be regurgitating what I read. Apparently, that was humanities fall from grace.
O my O my . Humanities “Fall From Grace”. I frkn luv that. Such a typical pschopathological meme. The psychopath always blames the victim. Eg. , on rape;’’ It was her fault, she asked for it”. Humanity didn’t do ANYTHING wrong, we were just seeking to ascend (gain knowledge) by “eating from the tree of knowledge”. That’s our purpose in existence. How exactly is that wrong?? Except to those who intend to keep us ignorant. So, to disguise what they did, they blamed it, (the Web), on us, and son-of-a-gun lookee here, how amazing, ALL the big religions are based on guilt. Whatta co-incidence , huh~!??? How much longer are the sheeple gonna buy-into that guilt trip, for what they never did in the first place???
Humanity did not fall from Grace. We were separated from wisdom/memory/knowledge/Grace/long lives, by the Annunaki. It’s in all the damn literatures. They did that to enslave us, to keep us bumping-up against the glass ceiling……forever. We are their food source. Our ignorance and miseries are their food source, or rather the energies we emit ( most most most especially the energies of the very young. Ooooooow how they luv those sweet tender young energies - like we like tender young cows~!!), when we are in misery or in love or in sex – in other words our highest emotions. OBTW, they really do not like us to be in a ‘spiritual’ state, such as prayer and meditation. That’s when we become ‘useless eaters’ to them, because in those states we are actually in control of our energies and emotions, and furthermore we start to see beyond the veil. Getting control of yur own energies is not beneficial to them. It cuts off their food/energy source. See?
I gotta meditate now, catch ya'll later.............................