Welcome to the updated TF Metals Report! We hope you enjoy the new experience.

We've changed payment processors, so any existing renewals will need to be re-subscribed after expiration. You will receive an email when this happens. If you have any questions, send a message through the Contact page.

Problems of U.S. Health Care Are Rooted in the Private Sector, Despite Right-Wing Claims

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 11:21am
SushiSioux
Offline
-
New York, NY
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
141
2064

Problems of U.S. Health Care Are Rooted in the Private Sector, Despite Right-Wing Claims

https://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-&-columns/op-eds-&-columns/problem...

--------------

nationalize healthcare and make the lives of ordinary americans simpler.

Edited by: SushiSioux on Nov 8, 2014 - 5:05am
Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 2:15pm
tmosley
Offline
-
Lubbock, TX
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
1892
14945

In the strictest sense, there

In the strictest sense, there IS no private sector in US Health Care, and hasn't been for 100 years.

https://mises.org/daily/4276

Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 2:44pm
Jasper Puddlemaker
Offline
-
OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
222
1879

BS...

No thanks. I have had enough experience with the Canadian health care system, and the system here in the US, to know we don't need big brother running the show here.

Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 2:57pm
Pyrat
Offline
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
21
293

No Free Market in Health Care

The government is already heavily involved in health care in the US. There is no free market in health care, and neither establishment party is proposing to free it up.

For Example: 1) Physicians are licensed in a cartel arrangement in order to drive up the cost of medicine, 2) because of the tax code, most health insurance is tied to employment, 3) the health insurance companies are heavily regulated and mostly wrote the Obama care reform.

I'm more than highly skeptical that going to a centralized health care system would fix the problem of our current system. At the moment, most of the costs are being driven by a small percentage of very sick and very old patients. We could just kill all those people off and the system would save a lot of money. However, the old people vote, and the boomers are aging, which is going to make any rational reform difficult or impossible.

The more you look at the problems facing the US, the more obvious it is that a systemic collapse is the most probable outcome. Everyone is convinced that they can win through government by stealing from everyone else. It isn't mathematically possible, but no one seems to care. We'll just borrow the difference until we can't anymore.

Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 7:17pm (Reply to #4)
Jasper Puddlemaker
Offline
-
OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
222
1879

Pyrat wrote: The government

Pyrat wrote:

The government is already heavily involved in health care in the US. There is no free market in health care, and neither establishment party is proposing to free it up.

+1

That is a significant reason why costs are prohibitive. The amount of office staff necessary to handle the bureaucratic nightmare often times exceeds the number of medical staff attending to the patients.

Sat, Jul 23, 2011 - 4:52pm
Eternal Student
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
93
2162

Thanks

@SushiSioux: Thanks for posting that. The funny thing about the right wingers is that they scream bloody murder about government "death squads", never realizing that the current private sector death squads means that someone gets a bonus for denying you coverage, even if (or especially if) that means you die because of that decision.

That's the "for profit" motive at work for you.

@Jasper: You're only a fan of US Health Care because you can afford it. Many in the US cannot, and do without. Given the number of Americans who cross the border and attempt to get Canadian health care illegally, I'd say quite a number of people here disagree with you.

Here's a question for you. With the current rate of increases in health care premiums, how long do you estimate that you'll be able to afford American health care? And what are you going to do when it's no longer affordable?

Sun, Jul 24, 2011 - 12:43am
Vypuero
Offline
-
Philadephia, PA
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
1111
3999

Central Planning Always Fails

USA has centrally planned healthcare and so does Canada, so does Europe - they are all FAILURES. Only individual choice and responsibility work. Call it anything you want - but a few people cannot make better decisions than everyone individually making their own decisions for their own lives. It is also the only moral way to live, to trade value for value, and not to force people to you "plan" through threat of violence.

Sun, Jul 24, 2011 - 9:07pm (Reply to #6)
Jasper Puddlemaker
Offline
-
OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
222
1879

Eternal Student

Eternal Student wrote:

@Jasper: You're only a fan of US Health Care because you can afford it. Many in the US cannot, and do without. Given the number of Americans who cross the border and attempt to get Canadian health care illegally, I'd say quite a number of people here disagree with you.

Here's a question for you. With the current rate of increases in health care premiums, how long do you estimate that you'll be able to afford American health care? And what are you going to do when it's no longer affordable?

My point was that government controlled health care is not the answer because it would significantly lower our quality of care. I am not in favor of going backwards.

I would not consider myself a "fan" of US Health Care because I consider it to be a horribly overpriced entity. Affordable and quality health care is being regulated and litigated out of existence. What I am against is government-controlled health care systems. I have a fair amount of experience with the Canadian system from being around my in-laws (all Canadians), and am able to compare it to ours because of my background working in our system down here. For routine things it works ok, but at critical times it is horrible (long waits for diagnostics, poor care due to limited personnel, & other issues). England is worse. If we lower the bar by establishing similar systems some people will gain; others will lose. Eventually everyone will lose.

So my point was that the government, any government, regulating and running something is not the answer. You can't "fix" something by giving control to an entity that always ruins what it controls. Those who think government control of something is the answer simply have not studied history.

The best health care is affordable when a society is employed, frivolous litigation does not exist, and bureaucrats have a "hands-off" mentality. Not going to happen at this point.

OK...

"How long will I be able to afford health care?" and "What are you going to do when it's no longer affordable?"

Will find out soon. Our present system is not going to continue much longer. We are experiencing a monumental crisis that will have played out, at the latest, sometime in the next decade. I'm not referring to health care alone; I'm referring to our entire socioeconomic system. I don't know what we will find when we get to the other side, but I know we will be a vastly different society then.

Sorry for the length; tried to keep it as short as possible and still answer. Also, I don't know if your "right wing" comment was directed at me, but for the record I am libertarian in my social and political views.

Sun, Jul 24, 2011 - 9:19pm
Tom L
Offline
Joined: Jun 15, 2011
1339
6766

Blah Blah

And despite left-wing claims the system we have bears no resemblance to a 'free-market' in health care. Anyone who says it is is either 1) blind, 2) stupid, or 3) has a serious problem parsing the English language.

This is a non-starter of an argument. 

When we have a free market in health care and it fails to provide service, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. But, since freaking Progressives have systematically destroyed every market they've touched over the past 100 years or so[1], I'm not holding my breath waiting for the opportunity.

Ta,

[1] - this site is a prime example of just how much they've screwed up something as simple as money.

-- Support bacteria, it's the only culture some people have. Need Goats or Chickens? Say hello at: www.facebook.com/PirateDogAcres
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 - 9:44pm
Dr Durden
Offline
-
Twin Cities, MN
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
730
5371

There's "health" care in the

There's "health" care in the US? Since when? Last time I checked, we had a booming sick care system.

*stirs pot* 

Got GIABO? "It's called the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~George Carlin
Sun, Jul 24, 2011 - 10:06pm
Bobbi
Offline
-
XX
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
95
712

Here's a different perspective

I don't have a job and I don't have health insurance. Now, since I don't have a job I don't have the STRESS associated with said job. Folks, it is empowering to grasp this concept. Most illnesses are directly related to STRESS. 

/rant on:

Why is it that nearly everyone and their children are on some medication or another .. mostly anti-depressants?? Have you noticed the ever-ending new list of maladies/disorders that we never had before?? Has anyone done a cost-analysis of exactly WHO is running up the healthcare tab? It is women and dependent children of said women without husbands i.e. the destruction of family in this country is bankrupting us and MOST would rather blame baby-boomers (of which I belong and do not even use the system anymore, nor will I ever again.) Would it not be more productive to look to our past for natural remedies? Rather than just continue to support big government, big pharma ??

rant off/

Mon, Jul 25, 2011 - 11:57am
SushiSioux
Offline
-
New York, NY
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
141
2064

they could: 1) establish

they could:

1) establish uniform paperwork for medical billing and administration. other business sectors have this.

2) competition - allow qualified doctors to open practices in America. currently American doctors do everything to prevent qualified professionals from entering the country - unlike other industries.

3) bulk purchasing of medications by the government or allow private nonprofit cooperatives purchasing power

4) health insurance should be geared towards individuals versus group policies. no one expects their company to buy them car insurance. why do you expect health insurance to be offered through work? it's a job, not your family.

5) the amount of items that group insurance policies must cover needlessly drives up costs. they could eliminate several mandatory things in group coverage and reduce the costs. fertility treatments should never be covered a group health plan. if you want kids and are unfortunately having problems conceiving - that's not a collective problem that needs to be addressed. again by focusing on individual coverage you could tailor policy offerings easier.

Tue, Jul 26, 2011 - 11:03pm (Reply to #12)
Bobbi
Offline
-
XX
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
95
712

sushiSioux, I agree

Why in the Hell is business burdened with healthcare?? It should be an individual responsibility, just like car or life insurance. If this were the case, competition in the free market would bring prices down. If everyone didn't have the view "it's my right and I only have to pay the co-pay" and they actually were accountable for services received, it would be a win-win for us all.

Get the government the Hell out of our lives.

Wed, Jul 27, 2011 - 9:42am (Reply to #8)
Eternal Student
Offline
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
93
2162

@Jasper

Sorry, things have gotten real busy for me lately, which preclude a proper reply. I did want to answer this question though:

Also, I don't know if your "right wing" comment was directed at me, but for the record I am libertarian in my social and political views.

No, that was directed towards the Faux News crowd in general. I'm a fairly direct kind of guy, and would have mentioned you specificially had I intended it as such.

Fri, Jul 29, 2011 - 11:56am (Reply to #14)
Jasper Puddlemaker
Offline
-
OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2011
222
1879

"right wing"...

Eternal Student wrote:

No, that was directed towards the Faux News crowd in general. I'm a fairly direct kind of guy, and would have mentioned you specificially had I intended it as such.

Yes, thanks. I caught that after I had posted, but it was too late to edit. Wish there wasn't such a short time limit for editing sometimes.

Notice: If you do not see your new comment immediately, do not be alarmed. We are currently refreshing new comments approximately every 2 minutes to better manage performance while working on other issues. Thank you for your patience.

Become a gold member and subscribe to Turd's Vault

Contribute

Donate  Shop

The TFMR Silver Round
Best Price Online, Buy Gold and Silver Today!

Recent Comments

APPs ...
by Mickey, 12 min 26 sec ago
by AKA AuAgforever AIJ, 19 min 7 sec ago
by canary, 21 min 6 sec ago
by Turd Ferguson, 30 min 16 sec ago
by Turd Ferguson, 39 min 21 sec ago
by AGAU, 50 min 48 sec ago
randomness