MF Global (former Lind Waldock) Bankruptcy

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Fri, Nov 11, 2011 - 3:07pm
silverbleve
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Chico, CA
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
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not really worried

I'm not so much bothered by the loss of my personal gambling fund as I call it, but the larger implications to the world financial markets. Jesse at the crossroads cafe has done some of my favorite commentary on it. I have taken all my paper out of banks of any kind and given it to my local dealer for some sweet coins. Remove as much money from this 'system' as I can. Perhaps I should be posting this under the 'prepare accordingly' section now that I think of it.

The only thing that really burns me is thinking of all the Silver I could have bought with those funds, but I knew going into it I could lose it all at any time so expectations were always low.

I'm still wondering at what point do we break out the pitchforks, tar and feathers for the key cartel members, but thats just fantasy. But while we are on the subject of fantasy, I have always daydreamed about building a full size, functional guillotine:) Maybe I'll call it 'art' lol.

Sat, Nov 12, 2011 - 1:09pm
simonsito
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theres smoke; and bankers giving away money..but NO FIRE???

https://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/cme-acts-mf-customer-accounts

what do you make of this, guys?
it spells trouble in my view, big time probably....I dont have anything worth pulling in my account, and I was told they have their accounts with different banks all over europe(gotta love that), but I guess this could be a nasty liquidity issue anytime soon.. Or will greed prevail over fear once again....? Meaning nobody pulls anything out of any broker for the lack of alternatives, and instead keeps on buyingTFD? :)

The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
Sat, Nov 12, 2011 - 3:58pm
punchbowl
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celente

Sat, Nov 12, 2011 - 4:00pm (Reply to #24)
WillieTheKid
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Joined: Nov 11, 2011
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Let me answer some of my own questions

Let me answer some of my own questions:

1) They say some $593M is "missing". Does anyone know what percentage of the total assets that represents?

The news finally came up with that figure: $4B=The remaining amount NOT COUNTING the 6/10B (.6B) that is reportedly missing. So the total of all accounts must be right around 4.6B give or take. This means that the "missing" funds represent about 13% of all accounts. This jibes with the 20% figure that the court has directed the trustee to take from all accounts that have been transferred. (20%= 13%+a margin for error). All this is of course my conjecture and figuring and nearly pulling facts out my rear end, but it all works and to some extent, it comforts me that things seem to be working kind-of as expected.

(2) Were our cash funds guaranteed/protected by some federal or quasi-federal agency?

The latest news is that the CME is going to pony up about $300M ($.3B) to make this thing go away more quickly. If $600M is missing, then I don't know who they will expect to come up with the rest. Tinker Bell? Santa Claus?

I wonder if by offering this, the CME is somewhat admitting that they didn't do their due diligence in keeping track of our assets. Or, maybe when you are trying to keep track of a trading firm and the assets, it takes 10%+ missing before it is noticeable?

I still haven't figured out if my funds were insured or guaranteed by the SIPC, CME, CFTC or some other agency. Anyone know?

--Willie

Sat, Nov 12, 2011 - 7:38pm
simonsito
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maybe they dont even have the cash they have already stolen?

what I am thinking about is this:

there is a counterparty of MFG, one that Corzine was obviously happy to provide with his costumers assets. Provided they had no idea how Corzine came up with these assets, to liquidate them while MFG goes down is apparently legit from the creditor's perspective, right?

And this is where I get confused:
the CME is now giving out money to the trustee, even if it doesnt have to? But not all...? whats that?

from CMEs press-release:

Though CME Clearing does not guarantee FCM-held assets, CME Group is willing to provide a $250 million financial guarantee to the Trustee to give the Trustee greater latitude to make an interim distribution of cash to customers now, given the monumental task he faces to sort through considerable data and claims in order to complete the MF Global liquidation and make distributions to creditors. Additionally, CME Trust will provide $50 million to CME Group market participants in the event there is a shortfall at the conclusion of the Trustee's distribution process.

aha.
The trustee,who is reluctant to release the remains of the customers cash, is:

James Giddens will oversee the liquidation of MF Global Inc, according to the Securities Investor Protection Corp, which helps recover funds for customers of failed brokerages.

Giddens has for the last three years also been trustee for the U.S. broker-dealer of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc, the largest U.S. company to fail. His law firm, Hughes Hubbard & Reed, will be counsel to the trustee.

Bruce Krasting, Jesse, and my rear end are telling me the same thing:
There is not enough cash to go around in the incestuous circles around MFGlobal (Corzine-Goldman-Gensler-CFTC-CME-JPM).
MFs counterparty sold the collateral, realized that this was too much of a robbery, but now they are struggling to come up with the cash themselves as they were in for even more losses. The TOTUS, Treasury or the Bernank dont feel like doing anything that looks like a bailout..Now members of the club have to socialize the hit amongst themselves before a growing sense of uncertainty makes the remaining sheeple stampeding out of the casino.

If this is true, then the CME isnt stepping up to save the customers, but rather the counterparty, which would be pretty much finished as soon as its name goes public, for it would be obvious that they are in for big losses with regards to MFGlobal.

from jesse:

JP Morgan is one of the largest holders and agents of MF Global debt.

Jefferies Group underwrote MF's bond offering late this year.

and on a sidenote, to make my confusion complete:

here comes the SEC!

Regulators are reviewing whether some investors learned in advance and traded on news that pushed the company closer to bankruptcy, the people said.

[...]

About 32 percent, or $6.5 million, of the total $20 million of bonds traded on Oct. 24 were executed in the two hours preceding the downgrade, Trace data showed. Convertibles allow investors to exchange bonds for stock when shares of the issuers reach preset levels.

The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.
Mon, Nov 14, 2011 - 2:45pm
Budafuco
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$600M Coincidence?

I was reading the fine print on another broker's account under the SIPC Coverage. It said that they have purchased additional insurance through a group of Loyd's of London as a supplement to SIPC protection.

Get this, the additional insurance becomes available to customers when SIPC limits are exhausted and covers up to $600M!!

The missing money is just under $600M?...........I think we just found the money!

Wed, Nov 23, 2011 - 6:23pm
Caracal
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Claims forms are out...

Claims forms are out... damn... this stuff looks pretty complicated!

Sat, Nov 26, 2011 - 4:48pm (Reply to #31)
Woody Mornings
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RJO

Just received a monthly statement from my new broker RJ O'brien -40% light btw- stating that my funds will be available Dec 2nd.

Sat, Nov 26, 2011 - 5:36pm (Reply to #30)
bullnutz
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MF Global and Missing Silver

MF Global/JP Morgan missing silver was found by the Doc on SilverDoctors https://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/11/did-jp-morgan-just-convert-614000.html

Sat, Nov 26, 2011 - 7:36pm (Reply to #32)
silverbleve
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Chico, CA
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
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rj o

me too. 40% discount as well, but I just got an email statment. I'm suprised, I've been assuming that money was gone.

Sun, Nov 27, 2011 - 2:04pm
Caracal
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Guys, count your blessings...

Guys, count your blessings... at least you got 60%

I have yet to even see that!

Wed, Dec 7, 2011 - 5:16pm
wtfdik
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They made me whole

FWIW - I am in Canada, had all cash in my account as I closed out positions the day i heard. Today i rec'd a check in the mail and they made me whole - 100%. They've restored 'some' faith for me. Will use half for phyzz and try and find another broker for the balance.

P.S. Been lurking since day 1, but joined just now to inform of this.

i know nothing!
Tue, Dec 13, 2011 - 6:46pm
Terry Nygaard
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Shawnee Mission, KS
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MF Global (Lind-Waldock)

This is just deja vu all over again. Refco (which became the Man Group and then part of MF Global) also went tapioca. Customer's accounts were also frozen. In that case, though it took awhile, all the money was returned. This looks to be a lot worse.

Corzine and his "compliance officers" say they don't know where a billion dollars is. (Like he might have left it in his pocket or what?) the FBI CFTC and SEC "don't know" where it is either--and they have been looking since before the October 31 bankruptcy. Reports I am reading suggest we will get back about 60 cents on the dollar, but don't know at what point in time the value of the account will be calculated. People with losses occurring while their accounts are frozen could lose a lot more.

Another rip off by a former Goldman Sachs "regulator" in CFTC chair Gary Gensler, who used to work for Corzine at GS . Another example of stealing the public's money. I'm hiring a securities lawyer and investing in real estate. The markets are just an unregulated game for hedge funds and are no longer about preserving capital of investors, nor providing capital for real companies .

Thu, Mar 1, 2012 - 8:42pm (Reply to #37)
tankerfirstofficer
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