What Bullion to buy?-question for the pro stackers.

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#1 Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 9:05am
SILVERHUNTER
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What Bullion to buy?-question for the pro stackers.

I'm a novice buyer and have a question for the pro's. What bullion do you recommend and why? There are so many options out there it's really hard for a novice like myself to make a decision. I've mainly been buying from APMEX but started looking on PROVIDENT too based on suggestions from this site. Here are my questions:

-Should I buy bars or coins?

-New or used?

-Does brand name matter?

Thanks in advance for the help!

Edited by: SILVERHUNTER on Nov 8, 2014 - 5:08am
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 9:33am
SILVERHUNTER
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A few more specific

A few more specific questions...

-NTR VS. SILVERTOWNE 10oz. Bars, any preferance? 

-Is the current sale on APMEX 1oz. bars at $.99 over spot a great buy?

Thanks!

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 9:40am
Brotha Bob
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I am no expert

I am no expert, but I look at the premium over spot and go for the cheapest. This limits rare numismatics coins, and special commemoratives. Those a fine for others, but my goal is to hold physical, and as much as I can. I do hold in either gold or silver, bars, Buffalos, Eagles, Maples, and coins from other assorted countries; some are fractional, too. Some very nice coins indeed. Any further purchases I make, I think will be in bar form, from an easily recognizable mint. Bars tend to have less of a premium, so I can stack more. But, what do I know?

May God Help Us All But, what do I know?
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 9:42am
Brotha Bob
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$1 over spot

$1 over spot is a great buy, I was looking at that too. Again, at this point, I want to stack as much as possible. So pay the least over spot as I can But what do I know?

May God Help Us All But, what do I know?
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 9:46am
Daredevil73
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New Stacker Here Too...

I don't really qualify for your request as a pro stacker but here are some of the concerns I've considered.

Core requirements in case I need to spend it directly if the dollar goes belly up

  • Easily recognizable hard to counterfeit items that the general public would trust for exchange
  • Smaller denominations (some 90% silver dimes up to 1 oz ASE's or Maples) so if silver goes to $500 oz I can still spend it without it being too cumbersome
  • I read in the forums here that fineness is important in Canada as taxes can be avoiding on high grade bullion (in some cases)

To that end, some items I've looked at:

  • 90% Silver Coin (pre-1965) - Low premiums to spot
  • American Silver Eagles's
  • Canadian Maples
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 10:32am
Brotha Bob
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Priorities

Daredevil has some good points. Set your priorities. For me; 1. Get as high a stack as possible. The premium over spot issue. 2. Gold or Silver? I have more Silver then Gold, in the end I don't think it will matter much. I think Silver will have a better run then Gold. But, having both is a good idea. 3. Variety. If it is the end of fiat, will an ounce of gold be equal to another ounce, or will some coins/bars be more valuable? This situation already exists in the price of Gold Rands, Eagles, and Maples. 4. Fractional. If PMs become the only means of trade, do you want to have to walk around with full ounces? But, what do I know?

May God Help Us All But, what do I know?
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 10:37am (Reply to #6)
SILVERHUNTER
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You make a few great points.

You make a few great points. I was leaning toward 10 oz. bars of silver for ease of stacking etc. but, I can see how multi oz bars could be hard to use if we indeed need them to buy groceries one day. 

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 10:48am
Eric Original
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Mostly I like whatever is cheapest

Mostly I like whatever is cheapest. And by cheapest I mean in relation to melt value. 90% silver U.S. coins (pre '65) are always a good value. Common brand silver coins or bars (NTR and Silvertowne both qualify) at spot plus .99 is a good price.

For gold, I lean toward older pre '33 coins. Both foreign and domestic. But that's really just the romantic in me. The new coins leave me cold.

In a pure financial calculation sense, look for the narrowest possible spread, per ounce, between the selling price and the buying price. APMEX makes this easy because they also show their buy prices.

This isn't a metals blog anymore. It's a right wing circle jerk, masquerading as a metals blog.
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 10:56am
Brotha Bob
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Thanks, SilverHunter

Thanks. I have no idea how the PMs and fiat turns out. Would rather be prepared for as many possible outcomes as possible. Again, any is better then none. Higher is better then shorter. But, what do I know

May God Help Us All But, what do I know?
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 11:02am
SILVERHUNTER
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I'm kinda leaning toward .999

I'm kinda leaning toward .999 fine for the majority of my silver and gold purchases, don't really have a good reason. Just something about the pure! 

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 11:03am (Reply to #8)
cris
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You get what you pay for

I go w Eagles and Maples. If you look, you will see the premium they had a few years ago is HIGHER now. And will be higher still in years to come. Here's a great article: https://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1196788997.php It's actually a two-fer, as there is also a novel idea for the housing crisis! That all being said, I also believe 90% "junk" silver is great to have.

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 11:21am
cris
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The premium on Eagles

Upon re-reading the article I linked above, one statement struck me: "when the silver shortage comes, the premium on Silver Eagles to the price of silver will be much greater than the total cost of an Eagle today." At the lows a decade or so ago, wasn't silver like $5-6/oz??? And isn't the premium today approaching that?? Note well: the linked article was written in 2007!! Prescient indeed.

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 11:49am
SILVERHUNTER
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Very interesting article

Very interesting article indeed, thanks for sharing. 

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 2:27pm (Reply to #10)
Brotha Bob
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Bullion vs Junk

Although the term junk is an unfortunate use of the word, I too prefer bullion. junk referring too older coins containing a percentage of silver. I can see an opportunity owning circulated silver percentage coins. Of which I know little, thus avoid. The higher the spot the more junk silver will shed it's misnomer. If I could not afford pure, I certainly would be accumulating as much junk as I could. Holding any amount is better then holding none at all. But, what do I know.

May God Help Us All But, what do I know?
Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 4:45pm
Rico
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Don't get carried away with

Don't get carried away with the apocalyptic stuff--if you're buying bread with PMs, you'll have bigger fish to fry, at that point. The reason to stack is simply to preserve the buying power of your savings.

I like to buy ASEs because they are really striking and beautiful coins. It is not necessary to pay the rip-off premiums bandied around, and I won't pay more than $3, and try to get closer to $2.5. I feel like that's worth it, in order to get the pretty coins. I have also bought Canadian Maple Leafs, which aren't quite as cool, but are still really nice coins, and the premium is less.

No question that maximum bang for the fiat is 100 oz bars. Sometimes you can get those for spot, and I wouldn't pay more than $.5-1/oz premium.

Eventually, you're going to figure out that silver can get really cumbersome, and decide to buy gold, too, to save space.

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 5:19pm
SilverFocker
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They call it junk

I call it opportunity. I have watched for several years, "junk" silver being melted not collected.

I like all different mixes' of silver, but what is going on now is an opportunity to get some great U.S. mint coins that will bring a good premium in the future to collectors.

This same event occurred in the 80's, it is repeating on a much higher scale now as the economy crumbles. I have seen the elderly sell because they must, I have seen the young sell because they stole it.

IMO, when all is said and done, good quality 90% will no longer be termed "junk", as the price to get it will be very high. Until then I will get all I can afford.

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 8:42pm
kingbee4
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I wanted the most silver for

I wanted the most silver for the dollar back when silver was $4.50 - $7 per oz. so I bought 100 oz bars. At that time, the $1.60 premium on a Silver Eagle would buy 1/3 an oz of silver. So the idea was to convert them later and pay the lower $0.40 on the 100 oz bars. Now the 100 oz. are not so easy to sell as some smaller dealers don't want to buy them. I am now trading the 100 oz bars for 1 oz generic mint coins and 10 oz bars. One way to "trade them" is to send them to a mint such as Quality Silver Bullion in Utah and they will mint them into nice rounds for $1.20 or less depending on the quantity.

I have bought a few silver Eagles (ASEs) but hate paying the high premium. If I were buying now, I would mostly buy the 1 oz and 10 oz. and junk silver. Another thought about buying ASEs. If they ever become currency like is now in effect in Utah, then you would not need to pay capital gains taxes. For this reason, just in case, I am also trading in a couple 100 oz bars for ASEs. 

Sun, Sep 4, 2011 - 9:31pm (Reply to #15)
SILVERHUNTER
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Rico wrote: Don't get carried

Rico wrote:

Don't get carried away with the apocalyptic stuff--if you're buying bread with PMs, you'll have bigger fish to fry, at that point. The reason to stack is simply to preserve the buying power of your savings.

I like to buy ASEs because they are really striking and beautiful coins. It is not necessary to pay the rip-off premiums bandied around, and I won't pay more than $3, and try to get closer to $2.5. I feel like that's worth it, in order to get the pretty coins. I have also bought Canadian Maple Leafs, which aren't quite as cool, but are still really nice coins, and the premium is less.

No question that maximum bang for the fiat is 100 oz bars. Sometimes you can get those for spot, and I wouldn't pay more than $.5-1/oz premium.

Eventually, you're going to figure out that silver can get really cumbersome, and decide to buy gold, too, to save space.

Thanks for your reply. Good advice. Where are you buying ASE's for $3 over spot, or less? My local coin shop, APMEX, and PROVIDENT medals are al higher. 

Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 6:45am
SILVERHUNTER
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Is there any benefit to

Is there any benefit to buying 2011 mint direct ASEs over random year "our choice" ASEs?

Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 8:24am (Reply to #19)
Eric Original
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SILVERHUNTER

It pretty much depends on your views about the premiums. There are two schools of thought:

  • That ASE premiums will be maintained over time, or even increase. In this case go ahead and pay up for the nicest ASE's you can get. New 2011's will be pristine, "Our Choice" ones might not be as nice. The nicest ones will recoup the best premium upon sale in the future.
  • That ASE premiums will degrade over time, and/or that recouping it will be difficult at the coin shop level due to the natural tarnish that is likely to get on your ASE's over time. Coin shops are unlikely to pay you a big premium for a less-than-pristine coin. In this case, if you still want ASE's, get the cheaper, "Our Choice" variety.
This isn't a metals blog anymore. It's a right wing circle jerk, masquerading as a metals blog.
Mon, Sep 5, 2011 - 8:46am (Reply to #19)
Rico
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SILVERHUNTER wrote: Is there

SILVERHUNTER wrote:

Is there any benefit to buying 2011 mint direct ASEs over random year "our choice" ASEs?

I would say to try to get the pristine if they can be bought for the same price (obviously not from the same dealer--unless you're a really good negotiatorwink). I think the 'snob' factor can't hurt resale, so might as well get it, if you can.

Re the low markup on PMs, I'm lucky to have local dealers that play ball with me, probably because they know I'm good for lots of business. If you don't mind dealing with lots of small buys, you can troll eBay on a regular basis, and find deals (not from the dealers). Finally, there's a big outfit in CA (can't remember the name) that typically advertises $2.79 over spot for ASEs, and I think others, too.

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