The Armenian book entitled “The Key of Truth", mentioned above
as having been written between the seventh and ninth centuries, de-
scribes the beliefs and practices of those called Paulicians, of Thonrak,
at that time; and although there were doubtless many differences in the
numerous scattered churches, yet this authentic account given by one of
themselves, is applicable to most of them.
The author is unknown, but writes with power and eloquence as well
as with deep feeling and earnestness. He writes to give to the new born
children of the Universal and Apostolic Church of our Lord Jesus Christ
the holy milk whereby they may be nourished in the faith. Our Lord, he
says, asks first for repentance and faith and then gives baptism, so we
must follow Him and not do after the deceitful arguments of others, who
baptise the unbelieving, the reasonless, and the unrepentant.
When a child is born the elders of the church should give counsel
to the parents that they may train the child in godliness and faith. This
should be accompanied by prayer, the reading of the Scriptures, and giv-
ing the child a name. When anyone is baptised it should be at his or her
earnest request. Baptism should be in rivers, or other water in the open
air. The one to be baptised should, on his knees in the midst of the wa-
ter, confess his faith before the congregation present, with great love and
tears. The one who baptises should be of blameless character. Prayer and
the reading of Scripture should accompany the act. Again, the ordaining
of an elder requires great care lest anyone unworthy be chosen. It must
be ascertained whether he has perfect wisdom, love, which is chief of all,
prudence, gentleness, humility justice, courage, sobriety, eloquence. In
laying hands on him, which is to be done with prayer and the reading
of suitable Scriptures, he is to be asked, “Art thou then able to drink the
cup which I am about to drink, or to be baptised with the baptism with
which I am about to be baptised?" The answer required of him shows the
dangers and responsibilities that such men accepted, which none would
take on themselves unless there were an earnest love and a will to suffer
to the uttermost in the following of Christ and caring for His flock.
It seems that we have long ago lost this view of the early Church. Can the flock be "reformed"? Well when we have that picnic and the baptism in the river, we will see if we have returned to the concepts of the early ones.
Jude 1 Amplified Bible (AMP)
1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ (the Messiah), and brother of James, [writes this letter] to those who are called (chosen), dearly loved by God the Father and separated (set apart) and kept for Jesus Christ:
2 May mercy, [soul] peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3 Beloved, my whole concern was to write to you in regard to our common salvation. [But] I found it necessary and was impelled to write you and urgently appeal to and exhort [you] to contend for the faith which was once for all [a]handed down to the saints [the faith which is that sum of Christian belief which was delivered [b]verbally to the holy people of God].
4 For certain men have crept in stealthily [[c]gaining entrance secretly by a side door]. Their doom was predicted long ago, ungodly (impious, profane) persons who pervert the grace (the spiritual blessing and favor) of our God into lawlessness and wantonness and immorality, and disown and deny our sole Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
5 Now I want to remind you, though you were fully informed once for all, that though the Lord [at one time] delivered a people out of the land of Egypt, He subsequently destroyed those [of them] who did not believe [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely upon Him].
6 And angels who did not keep (care for, guard, and hold to) their own first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place—these He has reserved in custody in eternal chains (bonds) under the thick gloom of utter darkness until the judgment and doom of the great day.
7 [The wicked are sentenced to suffer] just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent towns—which likewise gave themselves over to impurity and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity—are laid out [in plain sight] as an exhibit of perpetual punishment [to warn] of everlasting fire.
8 Nevertheless in like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body, scorn and reject authority and government, and revile and libel and scoff at [heavenly] glories (the glorious ones).
9 But when [even] the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, judicially argued (disputed) about the body of Moses, he dared not [presume to] bring an abusive condemnation against him, but [simply] said, The Lord rebuke you!
10 But these men revile (scoff and sneer at) anything they do not happen to be acquainted with and do not understand; and whatever they do understand physically [that which they know by mere instinct], like irrational beasts—by these they corrupt themselves and are destroyed (perish).
11 Woe to them! For they have run riotously in the way of Cain, and have abandoned themselves for the sake of gain [it offers them, following] the error of Balaam, and have perished in rebellion [like that] of Korah!
12 These are hidden reefs (elements of danger) in your love feasts, where they boldly feast sumptuously [carousing together in your midst], without scruples providing for themselves [alone]. They are clouds without water, swept along by the winds; trees, without fruit at the late autumn gathering time—twice (doubly) dead, [lifeless and] plucked up by the roots;
13 Wild waves of the sea, flinging up the foam of their own shame and disgrace; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of eternal darkness has been reserved forever.
14 It was of these people, moreover, that Enoch in the seventh [generation] from Adam prophesied when he said, Behold, the Lord comes with His myriads of holy ones (ten thousands of His saints)
15 To execute judgment upon all and to convict all the impious (unholy ones) of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed [in such an] ungodly [way], and of all the severe (abusive, jarring) things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
16 These are inveterate murmurers (grumblers) who complain [of their lot in life], going after their own desires [controlled by their passions]; their talk is boastful and arrogant, [and they claim to] admire men’s persons and pay people flattering compliments to gain advantage.
17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions which were made by the apostles (the special messengers) of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
18 They told you beforehand, In the last days (in the end time) there will be scoffers [who seek to gratify their own unholy desires], following after their own ungodly passions.
19 It is these who are [agitators] setting up distinctions and causing divisions—merely sensual [creatures, carnal, worldly-minded people], devoid of the [Holy] Spirit and destitute of any higher spiritual life.
20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up [founded] on your most holy faith [[d]make progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], praying in the Holy Spirit;
21 Guard and keep yourselves in the love of God; expect and patiently wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)—[which will bring you] unto life eternal.
22 And refute [so as to] convict some who dispute with you, and on some have mercy who waver and doubt.
23 [Strive to] save others, snatching [them] out of [the] fire; on others take pity [but] with fear, loathing even the garment spotted by the flesh and polluted by their sensuality.
24 Now to Him Who is able to keep you without stumbling or slipping or falling, and to present [you] unblemished (blameless and faultless) before the presence of His glory in triumphant joy and exultation [with unspeakable, ecstatic delight]—
25 To the one only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory (splendor), majesty, might and dominion, and power and authority, before all time and now and forever (unto all the ages of eternity). Amen (so be it).
Well this is a big subject. The experts all have their views of the reformation and many are scholars, I'm not one of them. I have deep concerns and convictions over the past, present and future of the Church. I have my views and understand that I am in the small minority of the believers but not with the early Church and the scriptures. My intention herein is not to divide, argue or change everyone's mind but to state my long held view of the mess we have as we head into the end times tribulation for the entire world.
What is a "reformer"? Why do we need to be reformed? The early Church did not need to be reformed, they were formed. The Lord gave Paul the understanding of the working of the Church, it is written. There has been from the beginning, those who have followed the path once delivered to the Saints but most have suffered persecution at the hands of the "non-reformed" as it is today (yes today).
Jude said much in the way of a warning for the end times Church and we cannot do any less of that warning. He said "to contend for the faith which was once for all handed down to the Saints". Yes that means to go back and re-read "that which was written" and to come out of the foolishness of todays teaching/preaching. He said "certain men have crept in stealthily, gaining entrance secretly, who PERVERT! The book club is studying these historic events and the pages are filled to the brim but the practices are still here on Sunday mornings across the nations but not in His Kingdom. He said "That angels who did not keep their first place of power but abandoned their proper dwelling place"...... Well, we have also abandoned our "first place' the place that was given for the Church to dwell and have taken on the position that the enemy has given as a replacement. He said "In like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body". Well that is the state of things as we sit here on Aug. the 4th.
It may be time for us to openly, bluntly, scripturally, speak what we must do to come back from our current mess and take back our original dwelling place. Will the picnic table be able to listen to a view?
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition".
Sir Isaac Newton
* * * * *
Greater events, but also connected with the question of images, arose
from small beginnings in Arabia. In 571 Mohammed was born in Mecca,
and at his death in 632 the religion of Islam, of which he was the founder
and prophet, had spread over the greater part of Arabia. Islam, or “sub-
mission to the will of God", had as its creed: “There is no God but God
and Mohammed is His Prophet". It utterly repudiated images or pictures
of any kind. Its book, the Koran, contains many confused references to
persons and events spoken of in the Bible. Abraham as the Friend of
God, Moses the Law of God, Jesus the Spirit of God, are all venerated,
but are excelled by Mohammed the Prophet of God.
This religion was mercilessly spread by the sword, and such was
the resistless energy of the new enthusiasm that in less than a hundred
years from the death of Mohammed, the dominion and religion of his
followers stretched from India to Spain. The choice of conversion to
Mohammedanism or death constantly reinforced the armies of Islam,
but untold numbers died rather than deny Christ. In North Africa es-
pecially, where the churches were so numerous and had such traditions
and records of the faith unto death of those who had suffered there dur-
ing the persecution by the Pagan Roman Empire, a great proportion of
the population was blotted out. Mohammedanism was a judgement on
idolatry, whether Pagan or Christian.
The last line should be an eye opener but is not. "Mohammedanism was a judgment on idolatry, whether Pagan or Christian." The RCC have had their wars with Islam, and to this day, Muslims are blowing up the idols of many cult/pagan religions. Is there any surprise that the modern S.H.'s that have set up idols, from the leaders to the statues around the building, to those collected by the leaders and brought home from their trips overseas , have destroyed their stand against Satan? Consider this "judgment" as you stand before all of them.
Story; I was invited as a guest speaker to a home of a so-called Christian leader in Manila, many years ago. I walked into this home and it was filled with guests who wanted to hear. The entire home was filled with all the demonic idols of the entire region. I thought "I should keep my big mouth shut, say a 15 minute something, and get out of Dodge." That sounded really good. But then, that small, quiet inner voice, "are you a coward"? So I started off the meeting by saying something like: HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF IDOLATRY? Well, you know the rest of the story and I was not invited back.
Almost all tell me it is "art" and I tell them , "no it is demonic idols". He that hath ears, let him hear. amen
Dear NW View,
I was blessed with another sleepless night last night. It was my privilege to re-examine this thread. My method was this: Read pg.1, then skip to the first to the 'last page' available. Read pg.5, then skip to the next 'last page' available. Read pg.9, then skip ahead again. I think I was trying to flesh out the 'history' of the relationships that have blossomed (for me) upon this thread. Sometimes, you see, I fear I have truly slipped into madness, for I walk the house believing I have actually come to love men I have never met.
I first stumbled onto a post of yours (using my method) on pg.20. Foggyroad showed up a little later, as did I Run Bartertown who was, I might add, viciously attacked upon his first appearance here. My heart was broken for IRB, more than a little. Further on, he was treated much kinder, and I rejoiced that that incident was not a stumbling block to him, and that it didn't prevent him from reaching heaven's Gate. And I rejoiced to think that, when Christ 'hath thy name graven on his Hand' even the gates of hell cannot thwart a man's coming to Him. In truth, the man himself cannot prevent it. A-men!
From pg.20 on, I read much, and heard much, that encouraged and instructed my soul. Today, I must confess, that one of two things has happened: Either the madness has fed upon itself and strengthened..or..My love for those who have helped me here has deepened. I prefer to believe the latter.
When love is in it's growing, respect and admiration flourish alongside, and I think it no sin when these things desire, perhaps even demand, expression. Therefore, NW View, I say these things to thee openly:
In Christ, I bless the day I met you. When I first came to 'Thread of Faith', I thought you might be an obnoxious man, for no one ever seemed to join you here, and it seemed like yours might be a discordant voice, or one that was repugnant to them who desired to travel the same Thread. I have, since then, been brought low by your example of faithfulness, industriousness, and love for Christ's church.
Much of what you have faithfully expounded here, on these pages, has been allowed to settle onto my ears and, then, into my heart. And, as I have thought about your preaching on 'our citizenship being in heaven', many of my entanglements with this world have fallen away, and seem to be dying. I no longer care about the price of silver and gold; I am no longer obsessed with presidents and politics; conspiracy theories no longer weigh me down, or cause me fear, or interest me much. Even sin, it appears, has received a death-blow,and sits silently at arm's-length. And, although I do still appear pretty tawdry to the eyes of men, I sense a great improvement in my soul. I sense it is Christ himself who speaketh to me, through you.
What you bring to us here is meat, and not milk, and it is difficult for a 'soft' stomach to keep solid food down. Be that as it may, we must have the solid food, for the babe does not have arms long enough, or strong enough, to lay hold of his inheritance, let alone the wisdom to wrestle the thing to the ground, and to make it his own. You have helped me greatly in this regard. Your voice, to me, is as that of one crying in the wilderness, and I will always call you, "Friend".
As Rutherford would say, 'I bid you to help me to praise.'
"Lord Jesus, our Everlasting Father...May I, may we, never lose again, the hard-fought ground we have gained. May every step bring us nearer to Thee. We are love-sick to see Thy face...We long to be with Thee where Thou art. We thank Thee for the gift of faith, and for our companions who have met us on the Way. Thou art the Potter; we are the clay. We bless your Holy Name." A-men.
I put my life in my Dada's hands, everyday, sometimes, I don't pray, most of the times I curse. I walk the line.
All of you brothers and sisters, I don't have time to read all the chapters, why would I when I'm trying to feed my family?
You know the word became flesh. The word could be fish or bird or dinosaur. Or your lover.
And then your word became your daughter or son.
And she became a farmer.
Part of my musical education was and is this musician...
I'm not Christian, Jew, Moslem, etc,
I am a Turd.
Well that post makes me teary eyed and speechless. I often feel like a man who was able to jump off of a sinking ship out in the Pacific, swim for a week, and crawl out on a fruitful island. The place is wonderful, food and water, shelter but not even a footprint in the sand for company. One day, I found an old bottle and wrote a message to place within before throwing it into the sea. "Hello, my name is Jim. I was saved from the burning ship before it sank. I have found a land of promise filled with milk and honey. I have placed a tall flag on the highest peak in the hope you will see it and also swim here to be saved and taken care of forever. I do not need to be rescued, do not send a ship, I am here to stay."
Then one day, I saw two men floating on an old log, coming to shore. I said "Hello, my friends, did you find my bottle"? They said that they were travelers named IRB and NWD and have come to this shore to live forever.
Thank You Lord Jesus, some have joined me in this Land of the Kingdom.
I am amazed by your posts. Not only are you extremely talented with words and expressing your thoughts but I appreciate the depth of your understanding.
I have been silent and have not commented on the posts and it seems you have explained my reason for this silence. I have been reading NW View and his posts have given me much to think about. When you said, "What you bring to us here is meat, and not milk, and it is difficult for a 'soft' stomach to keep solid food down." You expressed my thoughts exactly. There is so much to think about. For example, "the subject of our citizenship being in heaven"-
"And, as I have thought about your preaching on 'our citizenship being in heaven', many of my entanglements with this world have fallen away, and seem to be dying. I no longer care about the price of silver and gold; I am no longer obsessed with presidents and politics; conspiracy theories no longer weigh me down, or cause me fear, or interest me much. Even sin, it appears, has received a death-blow,and sits silently at arm's-length."
I think that there is so much more that could be said about this and what it means to have our citizenship in heaven.
NW View I would be very interested in what you have to say exactly about our citizenship.
Thanks for the great posts. It is almost time to leave for work but here is a starting place:
This instruction from Paul is mostly overlooked by the Church. The entire world is caught up in 1st. Adam and that is all that they can "see". However, for those who have received Christ within, our citizenship has been transferred, moved, changed, altered.
It is like my previous post on swimming to a new Kingdom island. We had a campfire along the beach and were sitting at the picnic table. We were talking one day and SWM said "well, I do not even think about the president nor wonder what congress is voting for. I have finally seen that here, our citizenship has changed. We have been placed here by the Lord Himself, allowed to and made to sit with Him. The view from here is quire different from my past. I do not worry about the problems of the nations of the world."
NWD said, "I also have been set free. Here on our island, there are no laws, no artificial governments, no majority rule, zero voting, and there is not one person carrying a sign to protest anything. I am not concerned who will win an election or what party will rule. If someone would ask me who will win the elections in Peru this year, I would say that I do not know and I am not a citizen of Peru nor anywhere else, just here in God's Kingdom".
Foggyroad jumped into the discussion. "It gives me a load of grief to hear over the airwaves from believers who have not found this island, as to their involvement in the affairs of the world. We have been told to stay out of these things and to stay in our positions that the Lord has provided for us, this island where Life is abundant.'
NWD said "when I finally received the revelation from the Lord via His Spirit, my life changed forever. I was finally set free and he who the Son sets free is free indeed. There is not one ounce of freedom for any person who is still living in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but the Tree of Life is in our midst. My view of the problems facing mankind has moved from TBN,CBS,NBC and even the net to facing the foot of the Cross every day and being thankful for this Great salvation that I have received."
IRB said "I will no longer allow anyone who rows a boat past our shores to trick me into throwing stones nor will they get me to travel with them back into their lands. Could someone pass the ribs and potato salad?" amen
What a beautiful story NWD, the Lord's Holy Spirit has touched your heart, Praise the Most High.
The Din of Angels Joyous Song fills the heavenly Sanctuary, what Love is our Glorious Father, he sits and smiles at the Son of God, as Jesus strides toward Him with a little lamb, once lost but now found.
Blessings to you Brother Dale, now share your precious gift, and grow in the Love of Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
My heart weeps with extreme Joy, at your loving words.
Praise the Lord, as the Angels sing.
Thank You, and Bless You Brother Dale.
Your Friend Foggy.
So, NW VIEW forgive me I have a few questions. While putting this new citizenship into everyday living I come against questions from friends and even family members. Here are a few:
1. As Christians aren't we supposed to do good and elect Godly people into office.
2. We have to live in this world, isn't it our job to make it a better place?
3. If you stay out of politics aren't you helping evil to stay in power?
More detail please of being "In the World but not of the world"?
Well SWM, this is one of the topics that will make one feel he has been placed on a board over a watery swimming pool, waiting for the many stones to be thrown to dunk me. However, I have been wet before:
2 Timothy 2 Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 So you, my son, be strong (strengthened inwardly) in the grace (spiritual blessing) that is [to be found only] in Christ Jesus.
2 And the [instructions] which you have heard from me along with many witnesses, transmit and entrust [as a deposit] to reliable and faithful men who will be competent and qualified to teach others also.
3 Take [with me] your share of the hardships and suffering [which you are called to endure] as a good (first-class) soldier of Christ Jesus.
4 No soldier when in service gets entangled in the enterprises of [civilian] life; his aim is to satisfy and please the one who enlisted him.
5 And if anyone enters competitive games, he is not crowned unless he competes lawfully (fairly, according to the rules laid down).
6 [It is] the hard-working farmer [who labors to produce] who must be the first partaker of the fruits.
7 Think over these things I am saying [understand them and grasp their application], for the Lord will grant you full insight and understanding in everything.
8 Constantly keep in mind Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [as] risen from the dead, [as the prophesied King] descended from David, according to the good news (the Gospel) that I preach.
9 For that [Gospel] I am suffering affliction and even wearing chains like a criminal. But the Word of God is not chained or imprisoned!
10 Therefore I [am ready to] persevere and stand my ground with patience and endure everything for the sake of the elect [God’s chosen], so that they too may obtain [the] salvation which is in Christ Jesus, with [the reward of] eternal glory.
11 The saying is sure and worthy of confidence: If we have died with Him, we shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny and disown and reject Him, He will also deny and disown and reject us.
13 If we are faithless [do not believe and are untrue to Him], He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.
14 Remind [the people] of these facts and [solemnly] charge them in the presence of the Lord to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good but upsets and undermines the faith of the hearers.
15 Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.
16 But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.
So SWM, you have three questions and most will not appreciate my answers but the Lord is O.K.
(1). As Christians aren't we suppose to do good and elect Godly people into office? >>>> Well, how has that worked out for us? If I were looking from another planet and seeing the results of billions of prayers and billions of dollars being spent, I would say the Christians have failed at the ballot boxes. The winners are from the banksters and Hollywood. What happened to their prayers, did they just drop on the floor?
Story; I remember going to an auction several years ago and seeing an older man that I had ministered with in Europe in the late '70's. He was excited to see me and said "Brother Jim, I have found the answer". I thought he must have rededicated his life to Christ. Nope! He said he was on a committee to elect a new Washington State governor and she was a Christian. He told me they could turn this state around and she was going to win. OH SUCH FOOLISHNESS!
Do we really believe that we can force the population to surrender to the Christian view that we force on them through the voting booth? The problem is that we have failed to be that witness that the Lord has called us to be in a world under judgment. The world sees a divided S.H. system, thousands of them, sin in the camp, every S.H. bible college teaching something different on every scripture and the t.v. preachers with the ratted hair preaching a false gospel of prosperity while they fly their jets to their private runways.
There will be people who read these posts who say that "speaking in tongues is of the devil" and others who will say, that it is "the only sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit". This is the witness of the confused systems to the lost world.
Do we vote and are we registered to vote? Many S.H.'s say it is our civic duty. They even tell you who to vote for, the lesser of two evils some say. A monkey can cast a ballot but it takes a cross center believer to be a witness to the lost.
We see in the O.T. that pharaoh was raised up by our Lord for the purpose of the Lord. It was not because he was a good pharaoh but because the Lord wanted to deliver the children out of the land of sin/Egypt. Do we understand that the Lord brought armies against Israel in the past because of the sin in the camp and the cost was 70 years in slavery? Do we understand that the current White House has been given to the nation as a punishment for the great sins of the land? Do we understand that the current president represents a people of a representative government? HE IS PERFECT FOR THE JOB AHEAD! Will the prayers of the S.H.'s raise up a Billy Graham type for our next president? NO! We will be given what the nation wants and deserves. I am O.K. with the selection because from where I view things on the island, nothing will change for America until "If My people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray...................". When will that happen with a divided church? When will the saved ones repent of joining the divided systems? When will the called out ones begin to understand that they are a "Kingdom of Priests unto God" and never have been a layman?
Well, this have been a long post to answer the 1st question and I will answer the next two later.
I know your question was directed to NW VIEW but I would also like to chime in, if you don’t mind.
I agree with much of what NW said, wise council as always.
IMO, Jesus Christ did not come to change what we do, he came to change what we are, because what we are, effects what we do, individually and collectively as a nation and/or in any society.
IMO, we are called to be salt and light to the world, yes, no question about it, do good and make difference where you can, but what the modern church has done is embrace and just become another ‘political group’ with a ‘political agenda’. An agenda of cultural morality; and thereby it tries to create an ‘environment’ where somehow this external supposed ‘righteousness’ will somehow be pushed into people from the outside.
Our ministry and duty as Christians is one of reconciliation…….
A Reconciliation at the heart level…….
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” II Cor 5:17-21.
When we as believers lose focus of this primary objective we drift all over the place, embracing the world and even its ‘tactics’, at times, rather than preaching the Gospel of God which alone has the power to transform lives. Rom1:16
The post moderns are big into this as well as many of the Churches. If the majority of American’s got delivered, saved and brought into the Kingdom, this country would do a 180 degree turn in a matter of weeks. Sadly scripture indicates that will not happen collectively.
In the mean time, we help one person at a time escape this world and its corrupt systems that are going down hard very soon.
In the mean time, do as you are led, but don’t lose focus that we are calling people out of this world and it’s systems, into the Kingdom of God which is a Heavenly Kingdom.
“We who preach the Gospel must not think ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not one of compromise but an ultimatum.”
A.W. Tozer, - From man; the dwelling place of God.
@. We have to live in this world, isn't it our job to make it a better place?
Well that sounds like a great calling, has it worked? If the True Church had not been here from the beginning, we would have been destroyed long ago. What would the world have been without the feeding of the hungry and clothing of the naked? What would the outcome have been without the Azusa Street revival for America or the Welch revival with Evan Roberts? What if George Fox has just joined the local S..H. in his town in England and just submitted to the local pastor? What if Watchman Nee had never preached until he died in prison? How many could we write about and quote, the pages would be filled and I would grow older and never finish this post.
If we were to make this a better world for our children then why are we to receive a "new world" as the old one will pass away?
The true Church has learned to give "a cup of water water in Jesus's name" and have an unshakable reward. The true Church has seen the needs of the many as the Lord brings them into their lives. The true Church has taken their tithes and offerings and given them "directly" without a tax deduction, without any 501 3c submission and have the inner heart ache of the poor.
It is written "Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven." Matthew 5:16. What kind of a light do we have.. Jesus said the He was the Light of the world and He said that we are the Light of the world. The only way we can be that Light is "IF" we have Him within. Unfortunately many just say I gave at the office or I write a check every Sunday, we are building a new five million dollar S.H.
When I leave my home, I drive past three S.H.'s in a row and they are a witness to the unsaved of a divided movement. If the Spirit of God does not bring about a full national revival and soon, then we are FINISHED. Judgment has overtaken us and the nations of the world will suffer greatly because we have departed from the Faith that was once delivered to us.
What must we do even today?
I was working at the duplex we were building today. My son said we needed a few boards so I jumped into my pickup and headed over to the lumber yard. I stepped out of my truck to walk into the building but a truck with a rack stopped in front of me and the older man said to me. Hi, I have a question about this lumber yard. I thought I knew the man as I knew someone like him that I had not seen for years. I said what are you doing here. He said, I do not know you, do you think you recognize me? I said well, I first thought that you were L.C. but now I see that you are not. He said, is L.C. a good man or a bad man? (Interesting question from a stranger). I said he is a good person. He quickly said well I am an XXXXXXX. (could not say that or type it but was very descriptive of himself in a negative way). I thought, this is a set up from the Lord.
I placed my hand on his arm and said "Only the Lord Jesus can change your life". He was shocked, looked at me and said "I Know". He was speechless and I was blessed. Who knows why he was there for the first time? Well SWM, this is how the Church can make it a better place, let your Light shine.
I was at a meeting long ago as a speaker. I taught on Christian giving and we all know that is taught often in the systems. I asked to take an offering, in cash only, and for the entire amount to be placed in a basket in front of the people. You know what the people were thinking>>>>>>>> This Jim is going to pocket all the cash, never report it to the IRS and line his pockets, that crook! Well, then I asked all of the adults to come forward and take a small portion of the cash out of the basket until every last cent was gone. They did and was in shock. I then explained that the funds had been given unto the Lord and it is His money and they are responsible to use it wisely. I told them to pray as to where it should go and to report back in tomorrows meeting. The next day's testimonies were powerful and their lives were changed as they became those Lights of the Lord. That is how we will make it a better place. Jim
#3. If you stay out of politics aren't you helping evil to stay in power? Well, again, how has being involved at the voting booth worked out?
I watch the lathering up of the Christian community every time the votes are counted. It is an awful site to watch. This brings up a continual heart ache for me. Somehow, someway, the Christians believe they can violate 1 Cor. 5:12 just because it is voting time in America. I hear the continual slander/gossip of this awful man/woman who is running for office. A continual judging of these who are outside the Church. "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the Church?" Oh what a mess we have. We have failed to approach sin in the Church as detailed in the N.T.. We have the breaking of bread with those who are lost in a sea of sin, we never remove them from fellowship for any sinful deeds (we do not want to lose those fiat tithes, and do not want a smaller membership than the S.H. on the corner) and we have turned on the unsaved world, into public judgment as to their evils. Somehow, it is truly amazing, we think we can say anything about anyone outside the Church and not be liable. How can this be? We have failed in our callings within the Church (Church discipline) and have judged those outside the Church instead, amazing for sure. (Time to ponder and repent).
Really SWM, somehow we think the method that Our Lord has given to the Church is the voting booth. We will just force the unbelievers into submission and present our Christians views for the world. Is that the Way, is that the Method, or have we been deceived? The political arena will NEVER replace the Light that has been given to the Church as it must shine out to those who walk in complete darkness! "Got a Light. yes" . amen
P.S. : I think I heard Foggy and NWD talking as they walked around the Island of Promise far away from the wonderful picnic table. NWD said " Foggy, I have walked this great lovely island and there are several things that just are not here. There was not a single place to cast votes, no jails or prisons, no theaters from Hollywood, there was not one S.H. but many places where others could meet like homes or just under a shade tree. I stopped by a Christian book store and it had very few things on the shelves. The bibles, and many books on those who gave all for their walk with Christ, along the narrow road that leads to life. I was surprised that all those self help books by the mega preachers were not allowed here but I now understand. Lets travel back to the table and seek even more of Him."
I would like to take a crack at your question about a Christian man voting. i would ask the forum if i am in error in my thinking to correct me please
God gave Moses Ten Commandments for man to follow. In particular the second applies to you voting in elections
Exodus 20 Amplified Bible (AMP)
4 You shall not make yourself any graven image [to worship it] or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
God also says in James 2:7-10 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 but if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
To vote you have to declare that you are a citizen of your country, to be a citizen you MUST be a person. What is a person? First let us look at the word person. It can be broken down to two parts. Per is a Latin preposition, denoting through, near, as, close. Son is the male issue of a parent, a native or inhabitant of a country; as the sons of Canada or the sons of United States.
So to be a Person you are acting as a son of Canada/United States. Read James 2 again and see what God has to say about persons
Now to be a Son you must have a Father and conversely to be a Father you must have a Son.
SWM is our Father not God? Are we not made in his likeness? How can a man have two Fathers? If he is my Father, then i am his son and if i am his son then he must be my Father. To vote i must be a son of Canada…how can i have two Fathers.
Perhaps when i vote i am following a graven image?
If you are just a simple man, you CAN NOT vote in your election and be true to God.
Perhaps another day we can have a discussion on how we are deceived into believing we are who we are not..:-)
I would also like to thank Marcus who has helped me greatly in understanding this
Silver66 Rage against the dying of the light
I would jump in this with you and hope others will also join in. My line of thinking is very simple. We who have Christ within, have received a new citizenship, our old one is gone forever. We have also changed our original parents (mom and dad) and have received our Father God forever (born again, there is a reason for this term). Now my first Adam parents have become my brother and sister in Christ (if they have Him within) . It is written "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and My God and your God". John 20:17.
The major problem in this area is the lack of any revelation by the Church that their citizenship has changed. We do not even vote in the Kingdom, He is the Head of the Body and He is Lord over all and we sit in that position. Christians do not operate in a arena of democracy but receive Life and direction via the Head Who is Lord over all.
Thanks Silver 66