Having been at Mish's, ZH and now Turd's for the last few years I've seen literally hundreds of trolls. Busted so many by now, I've kind of lost count. Some members at ZH have even referred to me a "troll buster".
Well, on that note, here's a place to kick that topic around if we need or want to. I'm assuming some of you would have some great stories to tell about various trolls/blogs.
Feel feel to share whatever you want or vent on whomever you like, as anything goes here at "fight club".
Thanks Bay of Pigs
Bring it on Bitches (shout out to ZH)
I have seen Bay of Pigs in action here and for a while over at ZH. He is good at busting trolls and I think that is a function that somebody needs to perform. He has a knack for it and because it is a unique talent, I am taking the time to honor him with his very own Canned Ham recipe and so here it goes:
Bay of Pigs Canned Ham and Trollful (truffle) Pate:
Note: the secret of this dish is the trollful. Collecting them is even considered an art in France. Only a very astute nose can smell them and identify them. Once found in the forest, they must be dug out of the ground, being careful to get them at the root for best results. Be sure to pulverize the trollfulls by beating them repeatedly until they are ground into a paste.
Serves: Everybody here very well.
Best enjoyed with Pinot Noir while mocking troll comments such as "it only costs $5 to dig out of the ground."
@Bay of Pigs - over at ZH I had a freaking troll stalker who went by William The Bastard (as one of his many aliases, I'm sure). That jerk used to stalk my comments and post right underneath me. It seemed like no matter what I said, he turned it into a personal attack. I struck back and called upon the ZH community to junk him off the site and they did. This was after I started ending my comments with sentences like "hey look, I must be a bridge because there's always a troll underneath me." That way when he slandered me he would be the next avatar under my comments, thus fingering him as a troll.
These damned trolls are bloody annoying and counterproductive, and I know that is their goal. What I can't seem to figure out is who exactly is hiring them and how much do they get paid? I would love to know this as I would take great delight in infiltrating their organization(s) and getting paid by them to collect intel on them as I find out who they are, who funds them, who are their targets, and why the hell do they bother so much - I mean really, who cares about what I think or post on ZH or anywhere else?
Of course, it would be pointless to present such inside info to the current SEC or Attorney General as evidence of market manipulation, but who knows, maybe in a few years these assholes will be held accountable for their blatant attempts at manipulating especially the silver market.
That's why I stopped posting and reading a lot of the comments there. Too many hijacked threads.
Glad to know that the unknown foil hat kitty knows our new troll busters. Bay of Pigs is familiar to me. Zoltan not so much.
Will you be posting your troll alerts here to circumvent feeding the trolls in the threads?
I suspect that we will someday learn more about who hires them and why. One of the side effects of this coming collapse will be low level minions losing their jobs as money to pay them dries up. Some of those will have nothing left to lose by telling their stories...and some will go public for tabloids and whatnot BECAUSE they need the money. I hope secrets get revealed while there's still a way to hold criminals accountable.
Another source of information could be protests that turn into riots in which official or bank buildings get overrun and internal documents get out into the light.
We already know that managing public perception via infiltrating blogs is condoned at the highest levels of government judging by Cass Sunstein's published papers on the topic and his current position as Administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs for the Obama administration.
A long time Obama confidant, Sunstein authored a paper in 2008 called "Conspiracy Theories". The following is the abstract from the paper (bold text mine):
Many millions of people hold conspiracy theories; they believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice or some terrible event. A recent example is the belief, widespread in some parts of the world, that the attacks of 9/11 were carried out not by Al Qaeda, but by Israel or the United States. Those who subscribe to conspiracy theories may create serious risks, including risks of violence, and the existence of such theories raises significant challenges for policy and law. The first challenge is to understand the mechanisms by which conspiracy theories prosper; the second challenge is to understand how such theories might be undermined. Such theories typically spread as a result of identifiable cognitive blunders, operating in conjunction with informational and reputational influences. A distinctive feature of conspiracy theories is their self-sealing quality. Conspiracy theorists are not likely to be persuaded by an attempt to dispel their theories; they may even characterize that very attempt as further proof of the conspiracy. Because those who hold conspiracy theories typically suffer from a crippled epistemology, in accordance with which it is rational to hold such theories, the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups. Various policy dilemmas, such as the question whether it is better for government to rebut conspiracy theories or to ignore them, are explored in this light.
So, it's not a stretch to conclude that at least some trolls are paid by....taxpayers.
They make it sound like some kind of disease
"Because those who hold conspiracy theories typically suffer from a crippled epistemology, in accordance with which it is rational to hold such theories, the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups."
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy definition of epistomology:
"Defined narrowly, epistemology is the study of knowledge and justified belief. As the study of knowledge, epistemology is concerned with the following questions: What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of knowledge? What are its sources? What is its structure, and what are its limits? As the study of justified belief, epistemology aims to answer questions such as: How we are to understand the concept of justification? What makes justified beliefs justified?"
To me this definition, as well as what would be used to describe crippled epistomology, is just some twisted philosophical mumbo jumbo used to support whatever they want it to, using big words to make themselves feel both important and better than everyone else who needs to use a dictionary to get through each and every paragraph while it continues to make absolutely no sense at all.
And no it is not a stretch to think that the taxpayers through NGO's are paying for it all.
signing off for the night
Yes lets get these twats!
What was your handle over there at ZH?
Billy the Bastard, GoldenMiddleFinger, Math Man, Johnny Bravo and many others took up way too much space on those threads. They were all instigators and troublemakers. Now some douchebag called Libertarians for Prosperity (I think he's the old Redneck Repugnant) gets it from me now and then. I really can't being called a"doomer" by these idiots.
Zyphen was clearly a troll. He had to be confronted and outed. Good job gang.
I agree it is counterproductive for us to waste too much time and energy on them. I am glad some of have my back, and I yours.
Peace and Aloha...
I've been on lots of forums for years and have managed my own for 4-5 years.
There are different types of trolls, lets face it.
They best way to "bust" a troll overall is to completely ignore them. If they truly are truly doing nothing more than instigating and acting like a 6 year old, then they will go away due to the lack of attention. Seen it a 100 times.
If someone comes along and challenges the groupthink and is mildly abrasive, I have no issue with that. They will be checked by guys like Bay here and things will be fine. These "trolls" have a specific purpose in that they force you to question the pervasive herd mentality. It's normal and healthy and everyone should welcome it. Best way to deal with them is to challenge them right back.
If a real fuckjob shows up and comes off all cute at the mouth, tries to pick fights, slams the mods/admin, etc...you just ban them.
The #1 rule is don't stoop to their level or you've officially been had by the intrawebz.
Just when you think he's gone - then he's back!
HITMAN56 on ZeroHedge.
There was a post about Timmay, and his comment was "somebody pop this fuck".
My response was "why don't you do what the government usually does... do it yourself and blame someone else?"
I called him an agent provocateur and posted the wiki definition of said title.
Within minutes his comment, my reply, and others all disappeared.
Hopefully Mr. Holdren didn't take it too hard on him...
I appreciate your no nonsense approach to this. I agree with you but it can be difficult to ignore at times.
Zyphen throwing Murphy, McGuire and GATA under the bus was a dead giveaway. Then he took a swipe at Turd himself. He might not be a classic "troll", but he still needed to be confronted/outed.
I get tied up for a day and miss the best troll busting opportunity of the year :). Zyphen IS a troll... and a very sophisticated one. I haven't had time to read all the posts I've missed but it looks like it's been chaos.
One of the most effective weapons a troll can employ is getting a community like this one with many intelligent (and sometimes stubborn) people with a diversity of perspectives fighting among themselves.
We need the diversity of perspective. We need the intelligence. We need the discussion. We don't need the mean spiritedness that appears to have been loosed today.
The quality of poster here is second to none...I think Turdville will recover its decorum and respect for divergent opinions that are held honestly.
Zyphen doesn't fit that description.
Bay of Pigs (I think it was) pointed out one glaring proof - Andrew MaGuire. I'll try to take time tomorrow to find all Zyphen's posts and find a few more. I'm betting they're there...
Same handle, but I changed avatars over there from time to time and right now the avatars don't match.
Gosh "Meth Man" was a total pain in the ass.
I got trolled upon by Librertarians for Prosperity the last time I seriously engaged in conversation at ZH and that I think was the last time I posted anything thoughtful over there. I pretty much just keep it now to witticisms and "drive by humor."
You see, this is the damned consequence of allowing trolls to ruin a website... you get people like me who simply no longer want to participate in, engage or initiate meaningful and educational debate. This is exactly why I support your efforts here in Turdville and wish you the best of success.
I personally seem to suck at detecting trolls until it's too late and everybody else has already figured out they're a troll. My downfall is that I believe in my heart that people are good and so I always am giving them the benefit of the doubt. This makes me a perfect troll target. That's why people like me need you.
Give 'em hell.
Good job on Zyphen (I didn't catch all the action but caught enough posts to make my decision).
All the best,
Thought I should contribute to this thread as it is a matter of importance to this community.
My request to not delete posts from obvious trolls but rather to sent them here for review and analysis was a way to keep the blog clean from their crap and to allow readers to make their own decisions about people's contributions to this site. I don't like censorship by deleting posts (except in cases of obvious spamming or if the post is deemed too offensive for the community standard) and feel we would gain more by having them here to dissect.
As Turd acknowledged in his blog today the organized troll brigade is registering en masse and will work to divide and destroy this community. I have seen many sites I respect destroyed by trolls (anyone remember who duneyman, duneyman jr. and roger were?).
PM bears and people with opposite opinions are important contributors to the discussions and are not trolls based on their beliefs. But there is an organized enemy to these sites that will sow carnage in the community if not challenged and outed. There is a huge diversity of opinions here on all matters from PM's to canned hams and there is room for that.
What we need to do is be vigilant about those that would destroy what we have built.
Zoltan you've got my vote on that. Would you and/or BOP please forward that idea to the moderators? They have a "suggestion box" kind of forum set up for site improvement ideas.
Turdville has reached critical mass now and I don't think the trolls will stop coming. I think somebody posted on the main thread that there were 27,000 hits on the Revolutions and Revolutionaries thread alone, and Turd chimed in that they were all from unique IP addresses. That is pretty darn good traffic.
On another note, though, even if only 1% of all the traffic were trolls, then that equals 270 freaking trolls to deal with. I suspect we're going to need some help from the Moderators and regulars in Turdville.
Could you also suggest to the Moderators a button (like the ignore button) that says "Troll" or "Troll Alert." Then, similar to the "Alert Moderator" button it would send a copy of the potential troll's email here where you and BOP could make the call on whether or not label the poster a troll. If somebody gets labeled a Troll then instead of "Muckman" or "Digger", etc. their avatar could read "Probable Troll" and people could use the ignore button on them. Enough ignores, say over 1,000 should be enough to delete the poster's account, in my opinion.
Well, that's all just food for thought. As I mentioned before, I suck at dealing with trolls but I am determined to do what I can to keep them from ruining this site. I warn in advance that I will present both good and not so good ideas, but that's why you guys are in charge of this forum and not me. Best of luck. Cheers.
Here you people are talking about trolls, but no attempt is made to clearly define exactly what are the essential characteristics of a troll. In other words, define your terms. I think this term is over used and misused to define anyone you don't like or disagree.
The best way to handle someone with whom you disagree is to have superior reasoning skills, a greater command of the facts, and the ability to define your terms. If you can get to the very heart of a flawed premise you can easily overwhelm your opponent with the truth. Using the term troll is just another ad hominem attack and a good argument is vastly more educational and instructive than just throwing labels on someone. The ability to dissect a persons argument word for word is the best way to expose his ignorance, stupidity, or malicious intent. This my friends is a rare unique art and skill not to be very often found in any forum.
Additionally, this is not a fight. Isn't this the fight room? This is a one sided discussion about a word that has not even been defined. That reduces it to nothing but emotion, unfounded feelings attached to a word with only connotation, not precise definition. For shame !!!!
I agree with Dr. Durden. It has been said that the native americans would curse an individual by turning their backs on them. Ignoring somebody is the worse sort of invalidation a human must endore. Remember a time when nobody listened to you. An angry person seeks a reaction, any reaction. When you respond to them, they have won.
Sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me. Whoever wrote that surely wasn't a six year old. Man can take any number of physical abuse and torture but call somebody stupid and they will immediately lash out. The weakest part of a human being is his psyche. If you are fat and somebody calls you fat, it can't bother you as long as you are comfortable with being fat. When somebody calls you something that you don't like, it is only because there is a place within you that believes that which was told you. It is called pushing buttons. If you remove your buttons, nobody can press them.
If somebody tells you gold is going to $2.00 it should not bother you if you are convinced through your entire being that it is not.
Whomever accepts this premise, I suggest we start by ignoring the person that called Turd a Turd. Invariably somebody is going to respond in anger to defend the Turd. No need. The person will be extremely insulted if nobody responds.
Why there is an ignore button, I don't know. The mods only destroy this site because they do not permit the slightest degree of contention, disagreement, alternate points of views.
It's all one big happy family now. Don't dare even start a fight in the fight room. That's another big lie. The mods will make sure there is not the slightest hint of debate, neither with them nor with a fellow member.
The edge is gone. There isn't the slightest fun here anymore. They wouldn't know a troll here if one kicked them in the ass.
Like it was said above the word troll is undefined and just another way to slam another with ad hominem attacks.
The mods here are a big joke. It's disgusting, now the place is sterile, and dull.
Hope you people like your new Gestapo and fascist dictator and his female Nazis.
If this is not deleted, then the account will get closed or the IP blocked.
These damn Mods cause so much hatred for this site. It will never make it now. That you can count on.