I Run Bartertown wrote: I'm in so far over my head. Not joking at all. Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Everyone knows that America is the greatest friend to political Israel. I hope I don't need a ton of quotes from the leaders of both nations to establish that. So, that being established, we've (JJ and I) agreed that America is Babylon. 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. That doesn't sound blessed at all. 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. God will avenge the killed prophets? But there are no prophets in America today. America didn't kill them. So why? Jer 23:14 "they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah." Strengthen evildoers? But we already established who America is the best friend to. Our leaders are solidly behind political Israel. They are more unified on that issue than any other. I'm confused now. Mat 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." 'the very elect' I'm going to have to look into. I don't know if that's me or JJ. Neither, both? some help here? I ask because I DON'T know. But I've got to believe that if there can be false Christs then there can be false anything. Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Like I said, I want to be 100% clear that I don't know. I was not sent, commanded, or spoken unto. But as I conclude this stream of consciousness post and ponder my poor lonely little mustard seed faith (I told you that I desire more), I have a lyric running through my head "Owner of a lonely heart is much better than the owner of a broken heart."
I'm in so far over my head. Not joking at all.
Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
Everyone knows that America is the greatest friend to political Israel. I hope I don't need a ton of quotes from the leaders of both nations to establish that.
So, that being established, we've (JJ and I) agreed that America is Babylon.
18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
That doesn't sound blessed at all.
18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
God will avenge the killed prophets? But there are no prophets in America today. America didn't kill them. So why?
Jer 23:14 "they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah."
Strengthen evildoers? But we already established who America is the best friend to. Our leaders are solidly behind political Israel. They are more unified on that issue than any other. I'm confused now.
Mat 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
'the very elect' I'm going to have to look into. I don't know if that's me or JJ. Neither, both? some help here? I ask because I DON'T know. But I've got to believe that if there can be false Christs then there can be false anything.
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Like I said, I want to be 100% clear that I don't know. I was not sent, commanded, or spoken unto.
But as I conclude this stream of consciousness post and ponder my poor lonely little mustard seed faith (I told you that I desire more), I have a lyric running through my head "Owner of a lonely heart is much better than the owner of a broken heart."
I can only offer my take on the posed questions, IRB, so I'll see if I can Help.
Imho as a Christian I must bless Israel the nation.
It would be wise at this point to make a distinction between Political Zionism and the Nation of Israel.
Apples and Oranges inmho.
Political Zionism is filled with Jews, non Jews and others with various benevolent and malevolent agendas, I am not equating these as the Nation of Israel.
I think this distinction must be made because anyone who dare speak ill of this powerful political entity is as a matter of course called anti-Semitic which I find disingenuous.
Definition of semitic
2 "of or relating to the peoples who speak these languages, esp. Hebrew and Arabic."
More to the point, the people are to be blessed, or loved by God fearing people, Israel the tribes of Jacob are the apple of God's eye, You as a godly man receive a blessing for loving the Tribes of Jacob.
I pray for Israel, because I have forgiven them for rejecting Jesus, I pray they repent and accept Jesus the Son of God.
The Children of Israel have been blinded to the truth, they cannot see, they need Christians to pray for them.
"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ."
"But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."
"Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away."
2 Cor 3:14,15,16
We must pray for them that they might see the Door, the Way, Jesus Christ.
We must pray they repent their error, and receive Christ's Sacrificial Blood Covering, and God's Promises.
They are as blind as any nonBeliever in God, because they have not the Holy Spirit indwelling in them.
They must accept Christ, repent and receive the baptism of Fire and the Holy Spirit.
Therefore they need us to pray as intercessors at the Throne of God for their vision to be restored through Christ
Babylon imho, is a composite of false religion and a system of ungodly human governments.
America has been a 'Friend of Israel', in a world of few friends, and has up till now been blessed by God for that loyalty.
"God will avenge the killed prophets? But there are no prophets in America today. America didn't kill them. So why?"
"Jer 23:14 "they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah."
Ancient Israel ignored the Prophets sent by God to get them to repent and return to God's Laws, and to stop fornicating with False gods, Baal idols etc., it did not listen to the prophets and killed some.
Jeremiah tried to get the wicked to repent, and was torn in two if memory serves.
Although America may be believed by some to be the current day Babylon, the verse above deals with Prophets of old, as well as the David Wilkersons and Prophets to come as well imho.
I believe in our lifetimes God will anoint Prophets every bit as powerful as the old Major Prophets, we are told as much in Scripture.
The composite, false Christendom, false Religion and the Empires it reigns over are an ever evolving Beast system.
The whore of Babylon, the 'Woman who rides the Beast, Rome the Empire, persecuted Christians as a matter of course to deflect blame for everything from political ineptitude to natural weather phenomenon.
Bad weather, food shortages round up the Christians feed them to the lions, need a boost in popularity, round up the Christians etc.
This is well known as the Beast, one of a succession, Greece prior, Medo-Persia prior, Babylon prior, Assyria prior, beginning in Egypt.
The RCC through centuries of inquisitions has slaughtered multitudes, the Jesuits have been the inquisitors almost exclusively, accept for a brief period when the Dominicans took over that responsibility, the Jesuits regained their Inquisitor status by removing the Dominicans.
The RCC is by some believed (myself included) to be the Harlot that rides the beast, see (Rev 17:4,6,9) located midst seven hills, colours of scarlet and purple, golden cup etc.
The Beast itself is more difficult to point out, there are so many parts to it in my opinion, The U.N., the U.S., MIC, CIA, NSA, Secret Societies, New York City, London, Paris, Washington, E.U. , China, Russia, etc. are all components of the Beast, yet I am sure with thought we could keep adding to the list.
IRB, you have been called by God, you are His elect, your mustard seed of Faith is all you need to continue your journey toward getting closer to God.
Read your Bible, bend your knee, bow your heart, and offer prayer and praise to Our Father who art in Heaven.
He will do the rest.
God Bless You.
Wow I like these posts today and it gives me a chance to state my views without being drug out of the steeple house and thrown down the stairs like they did George Fox. The doors to the steeple houses have been closed to me and many others for decades.
Lets talk about prophets today. We all see the prophets of old and they seemed to center on "Thus saith the Lord" and they told much of what is "going to happen" in the future. We all understand that. There were also many false prophets in the O.T. like the prophets of Baal (1Kings 18).
In my travels during the so-called Charismatic Renewal, I saw many want to be prophets, they were everywhere and the sheep had little to no discernment between the true or false. Just like it still is to this day. The renewal loved Eph. 4: 11-12 and so do I. However, those gifts that were given to the CHURCH (the called out people who have Christ within) are to be used today as the Spirit works within the Body. This five fold ministry is lacking today and has been stolen from the Body by the few.
The prophets today are real. There were prophets in the N.T. We cannot just throw them out of the picture as if they are not needed nor because we think they belong in the O.T. The prophets today "function" in a different way than before. The prophets today are ones "who see what is happening" more than trying to tell you about future events that will happen. Oh the damage that has been done to the Body by those who "think" they see the future from the Hal Lindsey's to Mr. Harold Camping and his date settings.
I traveled the world for many years, a few weeks here and there, then back home, teaching/preaching/evangelising/watching/listening/praying/seeking/crying/ and wondering how the American missionaries could be so far from the gospel. (Long stories).
I have been around a hand full of people, mostly men and one older lady Bonita, who were truly special. They could see clearly what was happening currently, in our meetings/city/nation/ or even the tent revival meeting. Just being around them was an event. There was just a presence of the Spirit upon them and one knew that it was time to just "listen" and keep ones mouth shut. The donkey in front of you may be speaking the Word of the Lord. All of these gifted ones out of Eph. 4, were not telling the future but telling me what was happening.
We go down to the big farmers market in our town and there is a palm reader/fortune teller who has set up shop. Yes for a price, she will tell you your future (false). If she knew the future, she would repent of her witchcraft and come to Christ. Anyway, we see these same types in the steeple houses and on the so called Christian T.V. stations. Have you seen those who practice giving "words of knowledge" to the blind sheep? We cannot practice our gifts, we either have a calling or we do not.
I think Jer. Jr. has some new whip marks on his back from the many postings. It is a great learning time for him and I hope that all who approach the Gates of the Kingdom will have as many. When we discover that we have made some people upset, we want to hide and keep quiet, let someone else take the whippings. If we lose Jer. Jr., IRB, Foggy, Mr. Fix and all the rest, we will have lost much.
The day will come when the Net will be down, the I-pads empty of information, the t.v.'s blank or filled with that old snow, the cell phones out of order and the events of the end times appearing daily. In those days one will only have what he has stored "within" and where his True Treasure is intact. jmo
We see a few minor point differently, but you are developing into a first rate theologian. imo
Yet if we both believed the exact same things, embraced the exact same thoughts, on each and every issue in life. Then from God's perspective, one of us was unnecessary. No?
Well said, Rome is a huge part of 'Mystery', but can't be the women, she does not fit the parameters given . jmo
Well said, I'm not going anywhere, not until I'm told to leave, which I have not been as of yet, or as you say, when the net goes down, and all that we all have is what is 'stored' within. agreed.
These are great exchanges IMHO, people asking, and seeking, on the real issues of life, the ones that follow one into eternity. As always, thanks for your perspective.
I probably deserve a good whipping from time to time, but for the most part, this thread is quite the educational experience. Therefore, I'm not inclined to leave for any reason, most particularly because of other people's opinion of me.
As far as prophets are concerned, I can put that in the category of anyone who speaks the truth, or who might in the foreseeable future, and they tend to wind up either dead, (if they might have credibility), or their credibility is destroyed. A lot wind up incarcerated.
We have dead reporters, dead bankers, dead scientists, dead public servants, and a whole lot of dead military members, whose only crime is that they saw things they should not have, and hence had to be eliminated.
I suspect that the truth is so far away from mainstream consciousness, that it would be easy to impugn anyone that speaks it. Of course, anyone with hard evidence must be eliminated.
As far as Zionism is concerned, I tend to agree with Nana's post at the top of the page, just like America has been hijacked, I think Judaism was hijacked many generations ago to promote a political agenda which is all a part of the endgame.
Unfortunately, I think that their belief that “God will protect them”, will be used against them.
I think the biblical narrative will be followed, until it no longer serves the purpose of the elite, and then, there will be many surprises, the kind that were never written down as prophecy.
It's all about deception, So that when the truth is revealed, few if any will see it coming.
Your turn, thanks the heartfelt reply, really not much there I was unaware of.
I never said there were not 'Jew's' in the EE or Cabal, I never have said that.
Couple of questions for you..... is it exclusively 'Jewish' in your opinion, and studies, or does in contain Americans as as well or even western European's.??? Elaborate....
Assuming everything you said is 100 % true,........
Your a Christian, so my next question is, what are we to about it.
One more before I go...... Have they 'forced' all this on America? or have we fallen asleep and allowed this to happen to ourselves?
Depending on how you answer that, Who would the Lord hold accountable, and why.
All the figs, all the Jews are reagthered in the last days, the good one's and the bad, both the Zionist's and the rest of them, back to their land, Jer 24:1-3 the final separating of the 'wheat from the chaff' is done by the Lord himself No?
Matt 3:12 and Like 3:17
You surely don't see that as something Christians are 'tasked' with... or do you?
No, I just used that as an analogy.
I know jumped in on this thread with a rant at JJ. Not the best way to get involved, especially because the comment that sparked me up was not even directed at me... All I can say is that I think it's far to easy to label somebody with that term and similar ones to make them marginalized. I am only human... I won't bring it up again though.
With that being said, I'm working on reading back on this thread and there is some good discussion here and I did have some misconceptions. I will continue to poke around. All of the discussion the last couple of days has been very interesting and so thank you for all of your sincere posts. Definitely some good people in here.
JJ I think I will get back to you on those questions. I have to get back to firring out a ridiculously poorly framing job I have to follow.
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What a fine Ministry this is, I have yet to locate a thumb drive to do this myself but will asap.
ps. Kind words Jj , I don't mind if you go fishing, just make sure you come back!
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. (Proverb 27:17)
Bless You All, fine Brothers and Sisters, "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
First, I want to thank you all. I appreciated each response. It's not easy to be the one raising these questions. It's not fun. I didn't expect to be 'redeemable' in anyones eyes after that discussion, but I think some hearts changed and allowed the possibility that my motives are not vicious. To the deepest of my heart's understanding, my motivation is love. Today's posts were important to me because I worried that my love itself - was hated. But it's not. Thank you all for that.
Stackaloha - You sound like me...only better at it...dancing on a minefield carefully so that no ones knee-jerk hits you in the stones. It's a shame it needs to be that way. I really wish that the 'old hands' here would take these concerns more to heart and address them in some way I could find more enlightening. I understand it's not a 'feelgood topic', but it's a very real stumbling block to me in reconciling the 'apple of God's eye' stuff with actions. All I seem to get is that they are the apple of God's eye because they can do no wrong and wanting any sort of accountability from someone Jewish is evil of me. Anything that might look wrong is just blindness, but no one else gets that excuse. Take one common tale. A bubbly young girl builds a following on a childrens show (Disney). At first, it's innocent enough...to set parents at ease and get those posters up on the walls of those girls. Over time this girl (Miley Cyrus, Linsay Lohan, etc.) becomes the vilest of skanks with the entire descent witnessed in real-time by their young, impressionable fans. The producers, managers, and executives handling every step in this process are, almost without fail, Jewish. It's one small snippet of the picture...the examples of such subversion in many arenas of life are legion. It sounded crazy to me too once. But once you see it, you can't un-see it.
I don't want to pound people in the face with ugliness, but I've read (and can link if needed) multiple accounts (like Stack's) written BY Jews that explain that porn is not just a money maker. Porn is a cultural and religious weapon used willfully against the hated Christian culture. All we know and love is slated for destruction because...why? Some Jews weren't allowed in country clubs and got resentful? Or it's just in their very nature? I don't know. I should remain open to the possibility that they are being used, and I will remain open to a non-blaming explanation. But I need some sort of explanation.
JJ - “Your a Christian, so my next question is, what are we to about it.”
Well, IF you are right, and we are truly on the verge of end times, then we could ride it out a bit more and bigger things would be in motion.
But consider for a moment - we were close 2000 years ago, so we really have absolutely no concept how far away we are in our worldly reckoning. We can look for signs, as you do. But we've been warned to be wary of the false. Haven't there always been wars, rumors of wars, and famine? Aren't you primarily using the current incarnation of political Israel as the only defining sign? Tell me what is theologically unsound about my not being completely convinced that these are indeed the last days? What if they're not? Will you gamble everything on your interpretation of events? What if we're hundreds of years off and one day those truly in the last days will wonder if theirs is another false start like happened in the early 21st century? IF that were the case, and you had 100's more years to nurture your people and keep them safe, but you threw up your hands and embraced the very first 'conclusive' sign you see of the end days...whew...I don't think I'd want to answer for that.
There will be nothing left of us. Even if you can save your kids, it's your grandkids that will fall, or their kids. There is a long and distinguished history of Christians acting as defenders of the Faith and Kin. No man is an island. The Culture and the Faith need a garden, not a little pot to grow in. Not a toxic dump.
JJ - Have they 'forced' all this on America? or have we fallen asleep and allowed this to happen to ourselves?
OK, point taken. But what would waking up and refusing to allow this to happen to ourselves look like? I am going to say it twice because I think it's the key sentence in this post what would waking up and refusing to allow this to happen to ourselves look like? Christians have woken up before (many times) and stopped allowing it to happen. It's a good thing they did. Thank the Lord they did. They kept the flame alive for us. But what they did is characterized most harshly. Most harshly of all by Modern Christians who can spite their forebears from safety BECAUSE of what their forebears did FOR THEM. No credit is given for preserving a great culture...just blame for offending the alien (not space alien - just foreign) culture that posed an existential threat. But if we do have hundreds of years left, and by your own reckoning the Jews will need to end up in Israel anyway...well...I hesitate to finish the thought, but the answer seems to be right there looking at me.
Heavy question, but isn't it one many cultures have faced and decided to live or to die?
Magpie left this on dots before, you might want to consider the possibility of it being an answer to your question:
"What would waking up and refusing to allow this to happen to ourselves look like?"
You need to read the whole thing.
Now, a highly credible insider speaking with GMN in a recorded interview has shed some light on what happened, and according to him things could have gone a whole different direction.
According to the whistleblower, who has thus far remained anonymous for fear of reprisal, the Department of Homeland Security on orders from the White House was preparing to disperse the protesters with physical force if necessary. Federal riot police were being mobilized, complete with riot gear, body armor and armored personnel carriers.
It is starting to happen, not just in this country, but all around the world, people are waking up.
This is why I do not believe that “prophecy” is written in stone.
“The agenda” has been thwarted in many places, many times. Most of it is not reported.
Good people are standing up against the evil that is confronting us, and they will continue to.
Thanks for sharing that. While it's serious, it felt like a breath of fresh air after reading my own post. I think I'll get back to that type of material for at least a few days. It feels downright light-hearted. Just tyranny, national security, rebellion...none of the heavy stuff in this thread.
I also read Foggy's touching story in Socks about the little girl on the beach. Wow.
I think I need some more of that and some simple Main St. /DOTS stuff.
Thanks for shifting my focus.
Good for you,
and over the next few days, consider this:
stop worrying about “God's wrath”. It's not worth it.
Yes, there will be some hard economic times ahead, but they are things we can prepare for.
Life is short, make every day count, and most importantly, bring happiness to all that you do.
The evil will be confronted, by good men who oppose it.
I really think that “Obama's handlers”, or “the Teleprompter in chief”, has overreached.
I could cite hundreds of articles where civilians and local law-enforcement want nothing to do with his agenda.
We live in a country with something like 300 million privately owned guns, and I have “ faith” that most of them are held in the hands of the good guys.
Until that changes, we will be okay.
Just make sure you know where your food, water, shelter, and life's necessities are.
Self-reliance will have its own rewards.
If the Bible doesn't say “God helps those who help themselves”, it most definitely should.
No worries, no need to apologize for anything, I’m glad you’re here, truly, in fact, you are asking the very same questions, I did some years ago, IMHO, you are a disciple, mathētḗs, just trying to ‘think things through’… as to what is going on in this crazy mixed up world we live in No?, welcome to the club.
IMHO, the Lord has his hand on you; no reason to fear, IMHO you are part of the ‘Elect”. If your weren’t you would be watching ‘America’s got talent’ on the T.V. or ‘The Greatest Race’ rather seeking answers to these deep, deep questions about matters such as we have been discussing.
You have asked some very, very good questions…… and I will respond tomorrow as I am uber tired now , sorry for that. I really am, can hardly keep my eyes open.
I don’t have all that answers but I really think I can help you with some of your questions. They in fact, are the same ones I asked…… years ago. In fact, I will take the day off tomorrow to try to answer them. Just where do you live, what‘s is your time zone? I am Eastern Time - America.
I am going to post my ‘testimony’ tomorrow on line as well for what it worth, ‘my story’ as a brother thought it might benefit this thread. And I think he is right, it’s just me story, that’s all. Who is Jj?
Truly, I am no expert in anything, yet I know more than I wish I did, about what is coming. In a way I wish I never would have asked.
In the end the EE is defeated, scripture is clear on this. The Lord has already defeated them at the Cross, It is Finished…….. Believe it.
See you tomorrow……
Thanks. I'm EST too, but please don't alter your schedule on my account. I don't want to commit too much of tomorrow to more of this conversation, TBH. Deep waters are dark waters. And I don't want to tie up your day in one big chunk when we can just pace ourselves (good idea on my end at least) and continue our talk with all the people in this exceptional group.
I would like to walk through a few of IRB’s questions or contradictions he has posed. But let’s stay focused, there will be a lot of side issues raised as we move and think through this, but let’s all stay focused.
To do so we need to look at the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, and we need to be able to believe what it is telling us is true. The Bible claims to be the very Words of God to mankind in so many places it is impossible to list them all. The very first thing Satan does is go after the scripture, or the Bible. It’s authenticity , or reliability, in anyone’s mind personally.
If he can convince one of that, the Bible is not what it claims to be, it is like getting pinned in a wrestling match in the first ten seconds and you have ‘tapped out’ and it’s…….. ‘game over’.
Even if you’re a Christian and someone in Dagney’s corner, and think the OT is a ‘comic book’. Jesus certainly didn’t, He continually cited it, and quoted it and when confronted personally by the devil, used it as a defense by saying, it is written, it is written, it is written…… He did not come to change the law but to fulfill it, he magnified it the sermon of the mount.
I agree with IRB 100%.......... “it’s 100% ………it’s all about Jesus”.
Jesus was Jewish, so again, we need to look at Israel as they were the race of people God chose to bring the Messiah of all mankind into the human race. Like it or not, the entire Old Testament is about them, if another nation is in there, it’s only because they had some interaction with Israel. Yet Israel comes into the ‘Kingdom of God’ like anyone else does through Jesus Christ, they have no ‘side deal’ with God. They have no ‘special program’. They are no different in a sense than you or I when it comes to the issue of Salvation. (John 14:6, Acts 4:12 Eph 2:8-9, Gen 15:6,- Romans 4:1-3 and so many others.)
Messiah was promised to the Jewish people and the Jewish people alone under the Old Covenant. If one wanted to convert to Judaism, you had to be circumcised, etc, yet even then you were a second class citizen and had to stay in the outer court.
God’s intention for Israel was to be a light and hope to the nations (same goal for the Church in the NT). They were a stiff necked and rebellious people as you can read for yourself, and yes , stack, they broke every covenant they made with God….. the ones that were conditional, but let’s just look at the first one because it was unconditional.
“And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed”
The Abrahamic Covenant.
The provisions of the Covenant are such. Gen 12:1-3
1) God would make him a Great nation
2) Make his Name great
3) All the families of the Earth would be blessed (through him is the Messianic bloodline)
4) A specific piece of land of real estate was given him.
Like it or not, this covenant was unconditional and Eteranal. Gen 13:15, Gen 17: 7-8
In the OT when a covenant was made between two partities, they would cut an animal in half , and both parties would walk between the pieces, which signified both sides oaths that it was sure death for the party that breaks the covenant, a ‘blood oath’ basically.
In verse 12, Abram is put to sleep and in Verse 17 we see…..
“And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.(That would be God)
In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates” Gen 15:17-18
God causes Abram to fall asleep and He is the only party to pass between the pieces, there are other covenants in the OT that were conditional however, and yes, as I said, Israel broke every one. I did a post on the one in Deuteronomy 28 which was a conditional covenant we should revisit because I believe America was/is a party to a ‘Deuteronomy 28 covenant’ as well, IMO.
God then changes Abram’s name to Abraham
“Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.(Jesus Christ)
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God” Gen 17:5-8.
Abraham becomes the progenitor of both the; Jewish and Arab/Musilm races or Semitic people. The ‘seed of promise,’ flows through to Isaac, and then to Jacob, who’s name was changed to Israel, by God himself
“And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; (Jesus Christ)
And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. Gen 35: 10-12.
There is that ‘pesky piece of land’ again, and there are hundreds of other promises God made to Israel that have not seen literal fulfillment, Messiah reigning and ruling for a thousand years of peace upon the throne of David, etc, etc, etc.
So the point of all the above…..
IF that Covenant was in fact, Unconditional (Which means it doesn’t matter what Abraham does) and made by God himself, who in scripture makes it very plain, in so many places, that He cannot lie, then what do we do about this.? Here are your options…
Some may think this is a mute point, what does it matter, why bother discussing this aspect of ‘Theology….…..boring. I say it’s very relevant, in fact, turn on the news, we may be watching the start another horrendous war, even WWIII possibly. (I pray not) but we may…… over this very issue…. So…….whose land is it???
The floor is open for discussion…. Fire away.......
You raise some more very good questions, but before I post our topic of discussion in the following post. How do we really know we are in the last days of this age???? … fair enough question.
In Matthew 24, the Olivet discourse that is basically the same question Jesus disciples asked him..
“And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world(Age)? Matt 24:3b
Jesus very first warning was on deception.
“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you” Matt 24:4.
And Deception is everywhere, do I really need to post a list???
Jesus himself tied the final generation to the fig tree and that fig tree, is the aposate, re-gathered Nation of Israel, once again in the promised land.
They are re-gathered initially, in apostasy (in a anti god- anti Christ state of mind) at the end of the age, both the good figs, and the bad, all of them. Any survivors of what is coming will also be gathering in the Millennium.
“Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Matthew 24:32-35. This the only parable Jesus told us to ‘learn’. Also see Mark 13 and Luke 21.
Jesus put himself ‘in the box’ so to speak with that statement, not me. He tied the final generation that see’s the rebirth and regathering of apostate Israel, to the end of the age. We can look and discuss the timing later.
The Fig tree is Israel. Matthew 21:19. Jesus sought fruit on the Old Covenant tree of Israel for three years and found none, so he cursed it.
OK, that said, here is our topic of discussion for the thread in the next post.
These are a few quotes that stick in my mind: Give your troubles to God he will be up all night Satan always marks his work The Church is Christ bride, Israel is God's adulterous wife
But God still owns it all...and TPTB hate any private land ownership...I believe the scroll that will be opened (Rev 6) is the title deed to planet earth and as the seals are broken open Yeshua is taking back/restoring his total control. Everlasting Covenants https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=everlasting+c... --- https://www.jesuswalk.com/abraham/4_covenant.htm --- I have heard it said that Israel is 1/10 of 1% of the total land mass in scope that the Muslims currently possess and controls. This is proof that the Muslim world does not "need" tiny Israel but that it wants Israel destroyed.... And Israel still does not have or control all the land that God has given for her yet...