Zionism - Conspiracy? Anti-Zionism - Anti-Semitism?

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Fri, Jul 25, 2014 - 9:18am
Joined: Jun 14, 2011

Message from RSA

I received this message from a brother in South Africa this morning and thought I would post it:

I feel like I weigh 500 pounds. Everyone I know feels like they are walking through water and sad. we are all so very, very sad.
This is what I know right now, today:
The ugliness, the venom and sheer, violent hatred you are seeing in Paris, London, Berlin, LA, Boston, Denver…. this is just the beginning.
We Jews are the canaries in the coal mine for all of humanity. Today, they are throwing bricks at synagogues and smashing chairs and saying “Kill the Jews.” Tomorrow it will be someone else.
Do the French really think these people will protect and safeguard the treasures of the Louvre? Do Londoners really think these people will cherish the symbols of the British Empire? Does anyone really think this is only about Israel and the disputed territories? Today it is Israel, tomorrow it will be you. Maybe that is why everyone gets so disproportionately annoyed about this conflict. Because everyone knows after us it gets real personal… Seeing these violent protests, hearing the sickening screams for death we Israelis understand better than ever we must fight for every square inch and with all we have. It matters not how much better our military is, how much more precise our targets can be. It only matters that when the smoke clears Hamas is disarmed, destroyed, disabled and defeated forever. Hamas. NOT the people of Gaza. I feel so very sorry for them. Sorry they were misguided and elected these lunatics. Sorry that in their desperation they allowed Hamas to fill the empty bedrooms next to their children’s room with rockets. Sorry that their leaders have mansions and swimming pools and are sitting in air conditioning in another city while they are sweating and wondering where the roof over their houses went. (If not their house itself.) Sorry that they have been brought up with no inkling of who Israelis are nor what compromise is. Defeating Hamas will be a big problem for the power brokers because shame and honour are all that matter in this part of the world. Honour in the Middle East does not come from whether your children are literate, how successful you are, how much money you make, how civilized your community is, nor how many paved roads you have, and whether or not you have garbage collection and recycling. Here in this part of the world- for Hamas, honour comes from getting revenge. For them revenge is everything. For them revenge is the only thing. Remember we left Gaza. There was no blockade. They were free to build a model democracy- the first successful shining, taste of the new, proud Palestine. But they didn’t want that kind of success… Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. We will not be fooled again. We have nowhere else to go. And the rockets won’t stop. The folks in Ashkelon cannot shower, have a bowel movement, get more milk or walk a dog without wondering if they are taking their lives in their own hands. There is another Gaza underneath Gaza. Hamas could have built hundred of schools, paved thousands of roads, build hundreds of kindergartens with the cement and iron they have used to build these underground bunkers and tunnels. (and you wondered why Israel put a blockade on bringing building supplies into the Gaza strip?) These tunnels to hell are filled with ammunition. And no women or children, not a single elderly person is brought to safety there. They want them on the street- on the roof, standing right behind- nice and close to the terrorist firing the rocket.Hamas has refused to let journalists out of Gaza. Why? they need them to take pictures and record the carefully staged piles of bloody children and women. If the journalists leave they have lost the vehicle for distributing their bloody ad campaign. Hamas asked for a cease-fire. and they broke it. They break every single one. Israel is setting up a massive field hospital to treat our enemies. From 8 pm on tonight there will be a working maternity ward, an operating theatre…a working hospital. For… our enemies. We are going to lose more boys. Last night we lost 13. With each day we are going to lose more. But everyone here now understands this is a fight to the death. It is them or us. They cannot compromise and they don’t want peace or to share or to negotiate. They want revenge even if it means killing their own people. So we have to go in there and do things none of us want to do, but we have to. So this is why we are all so sad. Israelis want peace so badly but we also desperately want to live. We love life and we are not about to let anyone, let alone a bunch of deranged thugs take it away from us. So yes, this is a fight to the death for both sides. Remember, if they win, you are next. If we win those symbols of civilization that everyone takes so for granted we will remain standing and everyone will criticize and complain about disproportionate responses, and war crimes, and all kinds of other irrelevant nonsense, but secretly I think everyone will be heaving a sigh of relief.

NW VIEW >>>1 Cor. 1:18
Fri, Jul 25, 2014 - 9:32pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011


Preface; when I went to post this I felt led to encourage all to read and study this post and links carefully, for what it’s worth.

With the recent events transpiring in the Middle East, and the current war going on the past couple of weeks, under what Israel calls “Protective Edge’. I thought I had better bring this up again to everyone’s attention on the possibility it may prove significant this year. I have posted on the 9th of AV before somewhere back in the thread but could not find it.

The Ninth of Av or TISHA B’ AV in Jewish history or Israel’s history is probably the darkest of days on their calendar historically, and even including the three weeks prior from 17 Tammuz.

Here is a brief history of the 9th of AV

History has shown us that Tisha B'Av is indeed a day for mourning. There are five(6) main tragedies that occurred on this day:

  1. G-d told the Children of Israel that the oldest generation would not enter the Land.
  2. The First Temple built by King Solomon was destroyed by Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BCE.
  3. The Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE.
  4. The city of Betar was captured and thousands of Jews were killed in 135 CE.
  5. The Roman emperor made a pagan temple on the site of the Temple and rebuilt Jerusalem as a pagan city in 136 CE.
  6. It has also been claimed that the Jewish expulsion from Spain in 1492 began on Tisha B'Av as well as the start of World War I.

Historical Events on 17 B'Tammuz (The three week preceding the 9th of AV)

The mourning is not exclusive to Tisha B'Av, in fact, the mourning period begins three weeks prior on the date of 17 B'Tammuz (17 day of the Jewish calendar month of Tammuz). Since the destruction of the Temple began on 17 B'Tammuz, it marks the beginning of the three-week period. We continue to mourn until Tisha B'Av when the walls of the Temple were completely destroyed. Five tragedies occurred on this day as well:

1) The first tablets containing the 10 commandments were broken by Moses.
2) Two daily sacrifices were ceased during the time of the first Temple.
3) The Romans broke through the outer walls of the second Temple.
4) The Torah was burned.
5) An idol was erected in the Temple.


If one wants to read or research this further here is another site.


That said the time period from 17 Tammuz to the 9th of AV is the time period from July 14-15th to August 4-5th 2014.

Another interesting minor Jewish feat day that falls 7 days after the 9th of AV is Tu’ B’Av.

The minor Jewish feast of Tu’ B’Av”.

Tu B'Av - the fifteenth of the month Av is a minor Jewish holiday. In modern-day Israel, it is celebrated as a holiday of love similar to Valentine's Day. It has been said to be a "great day for weddings"

A friend of Stewarts found this article below on five doves and sent it on to him.

Bruce Baber (29 June 2014)

"Watch August 11-12 during the largely forgotten festival of Tu B'Av"

Tu B’Av (the middle of the month of Av) is nightfall August 11th this year. "The Hebrew month of Av (or Menachem-Av, the consoler of Av) is the fifth of the twelve months of the Jewish calendar. The name Av literally means "father." It derives from the root which means "to will" or "to desire."

While it has been relegated to the minor festivals on the Jewish calendar, it was at one time mentioned by a number of Jewish sources as the happiest, most important celebration.

Tu B'Av has so many traditions associated with it that are parallels for the rapture. One of the most compelling is that the Jews while wandering in the desert were (according to the Midrash) commanded by Moses to sleep in their graves once each year as punishment for not believing the spies who were sent to scout out the promised land. The Jews who slept in their graves each year would arise from their graves the next day and discover that 15,000 of the older generation had died in the night. This continued to happen until all of the older generation had died off. When at the end of forty years, the dying stopped. Tu B'Av was thus celebrated because they knew that at long last they were freed from the curse of the grave and free to enter the promised land under the leadership of Joshua.

  • We all know that the name of Jesus is derived from Joshua.
  • I suspect we all are aware that there is a parallel between the promised land and Heaven. The land flowing with milk and honey.
  • Tu B'Av commemorates when all the chosen people rose from their graves alive! When no one had died in their graves thus signifying that at last they were free to enter the promised land!
  • The Jews celebrated by allowing the virgins to dress in white and dance in the vineyards to attract husbands.
  • The celebration of Tu B'Av became closely associated with courtship, marriage and the triumph of life over death.
  • After the Jews had entered the promised land, each year Tu B'Av was celebrated as one of the most important holidays. It was a time of celebration!

“(Av) It is the month of the "low point" of the Jewish calendar (the 9th of Av, the day of the sin of the spies and the destruction of both the first and second Temples in Jerusalem) as well as the month of the "high point" of the Jewish calendar (the 15th of Av--"there are no happier days for Israel than the 15th of Av and Yom HaKippurim" (Mishnah Ta'anit 26:)--the day of finding one's predestined soul-mate)."

...." Relative to all other souls of Israel, the soul of Mashiach, who comes to redeem Israel from her state of (spiritual as well as physical) exile, is like a groom to his bride. After his birth on the 9th of Av he reveals himself to his bride and betroths her on the 15th of Av."

For more on Tu B’Av, go here: https://www.templeinstitute.org/tu-bav-5771.htm


YBIC - Bruce Baber

In conclusion,

I can’t help but think the marker we saw on 4-11 with comet Hale Bopp and Hyakutake both crossing Algol is not significant in some way we yet don’t understand or can’t see.

4-11-2014 is exactly 1260 days to Rosh Hashanah 9-23-2017 and another celestial alignment described in Revelation 12:1

Interesting to note; that if one goes forward four months from the celestial marker on 4-11-14 it brings us to 8-11-2014 and the “forgotten festival of Tu B'Av” on 8-11/12-2014

This below is also worth consideration as well……Three Super moons in a Row in the summer of 2014.

Be sure to watch the video in the link below at NASA for an explanation.

This “Trinity’ of Super moons (Three of them fall on July 12th 2014, August 10th 2014 and September 9th 2014.

July 12th 2014 – Just prior to 17 B'Tammuz - July 14th -15th

August 10th 2014 just prior to Tu B'Av" - August 11th -12th

September 9th just after Rosh Hanna - September 5th – 6th


Jesus did say……

Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. John 4:35.

Worth consideration, in light of all that is going on in the ME. No?

Time will tell.

Mon, Jul 28, 2014 - 5:59pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011

Iran says ‘the end of the Zionist regime of Israel has arrived’

Iran Says The End Of Israel Has Arrived As Obama Gives Them $2.8B In Sanction Relief

The deputy commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards vowed revenge against Israel for its ongoing military incursion into Gaza, which has already killed hundreds of Palestinians and dozens of Israelis. The regime has been awarded $2.8 billion in sanctions relief by the Obama administration in return for an agreement on a four-month extension to the Geneva talks in finding a peaceful solution to its illegitimate nuclear program.

The Revolutionary Guards announced last week its first anti-radar ballistic missile, named “Hormouz 1,” and claims it can penetrate and destroy missile defense systems and could now destroy Israel’s famed Iron Dome missile defense system, as well as any Patriot missile defense system.

You [people of Israel] are trees without any roots which were planted in the Islamic lands by the British,” Brig. Gen. Hossein Salami said at this week’s Friday prayer sermon in Tehran, Fars News Agency reported. That statement referred to the Balfour Declaration, which led to the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire after World War I and the eventual creation of the state Israel in 1948.

We will chase you house to house and will take revenge for every drop of blood of our martyrs in Palestine,” Salami said. “and this is the beginning point of Islamic nations awakening for your defeat.”

The deputy commander promised that Palestine will no longer remain calm and cited a statement by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic regime: “Imam [Khomeini] with the statement that Israel must be wiped from the face of the Earth gave a true message to the world. This message enlightened the Muslims and became the concept on the streets of Syria, Lebanon and Palestine.”

Salami, recalling previous wars Israel fought against Hezbollah in Lebanon, said: “The end of the Zionist regime [Israel] has arrived. Islamic movements are armed, missiles are positioned, and today we witness how the arms of the resistance in a corner of the Islamic world are controlling the events in the face of the tragic and barbaric attack by the Zionist regime against the oppressed and defenseless Palestinians in Gaza.”

Salami blamed the U.S. and England for Israel’s policies and activities in the region and stated, “The balance of power will change to the benefit of the Islamic world, and we warn the Zionists that you are a rootless society with no land, no race, no history and no element which constitute a nation. Today, no place in the occupied land is safe for the Zionists … today the missiles of the Palestinian resistance cover much farther than the Zionists expected.”

We are confident that Allah’s promises will come true and in the end the Islamic world will be the graveyard of America and the Zionist regime’s policies along with their allies in the region. The flag of Islam will be raised,” Salami concluded.


Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee” Psalm 83:1-5

I think everyone reading in should keep a close eye on the ME, especially from now to the 9th of AV through the 15th of AV. As long as this war stays between Hamas and Israel, it is just another war, should Iran, Turkey, or Syria join in against them, we all might be looking at start of the Isaiah 17 war IMO.

Let’s all hope and pray that is not the case.

Let them all be confounded and turned back that hate Zion.” Psalm 129:5.

Tue, Jul 29, 2014 - 1:01am
Somewhere over the rainbow
Joined: Jun 14, 2011

Came across this young man,

Came across this young man, son of one of the founders of Hamas. This is just a short tv interview but feel free to click on his speeches by the side of the video on youtube.

Mosab Hassan Yousef (Son of Hamas Founder) tells the truth about Hamas.

and some background. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef

I take no sides in any of this. They are all morons

"I found a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works." - Alan Greenspan, October 2008 WTF ! Now you tell us !!!
Tue, Jul 29, 2014 - 8:11pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011

A Prophetic Covenant of Grace – Deuteronomy 29-30

Preface; when I finished this up, I saw it was 9 pages in word, I really tried to edit it down but just could not, IMO it’s just to important. If one is still struggling, trying to come to grips with this whole ‘Zionism’ issue’, spend some time on this, as well as the last couple posts on the Covenants, it will help. IMHO you don’t really want to be on the wrong side of this issue with all what appears to now be right in front of us now.

There are three aspects to the Bible or scripture, the primary, the practical and the prophetic, just like three legs on a stool, none of which are unimportant, IMO, and they are all Divinely inspired.

The primary deals with, what does the text say, in the context in which it was said, to the people it was originally given.

The practical deals with, how do those truths contained therein, pertain to one now, xx number of years removed from the original writing and declarations, or simply, how does one apply those truths and principles to one’s life, today.

The prophetic deals with the overall plan of God, the big picture, how is God working throughout human history, from His sovereign act of creation, through the fall, and then throughout all human history to accomplish His plan, the plan to ultimately redeem mankind, and end Satan’s rule of planet earth. The prophetic encompasses a total ‘world view’, so to speak, as given from the Lords perspective, and the prophetic covers 1/3 of the Bible. (This is unique to Christianity alone - Prophecy)

One may argue, what does all this matter????, if one is a Christian, let’s just live like Jesus did and love everybody, prophecy, or even doctrine (teaching) is really irrelevant and a mute point, like the post-moderns love to argue.

In a way, I can’t really argue with that statement, but that again IMO is one of those pesky half truths. We should love, yes, but Doctrine means ‘teaching’ and doctrine is important, it is inseparable from Truth. Jesus put quite an emphasis on just that, teaching or doctrine, through His sermons, parables, and just about every utterance that came out of His mouth. Doctrine - Truth…… Matters.

If doctrine wasn’t important, one could end up listening to David Icke and setting themselves directly in opposition and against the Lord (Not a good idea) as He again raises up, the current Apostate Nation of Israel in order to once again deals with them again during the coming ‘70th week of Daniel’, the ‘Time of Jacob’s trouble’ or what is often referred to as the in the NT as ‘Great Tribulation’

That said;

We looked at the Abrahamic, covenant, a few posts back, we also looked at a conditional covenant in Deuteronomy 28, lets now look at another covenant in Deuteronomy 29-30 which is really a Prophetic Covenant of Grace.

I am sure all here at least have a basic understanding of Israel’s bondage in Egypt, if not from scripture itself, then at least from the classic film starring Charlton Heston, - ‘The 10 Commandments.

Briefly; Israel was in Egyptian bondage for 430 years and they hoped God would send a deliverer to free them from the Egyptian bondage and oppression. The Lord did raise up just such a deliverer, Moses, (A foreshadow of Jesus Christ) who not only led them out of Egypt but penned the first five books of the Bible called the Pentateuch.

When Israel was finally freed, Moses brought the people, probably as many as 2 million strong to Mt. Sinai or as it is also called Mt. Horeb to receive the ‘Law of God’ as Moses was instructed to do by God Himself, you all know the story…….

What I want to look at now is the Covenant contained in Deuteronomy 29-30.

It is a couple of long chapters so for brevity’s sake I will just give you the main points of this covenant, if you wish, read them for yourself at your leisure.

Deuteronomy 29-30

These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, BESIDES THE COVENANT which he made with them in Horeb.” Deut 29:1.

If you missed that or it went over your head, go back and read that again, this is a covenant God made BESIDE the one at Horeb or Sinai, when all of Israel was gathered at the base of the mountain awaiting ‘The ‘Law’.

Here are the 7 aspects of this Covenant and yes, this one is also unconditional.

1) Israel, National Israel would be Blinded.

Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. Deut 29:4 &Romans 11:8.

Everyone read that???? …… Israel, National Israel would be blinded, supernaturally blinded collectively, from the get go. This is confirmed by Paul in the NT.. Romans 11:8

“According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this dayRomans 11:8

Israel and the Jews had to reject Messiah collectively when he came the first time that was the Lord’s plan from the start.

2) Confirm and preserve the Abrahamic covenant

“That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day: That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Deut 29:12-13.

Here is that Abrahamic covenant again, through the seed of promise, and God affirms it. It is unconditional.

3) The Gentiles are Included

Neither with YOU ONLY do I make THIS covenant and this oath; But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, (That would be Israel and the Jewish people 2 million strong No?) and also with him that is NOT HERE with US this day: Duet 29:14-15.

Let’s read that again, ………this covenant is with Israel who was standing there at the base of Sinai, that day, and it is also with him that is NOT HERE with us THIS day .

Huummmm who could that be????

It’s the Gentiles…… It’s us…….

4) Israel would be Scattered (Read Deut 28 and its curses for disobedience)

Then men shall say Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: Deut 29:25-27

Here is the curse again pertaining to the scattering of Israel from Deut 28

And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. (read; promised land – Abrahamic Covenant)

And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, (read- Apostate nations) which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt (captivity) again Deut 28:63-68a.

5) The Secret Things

The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deut 29:29 Rom & 11:25.

There are some ‘secret things’ the Lord just does not reveal to us this side of heaven, yet note closely, those things that are revealed are confirmed in scripture in the OT and in the NT as in II Peter 1:3 & I Tim 3:15 as well as other places

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:”

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus

(The only ‘scriptures’ Timothy had from ‘his youth’ was the OT ……No?)

6) The future ingathering of Israel

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from ALL the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.” Deut 30:1-5.

Hint: In case you missed it, it is not the “The Zionist” that are regathering Israel into the Promised Land, it is the Lord Himself. Read it again if you don’t believe me.

7) The Grace of God extended to Israel

“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, (Israel) and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. (Be careful here anti Israel – anti – ‘Zionist’s’…… lest you want to taste this curse with the sons of Ishmael)

And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will AGAIN rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: Deut 30:6-9. Also Read Ezekiel 36-37

Israel, National Israel was to one day be brought back up as a nation in apostasy, in the promised land, and they are about to go through a serious purging in the days ahead. If I read the scripture right only 1/3 of them actually make it into the millennium, 2 out of 6 million, before they are ‘circumcised in heart’.

In the mean time, as Deut 30:11-20 describes - Salvation until then, is a personal issue, as it always has been. Yet one day collectively, all Israel will bow the knee and cry out to the Messiah they once rejected for deliverance, and they will be delivered.

Deut 30 concludes with the sums the whole OT

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Romans 11 should now make sense and pull it all together if one has been paying attention to the last few posts……..

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? ( The Jews) God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (First ‘Christians’ were all primarily Jewish, Jewish converts)

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.(individually)

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Thou wilt say then, The branches (Israel) were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in AGAIN.

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so ALL Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Grace) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained MERCY through THIER unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen”. Romans 11, entire.

I have given all a lot of scripture here, my words can only detract from it, if you are still confused on this issue of ‘Zionism’ go back and read the last few posts again.

Fri, Aug 1, 2014 - 4:01pm
Joined: Nov 3, 2011

What is Armageddon?

Psalm 83-Isa 17

This is an interesting timely exposition laid out in a rather simple straight forward approach.

It is a good presentation and I agree with most of the positions.

Some Player's identified, I may not fully come into agreement with at this time.

On the whole it is a good presentation.

It is Simple, I like simple.



​An Interesting elder speaking about prophetic nature of the Bible, and unique nature of this Book.


Video unavailable
Sat, Aug 2, 2014 - 8:41am
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011

@ Foggy,

Anyone following this thread needs to watch the second video. Christian or non.

1000 + hat tips for finding that one; well done Foggy.

Please , if one is still confused about ‘Zionism’ and who is actually ‘Raising, up Israel’ watch this gem Foggy posted. One does not want to be on the wrong side of this issue, and set in opposition to the Lord himself.

I only wish you would have posted that sooner….. it would have saved me a lot of typing

BTW- I don’t know how to actually type, I am a two fingered wonder.

Will watch the first video you posted next and report back.

“And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. Deut 30:5-7

Sat, Aug 2, 2014 - 10:29am
Joined: Sep 30, 2012

Finally and Thank You

I was ready to quit TFMetals because of the thread that was getting out of hand until I came to this thread and watched foggyroad's video. By the way, I usually never come to these forums only the vault but I truly believe I was being guided to this thread to set me and my beliefs back on track. Thank you God

" Keep Stacking Charlie Say's Hello!! "

Sat, Aug 2, 2014 - 1:56pm Marchas45
Joined: Nov 3, 2011

Spirit Led

God Bless You, M5

​The Holy Spirit touched You, Amen.

Have Faith, I read the ending of the Story, its all good.

your friend foggy

Sat, Aug 2, 2014 - 7:52pm
Joined: Jun 14, 2011


You would actually quit this forum over a thread "gone rogue"? Are you kidding me? I don't want to see you go, and I imagine most here feel the same way.

With that said, TOUGHEN UP BUTTERCUP!!

Eric Cartman - Screw You Guys I'm Going Home
Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 1:49pm
Hiding in the lava tubes northwest of Flagstaff
Joined: Jun 22, 2011

Food for thought

Marchas, thanks for sticking around. This would be a poorer blog without you.

I have been listening tot he Israeli propaganda to support their cause for war, even killing innocents, and I am reminded of the US Civil war when Sherman marched across the south, destroying infrastructure, burning farms, and the commission of not just a few atrocities. The stated purpose of that march from Atlanta to Savannah was to break the will of the citizens to continue to support war. I am sure some real civil war buffs here know much more that I am able to read about, but posterity tends to remember such events nominally.

I sense that Israel has the same intent for Gaza and Hamas. but I suspect it will only instill a deeper hatred. No lasting peace will come of this. It sure puts the Zionists in the US in a touchy position--vowing to support Israel, but forced to embrace their tactics as they continue that support.

As a Christian, where can I stand on this issue? I have been a peripheral Zion supporter in the past, but how does one reconcile abstract theological belief with actual attacks on civilians?

So where are the members that were mucking up main street? I don't see their posts here...

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 3:32pm
Joined: Sep 12, 2011

Where to stand...

With Christ Himself, and not the world religious community that wouldn't recognize Jesus Christ if He were standing in front of their face. Nor would they allow His teaching in their "religious" churchianity churches.

He makes it quite clear in His Word as to who is who, (as opposed to who they claim to be,) ...what they will be doing, how to recognized them, etc.

Rev 2.9, Rev 3.9,

Matthew 13.24-43

Stand with Christ. He does NOT support the tares, nor does he recommend they be weeded out.

Maybe they'll wake up and get on the right track, which ultimately is what this whole thing is all about!!

Only Silver and Gold are Money
Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 3:58pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011

@Dr Jerome

I don’t think we have spoken directly but I sincerely thank you for your posts and efforts on MS. I like your approach to life, I suspected you were a Christian, a Believer, and am thrilled to hear such from you.

I am a student of the Civil War; I am fascinated by it, American Christian Brother vs. American Christian Brother.

Sherman’s March to the sea was really about a scorched earth policy, which in essence is what war is really all about. No? Killing and wrecking so much havoc and devastation on the opposition that the other side will surrender. No?

Such is the nature of War.

“As a Christian, where can I stand on this issue? I have been a peripheral Zion supporter in the past, but how does one reconcile abstract theological belief with actual attacks on civilians?”

Hard question indeed; I think BiBi said it best, “Israel uses it missile’s to protect its citizens, Hamas used it citizens to protect its missiles.”

IMO, Israel has arrived the point that if Hamas does not care about their own people, then why should Israel, forget the obligatory tap on the roof before they destroy a building, if Hamas does not care about their own people, then why should they. JMHO

I don’t condone everything Israel does, from a Christian perspective; they are both lost people, at present, both sides for the most part. They are just two lost people or cultures just killing each other, the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael.

This may just get out of control if other parties join the fray

The Lord does in fact have a National covenant with Israel, they are in fact, being regathered in Apostasy, Hear that all… ????

Israel is being regathered …. In apostasy, unbelief, anti Christ in Spirit, can make that any clearer???

Go back and read my last few posts on the Covenants of God with Israel…. I know dry stuff, theology…. read it any way if you really want to know what is going on.

They Israel are about to go through a horrendous time, the ‘70th week of Daniel,’ the ‘time of Jacobs trouble’.

Dr Jerome, respectfully, I have been posting for two years now on this, if you want to understand this issue. I suggest you go back to the beginning of the thread and start reading.

I really think it may help.

So where are the members that were mucking up main street? I don't see their posts here

Your right about that, you won’t see them here, they like hiding in the shadows, they don’t like the light. John 3:20

Blessings, Jj

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 4:19pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011


You are right the early Christians and church was persecuted by the Jews, no question about it, who else would have done such????

Paul was a good example, he tried to exterminate (us) them untill his conversion.

Yet those verses don’t hold water for the purposes that many anti Zionists seem to think they do throughout history.

The Jews stopped dragging us into synagogues long ago, throughout history this has been done and fulfilled by ‘the many ‘that claim to be Christians (Spiritual Israelites - Jewsbut are not).

If one is sitting in an apostate church, or fellowship, regardless of where you ‘meet’, then this verse applies to you……..

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” Romans 2:28-29.

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 4:40pm
Joined: Jul 24, 2011

Where to stand..

Dr J, you raised a question I have had in the past too....I didn't understand enough of the Old Testament (and NT also) to be able to defend a position. (And I am sure you know a lot more than I do.) Reading Jj's blog the past couple of years, and going back and listening to sermons on line my pastor has preached, as well as reading the Bible for myself, have all been helpful in understanding why I believe what I believe now. Yes, Israel is important, not because they are somehow better, but because God is using them in a particular way to fulfill His purposes, and I know what side I want to be on in the end! And honestly, it is awesome to see how Scripture and historical events line up!

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 4:42pm
Joined: Sep 12, 2011


that disjointed mixture of religious system teachings and out-of-context Biblical references you just directed at me... is there a question somewhere in there?? If so please ask it again.

Only Silver and Gold are Money
Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 5:49pm
Joined: Jul 24, 2011


I meant to say "Jj's posts" not "blog," above. You could have your own blog though, Jeremiah. Thank you so much for all the work you have put into this thread...and Foggy and NWView as well! This is certainly equivalent to a seminary course....

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 6:23pm
Joined: Nov 3, 2011


I just popped in to check Doc's comment and noticed I abbreviated your call sign incorrectly, please forgive my error.

M45 would seem a more apt shortening, it was meant as an endearment.

Again apologies, no offense intended.

We all must rely on our faith, it will uphold our ability to deal with coming dark events.

God still is in control.

Israel will receive a horrendous Judgement that will turn them toward God, as will the whole world!

God is incapable of lying, and always keeps His promises, always.


"But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end."

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."

Isa 45:17,18


Doc, I too have been wrestling with the horrific violence going on in Gaza, killing civilians is wrong and evil.

I read about innocents being killed in Gaza, and Ukraine and must feel the same in both instances, it offends my soul.

How can we view both and not come to the same conclusions, evil forces are behind the violence, the death of innocents cannot be justified no matter what the logic it is Sin and it is un Godly.

The ends do not justify the means, there must be a better way, it is a testimony to the premise that man is unable to govern himself.

Man's fallen nature on display for those who doubt such a concept.

In God's eyes are Israel's actions any less sinful than the Ukrainians?


We as believers in Christ are told in the Bible, our battle is not with flesh and blood, but with darkness of a spiritual nature.

The enemy is not of this world, we give Satan control through our free will choice, God will not violate our free will choices.


These events we are seeing are from those that walk not in the light, but in darkness.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but againstprincipalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Ephesians 6:12


We must pray for the children of Israel, that they turn their face to God, we must pray for the children of Palestine, that they turn their face to God, we must pray for the children of the world that they turn their face to God.


Doc, you're a smart guy, you know events around the world are not always as they seem, truth is an elusive commodity in todays world.

True power doesn't lie in the nominal leaders, but lies unseen in the hands of others, evil powers that stir the pot to achieve their desired ends.

Israel imho, is being painted into a corner, and is acting in self defense, but who is doing the painting?

What response should be taken, How can they stop people from firing rockets into their neighbourhoods?

​I don't know the answer to this question.

I am not sure there is an answer to this question.


Could it be You and I are reacting in the exact desired emotional response intended?

I am sure Israel will be attacked ferociously, world opinion, imho is being steered, to the exact position it has to be, to allow the desired effect.

Where did this managed like a sophisticated IPO, 'turnkey Caliphate' crop up from?

Fully Funded, PR offices and websites like some major corporate, all under the radar of those paid to know these things?

Well maybe to those freshly rolled off the Pumpkin Truck, but to anyone with an ounce of common sense, there is a mighty aroma of Fish wafting through the air.

I wish people would wake up, and pay attention to these not so random events.

Read the Bible, save your wretched Souls, it is all there, in Black and White.

ISIS is a tool and a distraction, the real one world religion is found in universalism by definition, know your Bible, hold fast to the Truth.

Grab that Truth and never let go of it, there is only one Son of God, and no one gets to the Father but through Him.

Find Him and hang on, you will never be deceived, sucked in by smooth tongues and lying doctrines of demons.


Albert Pike laid out the purpose for the conflict we are watching, do you think this is all random?

Imho every thing is humming along just swimmingly for the puppeteers, not just Israel, but Ukraine, Russia, the US, the world financial system, and the NWO.


Our only defense against these Evil Powers is Jesus Christ, and the Blood covering given through Him.

We can only expose these Evil Ones purposes, namely that they seek to change the outcome written in the Bible, through Hubris and Pride, they fully intend to thwart God's Plan of Paradise on Earth.

They will fail, the arrogance!

They think to achieve their ends by eliminating all of God's people, all Jews, all true Bible believing Christians, and by deceiving weak Christians, and everyone else into following a new religion, and a False Gospel with another Jesus.

This is not a new concept, this goal has been perpetrated century after century, inquisition after inquisition, millions have died to achieve this purpose.

Read History.


All these events from past to present to future are written in the Word of God the Holy Bible.

The Bible tells the 'end from the beginning', as it is God's Words spoken through His prophets, from beyond the dimension of Time.


"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

Isa 46:9,10



Context is everything,

Pray for Israel, the people, Pray for America, the people, Pray for the World, the people, the Governments of the World will need completely different Prayers.

Prayer is only answered if it be seen as Good in God's eyes.

I thought the distinction should be pointed out.

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 6:27pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011

@ SS 121

Not trying to pick a fight but when I see these two verses referenced Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9 and posted exclusively as so many have throughout this thread. It makes me wonder where one is really coming from; you really did not clearly say what you believe regarding Biblical, Physical Israel? No?

Let’s start with that as a question if you want one???…..

If I erred in assuming your position based on those two verses........ I apologize

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Rev 2:9 and Rev 3:9

No questions the early Jews persecuted the Church; just ask Paul, he will tell you, till he got straightened out by the Lord himself.

As for this entire world and it systems........

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness". I John 5:19.

If one is a Christian and breathing air then we are in enemy territory, we better get used to it because that is not going to change till the Lord returns.

America just happens to be is the Alamo, and yes, according to scripture, we are about to fall, then iniquity or Lawlessness will be the rule of the day. I really wish scripture taught something else but it doesn’t.

Sun, Aug 3, 2014 - 6:43pm
Jeremiah Jr
Babylon USA
Joined: Jun 15, 2011


Thanks for the kind words, my wife has told me that, as well as others... what are you typing and what are you posting???.....

Why don't you just start your own blog??.... perhaps I will if we have time.

IMO, that would just attract the Christians that want to understand what is going on. Nothing wrong with that but ones has to go where the fish are No?

Thanks for being here, as well as the others, NW, Foggy, and anyone I left out, truly.

Interesting days we live in No?