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Silver Eagles and who owns them?

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#1 Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 10:29am
stalking wolf
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Silver Eagles and who owns them?

I read in the wall street journal yesterday the 11th that (10) 1933 double eagle gold coins were discovered in a locked bank box which then were confiscated from the heirs by the government, on grounds that they should never have been released. My question is, are siver eagles government property like other coins? Am I aloud to melt them down into silver if I so chose? Thanks Turd:)

Edited by: stalking wolf on Nov 8, 2014 - 5:09am
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 10:38am
Vypuero
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special situation

won't have any effect on silver eagles, or gold eagles either. That was a unique situation - disagree with government's stand but those coins were not ever officially released to the public and so that is where they get their position, that the coins therefore must be stolen property.

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 11:36am (Reply to #2)
Poor Boy
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It really doesn't matter what

It really doesn't matter what you do. Aside from 'coded' law, there are 'rules' that agencies can make that have the effect of 'law'. Anytime you cross the line, no matter how trivial it may seem, you are in effect potentially violating the 'law'.

As a result, you can be prosecuted. It just depends on who you piss off and if someone wants to make an example to curb your activity. It's not so much what you do, it's what you get caught doing even if you did nothing wrong. 

It's probably better to stay low and off of some bureaucrat's radar. The smaller a target is the less it is seen and the likelihood of being hurt is significantly reduced.

I am not a lawyer but a graduate from the school of hard knocks and bad luck.

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 12:08pm
SuperManny
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Aren't eagles numismatic?

Yes, I own silver eagles and that confiscation story disturbed me. The version I read said that one reason the coins were confiscated was because they should've been turned in when the government declared gold illegal to own.

I know I read somewhere that eagles were classified as numismatic coins, therefore they would be safe in the event the government raided private holdings again.

Does anybody know for sure? I don't really think they're gonna confiscate PM's again, but I sure would sleep better if I knew for sure that my eagles were safe if that happened. TIA! :)

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 12:31pm (Reply to #4)
SilverFocker
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SuperManny wrote: Yes, I own

SuperManny wrote:

Yes, I own silver eagles and that confiscation story disturbed me. The version I read said that one reason the coins were confiscated was because they should've been turned in when the government declared gold illegal to own.

I know I read somewhere that eagles were classified as numismatic coins, therefore they would be safe in the event the government raided private holdings again.

Does anybody know for sure? I don't really think they're gonna confiscate PM's again, but I sure would sleep better if I knew for sure that my eagles were safe if that happened. TIA! :)

Are you referring to those Eagles that fell out of your boat?

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 12:33pm
Rico
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I'm sure the fact that each

I'm sure the fact that each one of those coins was worth several million dollars was a factor in this dispute...

Your ASEs are safe.

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 12:50pm
jackmeoff
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@SuperManny

look up gold act of 1985. It makes age and ase numismatic.

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 12:52pm (Reply to #5)
SuperManny
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Quote:Are you referring to

Quote:
Are you referring to those Eagles that fell out of your boat?

I don't know what that means... the questions was; Are eagles classified as numismatic? Because when TPTB confiscated PMs they didn't take numismatics.

I suspect there's a joke in there somewhere... maybe I just haven't had enough coffee yet... :)

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 1:54pm (Reply to #8)
CYM
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He's saying that when they

He's saying that when they come for your ASE's you remember them falling overboard only to be lost at sea forever!

I think the issue with the double eagles was that they were never released to the public and therefore had to have been acquired by nefarious means.

Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 5:07pm
Gunrunner
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What are silver eagles? 

What are silver eagles? Never heard of them. You must be at the wrong house.

Bang Bang
Tue, Jul 12, 2011 - 6:15pm
stalking wolf
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Thank everyone;)

That article really got my blood boil'en. Any way, since I don't own a boat I guess I'll have to use the carmengia excuse.

"A building's form should follow it's function", Howard Roarke.
Thu, Jul 14, 2011 - 5:29pm
No1Hunter
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1933 Saints

The issue here is the 1933 Saints were not officially issued and therefore ARE government property. They were all suppose to be melted. However, there was a "Good Buddy" deal made and some were slipped out the back door, illegally (per the government). That is what the case is all about in a nutshell.

As for melting silver eagles, why? You can sell them right now for a premium and buy bullion if you want bullion. If you melt them, you have a silver lump with no value unless you pay to have it assayed and stamped. Even then, you still buy a silver color lump with a Joe Bob stamp on it?

I have more wheel weight bars that look really close to a silver lump. You want to buy some? I will sell them for $30 oz, delivered.

On a side not. I know they made it illegal to melt solid copper pennies.

Fri, Jul 15, 2011 - 3:31pm
beinki
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Screw em

I bought new 2011 Silver Eagles just today!

Sat, Jul 16, 2011 - 7:11pm
Know More
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25,000 Silver Eagles, $1,199,500.00

Future would-be multi-millionaire, get 'em while you can:

25,000 (ounces) Silver Eagles, mint sealed monster boxes for $1,199,500.00 on eBay

 https://cgi.ebay.com/Pallets-Monster-Boxes-25000oz-Silver-Eagles-Mint-Se...

Thu, Jul 21, 2011 - 3:27pm
Poor Boy
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Seems that the question has

Seems that the question has been answered.

The Government owns them according to the court. After a seven day trial, the jury decided that the government owns the coins. The government proved that the coins did not come into the possession of Israel Swift legitimately. 

I happen to agree, but I also believe that the heirs, erred in going to the government to verify that the coins were authentic. The decision wasn't a surprise to me. Seems that the heirs were screwed again. Who made out on this deal? Probably some lawyer. If you win, they win. If you lose, they probably still win because you probably had to give them money to start.

There's sure no monopoly on being stupid and making bad choices. I know. 

Experience, can be just like a stupid tax.

Period!

Thu, Jul 21, 2011 - 4:19pm (Reply to #15)
No1Hunter
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Poor Boy wrote: Seems that

Poor Boy wrote:

Seems that the question has been answered.

The Government owns them according to the court. After a seven day trial, the jury decided that the government owns the coins. The government proved that the coins did not come into the possession of Israel Swift legitimately. 

I happen to agree, but I also believe that the heirs, erred in going to the government to verify that the coins were authentic. The decision wasn't a surprise to me. Seems that the heirs were screwed again. Who made out on this deal? Probably some lawyer. If you win, they win. If you lose, they probably still win because you probably had to give them money to start.

There's sure no monopoly on being stupid and making bad choices. I know. 

Experience, can be just like a stupid tax.

Period!

If you are talking about the Saints, yes, the Gov. has always owned them. They were never legally released for circulation. There may have been a "Good Old Boy" deal done behind closed doors between friends but that does not make it legal. The Mint employee was not suppose to or authorized to issue those coins and in doing so, made an illegal act.

It would be interesting to know if the Mint employee was paid to make the swap.

Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 12:55am
jlee2027
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Israel Friedman

Israel Friedman - the mentor of Ted Butler - claims that Silver Eagles are the best silver investment. They will be valued at far above the price of one ounce of silver. Worth a read.

https://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1196788997.php

Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 9:23am (Reply to #10)
Violent Rhetoric
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Gunrunner wrote: What are

Gunrunner wrote:

What are silver eagles? Never heard of them. You must be at the wrong house.

Did you say AR-15? Is that a vitamin supplement?

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as “bad luck.” ~ Robert Heinlein
Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - 3:14pm
No1Hunter
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Gun and Gold/Silver

Personally, I believe they will come after the guns way before they come after you gold or silver. For the most part, they know who has what and they have the right to enter your home without a warrant to retrieve them. 

Sure, you may have a few that are not registered, you bought all the ammo with cash, don't belong to a gun club, don't subscribe to any periodicals about guns, don't hunt, etc but, unfortunately, the majority of the guns are traceable.

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