What Bullion to buy?-question for the pro stackers.

43 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 2:28pm
Jrandom
Offline
Joined: Sep 5, 2011
19
28

The shop Rico was talking

The shop Rico was talking about is www.tuvling.com. The almost always have the best prices. I also use www.goldshark.com to do price comparisons. Apmex used to have great prices before they moved into their "mini-Fort Knox". Kitco.com are scumbags, their prices will look good, until you check out and they gouge you on shipping (they told me I could drive to Montreal and pick up direct if I wanted to avoid those fees, thanks guys.). I have never bought from Provdent, but they show up from time to time on Goldshark, so they might have some good prices. I got a great price on ASMs from Texas Precious Metals (through Goldshark), even beat Tuvling for the quanity I got. As to what to buy, there isn't any one "silver bullet" solution. I have 90% dimes all the way up to 1k bars. After looking for fractional silver rounds, I decided that the markup just wasnt worth it. If you want small silver just get junk dimes ( zero worry of counterfeit and easily recognizable). Having ASMs and Maples are good, since they are legal tender (though 75% of the Maple tubes I have opened, the Maples end up getting those "milk stains". Which is disappointing.). Tuvling sells 10oz NRT bars for $.50 over spot, so I'd pick up some of those too. Mike Maloney (from Rich Dad, Poor Dad and Goldsilver.com) believes that in a silver squeeze, industry is going to be the big buyer, so he suggests getting .9999 (apparently that is what industry uses, instead of .999). So you might want to get some 4x9s from the Royal Canadian Mint, or one of their resellers.

Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 2:40pm
Strongsidejedi
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
2519
11801

pristine coin vs ???

Not sure what the discussion about "pristine" coinage is about.

When I was up at a local PM bullion wholesaler, I watched them price some silver coins brought in from the street to sell to the wholesaler.
He knocked a good 10% off the silver coinage if the coin was shiny and lost the aging patina.

Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 3:24pm
tallydynasty
Offline
-
Tallahassee, FL
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
341
989

Ebay is a great source for

Ebay is a great source for real market intel. The open market tells you exactly what kinds of bullion are most desired with the best public resale premiums.

Did you know there are typically 30,000 active silver bullion listings at all times?

What I have found is that Brand matters. Yes silver is silver, but certain brands like Englehard and Scottsdale Silver continually drive the highest resale premium....which means a few things. People feel more comfortable with certain brand names(Trust) which makes selling them that much easier.....plus getting an extra buck or more an ounce is always nice.

When the masses get into bullion and silver is in excess of 100 bucks - counterfeits will hit the market and consumers will get picky. Think beyond just the buy....prepare for the day you need to sell.

Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 4:44pm Strongsidejedi
Rico
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
1901
6337

Strongsidejedi wrote: Not

Strongsidejedi wrote:

Not sure what the discussion about "pristine" coinage is about.

When I was up at a local PM bullion wholesaler, I watched them price some silver coins brought in from the street to sell to the wholesaler.
He knocked a good 10% off the silver coinage if the coin was shiny and lost the aging patina.

We're talking about new ASEs, not older coins. Have you seen a roll of new ASEs fresh from the mint? I don't think your dealer was knocking anything off those...

Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 4:46pm Strongsidejedi
Eric Original
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
4254
0

Hi Jedi

Really? On ASE's? That would surprise me. Perhaps we are talking about 2 different things. On older coins like Morgan Silver Dollars they for sure want them to be in original uncleaned condition. With whatever the kind of patina they have acquired over those hundred years. The surest way to destroy any premium is to attempt to clean it and shine it up. You can't fool them.

On the other hand, with ASE's a lot of the market is ordinary folks who want a few for birthday or Christmas presents. They want them in brand new super shiny condition. When you go to sell some in a coin shop they'll pay a pretty good premium for them because they know they can turn around and sell them at full premium in a hurry. But if you walk in with some that are 10 or 15 years old and they are starting to look a little schmutzy, then they are not so excited. They'll buy them for less, and are just as likely to just toss them into the same bin as the Scottsdales or Silvertownes. At least that's been my experience in my area.

There are also people who collect ASE's (apparently 1996 is the tough one to find), but it's been my impression again that those collectors want coins that have been properly protected and still look like new.

Maybe what that wholesaler was eyeing was any sign of cleaning. That kills the premium whether you are talking old coins or ASE's.

This isn't a metals blog anymore. It's a right wing circle jerk, masquerading as a metals blog.
Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 7:34pm
Titus Andronicus
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
1165
4537

I buy a mix

My silver stack (including the current Tulving premiums) is roughly:

30%: Eagles (spot +$2.59)

15%: Maples (spot +$2.19)

40%: 100 oz JM/Englehard bars (spot +79c)

15%: junk (pre-1965 90% silver US coins) (spot -30c)

My opinion is that these are all good forms. The big advantage of all of these is that they are all easily recognizable and easy to sell. All of these forms are truly "commodities" and will have easy to quote premiums. (You can quickly judge and compare vendors by their premiums on these staples.)

If used forms of these are available, I buy those. That is, used JM bars and opened monster boxes are my first choice.

Some people like the rounds, but I avoid them because I think they are not as easily recognizable and easy to sell. My opinion may or may not be correct about this, but I feel pretty strongly about it.

I do not own any "numismatic" silver. Probably when I build my gold stack I will include some there. I have no plans to buy numismatic silver.

I recommend any of the above. (Just don't go 100% 100 oz bars unless your "stack" is more like a "wall").

Watch the premiums and buy what is cheapest. (Relatively cheapest, that is. Eagles will always command a higher premium than junk.)

I buy almost all my stuff from Tulving. Definitely the best prices, but you need to buy at least 500 oz (usually).

Somtimes I buy APMEX, but that is when I need a few days of float and pay by check. (You can get 3-5 days of float before your check needs to arrive.) Gainesville has good prices, but I've never used them. You also might want to check out True Metals. Here are the links for them all:

https://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html

https://www.apmex.com/

https://www.gainesvillecoins.com/

https://www.silver50.com/index.html

My gold stack is not big enough yet to talk about. I'm just about to start it now.

Thu, Sep 8, 2011 - 11:43am
SILVERHUNTER
Offline
Joined: Aug 31, 2011
14
6

Thanks to all that replied, I

Thanks to all that replied, I learned a ton!

Fri, Sep 9, 2011 - 2:56am
donpaulo
Offline
-
Japan
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
123
3411

I absolutely hate ebay for

I absolutely hate ebay for metal purchasing. Way too many scams and ebay doesn't give a rats arse about you the customer.

far better to take your business directly to the dealer either via the net or in your general area. Since I live in Japan I take my business to Australia such the Perth Mint which has a bit of a premium but there are no issues with purity or scams etc. I also invested in spotmex because I felt it was a service greatly needed in the precious metals buying community. If you haven't checked it out you should. Then again I am a biased shill...

but seriously the best metal to get is the kind you can stack in your hands. I started with bars, moved over to coins (for some diversification) then went back to bars.

You need to build towards your core position, and however you can reach that goal is fine no matter if its "junk" silver, or ASE's or Maples or Kooks or bars. Just stack them and don't let the market shake you out of your position because silver is a roller coaster.

When margins change the market tanked earlier this year. I kept waiting to see the 200 day moving average when I would buy some more and it never got there. Then again I had met my core position so I was waiting for a relative "bargain".

If you aren't at your baseline you need to work on getting more. Once you have there is a great feeling of satisfaction and with the way silver has been moving you are most likely going to be in the money no matter if there is a 10% dip or not. I know most here are in that position.

If I had to choose 1 item to buy I would select

Maples as the value is $5 Cdn which I feel hold more long term value and in a larger denomination that ASE. But as I said I don't live in the USA.

My favorite bars are the kilo sized ones because they make great dumbbells while riding the life cycle :)

keep stacking ya'll

Fri, Sep 9, 2011 - 6:12am
pailin
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
4313
15417

.

.

To the intelligent man or woman, life appears infinitely mysterious, but the stupid have an answer for everything. -Edward Abbey
Tue, Sep 13, 2011 - 2:16pm
WheelerSilver
Offline
-
Vernon, VT
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
113
549

Call me bias...

Call me bias but I like the hand poured bars. I like them so much I started my own had poured bullion business with my brother in my garage lol. For me there was always something really cool about hand poured bars and they way they look and feel. I'm not really fond of the premium stuff like eagles and maples either. I put my money into silver because I like the fundamentals of the metal as a monetary and industrial material. I'm not excited about investing my money in a government mint premium. You do get what you pay for and personally I only want to pay for silver. Just my opinion.

http://www.wheelersilver.com ~Handmade Fine Silver Bullion~
Tue, Sep 13, 2011 - 3:59pm
Jake
Offline
-
Joliet
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
476
7804

This is why silver is more interesting than gold

Silver exists in so many different varieties compared to gold, it is both more interesting and possibly more confusing. I say "silver is more interesting" although I still would advocate 50-50 gold to silver only because one out-performs the other on various time frames making it impossible to judge which is better to hold at any given time. Buy both and be happy.

In the silver category there are really only a few "Best" choices.

Buy them From Your Local Coin Shop Unless He Can't Beat Provident's Price to Avoid Shipping:

https://www.providentmetals.com/1-oz-999-fine-silver-rounds-buffalo-desi...

1 oz. rounds---Buy them new only because their resale value is more easily judged by a dealer.

Junk silver--Buy only good condition Roosevelt dimes,Washington quarters and Kennedy or Franklin halves. I've had some bad experiences with overly worn junk silver from APMEX and GoldenEagle Coins. Avoid these $1000 bags for this reason. The best way to avoid getting overly worn standing liberty/mercury/barber/walking liberty junk silver is to find a dealer (local coin shop) that allows you to pick though his junk silver bucket. If you can't find a dealer who will do this or the price is too high, tell them to take a flying leap and buy ONLY Kennedy halves from online dealers. This sounds like I'm suggesting you avoid quarters and dimes and you are right in assuming this.

If you buy rolls of specific quarters and/or dimes/halves, you'll pay too much. The only junk silver coin you can buy confidently in bulk bags that still are not overly worn is the 1964 Kennedy half. 100's of millions were minted and they are as easily recognizable as any other form of silver. Bags of Kennedy's are sold with close to the low premiums of any junk silver mixed bags without the probability of getting slicks and overly worn walking liberties Franklins Thrown in.

https://www.apmex.com/Product/57773/90_Silver_1964_Kennedy_Halves___500_...

Remember: the accepted weight of silver in a $1000 face bag is 715 oz. I guarantee you a $1000 bag of 1964 Kennedy's contains more silver.

10-oz bars-- This is as large as I would recommend only because I believe silver will be over $100/oz. some day. 100 oz. and larger bars will be more difficult to liquidate at reasonable prices IMO.

That's IT!

There are many other forms such as Eagles/Maples/Philharmonics/Mexican Onzas/Cuahutemocs/Morgan silver dollars/Canadian Silver Dollars/War Nickels/Larger than 10z. rounds/Low percentage silver coins, etc that you can buy for fun but don't make them a large part of your stack.

GOLD

If 100 oz. silver is too big, then anything over 1 0z. gold increments are too big too. I buy American eagles as they don't have the potential of showing scratches like pure gold coins such as Maples and Buffalos do.

There You Have It! My Simple Opinion on Stacking.

Your Silver--I Want to Buy it! Sell Me Your Silver!
Wed, Sep 14, 2011 - 1:11am
Desert Fox
Offline
-
napa, CA
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
185
3567

Looking Forward

Obviously some well informed/experienced Silver investors here. Hat tips all around.

Jake breaks it down very nicely {as usual}

I find my choices have changed over the years and I wonder myself if I was starting to purchase at $40 instead of $4, what would I be buying?

Junk, while an unfortunate term is a great starter. Low premiums, recognizable, solid resale.

Thinking in terms of resale in time {not there by a long ways in my opinion} I'd concentrate on recognized mint's 5 and 10 ounce bars. As spot prices go higher those 100 ounce bars will be very expensive and it really doesn't cost more for the smaller bars and in bulk they don't take up anymore room. Be easier to move smaller bars down the road if you need/want to.

1 ounce bars and rounds? Yes! Continue to acquire these in recognizable forms and you'll be rewarded as these are the building blocks for the average Silver investor to start and grow their stack from. Always a good resell item to have in your portfolio.

Love the Morgans, Peace and ASE,s , Maples, etc. but watch the premiums. Hard to know how this thing is going to go down exactly so make sure you have a solid core going before you engage in all the other higher premium items.

Good Luck with the stacking and don't forget to keep some room available for Gold too. Personally I feel Silver is still very under valued but Gold is going to continue to make a lot of noise as our future comes more into focus.

Fri, Sep 16, 2011 - 9:49pm
SILVERHUNTER
Offline
Joined: Aug 31, 2011
14
6

What do you guys recommend as

What do you guys recommend as "recognizable" silver bars? Are Silvertowne, Sunshine, and NTR bad options? They are generally the least expensive online.

As far as gold goes, the PAMP Suisse 1oz. bars look like a good buy, thoughts?

When diversifying your Physical PM's I've heard 50/50 Gold/Silver a few times on this site. Does that mean 50oz's gold for every 50oz's silver or equal amounts based on todays value? $1900 in gold for every $1900 in silver...

Sat, Sep 17, 2011 - 8:06am SILVERHUNTER
Eric Original
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
4254
0

When people give Au/Ag ratios

When people give Au/Ag ratios they are always talking about $ value. Equal $ amounts in each for a 50:50 ratio.

Silvertowne, Sunshine, and NTR are fine.

In my coin shops you probably see 500 gold coins (of all types) for each gold bar you ever see. I'd stick with coins.

This isn't a metals blog anymore. It's a right wing circle jerk, masquerading as a metals blog.
Sat, Sep 17, 2011 - 11:25am Jake
bern
Offline
Joined: Jun 27, 2011
266
1221

Jake wrote: ... I buy

Jake wrote:

... I buy American eagles as they don't have the potential of showing scratches like pure gold coins such as Maples and Buffalos do. ...

The Gold Eagle uses the same specification as the South African Krugerrand. The Krugerrand generally has a smaller premium.

PM Bug
Sun, Sep 18, 2011 - 2:35am
SILVERHUNTER
Offline
Joined: Aug 31, 2011
14
6

Eric, are you suggesting

Eric, are you suggesting coins over bars with silver and gold? Or just gold?

I really like the smaller Gold Eagles and Maples, 1/2 and 1/4 oz. but they really get you with the premiums!

Any opinions on the America the Beautiful 50z bullion coins? They tend to be a little less per oz. than the ASE's...Is that more of a collector coin or good for stacking purposes too?

Sun, Sep 18, 2011 - 2:49am SILVERHUNTER
Eric Original
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
4254
0

SILVERHUNTER wrote: Eric, are

SILVERHUNTER wrote:

Eric, are you suggesting coins over bars with silver and gold? Or just gold?

I was just referring to gold on that part. With silver, coins or bars doesn't seem to matter.

If we have some fans of gold bars out there, please chime in. I'm just saying that I very seldom see any in my local shops, so I don't know if there's as much of a comfort level with them in the marketplace. With that in mind, for me I stick with coins based on the old "easier to sell" idea.

This isn't a metals blog anymore. It's a right wing circle jerk, masquerading as a metals blog.
Sun, Sep 18, 2011 - 2:59am SILVERHUNTER
Eric Original
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
4254
0

SILVERHUNTER wrote: I really

SILVERHUNTER wrote:

I really like the smaller Gold Eagles and Maples, 1/2 and 1/4 oz. but they really get you with the premiums!

If it's the Eagle or Maple design you like, I guess you are just going to have to pay! But if it is the smaller size you are after, without so much premium, you might check out the gold coins of Mexico. A Mex 20 Peso is .4823 troy oz, and they go proportionately smaller from there in 10, 5, 2.5, and 2 Peso size. A 2 Peso coin should be plenty small enough to please anyone.

This isn't a metals blog anymore. It's a right wing circle jerk, masquerading as a metals blog.
Sun, Sep 18, 2011 - 9:51am
SILVERHUNTER
Offline
Joined: Aug 31, 2011
14
6

Certainly lots of options and

Certainly lots of options and opinions, thanks again to everyone. I learn something new every time I log on!

Sun, Sep 18, 2011 - 10:56am donpaulo
Dr Durden
Offline
-
Twin Cities, MN
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
730
5371

donpaulo wrote: I absolutely

donpaulo wrote:

I absolutely hate ebay for metal purchasing. Way too many scams and ebay doesn't give a rats arse about you the customer.

Christ, here we go again. If you can't spot a scam on eBay just don't use the site....ever...cause you're a moron. And if you get had, then you deserve it......because you're a moron.

And you've got it backward: they're much more pro-customer than they are seller. Anyone new to buying metal on eBay needs to understand their Buyer Protection policies. I do see them making it better for sellers by nixing the insertion fees and running promos from time to time, but you have a far better advantage as a buyer than a seller IME.

I bought enough silver in the 3rd quarter of this year to earn a free 1/2 oz of gold ($900 in cashback). And I think I paid shipping maybe twice in 30-40 purchases. What a scam...I must be one of the morons....

Got GIABO? "It's called the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~George Carlin
randomness