I was asked by a local SH pastor to do a camp for them. It was a great time. The subject came up about marriage, divorce and remarriage. I gave my views and I asked the pastor what his system taught. He said in the beginning, they would not marry anyone who had been divorced. Later they would only remarry the party that was not at fault ( he said the one who stayed in their SH), and now he said that they will marry, remarry, anyone.
I met a high profile pastor while overseas long ago and we became friends. He had the big meetings and he was on their national T.V. broadcasts. He called me one day and said, "Jim. I am calling for your advise. I am having an affair with my best friend wife in my church where I am the senior pastor. The board has just found out about it and I think there may be problems. What do you think I should do?"
That is not a question that he is going to enjoy an answer to. I said "have you ever heard of adultery? Here you are, the so-called leader of an assembly, you are married with children and your sins are exposed. You need to repent of these sins, resign your post that you should have never been in, ask your wife for forgiveness, and do whatever possible to heal the wounds between you and your friends". He said, Jim, I do not like your advise and you will not win many friends in the church if you have that kind of an attitude.
Well he is still in his position in a different area, still a speaker for Christian meetings and never wanted to speak to me again. This is just the beginning of the many woes of the divided systems. We have allowed the enemy to infiltrate the fellowships from the early Church and now instead of being "overcomers", we have been overcome.
This is one of those important discussions that all must have in His timing. If IRB and NWD along with SWM, ever have our picnic, we will talk for hours over these issues that have been blinded in the Church.
Do you not know, brethren—for I am speaking to men who are acquainted with the Law—that legal claims have power over a person only for as long as he is alive?
2 For [instance] a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies, she is loosed and discharged from the law concerning her husband.
3 Accordingly, she will be held an adulteress if she unites herself to another man while her husband lives. But if her husband dies, the marriage law no longer is binding on her [she is free from that law]; and if she unites herself to another man, she is not an adulteress. Romans 7
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?)
(Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?)
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Well it may be the correct time for me to concentrate more on the "local Church" than the book club. I want to encourage any lurkers to continue to study the past and gain much as to the future of the Church. I will be around for anything that is needed via P.M.'s and here also as any may want to talk. Jim
and i learned something new about Divinci's last supper
Silver66 Rage against the dying of the light
I had a good friend Bill that grew up in an old shack along the main line track in their one bedroom home. I do not remember how many kids were in that family but somewhere around twelve. Most of them slept on the floors in sleeping bags. I recall an outside toilet and only a sink in the kitchen. Everything was a hand me down in those days and many looked forward to your brother outgrowing his jeans and shoes. We were a bit better off than Bill but not that much. There were three families in our small town with at least a dozen children and all in shacks. This was the decade of the '50's.
We all learned to work from an early age. I have stated before that we all had jobs. Pick the strawberries, blackberries and peal the cascara bark to sell in the big city. One could make enough money working all summer to buy new school clothes for the coming year. (Surly you did not think the parents could buy them?)
Mom and dad had the big garden, rabbit pens, chickens running around the back yard and a chopping block ready for chicken dinner. YUM! The can house was always full and we never, ever ran out of food. We did not have any money at all but we did have plenty to eat. Bill and I ran around throughout grade school and most of high school. We both, along with many others, worked our way through school with evening and weekend jobs.
Well I had not been in contact will Bill for 50 years until last week. I called him and he lived just north of me and I did not know where he was or what happened to him. He could barely talk, sickly, packing around an oxygen tank to breathe and a bit of a mess (throw those cancer sticks away). It was a bit shocking for me.
I went a different route. I can remember thinking, "I will get out of this town and never return, I will work till I drop to escape from poverty and I will work two jobs until I have saved one thousand dollars." That was an unthinkable amount of cash. Even one hundred dollars was a dream. I also pondered "I will never have any children, if I can find a wife, until I have that $1000 in savings." Well, I was married and I did have two jobs and I stacked up that $1000 and thought "it is not enough, I need $10,000 and in time it came and then again not enough, I need $100,000 and it came. I finally came to the conclusion that I would never have enough to make me happy. I was an early stacker. Then, Jesus came along.
That big empty spot was finally filled. Now we are here, 50 years later, and have more than all our needs met. I am very sensitive to the people who are in true poverty. I can feel it when it passes by. There are ways that the Church can be effective with their funds to help those in need. One must get involved and begin to look at the needs of our neighbors.
Yes I have been robbed of a blessing. I did not know long ago how blessed we were to have nothing. I did not know how wonderful the thousands of hours were that we all spent on the creeks, fishing and swimming. I did not know how blessed Bill and I were with many buddies as we would walk seven miles to a movie theater on Saturday nights. I did not know how wonderful it was to work and save to buy a $150 beater of a car. I did not appreciate that fact that mom and dad had a full can house along with home made pickles and sauerkraut. I had forgotten about having to jump into bed with my sister to keep from freezing on cold winter nights without any heat except an old wood stove. Yes, I have been robbed.
Now I am stuck with my stack of goods. I am looking to lessen the witness of it, against me, via seeing the needs as He brings them into view. amen
Woe on Unrepentant cities, nations and churches!
All three may have started on a firm, solid foundation. In time, the cracks began to form but the skilled repairmen were run out of town. Now after many years we have a worn out structure, not looking at all like the blueprints of the designer, yet, the structure still stands, mostly without Life. Often a traveling voortrekker would peer within to give direction to Life, but the three arenas could not change their course.
"For thy name's sake, O Lord, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great."
John S. B. Monsell, 1863
1. My sins, my sins, my Saviour! They take such hold on me,
I am not able to look up, Save only, Christ, to thee;
In thee is all forgiveness, In thee abundant grace,
My shadow and my sunshine - The brightness of thy face.
2. My sins, my sins, my Saviour! Their guilt I never knew
Till with thee in the desert - I near thy passion drew;
Till with thee in the garden - I heard thy pleading prayer,
And saw the sweat-drops bloody - That told thy sorrow there.
3. Therefore my songs, my Saviour, E'en in this time of woe,
Shall tell of all thy goodness - To suff'ring man below;
Thy goodness and thy favor, Whose presence from above -
Rejoice those hearts, my Saviour, That live in thee and love. A-men.
..."They are blessed who suffer and sin not; for suffering is the badge that Christ hath put upon His followers. Take what way we can to heaven, the way is hedged up with crosses; there is no way but to break through them. Wit and wiles, shifts and laws, will not find out a way round the cross of Christ; but we must (go) through. One thing, by experience, my Lord hath taught me, that the waters betwixt this and heaven may all be ridden, if we be well-horsed; I mean, if we be in Christ; and not one shall drown by the way, but such as love their own destruction. Oh, if we could wait on for a time, and believe in the dark the salvation of God! At least we are to believe good of Christ, till He give us the slip (which is impossible); and to take His word for caution (security, surety), that He shall fill up all the blanks in His promises, and give us what we want (lack). But to the unbeliever, Christ's testament is white, blank, unwritten paper.
Worthy and dear Sir, set your face to heaven, and make you a stoop at all the low entries in the way, that ye may receive the kingdom as a child. Without this (He that knew the way said) there is no entry in. Oh, but Christ is willing to lead a poor sinner! Oh what love my poor soul hath found in Him, in the house of my pilgrimage! Suppose that love in heaven and earth were lost, I dare swear it may be found in Christ."..
"Letters of Samuel Rutherford" Letter CCXXXVII Aberdeen, 1637 (a portion)
I know the language is antiquated and, at times, a bit hard to follow, but how does a miner find his golden nugget, if not by sweat and hard work? I think I always appreciated this type of thing because it forced me to read more carefully, and more slowly; and I was often surprised at the richness I found in the words of the 'old divines'.
May the busy-ness of life; may the severity of our hardships; may the pain of our sufferings; or, may the brightness of the un-clouded day, never rob us of the great mystery that has befallen us, who have been called 'out of the darkness, and into His marvelous Light. Truly, it is like being raised from the dead..this faith that is working in us! May we never become too familiar' with it...May we never take it for granted...May we never see it as anything less than a miracle!
In Christ, I encourage you all.......NotWorthyDale
The language may be old but still retains Life. I noticed an old penny in my desk drawer this morning. It is a 1955 plain and not the valuable double stamped 1955 that many seek. I remember having a coin collection when this coin was new. Back then, I could take that penny, go the the local candy store and buy two pieces of licorice. Now, it will not even pay the tax. The coin is still here but the value is lost forever, not so with the Word of God. It does not matter if Paul said it or NWD, it still retains it's value forever.
noun: patrimony; plural noun: patrimonies
property inherited from one's father or male ancestor.
"an organization that saves the world's cultural patrimony by restoring historic buildings"
synonyms:heritage, inheritance, birthright; More
legacy, bequest, endowment
"our cultural patrimony is in jeopardy"
the estate or property belonging by ancient endowment or right to a church or other institution.
Middle English: from Old French patrimoine, from Latin patrimonium, from pater, patr- ‘father.’
Translate patrimony to
Use over time for: patrimony
I like this old word "patrimony" but it is a word that only a few like NWD would use.
Anaxagoras, a nobleman, but true philosopher, left his great PATRIMONY to seek out wisdom; and being reproved by his friends for the little care he had of his estate, answered, "It is enough that you care for it." One asked him why he had no more love for his country than to leave it: "Wrong me not," saith he, "my greatest care is my country," pointing his finger towards heaven. Returning home, and taking a view of his great possessions, "If I had not disregarded them," saith he, "I had perished." He was a great clearer and improver of the doctrine of One Eternal God, denying divinity to sun, moon and stars, saying, "God is infinite, not confined to place; the eternal wisdom and efficient cause of all things; the divine mind and understanding; who, when matter was confused, came and reduced it to order, which is the world we see." He suffered much from some magistrates for his opinion; yet dying, was admired by them his epitaph in English thus: "Here lies, who through the truest paths did pass To th' world celestial, Anaxagoras."
A man who understood his citizenship!
"Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee." John 21:17
Elizabeth Payson Prentiss, 1869
1. More love to thee, O Christ, More love to thee!
Hear thou the prayer I make - On bended knee;
This is my earnest plea, More love, O Christ, to thee,
More love to thee, More love to thee!
2. Once earthly joy I craved, Sought peace and rest;
Now thee alone I seek; Give what is best;
This all my prayer shall be, More love, O Christ to thee,
3. Let sorrow do it's work, Send grief and pain;
Sweet are thy messengers, Sweet their refrain,
When they can sing with me, More love, O Christ, to thee,
4. Then shall my latest breath - Whisper thy praise;
This be the parting cry - My heart shall raise,
This still its prayer shall be, More love, O Christ, To thee,
More love to thee, More love to thee! A-men.
".........And as for your complaint of deadness and doubtings, Christ will, I hope, take your deadness and you together. They are bodies full of holes, running boils, and broken bones which need mending, that Christ the Physician taketh up: whole vessels are not for the Mediator Christ's art. Publicans, sinners, whores, harlots, are ready market-wares (goods to sell) for Christ. The only thing that will bring sinners within a cast (fate) of Christ's drawing arm is that which ye write of, some feeling of death and sin. That bringeth forth complaints; and, therefore, out of sense complain more, and be more acquaint (familiar) with all the cramps, stitches, and soul-swoonings that trouble you. The more pain, and the more night-watching, and the more fevers, the better. The soul bleeding to death, till Christ were sent for, and cried for in all haste, to come and stem the blood, and close the hole in the wound with His own hand and balm, were a very good disease, when many are dying of a whole heart. ...."
Lettter CCIII "Letters of Samuel Rutherford" Aberdeen, 1637
May the 'Thread of Faith' never devolve into a 'mutual admiration society', but I must express how glad I am to know you, NW View, as my friend, and a dear brother in Christ.
I took much comfort, and received much joy, from "God On the Mountain". May the tears flow until they are enough to wash Christ's feet!
You know these things already. ......More love, O Christ, to thee!
Ferguson, MO: Here is your answer.
...that so much joy would come to me out of Africa!
"Father, if there be some pride in me that I cannot see, I ask you, humbly, to slay it."
And I thought they needed what we could take them. Perhaps, we need what they could bring us?!
Thank you very much for posting the video of the African Church. For me, it brings back many memories of past gatherings with those from Zululand to Kenya. We would often gather under a huge shade tree and then the singing would start. Oh what a wonderful thing to witness. Everyone is singing, praising the Lord, everyone moving and smiling. The singing may last for half an hour before we even give a word to the Church, under the tree. Oh are they ready to pray before we move to a new location. THEN, we come back to America to DEAD steeple houses on every corner. Jim
Abide, yes this is another message that the Africans could teach the nations. It is the difference between being an Overcomer and being overcome.
The wife and I viewed the South African singing this morning and it stirred up an old story for us:
We were having meetings within Zululand and at one of the sub-village areas, we found many in great need of all things. We prayed with many and sang from place to place. Then it happened. A woman came to Linda and I and said "My husband could not come to the gathering and he has asked if you could come to our home and lay hands on him and pray for him?"
Yes we were looking forward to meeting him and followed her to their home. Now their home was a small, round hut with a dirt floor. No windows or doors, just openings. They did not have any furniture except a old apple box that her husband sat upon. The kitchen was outdoors and consisted of an open pit to cook their meals upon and fueled by sticks that were gathered from the forest areas.
Then we saw him sitting on the apple box, no legs, and then we knew why he could not come to the shade tree. We spent some time in prayer with him, it was wonderful. These are the times and memories that still affect me today. Oh how these Saints have helped me with my dead, lifeless life in America.
We were ready to leave this area and his wife came running to us with a gift. They had a small pot/vessel for holding water and they were giving it to us to take home. They did not have anything in their hut and they were giving us what they had. They were so thankful for anyone to visit their home and pray with them. WE WERE JUST SLAIN! Linda said "what can we do, I cannot take this, it is all they have"? I said you must receive from the brethren as it is given.
These things will change your lives forever and will help the many to begin to see the needs of a world in poverty. Take that tithe check for tomorrow and begin to "love thy neighbor as thyself" while it is still day. Jim
"We were ready to leave this area and his wife came running to us with a gift. They had a small pot/vessel for holding water and they were giving it to us to take home. They did not have anything in their hut and they were giving us what they had. They were so thankful for anyone to visit their home and pray with them. WE WERE JUST SLAIN! Linda said "what can we do, I cannot take this, it is all they have"? I said you must receive from the brethren as it is given."
NWV, your stories are such a blessing, the joy that poor man, giving his only possession in thanksgiving, felt in his heart is priceless.
Giving is so rewarding, to the Giver, true joy.
"And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."
Mark 12 :41-44
It is difficult for us in the spoiled nations to understand the great needs, spiritual and physical, of those in darkness. However, visiting these nations and being given the blessing of speaking to the many, will change us from within. It is difficult to stand with 10,000 starving people and not be changed. It is difficult to see the starving children in the southern Philippines and not cry out loudly! It is difficult to see the rivers in Jakarta, filled with masses of people trying to just survive and we not be changed. It is difficult to enter prisons in 3rd world nations to see the lack of hope and the despair, Christless and lost forever without Him. Then I come back home, to S.H.'s preaching prosperity and the good life, as the brethren reach out from around the world for a cup of cold water in Jesus's Name and we never answer.
I keep hoping that someone, some day, here, will say, "Jim, what is so wrong with paying my fiat to the S.H.'s every month? Is it not God's money? They can do a better job with it than me, right? What should we be doing instead? What are some starting points to just begin to align with what we have been instructed to do? "
First, do not send any to me. I have no agenda. However, I repented decades ago from ever sending one cent into the divided systems. The divisions will close down quickly if the funds dry up. This is a warning to the Church.