There are several items in your above posts that one could write their differing beliefs upon. So I will just try to stick with this one: " I have entered debates pertaining to whether or not a human being is “divine”. Well, my answer is "yes and No".
I need to consider two words, divine and holy. Most of what we hear today is the use of "holy". The holy book, the holy father, his holiness, the holy site, the holy ground, the holy water (remember that one Mr. Fix?), the holy bible, the holy communion, etc.. What is it that makes a person, place or thing holy? Is it because something happened there at one time, an item that was prayed over, a people who spent some time in the SH bible college? There is only one thing that can make anything Holy and that is the current, right now, presence of the Lord. Nothing else!
The old temple had a true Holy of Holies in the third level of the temple and He was there within. Try entering that place without an invitation. YOUR D.O.A.! Once the Lord had left the temple at the time of the Cross, He no longer dwelled in a stone building but now lived within His People that would receive Him "within" as they became the new lodging of the Spirit of God. Yes I know Mr. Fix, the Jews want to build a third temple and they may have the ark of the covenant but how will they pull Jesus back from the Cross and get Him back into their holy of holies?? Will not happen. I must say that the Jews want a building for the Lord and the lost S.H.'s actually welcome people on Sunday mornings by saying "Welcome to the house of God". Oh what blindness! N.T. believers and stuck in the O.T. concepts and void of the understanding of the new covenant.
Back to the word "divine" before the above rant goes into full speed:
The word divine is easy to explain, it is just like pondering the word holy. Can a person be divine? There is only one test. It is not how they dress, where they live even if in a SH, it is not if they visit Mecca every year, it is not if they have titles or certificates of education. It is not even if they can quote the scriptures, have a t.v. ministry nor preaches in tent revival meetings. The test is : Has the Lord entered within that person and He resides there forever. The "divine" part of a man is not the man himself but the Lord Himself who has entered into the "House" as it is written that we are "the House".
This whole thing could be understood with just the concept, given by Christ, "You must be born again". WHY!
All of us were born in first Adam. Our parents were body ,soul and human spirit. However, they needed the effects of eating from the Tree of Life and Jesus is that Life. WE WERE ROBBED OF HIM UNTIL HE FINISHED THE WORK ON THE CROSS. (sorry for shouting but this is Sunday morning again as people head out for their pews.)
The Lord wanted Children from the beginning. He wanted billions of them and made a Way for them. But there was a problem. Adam and Eve were made from the created dust of the earth. Now Mr. Fix, I know that you have a daughter. If you had gone to the backyard to form her instead of the normal way, you would only have a step child at best. She would not look like either of you two, not have your habits nor that twinkle in her eye that your mother has. Well, they Lord wanted more also. What can He do? He had the answer, he had the Vision, the View. He will enter that person and deposit Himself within and now the "DIVINE" nature will reside within His Children. Oh what a wonderful event, I could just shout for Joy, even on this Sunday morning. I have the divine One within.
I must say that the test for whether a human can be divine is "has Christ entered within".
I will end with:
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves." 2 Cor. 4:7
I like the way you put the test for divinity.
Your post brought these two verses to mind.
When approached by a rich young ruler, and Jesus' response to his question;
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jesus was showing even His lesser nature unto the Father, prior to His ascension in deference.
That we somehow are equal or better than Jesus, to me seems a very prideful assumption, jmho.
Thank you for your reply, and addressing the topic of “holy”, and that of “divinity”.
On this particular topic, we have our differences, since I would go so far as to say that not only are “all of our creators children” are in fact “divine”, in that the essence of the Creator resides in all of them, but this also applies to every single other thing both seen and unseen in all of creation.
I've been meaning to write something that resembles an essay on the topic of “God's covenant with us”, which would be a tale of what really happened on Mount Sinai when Moses received his 10 “Commitments” from God.
Admittedly, this is a somewhat radical view, but it makes sense to me.
Let me attempt a short, abbreviated version here, because, I know I'm playing to an audience that won't buy any of it anyway.
Moses asked God “how will we know when we are approaching your kingdom”?
God responded to Moses “I will give you signs, so that you know you are coming home”.
What followed, were the “10 commitments”, God's promise to mankind of what they would experience.
One: I am the Lord your God, you shall not worship other gods. So why would you ever wish to worship any other God?
Two, you shall not worship false idols, so why would you ever want to pay homage to a statue?
Three: You shall keep holy the Sabbath, and take a day off every week, that's so you can reflect on your nature, and mine, eventually, you will find that all days are “holy”, and you will no longer find the need to toil mindlessly in your world.
Four: You will not take God's name in vain, because you will realize that this is impossible, because invoking the name of God always has consequences, when you ask God for something, you shall receive it, for this is the nature of consciousness, and how God's universe works.
Five: You will honor your mother and father for they gave you life in this world.
(Admittedly, I'm not there yet).
Six: You will find that when you are coming closer to God, you will not kill, since you will recognize everything, and everyone, as God's creation, And to do so, would be killing a part of yourself.
You shall not commit adultery, for you will recognize that we are all “one” anyway, and in many ways, it is analogous to:
Seven: you shall not steal, because everything of this world belongs to everyone in it, and everything that you possess is also of this world. The world is abundant, and you simply need to ask for what you want, there was never a reason to “steal”.
Eight: You will not lie, for you will have found no reason to, and will always find it in your own best interest to simply tell the truth. ( I personally find that “not lying”, and “not stealing”, the only two “laws” which should be mandated legally, at least in this way, humanity could at least get along with itself.
Nine: you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, in this day and age, why would you want to do that? even if you know that there are just simply other choices, and “more fish in the sea”, you will intuitively know to look elsewhere.
10: You will not covet your neighbor's goods, for that would be viewing your universe as one of lack, and not one of abundance. we also have the ability to create what we want, why would we want something that belongs to someone else?
I know the numbers did not work out.
Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure this is how it went down, since God issuing “Commandments” would be contrary to his gift of “free will”.
This also at least makes the “God of the old testament” consistent with the one that Jesus Christ spoke of in the new testament.
I could go on, but I think you get the gist of it.
Good morning, I posted to NVW's comment and then saw your next one.
You certainly are tenacious, it makes me smile, I don't really know what to say to your latest exposition of the gospel according to Fix.
I could give you a biblical evaluation of why it should be changed but that would not change the author that wrote it.
Mr. Fix all I can say is God is God, take Him or leave Him, for He is unchanging and eternal.
He is who He is, we cannot make Him into something we'd like to imagine Him to be.
It is wonderful that you have began to post on this forum. It gives many a chance to consider their own views and even have the courage to write a post.
Much of your view of the law ( the 10 given to ONLY the Jewish nation) are also the way I viewed them when I was in the RCC. Do we remember a few years ago when a judge wanted the 10 placed on a board within a courthouse? I think it was Georgia or somewhere. Oh what a fight for it by the N.T. Christians. For me just folly. I wanted a plaque placed on every wall, every school, every building, every home , every airport, etc. that had ten statements by Jesus. Such as:
You must be born again.
If you do not believe that I am Him, you will die in your sin.
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Me.
If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.
I am the Resurrection and the Life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.
Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
My sheep hear My Voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
"I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges Me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God".
Well, I think that is a small sampling of my ten. The basic difference is the difference in O.T. and N.T., Life and death, Pre-cross and the finished Work of the Cross.
My summation is just: I confess Him to all. Jim
Perhaps you should be about the business of 'making amends' to the Thread for jumping in here with a Public Response to a PM, and stinking the joint up with, what you know will be, divisive, invective, and demeaning rhetoric. You can chase your tail all you want, but please do it elsewhere. We ALREADY know how you feel about us, and how small-minded you believe us to be. We already know that, if your assumptions about us are correct, then 'we are, of all men, most to be pitied'!
Until I hear an apology from you, Mr. Fix, I will...'say a prayer, and save you a chair.' Bad manners, indeed! 'Nuff said...NotWorthyDale
Not worthy of a response, is the first thing that came to mind, for if “a thread of faith” is off-limits to discuss “faith”, then what possible place would that be?
If you truly believe that you are “not worthy”, Dale, then you never will be.
I've pissed off at least someone on each and every thread that I've participated in, why would this one be any different?
I fully realize that my views are far out of the mainstream, and that many people “of faith” would condemn me to death for what I believe.
This is exactly what I am referring to when I state “religion has caused more division upon mankind than anything else”.
I have had remarkably civilized discussions with most of the members on this forum, and although this is not a major focus of why I am here, I will not be avoiding such discussions for one malcontent.
So, there will be no apology coming from me for any of my posts, I take responsibility for all of them.
You can do what you wish with that, I suggest that you use the “ignore user” button now, it might help bring you peace of mind in the future.
I was pondering, Prayer.
Prayer is such a Blessing, a direct line to the throne room of God, we have this access to Our Father in Heaven through God's boundless Grace and the redemptive work Jesus accomplished on the cross of Calvary.
It was an accomplishment not a defeat, for Jesus to submit and allow His captors to kill Him.
It was a victory over death and sin, performed by the only one who could do it, Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God.
A Victory for all mankind.
Jesus' Blood Atonement, His victory allowed for a separated mankind to regain God's ear, through the ultimate Love and Devotion of a perfect Son, obedient, willing and able, to give Himself unto his murderous defilers, a religious mob of self centered Pharisees and Sadducees.
These 'religious men' sought to retain their positions of privilege and power by denying the Christ, the Son of God and killed Him.
'Religious' men, Clergy of all stripes, have been doing the same thing, denying Christ, and God ever since.
They put their positions of Power and Privilege in their Church above God and God's will.
They involve themselves in earthly concerns, Politics, Wars, accumulation of Wealth, and let the souls of men perish for lack of Truth.
These are false shepherds leading loving lambs to slaughter, I rebuke them in Jesus Name.
God's Will is for the Gospel, the Good News of Kingdom of God, here on Earth, to be spread to the four corners of the Earth, to ears of gentle Souls and tender Hearts.
The Good News of Salvation, the penalty of sin purged forever by Jesus' redemptive work at the cross at Calvary.
This intercessory work by Jesus, this free gift, allows all who accept Jesus as the Son of God, to be able to receive God's Holy Spirit within, to communicate through Prayer, to worship and speak with God 'one on one' as it was in the Beginning.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Praying to God in the Spirit, allows a personal relationship with God to develop, as in any personal relationship it takes a while to get to know one another, as your Prayer life grows so does your relationship with God.
In prayer God will reveal his true loving nature, you don't have to guess what your Father is like, you just ask Him.
Worship through Prayer brings a closeness, a heart to heart awareness of an Awesome Beautiful Love, a Beloved Loving Father, devoted to your well being, embodying unspeakable Joy.
God is an intensely bright Spiritual Being, the Source of Pure Love and Holiness, magnificent and wonderous, powerful beyond comprehension.
This is just a glimpse that God has allowed me to experience, in my communion with Him.
To truly witness God in His Sanctuary is impossible, in my opinion, until fully washed and cleansed, and even then Jesus has to have finished his work within your spirit, and made you clean and refined.
Some day soon however, every eye shall see the Glory of God, as the sky parts, and Jesus returns.
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."
The Lamb of God, and The Lion of Judah are both titles of Jesus, the second Advent brings the Lion as seen in the above Scriptures.
God's will be done, even so, Come Lord Jesus Come.
Well I am back and you missed out on a great meal, fellowship, teaching/preaching by the many men and the breaking of bread along with the cup.
So after reading the posts above all I can do is quote :
Bias, one of the seven wise men, being in a storm with wicked men who were cried mightily to God, "Hold your tongues", said he, "it were better He knew not you were here:" a saying that hath great doctrine in it; the devotion of the wicked doth them no good: it answers to that passage in scripture, "The prayers of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord" (Prov. 15:8). An ungodly man asking him what godliness was, he was silent: but the other murmuring, saith he, "What is that to thee, that is not thy concern?" He was so tender in his nature that he seldom judged a criminal to death but he wept; adding, "One part goeth to God, and the other part I must give the law." That man is unhappy," saith he, "that cannot bear affliction. It is a disease of the mind to desire that which cannot, or is not fit to be had. It is an ill thing not to be mindful of other men's miseries." To one who asked what is hard, he answered, "To bear cheerfully a change for the worse." Those, says he, "who busy themselves in vain knowledge, resemble owls that see by night, and are blind by day; for they are sharp-sighted in vanity, but dark at the approach of true light and knowledge." He adds, "undertake deliberately; but then go through. Speak not hastily, lest thou sin. Be neither silly nor subtle. Hear much; speak little and seasonably. Make profession of God everywhere; and impute the good thou dost, not to thyself, but to the power of God." His country being invaded, and the people flying with the best of their goods, (that is their bugout bags of old), asked why he carried none of his: "I" , saith he, "carry my goods within me." amen
Well, one may think I am sending this to this mornings posters but that is only a bit of the Truth. I need it for myself as there is much to learn from wise men of old. Jim
Sorry I am late to the party but here is my 2 cents………
Been following the exchange between you and NW and as NW suspected, I would like to take a swing at your questions.
Let me first say I don’t remember where I left you with the impression I chastened you…..
“I was politely chastised for doing good works with selfish motives”.
If you are referring to my comment at the end of a post to “go do something good and wonderful” that was sincere, and not meant to be a rebuke in any way. I apologize, if I came across this way. In that post I was just taking a differing view on the nature of man, if I remember right, that’s all, but I already know we are miles apart on the nature of God and mankind.
We should do good; anyway, anytime, and in any form when we have the ability to do such, no question about it. But my point was that in the area of salvation and the redemption of mankind, man’s ‘good works’ are irrelevant. That is basically what all ‘religions’ teach.
Do enough good, and at the end of one’s life, the good, will be placed on one side of the scale and on the other will be the bad. And if the ‘good’ out weights the ‘bad’, then all is well, and one will be acceptable to God, ready, fit, and headed for heaven. That ‘Theology’ is in essence, just another form of self – righteousness at its very core.
Ask the average Joe on the street; that is basically what most people will tell you in one form or another.
NW is right I would love to take a swing at this one below, and it’s a long discussion, yet I will try to not get too long but it could fill numerous posts to do it justice.
Is God wrathful or judgmental?
“As I have often stated, I do not believe in any such concept as “God's wrath”. The God as portrayed in this video seemed both judgmental and vindictive. I do not attribute such traits to the God that I know.”
One of the very definitions of word ‘God’ is………. Judge. Sorry, but that is what it means.
Yet at the same time 1 John 4:7-8 tells us the ‘God is Love’. Are the authors confused?, is this a contradiction?, is God dyslexic? How are these two attributes able to coincide within the same being, be it God or even mere man? Deep questions Fix, but then I know you are not afraid of the deep end of the pool.
Rather than go all theological on this answer, as I realize there are many differing peoples reading in I will try to keep it in a frame work that will benefit all and try to keep it as void of big theological terms as I can.
I have posted much of this before, yet much needs to be stated again as a preface. The God of the Bible, the God of scripture, the I Am, that I Am is real, knowable and personal. He is the creator of all we see, feel, taste, and touch. He is not a ‘force’, ‘energy’, or ‘the cosmos’ as Sagan used to imply, be a real, actual, personal, and unfathomable Being.
Kudos Fix, there is intelligent design behind this world and universe, and it is the Great I AM that is responsible. Anyone who buys into the ‘theory of evolution’ is exercising more faith than any Christian, resting their eternal state on a house of cards.
This God is a tripartite God, God the Father, God, the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Don’t ask me to explain that, I cannot, I can just testify that it is absolutely true as I know Him, personally.
His essence is Pure Good, Pure Truth and Pure Love. There is no shadow, variableness or imperfection in any aspect of His character, or flaw in Him what so ever. He is not becoming more of a God or less, He is eternal and unchanging. Scripture is very clear on this.
God likewise created man as a tripartite being, Body, Soul and Spirit. These terms are synonymous with, Flesh, Mind and Heart, they are interchangeable. Yes Fix, we were created in the image of God, with a direct connection to the creator and it was a ‘Love type / based connection’. Mankind was never created to die, yet death entered the human race when Eve was deceived and Adam willfully sinned, mankind fell and stopped loving in Truth.
Anyway, to your question Fix… Is God wrathful?? Or even Judgmental?
Short answers, yes, He is Fix, He does Judge and He does exercise His wrath, yet He is also, loving, gracious, kind, and merciful. If He is good, then by nature, He must also be Just. You cannot be good and not also just at the same time. We will get to that later.
First of all there are many types of ‘God’s wrath’, I know when you hear that word ‘wrath’ Fix you immediately think of fire and brimstone, and a gaping molten hot pit that was pounded into your head by the RCC, Hell basically. Actually there are many types of God’s wrath and these wraths are basically outflows out of His just and righteous judgment. Judgment against sin and this wrath is meted out in differing ways and degrees depending on where one is at in the program of ‘Life’.
Before we get to those we need to walk through a mine field you have created for yourself. That mine field contains the questions and issues on the topics as to whether there is such a thing as Absolute Truth, and is there such a thing or concept as Justice and Mercy, and if so, how can these attributes be reconciled within any being, let alone God Himself.
I will not retype all out old discussions as to the nature of Truth; I get it, you see everything as relative and subjective to every individual. Your path is not my path, the Christians is not the Buddhist, the atheist’s is not the humanist’s and who is to say what is ‘right or what is wrong’ to another. Right?
So you are left with a quagmire because then Justice is then also relative No?
Question Fix; you and every other person on Main Street rails against the ‘EE’ and Bankster’s. If so, why is their financial oppression wrong?, if your view of truth reality differs from theirs, as to Truth and justice, why is yours superior or correct? Hummmm.
Democratic vote of the Trudites?, or do you know this internally by your conscience??
Will they come back as greeters at Wal-Mart in the next life for oppressing the masses through Fiat currency or are they headed for a correct and horrendous judgment for what they have done?
I don’t want to deviate from your original question of wrath so we won’t go down those other trails right now, but there is Transcendent Moral Truth and it emanates from somewhere. It is relegated or written on everyone’s heart in the consciences. Anytime one rejects Divine Truth, the Spirit of God withdraws itself and error enters.
If God is pure and also just, He cannot abide or reside in the presents of sin or evil, then we have a problem. Hell was never created or intended to be a final abode of man. It was in fact created for Satan and his fallen angles; you at times have even said you would cast some of his minion’s there- the bankster’s, if you could. No?
If you were able to do such Fix; would you then be acting justly and wrathful yourself No?. ????
One type of wrath, which I have posted on, is found in Romans chapter 1
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness” Rom 1:18.
This type of wrath Fix involves judgment for choices and bad decisions in this life, present tense, and it is nothing more than God ‘giving mankind over’ to the consequences of those bad choices. We read God gave them over, God gave them over, God gave them over, three times progressively due to Idolatry, then to sexual sin, then to a reprobate mind due to rebellion against His revealed Truth.
Example; God intended sexual relations to be between and man and women in the covenant of marriage, it one violates that, one exposes oneself to STD’s, unwanted pregnancies, AIDS, the whole gamut, those consequences are nothing more than a form of ‘wrath’ against these ‘sins’.
This type of wrath is also nothing more than God withdrawing himself and letting mankind go on his natural downward bent, by not intervening on his behalf. When one gets to a reprobate mind, that is a very dangerous place as there is no way back from there. If reason is lost, one is in big trouble.
There is also eschatological wrath that will be poured out during the 70 week of Daniel, or the Great tribulation, this wrath is also meant to bring mankind to repentance but it indicates many will not do so, even in the face of horrendous calamities coming upon the earth. We are approaching this type of wrath soon but I will skip that on for now, as I understand that the gist of you question has to do with eternal wrath.
How can God exercise this type of wrath, eternal wrath and still be Good or Just?
As the scripture says, ‘God is not willing that and should perish, but that all should come to repentance.’ II Peter 3:9
Truth be told; is that God is longsuffering and withholding that aspect of His charter, (His wrath) as long as possible to allow all of us rebels to come into His kingdom.
The real problem is, since the fall, all mankind, lies, steals, kills, and commits all sorts of immoral sexual acts, etc, etc, etc. How can these parties, A Holy God and a fallen man ever be brought back together into a right and peaceful relationship, or stated another way, would God be just if he were not to cast all mankind into the abode meant for Satan.?
Like I have posted before, say one is brought before a judge, for rape and murder, and you know the judge to be a good and just man. The perpetrator knows he is guilty and petitions the judge to let him off because he know the judge is a ‘good and just man’ and could not possibly therefore be ‘wrathful’
The judge would say, “you are right about one thing I am a good and just man and because of this fact, I am going to see you are punished to the full extent of the law”.
Say you’re a family member of the victim and the judge caves and lets the guy off scot free, what would you say to the judge?, he would be worse morally than the criminal he just freed? Hummm….
You see Fix, the very thing that most sinners are counting on to save them in the Day of Judgment, the Goodness of God, will be the very thing that condemns them. The fact that God is good ought not to bring comfort to the unbeliever, but terrify him.
I used to go speak to the Muslims in to local Mosques with a friend, they believe in Monotheism, one God, Allah, they also believe in sin, and they also believe in Hell. When you ask them if Allah is just they say yes, Allah is just. If you ask them it they commit sins, most will admit they do commit sins.
When you ask them how Allah could be just, and at the same time forgive or overlook their sins, they are at a loss for words. The same is true in the Christian Faith. If God is Holy and Just, how can he pardon and forgive a fallen and sinful mankind and not violate any or all aspects of His character???
Hummm…….. Think on that one and respond please?
Truth be told Fix, every sin, and I mean every sin, ever committed, every lie, every theft, every rape, every murder, every crime against God or another human being or even any unloving act of any sort, will be punished, this includes all sins of commission and all sins of omission. Those sins mankind does to each other and those sins of what we have not done, for each other, but should have. Scripture declares this.
I don’t know about you, but supposes you had a video camera following you Fix, all you life recording all and everything you have done openly and in secret. Yikes…
Let’s dial it up another notch…. Suppose that camera could record not only your conduct and actions but also your thought life…. All of it….
Now suppose you had a room full of people you knew, family friends, acquaintances, (let alone a Holy and just God), and they played both films in front of them. I would venture to say if your like me you would be running for the nearest exist before the credits started rolling. No?
Ask yourself, if God was just and judged one honestly on those films based on even but a few minutes of them, would one be guilty or innocent before a Just and Holy God?
That fact, is why the majority of this world know they have to get rid of the God, and Truth of God, judgment, accountability etc, etc, etc. Yet there is no real need to.
The Lord already knows all of this, and has done everything necessary to rectify and bridge the ‘Great Gulf Fixed’ between a sinful fallen mankind and a Just and Holy God without violation of any aspect of the perfection of His Charterer. That solution is the Cross of Calvary.
“Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.” Psalm 85:10
The only way mankind can be made righteous and whole is not buy any works of the flesh, but by faith in what God and God alone has done. Jesus never leaves one the option of Him just being a ‘good moral teacher’ He repeatedly claimed to be equal with God, one is essence, power authority and honor with the Father, and one in Spirit with Him, the Great I AM incarnate, with the power to rectify what we never could on our own.
That is why Israel rejected Him and killed Him. If He was not who he claimed to be, then Jesus was the most deceived and deceptive of liars of all time. He does not leave anyone the option of Him just being a ‘good moral teacher’. He was and is God, the great I AM in Human flesh
That is why it is said for the believer in Christ….
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” I Thess 5:9.
Jesus Christ took every drop of the just and righteous judgment of God, His wrath due all of us at Calvary.
NW or even I can’t save you, what we write can’t save you; even the Bible in a sense, can’t save you. It’s is just a testimony of the God, the living God, that I am describing and testifying to you with my own feeble words.
The Bible is a Testimony of both God and Christ, yet you must come to Him, He does not act apart or inconsistent with any part of it, yet He is separate from it.
Anyone who rejects what He has done will suffer His wrath for all eternity after death;. Fix, you are right about one thing, all mankind is eternal, and will never go out of existence. If one rejects ‘so great a salvation’, to save any of us, ask yourself what more could He had done.??
In my mind Fix, you are asking the wrong question, you are wondering why God would be wrathful against anyone that rejects the His Gospel and the redemption He provided in His Son. The real question is why He does save anyone from His wrath, we all deserve it. I guess that’s why He calls it Grace.
Ponder back on those two movies we talked about above and it may bring some clarity to the question just posed.
“Every Human being, is in the process of becoming a Nobel being, Nobel beyond imagination or else, alas, a vile being beyond redemption. The dullest and most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day, be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly be tempted to worship, or else, a horror and corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. There are no ordinary people. It is immortals that we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit, immortal horrors, or everlasting splendors.” C.S. Lewis - The Way to Glory.
These excellent videos posted by NWD address the OT vs the NT, or the seemingly two different Gods in a very thorough answer give at around 37 minute mark on the second video.
Kudos NWD for all those videos very informative.
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."
Greetings and Blessings All
Ps some really excellent posts Guys, Thanks
Am watching now
Silver66 Rage against the dying of the light
I was just looking for something “spiritual”,
I'm always open to answers to the question of Old Testament versus New Testament/gods personality.
Edit: The explanation:
I even caught the explanation as to why all of humanity is held responsible for the sins of Adam,
I almost immediately had flashbacks of sitting in religion class back in grammar school.
I'm sorry, I wish I could take these guys more seriously, (really), but between their laughter, they painted God as a schizophrenic, with multiple personality disorder, who changes the terms of his covenant because of changing times. This has about as much validity to me as listening to Joel Olstein's wife, as whatever “feels good today".
I'm simply not going to do very well with “biblical interpretation”.
Back to “connecting the DOTS”.
Osiander (1551) said:
Most men" he said, “dislike a teaching which
lays upon them strict moral requirements that check their natural desires.
Yet they like to be considered as Christians, and listen willingly to the
hypocrites who preach that our righteousness is only that God holds us
to be righteous, even if we are bad people, and that our righteousness is
without us and not in us, for according to such teaching, they can be
counted as holy people.
Woe to those who preach that men of sinful walk cannot be consid-
ered pious; most are furious when they hear this, as we see and experi-
ence, and would like all such preachers to be driven away or even killed,
but where that cannot be done, they strengthen their hypocrite preach-
ers with praise, comfort, presents and protection, so that they may go on
happily and give no place to the truth, however clear it may be, and thus
the false saints and hypocritical preachers are one the same as the other;
as the people so their priests. " page 148
Now that is some powerful preaching that will get one thrown out of the system. The days will come where the millions that believed the false gospels of today, will storm the buildings with a stick in hand, but it will be to late. Just as Jeremiah 8:20 has stated long ago: "The harvest is past, the summer has ended, and we are not saved." Jim
on Noah. 3 1/2 hours and quite the production. Thanks to whoever posted it
Plato, that famous philosopher and scholar to Socrates, was so grave and devoted to divine things, nay, so discreetly politic, that his commonwealth he would not so much as harbour poetical fancies, much less upon stages, as being too effeminate, and apt to withdraw the minds of youth from more noble, more manly, as well as more heavenly exercises. Plato, seeing a young man play at dice, reproved him sharply; the other answered, "What! for so small a matter?" "Custom," saith Plato, "is no small thing: the idle hours be spent more usefully. Let youth," said he, "take delight in good things; for pleasures are the baits of evil. Observe, the momentary sweetness of a delicious life is followed with eternal sorrow; the short pain of the contrary, with eternal pleasures." Being commanded to put on a purple garment by the king og Sicily, he refused, saying he was a man, and scorned such effeminacies. Inviting Timothy, the Athenian general, to supper, he treated him with herbs, water, and such spare diet as he was accustomed to eat. Timothy's friends next day, laughing, asked how he was entertained, he answered, "Never better in life;" for he slept all night after supper: thereby commending his temperance. He addicted himself to religious contemplations: and is said to have lived a virtuous and single life, always eyeing and obeying the mind, which he sometimes called, "God, the Father of all things;" affirming, "Who lived so should become like Him, and so be related to, and joined with the Divinity itself." This same Plato, upon his dying bed, sent for his friends about him, and told them the whole world was out of the way, in that they understood not, nor regarded the mind, assuring them those men died most comfortably that lived most comformably to right reason, and sought and adored the First Cause, meaning God.
Thanks William Penn for that great view of Plato. We may see him at the picnic table. Jim
Thanks for posting the video
I enjoyed it
I see the flood as a love story because God loved us so much he had to make sure his creation, man, his bloodline remained unpolluted to make sure the bloodline/lineage that carried Yeshua would be pure.
Gen chapter 6 is the key to the pollution of mans DNA/Bloodline and for this reason God decided to send the flood to save mankind. I believe it was this or wipe out the entirety of mankind altogether and this was the only way God could ensure that the polluted intermingling of fallen angels with human woman was stopped before no pure bloodline existed.
The pollution happened again after the flood but did not enter the bloodline/lineage of Yeshua.
Also when God told his people to go in and kill every man, woman, child and beast before they took possession of the land was not because God was wrathful, hateful, vengeful or mean. God did this because they had a polluted bloodline and did not want his peoples bloodline polluted.
So you see, this too was a love story too, to make sure Yeshua could come and be the Saviour. If Yeshua's bloodline had been polluted he could have never been born to save mankind.
Just be aware as the bible says:
Matthew 24:37- But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luke 17:26-And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
This is/will happen(ing) again and I believe it has already started.......be prepared, read your bible.....
Luke 21:26-Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
I personally don’t think that you look at things differently; I think you look at things correctly. IMO.
The Love of God, the Agape of God, the love of Great I AM, is so radically different from our normal, natural, human, fallen love, that when it is expressed and manifested, it often does not look, seem, or even appear to be ‘Love’ at all. That is why the 'world' is confused by it.
Hi Jeremiah Jr,
Sorry it's taken me a couple days to get back to you on all of the questions you asked in the post I'm replying to, I've been busy.
I can't remember the specific instance that brought on this quote: “I was politely chastised for doing good works with selfish motives”.
It might have been in the context of what I do for a living, in that I generally do far more than I am paid for, but I can give you a good example of where I did “good works”, and the results were emotionally devastating.
Around about 30 years ago, I was dating a young lady with whom I was completely and totally in love with, and it was my intentions to marry her. We spent nearly all of our free time together over the course of a couple of years, and most of our friends were mutual, as we often traveled together pretty much everywhere.
At one point, she expressed a desire for a classic “old muscle car”, somewhat like the one I was driving, only faster. I personally knew that the guy who does my inspections had a 1969 Mustang Mach 1 that was in need of serious restoration, but it had a spectacular drive train, and it fit the description of “classic muscle car” to a T.
So I purchased the car for cash, it was only a couple thousand dollars, but then I spent the next three or four months making it perfect in every way. By the time I was done, it was literally show room, and I had by then spent many thousands more on it, but more importantly, it was a labor of love, and I really put my heart and soul into it.
So I gave it to her, signed it over to her and all, it was her car now. Later that night, she had a new boyfriend, and I was completely devastated. Her only explanation was “I only see you as a friend”, and quite frankly, this is just one example of a pattern that had already played out countless times before.
I could not blame her, for like I just said, this was my pattern, and I was the only common denominator in it. So what went wrong? It might have had something to do with being raised in an environment that I was constantly condemned for just being alive. It started with my mother, who wished I wasn't born, held me responsible for destroying her life, but then it was continued in Catholic school, where I was taught about “original sin”, and then all of God's rules and regulations, whereby if I didn't abide by all of them I would “burn in hell”. Of course, the nuns had a way of adding to “God's demands”, such as, failing a math test, or not completing my homework, or forgetting to put on my tie in the morning, I was labeled as “bad”, and not deserving of God's love. I've been told “you're going to burn in hell” a 1000 times.
As time went on, it is not hard to imagine that I came to believe I was quite “unlovable”. Despite this, I still strive to do the right thing. But as it turns out, my motives were selfish. I was looking for love in all the wrong places, things that seem to come so naturally to everyone else, seemed impossible for me. This actually created a scenario whereby I could not even believe it was possible that I was loved, therefore, I could not see it. For me, love became something that “had to be earned”, but despite paying the price, all I ever wanted was always denied.
Of course, all I wanted was for the relationship to continue, but since this was impossible, all I wanted to do was die. This time, there was no drinking the pain away, just seeing her, I would go into convulsions. I knew I had some severe problems, and I knew that I was going to have to deal with it by myself.
A few years of AA meetings helped, debating theology and biblical doctrine with the Jehovah's Witnesses past the time, but at the time, they went from the premise that the Bible was to be taken literally, and I was under the assumption it was metaphorical in many ways.
But eventually, I just abandoned the whole thing as pointless, I bought and paid for an audiocassette series by Wayne Dyer, and I started attending a “Course In Miracles” workshop/study group, and quite frankly, I somehow put the pieces back together again, but in an entirely new way, I adopted a philosophy that wasn't based in shame and guilt, I came to believe that I was born quite perfect, and that the circumstances of my life to that point had brought me to this place.
So I spent this past summer restoring a car that I've been driving for 36 years, another 69 Mustang, gave it to my daughter, no strings attached. Nothing has brought me more joy.
Maybe it's because I was in the middle of this, taking a highly significant, and life altering event, and in many ways, reliving it. But the difference, was motive.
On to the next great quote, one that I'm sure we disagree on, but here goes anyway: “but my point was that in the area of salvation and the retention of mankind man's “good works” are irrelevant that is basically what all “religions” teach.
No, this is basically just what Christianity teaches, to say that “good works are irrelevant in the area of salvation”, is an assertion that I reject wholeheartedly. Exactly where in the Bible did Jesus Christ come up with that idea? Since I'm working from the premise that Jesus Christ stated that "the kingdom of heaven is within all of us", and he also stated that “the kingdom of heaven is all around us, but few men can see it”, then if by “salvation” you mean “entering the kingdom of heaven”, then I would assert that the only way to achieve that would be through genuine “good works”. (Admittedly, I'm quoting the gospel of Thomas, which is nothing but an eyewitness account of what Jesus Christ actually said) also, as I have asserted on multiple occasions, after “the Council of Nicaea”, I think attributing a collaboration between the Roman government and the Vatican as “the one and only true word of God”, is something that I simply cannot accept.
It's not just all the Gospels that got edited out of the final text, a lot of the Scripture going all the way back to Genesis reeks of mythology with an agenda.
Let's take original sin for example, Adam and Eve made a choice, probably the first choice ever made in the history of humanity, and with that, human beings have the capacity to do both good and evil. This is exactly what free will means. If they had not eaten the fruit of that tree, and had not made that choice, then none of us would have any choice in anything, for what would life be without free will? And why would God give us free will, and then condemn us to eternal damnation if we make the wrong choice? What kind of plan is that? Condemning all of Adams offspring for his “sin”, is not justice, is an agenda to condemn mankind to live in guilt and shame. It's much easier to maintain a race of slaves, if they all think they deserve it.
Making the wrong choice has consequences, this has always been true. In essence, if you do the right thing, the right things happen. If you do the wrong things, there are consequences. This does not require God's wrath, it is just the natural order of things, predictable outcomes for aberrant behavior.
Recently in one of your replies to me, you asked me about what would happen if a man tried to rape my daughter, and would it be right for the judge to pass sentence on him. First off, it's not likely it would get that far, my daughter is highly skilled at self defense, and it is unlikely that such an attempt would be survivable.
If in the event he did survive, he wouldn't last much longer than me knowing about it, then this person would quietly cease to exist. See what I mean? Is God's “wrath” required? I say no. Is a judge required? Again, I say no. These are just simple consequences to someone's actions, nothing more, nothing less.
Excuse me if I don't address every one of your questions, it's well after midnight, and I have to drive into Manhattan at 7 AM, not one of my favorite things to do. But this was a good one, and I'm kind of surprised that the answer isn't obvious, but I'll give it a go anyway.
“Question Fix: you and every other person on Main Street rails against the “EE” and Banksters. If so, why is there financial oppression wrong? If your view of truth really differs from theirs, as to truth and justice, why is your is superior or correct?
Okay, in the immortal words of Puck T. Smith, “don't lie, and don't take other people's stuff”.
Since the bankers entire business plan along with all “government operations”, is based entirely on fraud, deception, and theft, while simultaneously returning absolutely nothing of value whatsoever, I think it's fairly easy to argue that I have the higher moral ground here.
Now in the interest of freeing humanity from enslavement, I personally have no objections to seeing them all hanging from lamp posts. (Preferably after they are tarred and feathered). Once again, would that be “God's wrath”? Or, just a consequence of their actions? If the truth of their deceptions ever became widely known, it is unlikely they would have any power anyway. For good explanation of this, go back to the very first post in the forum "DOTS", it's a video called “DOTS”.
Your next question pertained to God's judgment, and justice, and I say again, God is a creator, not a judge. He created a universe, that works on laws. These laws are no different then the law of gravity, if you defy these laws, there will be consequences, just like walking off a cliff. These are actually quite predictable outcomes, they do not require judgment, or punishment. If heaven is all around us, and inside all of us, then so is hell.
By getting your own thinking right, you can experience paradise before you die, this has been taught by all spiritual masters throughout history, including Jesus Christ. One of the most important teachings, is to “judge not”. The one thing that I have learned to be true, is that life is just a reflection of what's inside of us, and I have noticed that my own “judgments” are a much better description of me than anyone else.
As far as having a video camera recording all of my actions, why don't we just call it “ The Mr. Fix Reality Show”, and broadcast it 24/7 on all the major networks?
I gave up concerning myself with what other people think of me a long time ago, I am who I am. As stated on many of my posts, I break laws on a daily basis, I'm not proud of this fact, but I'm not ashamed of it either. My actions might actually get me incarcerated, if they were videotaped, but I would not in any way shape or form be the least bit concerned about “God's judgment”. As I have previously stated, the vast majority of how I earn my living, and provide for my family, requires licenses that I simply do not possess. Where I live, if I was caught, I could be incarcerated for up to 10 years, a $10,000 fine, have my car and all my tools confiscated, and those are the chances I take.
But I simply will not comply with laws specifically designed to extort from me the proceeds of my efforts, and even though some of the really “stupid” amongst us might consider this theft from the state, from my perspective, I simply refuse to enable a system whose only revenue is derived from theft.
Now back to the camera, you ask what would happen if it recorded my thoughts as well?
Surprisingly enough, you are reading my thoughts now, and they really do not change all that much when I log off. (Of course some of them do get somewhat technically challenging, I tend to visualize solutions to perplexing problems before I take my tools out and start trying to fix anything).
Occasionally, I've been known to engage in a little bit of retaliatory name-calling, once again, I'm not proud of it, it's just where I am at, and anyone can read it on the pages of this website. I really am who I say I am.
So once again, since you keep dialing it up a notch, what if all of my family, friends, were watching such a video of me, in my darkest moments, would I be running for the exits before the credits?
First off, I have nothing to do with my family of origin, and they have nothing to do with me. My marriage is on the rocks, and it's not from hiding anything, I get along fine with my daughter, in many ways, we are much alike, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
My phone rings all day long, it is always people who want me to go somewhere, and solve a problem for them. I suppose some of them wouldn't mind having me as a friend, but the feeling is not mutual. In actuality, I live the life of a loner, who has many acquaintances.
At night, when I am alone, and things are quiet, I usually put on my headphones, listen to a guided meditation, contemplate its meaning, and then pass out before the sun rises. It would be a very, very boring video. If the video ran long enough, for example all day long, most of the people in the room with me watching it, would also be in it.
Sometimes I fantasize about that myself, I would love to videotape conversations with my wife, they are both insulting and humiliating, and it is all direct it at me, but if the camera were to pan to me, for a reaction, there wouldn't be any, just me sitting there, with a very blank stare on my face.
Now, I think you could visualize pretty much everything on the video yourself, (I've been called a "miracle worker" three times in the past week by customers), don't forget to get that on video too.
To wrap this up, yes, Jesus did say he was “one with God”, but I do not believe he was inferring that he was all that unique. Of course, if Wayne Dyer said exactly the same thing, it would be considered blasphemy. Just as it was when Jesus said it.
The truth is, we are all one with God, that's what I've been saying, and it is always blasphemy, from the perspective of all mainstream religion. It is not my intention to hijack a thread, when I said that Jesus Christ was “a power of example”, he taught mankind just what was possible, and then religion hijacked the message, and made Jesus an intermediary between humanity and God. When Jesus said “what I can do, you can do, and greater things”, he was not setting himself apart from humanity, while raising himself above it to be something completely unachievable. He simply took the time to explain the way the universe works, in a plainspoken language that might be understandable to the people of his time. When he said he was the son of God, and we are all his brothers and sisters, I think he was implying something there:
We are all children of God.
This was a reply to: https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/comment/reply/1621/429317
Oh my God! It's 1:48, then I haven't had dinner yet, I hate getting sidetracked like that.
(Only kidding, yeah, it's really that late, and yeah, I'm quite hungry, but I actually enjoyed responding to Jeremiah Jr.'s post. Quite frankly, I almost missed it, as when I'm pressed for time, it's hard to cover this many forums.)
Something I just found in my “inbox”:
"Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever it has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved" - Carl Sagan
Tonight's meditation, I've got my headphones on, it's quiet and dark,
and I want to take the time to hammer out some spiritual principles,
you can listen along with me if you like,
but I suppose this is a journey I will take alone.