The Satanic ...
by Mr. Fix
The above is a simple copy and paste of one of the choices we have in forums, and although I genuinely don't give a crap what people think when they see this, it has occurred to me that it might be stifling discussion on this thread.
I tend to agree with Foggyroad in that some people could get the wrong impression.....
Seems that the general mantra is; if you are introduced to Christ and do not accept the offer, you go to hell, if you accept and repent sins and such, you go to heaven. Looks good at first glance.
And then you throw in a few; what ifs:
What if, the person who introduced you Christ was not a very articulate teacher, what if you were put off by his halitosis? What if you had a really bad hangover that day and were not very receptive? What if you had just found out that your wife was having an affair with the priest?
So, take up rate would be pretty hit and miss given all these variables. Well hang on a bit... surely God is fair and just and would not send folk to hell without a reasonably fair chance, she would give us ALL the exact same chance? Sending us each the right messenger at the exact right time to influence us according to our individual life experiences and needs?
Hmmm sounds fair. Just a tiny wrinkle. Surely we were made by god and god knows exactly what makes each individual tick and as such, and will get the comms smack on right. Therefore getting everyone to convert to her way and we all live happily ever after! - yes but what about those who never took up the cross? Did god get to them on the wrong day, or put them with the wrong teacher? An omnipotent god would surely not send folk to hell for eternity because she forgot about the stag do the night before and Billy was grumpy? So if folk do not convert is god fallable?
Well what about all those other denominations. They splintered off because they believed something different. Are they ALL going to heaven? If so then there are obviously many routes. If not then there is an aloof separation from the vast majority of the population of this planet; me and my flock are going up and the rest of you (insert putt down here) are going down.
And talking about denominations: Are nearly ALL Chinese going down; what about the Muslims? Surely the part of the world we were born in should not affect our chances of escaping the torture and fire for eternity?
So.... it seems pretty self evident to me, that the are a thousand different ways to get to heaven. Indeed, one does not even need to belong to a "recognized" group to qualify. One can be more spiritual as a sole operator than in a splinter group.
It seems to me that: accepting of others, tolerance and forgiveness, not taking others stuff is a general rule of thumb. A general feeling of optimism of coming together, to share.
(which lines up for a later discussion (Steph this may be a good one for your Friday slot) Collectivism v Individualism. - I used to firmly believe in Ayan Rand and individualism. Yet I an moving slightly toward a more collective lean. Many species do very well for the greater good. Bees for example, ants, wolves, lions and on. People often do better in groups. Yet collectivism is completely wasteful.....Individuals often selfish and distructful, this is a massive topic - another time).
Which brings me, eventually to our child abuser of earlier. Why did god create such a fiend? Is this person mentally ill? Well surely god gave that person this mental illness? Why would god do that? To test our resolve? To check to see if we would would hate him and beat him or embrace and forgive him? Why would god need to test us if he is responsible for every neuron fired across every synaptic gap anyway, not exactly a test, he knows the outcome as he is the master programmer of everything.
Which then leads onto free will. If god controls everything then we are responsible for nothing. Nobody is actually innocent or guilty of anything, god made me do it! This then make heaven and hell a mute point.
So we must go down the... god created everything and then went away for a much needed rest. We now have free will; which is interesting, because, if he created the perfect world paradise for us to live in; then why have we changed it beyond all recognition. We just destroy gods paradise every single minute of every day. We are all now toxic from the chemical revolution, nuclear waste leaks into the sea. Maybe billions on mind altering antidepressants and such. Coveting wealth above anything else. Worshipping false idols and such.
But this leads us back to the unfairness of heaven and hell thing? If God ran off and left us to all the variables, then those who get the right message at the right time with the minimum abuse as a choir boy on his knees, is purely good luck!
And back to the kiddy botherer. So... we can sit in heaven and be smug that the kiddy botherer is frying in hell. Which in and of itself, suggests that someone who got into heaven is full of hate and self righteousness. Now...what if god forgave the perve and he is sitting next to you in heaven? Do you cry foul and demand to see his confession? Are you not dictating to god, how god ought to be?
So is heaven an elite crowd? Will you still be you there, occupying your physical body?
And spiritual as I may claim to be. If I saw the perve interfering with some child, I would have no hesitation to end his life on the spot. For the greater good. So where does that leave me? Protector of children of murderer? I would like to say I would attempt to understand and give counsel but my reptilian brain would no doubt dominate that crucial 30 seconds.
Things which bring us together = good. Things that separate, judge, aloof, ego = bad.
As for evil: It is ego finding expression in the gaps created when despair and lacking and greed dominate.
Your Satanic link above does not work.
When I click it, it brings me back to the same page. I think it's supposed to do that.
Where did you think it was going to take you?
By the way, I just read your post, and it is most excellent.
Your suggestion on a topic such as “individualism versus collectivism” is an excellent idea, a topic that I would fully engage in. Quite frankly, all of the religious grandiosity is wearing thin.
Seeing as you have a brain that works on logic, I am wondering what would influence you to start wandering towards the “collectivism” side of the aisle, since I would by nature be advocating for “individualism”.
I see no reason why we couldn't start such a topic right here and now.
Been a long day, tired. Please disregard.
Too tired tonight Fix. But I have been wrestling with it a bit lately. See if Steph launches, if not we can mind meld tomorrow.
I was curious as to whether you would like to entertain your “collectivism versus individualism”.
Just to play fair, I am tired too.
Message received, that's fine, tomorrow's another day.
Nothing left for me to do but close my eyes and dream.
Have a nice night.