You wrote: "The point is, now you are choosing which Scriptures you wish to abide by, and which ones you choose to discard."
How many ways do I need to explain that there are two types of Christians, those that are solely Bible-based (Protestants) and those that follow church history and the continuing revelation of the saints (Catholics/Anglicans)?
It is NOT cherry-picking when in MY variation of Christian faith, all I need to believe in is the Apostles' Creed - that is the ESSENCE of the faith. I am not a Bible-worshipper!
Furthermore, there are also Bible-based Christians who have argued for women ministers so there is an interpretation issue at hand. For example, this female evangelist basically runs down an entire list of women preachers and prophets in the Bible in the video on this page:
It's funny, you take issue with the fundamentalist doctrine of the evangelical branch of the Christian faith, and when I try to explain to you that the Christian faith is diverse and can encompass may different perspectives under the big tent of "Jesus is My Savior," you come back to this sort of black and white nitpicking as a way to keep discrediting it and what I'm saying. What gives?
Jesus is big enough to allow for disagreements in theology and doctrine - quit putting Him into a box like that. You claim you aren't about boxes but keep doing a great job boxing in Jesus.
PS Will have to comment on the rest later.
Welcome to the conversation, but your definition of discernment clearly states judgment or appraisal by a person, and as far as I can tell, everyone here has been discerning these issues from their own perspective for a very long time. We are simply sharing the conclusions we have drawn with our discernment.
Now if discernment can only be defined as biblical adherence, that is not discernment, it is blind obedience.
There is a difference.
So are you suggesting that some people posting here are being outright influenced by evil, or that they are being misled by evil? I've already commented that I think some New Age channeled material is from demonic origins and shared some info above about David Icke's possibly being misled as well. FWIW, I think a lot of this Oneness stuff is a lot of feel-good hooey that makes people self-focus instead of turning to God, so yes, that's probably some bad juju there. :-)
NWV, I think you know where I stand with regard to taking money that should be spent feeding the poor and building monuments to Man's Vanity, I like Cathedrals not for their Spiritual value because they are not in mho imbued with any Godly virtue, I admire them from an historic, artistic, sense.
My temple is within My chest, my Heart is where Jesus Christ resides, in a temple not built with Hands.
I commune with the Lord, wherever my knee touches the ground.
Nice analogy Stephanie,
I was simply taking him out of the box that you put him in.
Just for the fun of it, the “apostles Creed”, is also known as the Nicene Creed, which was pounded out by a consensus of those who attended the Council of Nicaea, in the third century A.D.
This is exactly where Christian doctrine was either accepted, or rejected by the same religious and political authorities. The Nicene Creed became official doctrine, and questioning it or holding any belief contrary to it as many Christians did was punishable by death. The Vatican and the Roman Army had little trouble enforcing this particular edict throughout known civilization of that time.
You seem to be under the impression that somehow I was impugning or lowering the role of Jesus Christ, quite to the contrary, as we actually have no disagreement whatsoever as to the nature of Jesus Christ.
Our disagreement is in the nature of humanity.
Yes, I know where the Apostles' Creed came from and why they created it - no-one could read back then and the average person did not have a Bible. It's basically a form of Christian crib notes.
On discernment: Please take some time and listen to that Russ Dizdar interview if you can. I wonder if it is going to rub you the wrong way, but I'd be curious as to your reaction. Dizdar is a guy who has learned how to detect demonic attachments on people. This is one form of "discernment" by the Holy Spirit, and it is more of a "fringe" charismatic practice than a mainstream Christian practice. But it not "blind obedience" as you say.
The fact that you keep bringing up things like "blind obedience" - as if Christians were mindless drones - would probably inspire one of those charismatic Christians to suggest you have a "stronghold" of rebellion or a rebellious spirit attached to you. The spirit of rebellion says that you don't need God and can do everything on your own.
A lot of people have strongholds and spirits if you buy into this worldview, so it's not uncommon or makes you strange or anything if you happen to have some strongholds. However, it is a good idea to get clear of them if you can. (Of course, that takes surrender to God.) :-)
Collective consciousness ate from the tree of knowledge (it wanted to know).
As such it needed to become individual ego... and only then did it realize it was naked. Ie, had become a separate entity unto itself and was no longer in heaven.
The trick is to experience and remember who we really are.
Talking about sin,,,,, it probably has something to do with.... did human ego drive one away from true self?
The commandments are an easy 10 list. All involve ego self taking control. So perhaps in this sense we are borne out of sin. However, it is nothing the individual needs to be forgiven for. Nor is there a tally card do decide if we re enter the consciousness. No, the judgment is immediate and now and keeps us separate from true self.
Buddhist lack of attachment thing has its roots in ego. Only ego wishes to posses, covert, own. However, with this comes fear of loss. Not just of material things, but status and such. In other words if one loses attachment to things, one loses fear of loss. Ie, all fear. The complete absence of fear leaves only pure love. Which is close to real conscious self, read heaven.
Therefore lack of attachment = no ego = no fear = pure love = god.
Jung talked about peak experience. As did RW Emerson, Walt Whitman, and that author Steph was talking about.
I suspect Icke had his, as did many other using iawaska (sp). However, my gnosis was very similar to all these and I was taking nothing.
thanks for the Kudos Fix. You will not have heard it like this before, it is my original work. I was actually thinking of writing a book "I Laptop ?" A spiritual journey!
Months ago, I broke down the apostles Creed, line by line, but when I went to search for it in the comments, I just noticed that I have 259 pages of posts to go through.
Is there any way to narrow that search?
Otherwise, I'm covering a lot of ground that I've been through before, many times.
Interesting you should bring that up, especially in the context of the “board certified” one.
Yes, I am inferring that a blind allegiance to biblical doctrine in that assuming it is the one and only proper way to worship God is very analogous to accepting the precepts of the American Medical Association, and then impugning every other possible source of information.
“Board certification” is quite analogous to “ordination” in that you have accepted wholeheartedly everything you've been taught.
I on the other hand, freely admit that I've been “cherry picking”. That by definition is not blind obedience.
Now back to “the apostles Creed”. Of course there is a official Christian explanation for it, but then, why would it be necessary to slaughter those that don't agree with it? They considered themselves Christians also.
I disagree with the assertion that people couldn't read back then, the Gnostic Gospels had already been written down, and widely circulated. If some of them hadn't been buried in sealed clay jars, and not discovered for something like 1500 years, we wouldn't even know about them.
Not knowing about them was the intention, not just making it easy for people who couldn't read.
Months ago, I broke down the apostles Creed...
Here's why. I can give you every rational explanation against Christianity and in favor of Gnosticism etc. because I've been there and done that already. I get it. I know it all. I used to be an apostate myself. I owned a copy of Elaine Pagels' Gnostic Gospels, and The Chalice and the Blade. I know all about the way the Bible was put together, the Gnostics, the supposed references to reincarnation taken out of the Bible, the alleged patriarchal destruction of the earth mother religions, and the co-opting of pagan holidays into Christian ones.
It doesn't matter to me anymore.
I was sitting one day and meditating and a quiet voice in my head told me to return to Christ. I was called. Since then I have met Christ in meditation and mostly he does things like wash my feet and comfort me and heal me. What the heck do I care what the Nicene Council did almost 2,000 years ago? Guess what? Christ hasn't given any revelation to totally change it so most of it is probably right.
We can argue intellectually all you want about it. But I went through a big examination of Christianity when I started going back to church: Was Jesus for real? Was he just another crazy cult leader? Why should I follow him?
Drop all the historical objections and look into your heart, and that's where the answer is.
Now, I may disagree with someone like NW VIEW on some doctrinal issues, but I get his heart. The thing is, what ultimately convinced me about Jesus wasn't anything logical, nor did intellectually trying to sort through all the good, the bad, and the ugly in regards to church history help. I just saw person after person transformed by Jesus in a way that no-one else has done.
All I know is: Jesus in my life has softened my heart and made me a better person.
All this hoo-ha about the past misdeeds of the Catholic Church is just a whole lotta noise that is designed to keep people away from Christ. Yes, I get it. Crusades, heresies, witch burnings, conspiracies, etc. etc. Blah blah blah! Guess what? Christians are sinners! No kidding they screwed up! Let's move on!
To throw away church because of that would be like saying that just because I believe the Illuminati has taken over the American government at the top, that I cannot enjoy my local library or still love what America stands for. Or fight for America.
All of that historical crap you and Bugzy keep bringing up about the Catholic Church is totally irrelevant to the truth of Christ and what he does in people's lives - besides, the Catholic Church is not monolithically bad. I am not a black and white thinker and it's just throwing the baby out with the bathwater to focus on some murky, uncorroborated YouTube Jesuit conspiracy video while ignoring all the good that Mother Theresa did.
I'm not even a Catholic but boy do I get tired of all the Catholic bashing that goes on. Some Christians are way guilty of it too. We have bigger things we need to be fighting.
I truly hope one day you "get" what I'm saying. But your heart needs to be open to it.
& it would be wonderful to be a part of your visionary work!...I would love to do the illustrations!!!...
Bag Of Gold
Not knowing about them was the intention, not just making it easy for people who couldn't read.
But if you ARE going to keep bringing up history, at least get it right! Prior to the Gutenberg Press, books were extremely rare and most spiritual traditions were handed down and shared orally. Including the Gnostic materials. Your average person prior to the Gutenberg Press could not read nor did they own expensive, hard-to-produce books or scrolls. Please get your facts straight.
I think a computer can be used to explain a lot of what's going on, there are so many analogies that fit.
as far as I'm concerned, your book would be just as “inspired by God” as any other.
About six months ago, I posted “The Gospel according to Mr. Fix”,
I wish I could find it, it was great!
silver for you thimble when you look NW!
Obviously, the invention of the Gutenberg press made printing Bibles in massive quantities possible, that is not in dispute. The fact that written literature was rare prior to that is also not in dispute.
What is in dispute, is why only one version was permitted to go to press, while all others were either destroyed, or suppressed under penalty of death. If “the truth” was so self evident, why would it be necessary to slaughter those who believe otherwise? It sounds like a control trip to me.
It's as relevant today as it was back then, because Western society is now being told what to think, and how to think it, or you will be labeled (insert your own derogatory term here).
It's happening again.
yeah so I woke up in the mornin' and I had to clean up all these tables, thrown around, casino chips everywhere, temple stones cracked, puke, blood, and guts; the mosaic, not tile.
from what I know Jesus kept sharp tools.
My daughter just had to compose an essay describing herself on a college application, sometimes she comes up with the neatest things.
An admissions counselor has already given her a “100% guarantee” that she would be admitted, but she still has to file some of the “required paperwork”. Although this is in actuality just a formality, she just wrote this out while we were having our little “discussion”.
I wouldn't trade my daughter for anyone in the world, and I offer up as a prime example of what happens when you are raised with a belief system that isn't based on dogma, fear or shame. This is a rough draft, she will go to the trouble of editing it over the next couple of days. But I think you'll get the gist of it:
The separation of the body and the mind in Western culture is detrimental to human growth. I believe we need to take care of our minds just as much as our bodies. In eastern cultures, the body and the mind are seen as one entity. I personally cannot see human beings any other way.
An American doctor may have a depressed patient who is seeking help. The doctor will prescribe anti-depressant medication to “fix the chemical imbalance” in this person’s skull. I see the mind as something much greater. The fact that the human mind can alter the chemistry in our body just from sad thoughts is something beautiful. All antidepressants would do is treat the symptoms and not find a cure. For the rest of this patient’s life, they will be addicted to anti-depressants. As soon as they stop taking them, they will once more be depressed. I have a simple solution, which is quite apparent to me. If these sad thoughts alter chemistry, couldn’t light thoughts change chemistry just by consciously thinking? Get to the root of the problem. The patient should explore why they are feeling depressed. What is causing it? If you find what is causing it, and change it, or simply change your perspective on a situation, you are cured.
I believe the difference between the two cultures, and their view of the body and mind, stems from their philosophical origins. In the West, man and God are separated. In the East, man and God are one. I believe I am connected to a higher power, and this shapes my reality.
I love to create. I love the fact that I have the ability to create. If I set my mind to accomplish something, I can do it. I have the capability to exhibit tenacity just by simply thinking of it. I can construct anything from a giant mural of a face to a car that is propelled by a measuring tape. Every human being has this super power if they would just use it, but I cannot be stifled. Creating is a vast outlet for me, with infinite possibility. I crave it like a plant needs water. Just like we take care of our bodies, we need to take care of our minds, and creativity does this for me. There is a spiritual solution to every problem.
Spirituality is a big part of my life. It is what keeps the mind healthy, for we are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. By doing things that cause me content, I am only making my mind stronger. If I am unhappy, I am wrong and need to solve my problem without compromising the happiness of others for the sake of mine.
My life was changed right before my eyes as I changed my thoughts. I believe that everyone’s reality is determined by their beliefs, or their core values. With this basic principle at the back of my head throughout every day, I began to see reality shift. I understood why people would make certain decisions; their core beliefs are different than mine, and in turn their actions and reality. I can see another person’s perspective because I now understand one exists. This has helped me flourish as a person. My actions are more towards perfecting my reality rather than fitting into someone else’s.
they say the darndest things.
Sometimes monuments are needed. Human made. But what about E.T. made?
Evil can be E.T.
I think that's why we went nuclear.
With your interpretation of God and Jesus etc Steph. That is your stuff and if it works for you, great.
I do however take issue in blaming lack of Christianity on todays problems or saying that we got to where we are because of faith in Jesus dying on the cross for our sins.
Now you are suggesting that a world full of me and Fix beliefs would be less good. I disagree.
So when you talk of history and attribute stuff to certain causes and I disagree with your cause and effect. Then getting bent out of shape because we do not have the same faith as you is not us throwing the baby out with the bath water!
You are again conflating two separate things and calling them the same. At least argue valid points and stay on point.
art in motion.