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Thu, Oct 13, 2011 - 4:59pm backseatdriver
TPaine
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backseatdriver wrote: Very

backseatdriver wrote:

Very afraid of a fair tax. More wolf in sheeps clothing fodder.

QFT
(I'm not a nimble day-trader. Cash account, no margin and settlement periods makes swing trading more my style)
Thu, Oct 13, 2011 - 6:27pm
jrobb316
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Like the song goes Stephanie,

Like the song goes Stephanie, you have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything. You seem to think being agnostic on things will somehow keep you safe or out of trouble. I am referring to this thread and also the 9-11 fiasco a month ago. And if you think the 999 tax plan is it, I have oceanfront property to sell you. There is only take, no give. Your not going to get FICA and the rest back, this would be on top of those things and of course subject to future increases. This guy is surely a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Thu, Oct 13, 2011 - 7:32pm
Bay of Pigs
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Cain quote

"Some people say that we ought to audit the Fed. Here's what I do know. The Federal Reserve already has so many internal audits it's ridiculous. I don't know why people think we're gonna learn this great amount of information by auditing the Federal Reserve,” Cain said in a speech delivered only months earlier on December 29, 2010. “I think a lot of people are calling for this audit of the Federal Reserve because they don't know enough about it. There's no hidden secrets going on in the Federal Reserve to my knowledge.”

https://www.lewrockwell.com/rep2/ron-paul-challenges-cain-over-fed.html

That is a bold faced lie. GATA had to go to court to force the FED to reveal information on it's gold swaps, among other things They have all kinds of hidden dealings with very little transparency. This guy is laughable. I can't imagine anyone on this site taking him seriously.

Thu, Oct 13, 2011 - 8:06pm Bay of Pigs
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What Cain said and admitted was ...

the key words this bankster Cain said are highlighted:

"There's no hidden secrets going on in the Federal Reserve to my knowledge."

I read that sentence multiple times. I encourage everyone to do so to, as there is a hidden meaning. He didn't say that the Fed has no hidden secrets. That's not what he said. He said that whatever the Fed has going on, they were not secrets to him. Big difference. This means that Cain just admitted that he knew personally everything the Fed has that may be considered secrets by the public. Quoting Ron Paul "Spoken like a true insider".

Thu, Oct 13, 2011 - 9:17pm
argent rampant
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Someone implied I should do my homework

before making a suggestion on this blog. Point taken. However, I sometimes do my homework BY placing a comment on this blog. In this case it paid off big time. Thanks to BOP, TPaine and others for illuminating some good stuff.

We're still early in this presidential election cycle, but Paul still looks like the guy I will pull for and support in any way I can. And BTW - @Stephanie, I understand it's your opinion, but writing off Paul because "he can't win" is a self-fulfilling prophecy, not to mention it parrots what the MSM keep telling the electorate. I say if you like his ideas, support him. Maybe more other people agree with you than you think.

Remember you have five categories of wealth: spiritual, physical, intellectual, relationships, and financial. Mind your accounts in all of them.
Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 10:22am
Mr. Picklepants
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I do not trust Herman Cain. I

I do not trust Herman Cain. I do support the Fair Tax over the current system, if they actually repealed everything else(big if).

Withholdings should be gone and replaced with nothing.

I've listened to Cain on the radio here in Georgia. I thought he was a nice, well meaning guy. If you keep listening to him, he eventually just seems vague and clueless ......... And that means he isn't going to change anythinig

Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 12:44pm
TPaine
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For someone who's proud of

For someone who's proud of not being a professional politician, Cain sure know how to talk like one. Every sentence out of the mans mouth sounds like spin to me... "You misunderstood me. Let me clarify..." "Now, you're mischaracterizing what I said, let me explain..." yadda, yadda, yadda...

Herman Cain vs. Ron Paul On Predicting The Economic Collapse.mp4
(I'm not a nimble day-trader. Cash account, no margin and settlement periods makes swing trading more my style)
Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 12:56pm
backseatdriver
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Vomit

When I heard his diatribe about the people being misinformed about the purpose of the Federal Reserve and that no audit was necessary, that was end game for him in my book.

BSD

"Blessed are those who find wisdom,those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold" Prov 3:13-14
Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 6:06pm
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Cain was Greenspan's apprentice

Source: https://dailycaller.com/2011/10/13/debate-wasnt-first-time-herman-cain-p...

Tuesday night’s debate in New Hampshire was not the first time Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain praised former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan.

In his recently released book, Cain — who served as chairman of the Kansas City Federal Reserve from 1995-1996 — wrote that Greenspan “was a very effective leader who did not make unilateral decisions.”

“Chairman Greenspan was a very amiable, soft-spoken, at times brilliant guy,” Cain wrote. “He would sit patiently and listen to all the reports; hear everybody; and then come to his insightful conclusion about what we needed to do.”

During the debate Tuesday night, Cain named Greenspan as the model for the chairman he would nominate to the Federal Reserve. Texas Rep. Ron Paul was not pleased.

“Spoken like a true insider,” Paul said in response to Cain during the debate. “No, Alan Greenspan was a disaster.”

“Everybody in Washington — liberals and conservatives — said he kept interest rates too low, too long.” Paul continued.

In his book, Cain wrote that when he was chairman, he “would go to Washington to meet with the Federal Reserve’s chairman, Alan Greenspan, and the other governors so they could receive firsthand anecdotal feedback.”

The Daily Caller attempted to interview Greenspan, but a spokeswoman said he was not available.

Cain, in his book, also said his work “demonstrated to me that we need the Federal Reserve, contrary to what some people, including at least one of my current opponents for the presidential nomination, believe.”

“I don’t believe we need to end the Federal Reserve system — that would be comparable to advocating that we get rid of air traffic controllers because we have some plane crashes,” Cain wrote.

Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 10:50pm
rowdyboy
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A couple extra questions for Herman "Greenspanator" Cain

GOLDMAN:

So which Federal Reserve chairman over the last 40 years do you think has been most successful and might serve as a model for that appointment?

CAIN: Alan Greenspan.

GOLDMAN: Why?

CAIN: Because that’s when I served on the board of the Federal Reserve in the early 1990s. And the way Alan Greenspan oversaw the Fed and the way he coordinated with all of the Federal Reserve banks, I think that it worked fine back in the early 1990s.

Now, on that same point, I have already identified two candidates — which I cannot give their names — to replace Mr. Bernanke, in anticipation of having that responsibility.

We must narrow the mission of the Fed first. I don’t believe in ending the Fed. I believe we can fix the Fed by getting their mission refocused on monetary price stability. And I have candidates in mind that will help us do that.

ME: So, Mr. Cain, when you say you want the Fed to refocus its mission on monetary price stability, do you mean get back to policies that caused the dollar to lose 96% of its value since the Fed took over in 1913? So you want to get back to devaluing the dollar even more, like your mentor Alan Greenspan taught you? And more of the boom-bust cycles Greenspan is noted for? I understand how that will help your bankster masters, but how will that help John Q. Public?

ME: Mr. Cain, your 9-9-9 plan creates a whole new tax stream, the national sales tax, while keeping the corporate and personal income tax. We all know that once a new tax stream is put in place, it never goes away. Since you will only serve a limited term, and Congress can and will vote tax increases, what is to prevent your 9-9-9 plan from becoming a 20-20-20 plan after your term is up? After all, there is no guarantee Congress will vote to remove the IRS and the existing income tax structure. That would leave us with the Fed created monstrosity we have plus your new tax stream.

Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 11:02pm
Bay of Pigs
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Replacing Bernanke

I'd put money down that Jamie Dimon is one of those two people he's referring to.

Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 11:12pm
backseatdriver
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rowdyboy

Well put. If only genuine questions were allowed at any venue. Hell, they dont even let informed citizens ask "real" questions at town hall meetings let alone "hard hitting interviews", which are really just loaded questions that they are given ahead of the recorded interview by their handlers.

We live in some bizarro make believe world now where we have to live two different lives, especially if you are "awake". So much of life now consists of us wasting our precious time and energy wading through all this construct BS.

Do you remember in the Matrix the scene with the girl that had the red dress on. Neo comes to realize that the herd/masses will do anything to protect their perceived reality or system which is enslaving them.

I pray this Forum becomes one of the biggest bastions of freedom and liberty in the entire world. A place where people can deprogram themselves. In my minds eye, I can see it happening. Getting there will be a haul but worth it if we can achieve it.

BSD

"Blessed are those who find wisdom,those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold" Prov 3:13-14
Fri, Oct 14, 2011 - 11:19pm
backseatdriver
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BOP

What about the "great Keynesian economist" Paul Krugman (I have heard rumblings of him also) I wouldn't rule him out either. Both have the Ivy League resumes needed for those "esteemed positions" that only Ivy League educations are worthy of.

They are all economic terrorists, that prop up more of the status quo BS. I am probably going to look for some cheap farm land in Chile, Argentina or Costa Rica if RP doesn't get the nod. Not for perm residence, just a solace for escape if need be.

BSD

"Blessed are those who find wisdom,those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold" Prov 3:13-14
Sat, Oct 15, 2011 - 7:55am
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Fair tax?  Would somebody

Fair tax? Would somebody please explain to me what is fair about any tax code where I or anybody have to pay any percent of

-Military actions in over 130 countries against the founders intention of securing the safety of the country.

-Billions and Billions of dollars that go oversee's to protect our interests to foreign countries and the United Nations? By the way what is our interests, nobody ever says what they are just that they are being protected.

-Billions of dollars that go to layers upon layers of bureaucratic red tape and regulatory agencies that do nothing but illegally interfere with the free market.

-I could go on with all the government spending that is criminal but you get the idea. Talking about any fair tax code, IMO, is just a exercise in futility until we begin to discuss and begin to eliminate trillions of dollars worth of criminal behavior by the fed reserve and federal government.

As I have said but will continue to repeat inflation is a HEINOUS crime against humanity. It is not an economic issue, it is a moral one. The romans did it and it contributed to the ruin of their civilization. Kubla Khan did it in Asia and created a legal tender act just as we have today. They were forced by the coersion of the law to accept paper money in trade for their goods. If you violated the legal tender act YOUR HEAD WAS CHOPPED OFF. Ok, the US is not as bad because if somebody owes you moeny and you refuse to take Federal Reserve Notes in payment of the debt, your debt is cancelled.

The fathers of this country KNEW economic history and knew that goverments will debase their currency to pay for their child's games. SO THEY CAME UP WITH THE CONSTITUTION. They were trying to stop history from being repeated.

"No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation, grant letters of marque and reprisal, coin money, emit bills or credit: make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment" etc.... You know the rest and if you don't you'd better look it up.

Politicians inflate the money supply when they can no longer tax the people more to pay for their revolutions.

It is the federal reserve monetary policy that creates boom and bust periods, puts farmers, small business's out of business and ruins local economies when the federal reserve injects into local economies creating cones that evaporate and millions of people are left high and dry due to malinvestment.

Stephanie, if he were my father, I'd might want to ask the following questions.

How do you feel about ARticle 1, section 10 of the constitution that prohibts a private bank creating the legal tender of the United States? How many ways does the federal reserve subvert this article?

Could you explain how the federal reserves monetary policies ruined the lifes of millions of people through inflation resulting in the following bust periods? (1914, 1919, 1921, 1924, 1927, 1933, 1938, 1945, 1949, 1954, 1958, 1961, 1970, 1975, 1980, 1982, 1991, 2008)

How is the federal reserves monetary policy different from the Roman governments policy of counterfeiting by making phony money by clipping the denarius?

If you are a policy maker at the federal reserve bank, you are an accomplice to one the most despicable crime that a federal goverment can put upon it's people. It's been going on for 2500 years of economic history. The only difference is that today the media has created the federal reserve as an institution of respectability.

Counterfeiting is an ILLEGAL ACT that hurts millions of people. It is simply an encroachment on the guarantees of the Constitution the pursuit of liberty. You are an American Citizen because you desire liberty. Under the constitution it is your responsibility to report crimes against humanity.

As a member of a jury, I request one, JUST ONE, example of how the Federal Reserve has served the greater good of the people. If this can be demonstrated, I will keep an open mind and reconsider my position that Cain (the fed) is responsible for the execution of Abel (the American system). I will not call for the prosecution of federal reserve bankers and the stiffest penalty the law will allow. I will also happily provide dozens of case histories, fact based, of individual situations where the fed's policy has ruined the lifes of individuals pursuing the American dream.

Anybody that can provide such proof, I will take a video recorder with me to the voting booth and video tape me voting for Cain. That is my promise. I will post on youtube and share it here on line.

Sat, Oct 15, 2011 - 2:54pm
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The way I see it is that

The way I see it is that there are two types of candidates running for the President. Candidates that want to return to the Founders Owners Manual, the Bill of Rights and Constitution, and immediately return the country back to a discliplined economic policy as outlined by Thomas Jefferson. Immediately, return the country to a policy of protection the national interest of America by eliminated the imperialist military policies and one where the federal goverment doesn't intefere with free markets.

The second type of candidate such as Caine totally ignore the issues that would return our country back into a responsible and sane system of government. We get mired in conversations of relative benefits of different tax codes to pay for our imperialist policies (tax the rich, tax the top 1%, social security taxes) and disagreements about whether we should reallocate troops in this or that foreign endeavor.

If any of a number of candidates in the second category get elected, we will experience a crisis of epic proportions for they will never deal with the essential issues and the they will just continue to kick the can down the road until everything falls apart.

If for some reason somebody with sense gets elected and immediately brings homes hundreds of thousands of troops, puts us back on a gold or multimetals standard, eliminates goverment anti-monolopy and closes unnecessary goverment regulatory bureau's, we might go directly into the countries worst depression ever anyway. We will need to experience some sort of correction after 200 years of malinvestment. Immediately, hundreds of thousands of soldiers would be unemployed, goverment bureaucrats, companies whose survival depends on goverment anti-trust laws. People who have invested in the greatest bubble ever, the US dollar, will loose their savings unless they have some kind of non-dollar assetts (gold, silver, platinum, oil, antiques, artwork etc...) Unless the new goverment is able to back some percentage of existing dollars. This crash and movement back into sanity will likely cascade across the world for everybody who has invested in this world currency would have to experience some degree of adjustment as well. Now, I'm just totally guessing. After WW2 Germany had absolutely no industry as it was all stolen by the allies and basically they returned to being a pastoral and agricultural nation. Many Germans died and scattered around Eastern Europe. Of course, they recovered in a relatively short amount of time because the FEDERAL RESERVE inflated the money supply and we created the Marshal Plan. There will be nobody to bail us out.

So I wouldn't wait for Ron Paul to get the nod before looking for real estate. Pain a coming either way.

Sat, Oct 15, 2011 - 8:21pm
backseatdriver
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The third clip where he talks

The third clip where he talks in the "venacular of his grandfather" and then yells to his audience is a bit strange.

Building the Truth about the Federal Reserve (Paul vs Cain): Ron Paul 2012
"Blessed are those who find wisdom,those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold" Prov 3:13-14
Sat, Oct 15, 2011 - 9:34pm
CreditCrumbs
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Herman Cain's tax plan analyzed

Friends, if you are the 99% and vote for Herman Cain, you are voting against your own self interest. Cain's 9-9-9 almost doubles the tax of the middle class labor owner, but is a big tax break for big capital owners.

This is precisely the thing we need considering the 1% controls 42% of financial wealth in the US. That's too low, and we must vote for Cain to let our feudal overlords to increase their wealth to 70%, just like it was during the dark ages. (italic = sarcasm).

Here is the analysis:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-12/cain-s-9-9-9-plan-raises-2-5-t...

Quote: "

The elephant in the room is the fact that Cain is proposing a value-added tax,” said Viard, a former economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas who says a VAT will be necessary to cover the government’s long-term fiscal needs. “The question of whether the revenue numbers add up is almost secondary to that.

“The absence of current law’s package of a standard deduction, personal exemptions, child credit, child care credit and the earned income tax credit means a huge tax hike for the working poor and a substantial tax increase on the labor income of the middle class,” wrote Edward Kleinbard, a law professor at the University of Southern California, in an Oct. 10 paper about Cain’s plan. “At the same time, the all-in 27 percent tax on labor income (or less for the self employed) would constitute a tax reduction for the very highest-labor income Americans.”

Read the following paper from USC professor as well:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1941800

Quote:

In the other direction, as described at the outset of this essay, the 9-9-9 Plan would mean a huge tax hike for the working poor and middle class. For these taxpayers, the income tax is irrelevant or a relatively small component of their total federal tax liabilities, by virtue of current law's package of a standard deduction, personal exemptions, child credit, childcare credit and the earned income tax credit. Taking these tax-reducing features out of the tax system and jumping from a flat 15.3 percent payroll tax rate (on the first $107,000 of wages) to the equivalent of a 27 percent flat rate payroll tax rate applied from the first dollar of income thus would represent a large increase in tax liability for many millions of households.

Also note the following facts:

1. Warren Buffet, John Paulson, Blankfein, Mozillo, Dimon, and gang, only spend a small fraction of their income on consumption, which means a small % of their income is taxed for sales tax of 9%. See my previous post on this thread showing how Buffet will pay 0.2% tax rate but Joe will pay 100 times as much (17%). Tax cut for the 1%, tax hike for the 99%.

2. 100% of hedge fund managers income and big portion of corporate execs income are carried interest or stock grants, which is taxed at capital gains tax rate, which will be 0% under Cain. So hedge fund managers' tax rate will be 0%, while you and I pay 27%. Tax cut for the 1%, tax hike for the 99%.

Keep voting against your self interest, sheeple. That's why the elite calls you sheeple.

Sat, Oct 15, 2011 - 9:39pm
backseatdriver
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Credit Crumbs

Perfect!. Nice Post. Have you seen Good Docs and my banter back and forth about a possible RP strategy to split the vote as an (I) if it comes down to that?

Would the republicans hang themselves intentionally just to spite RP and blatantly allow the re-election of BO. I think they would, but there would be some fireworks in the short. Many seats in both Sen&Cong would fall by the wayside should they choose to do that.

So many things are happening and converging at once it is hard to stay on top of it all, thats part of the beauty of TF as the Town has an uncanny ability to siphon out the fluff (for the most part) ;)

Thanks CC

BSD

"Blessed are those who find wisdom,those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold" Prov 3:13-14
Sat, Oct 15, 2011 - 9:45pm backseatdriver
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BSD, Ron Paul

BSD, I saw your discussion with Good Doc, I also hope Ron Paul will run as independent if he lost the primary.

Every GOP candidate is a wolf in a sheep clothing, except Ron Paul. Ron Paul all the way!

Sun, Oct 16, 2011 - 10:41am
TPaine
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Y'all seen this?

SNL did another what seemed to be typical skit with their parodies of Mitt, Herman and Rick Perry in the "studio", then with Newt and Michelle in the "broom closet", Rick Santorum on remote at a San Fran gay bar...and Ron Paul on CCTV camera (black and white screen) stuck out in the parking garage. This doesn't look good...BUT WAIT...!

So they ridiculed Herman (I mean they did a job on him), poked obvious fun at Mitt, and all but dismissed Rick Perry. Then after that fun they went to Michelle and Newt in the broom closet where Michelle took out Newt in a surprise ambush. Rick Santorum was being pawed over in the gay bar...and then...

They went to Ron Paul's character on the CCTV camera in the parking garage.

Suddenly a van pulls up and a few thugs jump out, pick Ron up and put him in the van (abduction, you're thinking). The debate moderator announces "Looks like bad news for Ron Paul." And you're thinking (as I was) "CRAP! They are dissing Ron now too!" NO, NO, NO! Now comes the SURPRISE ending...!

Flash back to the CCTV camera in the garage where you see/hear two gun shots in the van. The crowd in the SNL audience reacts in disbelief like "I can't believe SNL did this to (i.e. killed off) Ron Paul"...but then the van door SWINGS open and out jumps RON PAUL brushing himself off then his hands like "that's that!" (two thugs obviously took the bullets instead of our hero!) The SNL audience breaks out in applause and cheers at this surprise ending!

The female debate moderator back in the studio says, "Ron Paul, not going anywhere. Ideologically pure and tough as nails! Well, that concludes tonight's debate..."

Video unavailable
(I'm not a nimble day-trader. Cash account, no margin and settlement periods makes swing trading more my style)
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