Am I the only atheist here?

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Tue, Sep 25, 2012 - 4:49am 145Bluesman
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Nick Berg

145Bluesman wrote:

hey puck,

The moooslum wants to cut your no believing in anything head off.

You will bow to the towel head's god, or they are going to chop off your noggin...thats right they are going to Nick Berg your ass.

Then after..? at least, for you,............black. nothingness. for. ever. Amen.

And at least we don't do what the rag heads do........(insert your conditioned/learned response here)

Thanks for making me look into it. Nick Berg followed the US Army into Iraq hoping to make a buck off the occupation. Perhaps he should have kept his ass home. That's a pretty good metaphor if you ask me.

The way that can be shown is not the Way
The name that can be named is not the Name
Tue, Sep 25, 2012 - 7:23pm
kingboo
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for those who think religion only starts wars

27Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

if nothing else.........it gives hope to the hopeless...

Peace
Tue, Sep 25, 2012 - 7:29pm
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@UnicycleJuggler

A man can wreak of religious education..........and know nothing of spirituality, many men of the cloth know nothing of God.........we have seen much evidence to this fact. Your religious education is irrelevant, you have proven this with your statements. To think man is the alpha and the omega is the ultimate in arrogance. With so much unknown no less.....it's arrogant and ignorant. But, then again, most humans are

Peace
Wed, Sep 26, 2012 - 12:38am kingboo
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kingboo wrote: 27Then Abraham

kingboo wrote:

27Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

if nothing else.........it gives hope to the hopeless...

When it comes to your belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, can you envision anything that will change your mind?

The way that can be shown is not the Way
The name that can be named is not the Name
Fri, Sep 28, 2012 - 11:02pm
Mr. Fix
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@ Puck T. Smith.

I've read the posts on this forum with great interest. It would appear to me that my “ideology” is in fact remarkably similar to yours, and yet I have never considered myself an atheist. Upon reading the “rules for discussion” I will have to concede that my opinion may have in fact been changed, although it may just be a matter of semantics. For me, “God” and “the universe” are one and the same. Allow me, to elaborate. I am a survivor of 12 years of Catholic school, and it has taught me anything, God has nothing to do with religion. My education was particularly harsh, since by nature, I am not a conformist. I've been told countless times by those that should know, how I will burn in hell. I personally want nothing to do with these people. Ever. I do however believe that the universe has an intelligence to it. I find the entire argument between “evolution” and “creation” a complete waste of time. It seems to me that these ideas are not in the least bit in opposition to each other. It just makes sense to me that it would be “intelligent” for the universe to have designed itself through evolution. All that is, is the only way it can be. I do believe that our soul is immortal, and that if I don't figure it all out on this particular go around, I will simply come back to learn the lessons that I could not grasp in this particular life. I know I've been here before, I remember past lives. I have many skills, in engineering, art, and music, in which I have no formal education, and yet I remember learning them. I do believe it takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it takes to be a so-called believer in any particular religion, this is a topic that I have studied in great detail, and it is in fact an ongoing process. I believe wholeheartedly that religion has done more damage to the human race than any other concept or belief. And like your “rules for discussion” clearly states right up front, true believers never make it past the first step. I have no use for blind faith. Hopefully, I can find this thread again, and maybe we can continue, with a discussion. There was a time when I would debate theology with Jehovah's Witnesses when they came and rang my doorbell, just to alleviate my own boredom. Admittedly that is a completely pointless pursuit. I do however take great interest in the general topic. It is good to meet you.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Sat, Sep 29, 2012 - 12:02am
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Mr Fix.

First I agree that these forums are a bit difficult to navigate and it is easy for old posts to slip off the radar. I haven't got an answer for that. Sorry.

As to the rest of your post, yes, we do seem to have a lot in common in our views on religion and spiritual matters. I tend to agree with your assessment of God and the Universe being one and the same, but I don't really consider myself a pantheist either, though that is the term usually used to describe such a view. I don't know if you are familiar with the Tao Te Ching, the book that is more or less the basis of Zen (and where the quote in my signature comes from). I do not consider myself a practitioner of Zen or Buddhism, but in as far as I understand them they seem to come as close as anything to describing my views. There are some elements of Sufism--again, as far as I understand it--that make sense to me as well. The bottom line is I am a mystic, but I do not believe in God--at least not the "King of the Universe" God that Jews, Christians and Muslims worship. I do not believe anyone or anything is "in charge." The Universe simply is and we simply are. Nothing made us. True faith is simply to find one's own meaning in a meaningless existence. That can seem a sort of bleak outlook, but it isn't really. Those moments--too few unfortunately--when I have stopped fighting life and simply accepted the flow of things have been the most rewarding I've ever had. It's like a tree. It does not worry about meaning and purpose, it simply grows toward the light. That's what trees do. Like the thistledown in the Alan Watts video I posted. It does not use effort--it simply rides the wind.

For me it has come down to a principle that was expressed up by the Jewish sage Hillel: what is hateful to you, do not to your neighbor--this is the whole of the Torah (Law) while the rest is commentary: go and learn it.

The way that can be shown is not the Way
The name that can be named is not the Name
Sat, Sep 29, 2012 - 12:38am
Mr. Fix
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That was Quick!

Thank you for taking the time to reply. You mentioned a few terms in your post that I am not familiar with, and although I did watch some of the videos that you posted, and find them agreeable, I need to do a few little bit more investigation. I actually find a lot to like in the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Although I was unaware of Atlas Shrugged until only a few weeks ago, I have since read a lot on objectivism. Although it is a totally atheistic philosophy, I find most of the philosophy particularly as it applies to what is right and what is wrong for the individual, true. Her arguments of course, are that collectivism is wrong for mankind, and individualism is what is right. Somewhere in the archives of “Turdville” is a forum based on an article about Ayn Rand. (I think it was "The BBC article on Ayn Rand") With in it, I got into an interesting discussion on moral relativism, a topic that I have debated on many occasions on various blogs. I was actually trying to figure out how to find that again, when I noticed that if I searched your recent entries, I could find this forum. I also noticed that you had replied to my previous post only 4 min. ago. I may be able to figure this out yet. In the meantime, I'll get back to you on any particular philosophy that you would like to discuss, but the one that I go by, is pretty much a self taught combination of things that I have learned over my lifetime. I do believe that right and wrong is a constant, and is knowable. I do not think that the universe, has any particular affinity for my wants or desires, but it does tend to reward the right actions, while punishing the wrong ones. This is simply because some actions “go with the flow of things,” while other actions tend to violate universal law. Admittedly, my philosophy is a work in progress, but I suspect that is true for you as well. This could be interesting. By the way, I often have great difficulty in articulating some of these concepts. Simply trying to learn how to put them into words that make sense is one of my goals. So some of my posts may seem somewhat scattered, it may take quite a few of them combined to extrapolate the point that it is that I am trying to make. I will however endeavor to consider your points, with an open mind, and attempt to discuss them as well as my limited ability permits. See you later.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Sat, Sep 29, 2012 - 12:51am
Mr. Fix
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I Found this...............

Hi Puck,

I went through the pages of my own history,

and I was able to find a rather recent discussion from a few weeks ago,

I also learned how to find out where I've been.

Here's a link:

https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/comment/569877#comment-569877

If you read some of the comments on each side of that particular post,

you'll quickly get the gist of what's going on there.

I hope that works,

I hate to have to paste that an entire thread onto this one.

You may need to back up to Peckerwood's question to put it in context.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Sat, Sep 29, 2012 - 2:17am
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Mr Fix.

I will take a look at that link in a few minutes, but first I want to address something you said.

"I do believe that right and wrong is a constant, and is knowable."

Absolutely. It was taught to me as a child, and I'm pretty sure they taught it to you as well:

1) Don't hit people (violence never solves anything)

2) Don't lie

3) Don't take other people's stuff

It's really that simple. If we all lived like that the world would be a much better place. For the most part kids get it, those that have not been violently abused. The problem is after learning those simple rules kids are subject to 12 or more years of all the exceptions

1) Unless you are a soldier or a cop

2) Unless it is to prevent a panic or for national security

3) Unless you call it taxation or monetary policy

We are taught the rules and then we learn that they only apply to us, not to our "leaders." They get to break all the rules that would send us to prison. It's why most people are so confused and have no solid foundation to make judgments when confronted by the inevitable problems of life.

This video, while a bit crude and unfocused, sums it up pretty well.

Video unavailable
The way that can be shown is not the Way
The name that can be named is not the Name
Sat, Sep 29, 2012 - 2:34am Puck Smith
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Puck:

A little while ago, I went to your blog, and I enjoyed it very much. That particular list, is something that I read with great interest, and I have seen it before. When you go to that link that I supplied, you will find that it turned into a discussion on moral relativism, which is currently being used to destroy anything that resembles a moral code in humans. That list that you just provided to this discussion demonstrates it in a much more abbreviated version then I could have come up with out of my own head. Much of what we discussed here I tend to commit to memory, that so in the future I will able to discuss it more effectively. Unfortunately, it is now 2:32 AM my time, And I must get some sleep. I will be back over the weekend. Good night.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 8, 2012 - 10:39pm
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Excerpts from a letter to a friend:


Obviously,
this entire “God thing” will not be settled by me tonight for all of the world.
That is not my intention.
This is simply my best effort to put into words what it is that I believe in.
It is not going to be as “short and to the point” as the apostles Creed,
and when I pray, it is not quite clear and concise as Jesus Christ put it in the Lord's prayer.
Therefore,
I don't ever expect it to become a mainstream religion, or even a cult.
There is a long-standing joke amongst some closest friends and even my wife, and daughter,
that I should start my own church,
they have nicknamed it the church of "Tommytology".
I will not be able to reference chapter and verse,
as it is somewhat of a thing of my own creation.
It has evolved over the past 20 years or so,
and is admittedly a work in progress.

Here's what I've come up with so far:

Human beings are not physical entities that are somehow trying to achieve a “spiritual experience”.
We are in fact spiritual beings, temporarily, trying to have a “human experience”
I wish here and now to settle this debate between “evolution” and, “intelligent design”
it is not an either or proposition.
I believe that both are not only true, but neither could exist without the other.
I have heard it argued that denying intelligent design, is denying that it is all God's will. I have heard atheists argue that all that is is some kind of cosmic accident, or coincidence.
I have heard that such a belief would be about the same as believing the Encyclopedia Britannica was the result of an explosion at a paint factory, and that somehow everything that is just magically fell into place.
Everything that is is exactly the way it is supposed to be, and is the only way it can be. It leaves evidence as to how it works,
and I believe that human beings are quite capable of figuring out exactly how it all works.
(This is in sharp contrast to the nuns who told me that I simply needed to have faith in the things that I could not understand).
By nature, I do not believe in things I cannot understand.
As a very wise man once said,
“Anything the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.”
I have found that one sentence remarkably useful when it comes to the science of invention.
I have also applied it towards my understanding of God, and the universe in which we live.
The obvious, and ridiculously short answer to all this , is that they are one and the same.

The universe itself is intelligent. The universe has evolved over billions of years, by a simple process of going with what works, and avoiding what does not.
This goes a little bit further than Darwin, and his theories on evolution.
It goes back to the beginning of time itself, and since modern scientists have recently been expounding on a theory of “parallel universes”,
it is most certainly a possibility that this process goes back many trillions as opposed to simply billions of years.
Just as this is not the only universe in existence, (all of those parallel ones have to be somewhere), to say that the universal intelligence began with the big bang, may be cutting off many other possibilities.
None of which would invalidate this particular belief of mine.
In the end, the universe has organized itself in the only way it could.
Now, let me explain how this universal intelligent works.
Do you remember when Einstein claimed that “nothing can travel faster than the speed of light”?
Oops,
I'd say he goofed on that one.
Modern science has already come up with the concepts of “dark energy” and “dark matter” as a tool to explain why we do not seem to be able to measure 90% of the mass of our visible universe. They use “dark matter" to explain why constellations revolve the way they do,
and they use “dark energy” to explain why constellations are accelerating away from each other.
I have come to the conclusion that there is something that travels faster than the speed of light.
As a matter of fact, I see no reason why the light itself could not travel faster than light, and
of course, if it did we would not be able to see it anymore and therefore it would not be light.
The point that I am trying to make, is that simply because we have no way of measuring something that can travel faster than light,
does not mean that it doesn't exist. It simply means we can't measure.
I believe that consciousness itself permeates the entire universe in this particular medium that we have yet to measure, but we do know at least in theory that it probably exists.
I say this with considerably more certainty than most academics.
We do not just simply live in the universe,
even as individuals we are all part of this universe.
Consciousness transcends both birth and death.
I believe that history's great scientists have been completely incapable of applying theories of “quantum physics” to theories of general relativity
simply because they refused to acknowledge the possibility of an universal intelligence,
and they have as of yet not been able to figure out how to tap into that.
Not only does the human mind tap into the universal intelligence,
it does not function at all without it.

Okay, that is the basic premise of where I am coming from as far as my “spirituality” or a belief in a higher power.
Now for the practical applications part:

I have drawn in my own mind, many practical parallels between what I believe, and what is stated in the Bible, or more particularly, what is stated by Jesus Christ.

To start with, I use the word “God” and the phrase “universal intelligence” interchangeably.

I believe that human beings have been gifted with an intelligence capable of grasping these concepts, and that by working with them, it becomes fairly easy to determine what is “right” and “wrong”

Doing the right thing, is simply a matter of doing things in harmony with the way the universe works.
Doing the wrong thing, not only denies this fact, but places the denier in direct opposition with how the universe works,
and the universe itself will ascribe a “punishment” until the actions of an individual, or society as a whole become more in line with the way things have to work.
Even having a firm belief system in no way changes the way the universe works. It must be discovered.
In my journey, I have also discovered that the universe keeps placing in our path the lessons we need to learn unfilled we learn them. So it is fairly easy to figure out whether something has been learned or not, as a matter of fact it only takes a very short amount of time for confirmation. The universe also supplies a teacher, as soon as the student is ready to learn. So, “figuring all of this stuff out”, really is not all that difficult.

To be continued shortly.............

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 8, 2012 - 10:44pm
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(Letter to a friend part 2)

To continue:

As far as the Bible is concerned, admittedly, I do not take it as the " one and only”, “true word of God”. The Bible as it is currently composed, is a carefully edited version of many books written by authors from our ancient past.

Many books were deleted over the years, because if for no other reason, “it did not serve the churches purpose to leave them there” not only have I read the Bible,

I also have read books written by the apostle Thomas, by Mary Magdalene, by Judas, and many other ancient writings that go back much further, but for now, we will simply focus on the life of Jesus Christ.

A lot of “church doctrine” has nothing to do with the Bible, in fact, a lot that was written by people who knew Jesus Christ strongly contradicts teachings by the Catholic Church, the one that I am most familiar with, and the one that I have come to believe is nothing more then another empire of evil.

Just as governments eventually exist for the sole purpose of continuing their own existence, the vast majority of organized religions exist for exactly the same reason.

I have come to believe that Jesus Christ was not a believer in organized religion. I also believe that he would be appalled at all of the things that are now being done in “his name”.

Much in the same way the founding fathers would be completely appalled at what is passing for law in our country today.

What Jesus Christ said and did has been wildly corrupted.

What our founding fathers created in the Constitution, and it's Bill of Rights, has been obliterated for all practical purposes.

Therefore, there does not need to be any separation between church and state,

In my mind, they are both there to destroy human initiative, individual freedom, and all that is good.

They have replaced those things, with a set of doctrines, and laws, designed for the “greater good”. They are there to promote a collective.

A collective by nature, must eventually do you golf into a police state. It's the only way to hold it all together.

What is coming in the very near future, will be “biblical” in nature. When I proposed the analogy of Sodom and Gomorrah,

That was with the intention of explaining that so many people are now in complete opposition to the way the universe works, that when the system collapses, many people, in fact I believe the vast majority will not know how to function, and will at some point cease to exist. This process, is a cleansing that our society is in desperate need of. Of course, you will be able to find many parallels to this foretold in revelations. I strongly suspect that human nature is now pretty much what it was then when those words were written, and even thousands of years ago, the times that we live in today were somewhat predictable.

Just as the vast majority of people today have no idea what's coming right around the corner, never mind, knowing how to deal with it, will be utterly unprepared.

“History doesn't necessarily repeat itself, but it often rhymes”'
The few that saw this coming thousands of years ago, are probably some of the same people that see it coming now.

Like I said before, I've been here before, but I am not the only one, there are very many of us.

You told me in a previous letter, that you had spent the past 10 years putting together your well informed portrayal of what is about to occur.

Interestingly enough so have I.(Just ask my wife). Although we have drawn our conclusions into entirely separate ways,

Using to a huge extent, entirely different sources of information, we have reached nearly identical conclusions about what is about to happen.

Objectively speaking, of course, I see little difference between our different philosophies.

The entire argument of who is, or is not a “believer” is not particularly relevant anymore.

In my opinion, the battle over “whose God is the one true God” has killed more people than any other cause in history.

And then, there's nationalism, which simply stated “my country is better than your country” is virtually the same argument, and has also killed millions of people.

And then there is the incredibly naïve left versus right debate going on right now, which says something like “my party is better than your party”

This particular diversion, has gone a long way towards distracting the population to the point where when the shit hits the fan, they will be utterly incapable of grasping why..

Mr. Fix.
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Tue, Feb 5, 2013 - 11:45pm
Urban Roman
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Nah you're not the only one

But the funny thing is, you look a lot like a Druid I know. An Archdruid.

Keep on keepin' on.

Tue, Feb 12, 2013 - 10:43am
Urban Roman
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I'm just going to put this here

Because I'm pretty sure it would just be moderated away on Main Street.

Thu, Feb 28, 2013 - 9:38pm
atarangi
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The Bible is a bunch of plagiarised stories - -

Great discussion on this forum. I have quickly skipped through but will read more thoroughly later. It appears that Puck and Fix have arrived at the same thinking as myself. I too have never been a conformist. - Religion is a cunning control system devised by greedy people, who know how to exploit collectivist ignorance. The whole evolution/ creation debate is all garbage. God is the creative spiritual structural system that permeates all matter. This actual system is the foundation of our own body and mind. Without it we could not exist. Evolution is an integral part of this creative system. It is a massive vibrational harmonic system that constantly seeks balance and perfection.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb

Thu, Feb 28, 2013 - 10:04pm
Mr. Fix
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@ atarangi

Thank you for your post, and welcome to our club.

your explanation of “God” was extraordinarily simple, and well said.

You summed up my many paragraphs in two simple sentences!

I appreciate that, I do need to learn how to get to the point.

By the way, I completely agree with your conclusions.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Thu, Feb 28, 2013 - 10:29pm
atarangi
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@ Fix it - - -

Actually I admire your complex articulation and wide spectrum of knowledge. I am just a simple person with a desire for truth - without truth and enlightenment we have thrown away our life - a mere pawn in someone else's game. I must say I was blown away by the clarity in your writing and impressed by the way you have arrived at your elegant answers. Namely by listening to your own heart and soul and not being swayed by corrupt conditioning. To be quite honest the wisdom I have seen here today on this forum has taken me by surprise.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb

Thu, Feb 28, 2013 - 10:38pm
Mr. Fix
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atarangi

Thank you for expressing your appreciation of my writing style and my conclusions,

although I have no formal training, I guess you could say I have a doctorate at the “school of hard knocks”.

Ironically, I'm not even all that interested in the precious metals anymore, let's just say that was a phase I went through years ago. I haven't added to my stash in a couple of years now, but the learning continues on a daily basis.

I guess I just enjoy the companionship when hanging out with like-minded people that tend to frequent this site.

It's nice to explore so many topics that are completely out of the mainstream, and then be able to discuss it with other people.

Gotta love this place!

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Thu, Mar 7, 2013 - 2:50am
atarangi
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Our purpose - -

The metals have become a little boring. Life itself is such a wonderful thing. It is important to keep things in perspective. I think the thing I love the most is when people think for themselves. The normal routine is for people to follow an ant colony like dynamic. It is only in places like this that real original people can be found. We are probably all destined to fall into a certain line. I think though that us humans can see through our destiny and become something greater than a mere number.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb

Mon, May 13, 2013 - 5:11pm
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Puck

after reviewing this thread, the term atheist doesn't seem to describe you so well. sure do wish you could come back and give us one final post! my question for you should you oblige is, 'which "faith" turned out to be the most right?'

all great works are works in progress.
randomness