Pay off Debts now Yes or No?

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Wed, Jul 6, 2011 - 8:18pm
Dr Durden
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I'd love to see the before

I'd love to see the before and after credit scores from the dudes here who have actually defaulted on their loan obligations. I bet they shot straight UP!

Yea, put as much FRN's as you can into non-printable metal to survive the coming rout, but trashing your future credit-worthyness on the assumption everything will go poof and magically disappear like a fart in the wind is insane. If you're honestly living your life as though this is the reality, you don't need more coins you need a full frontal lobotomy.

Got GIABO? "It's called the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." ~George Carlin
Thu, Jul 7, 2011 - 7:42am Tripel_Play
Pablo
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My share of the National Debt, you say?

Show me the note :)

Thu, Jul 7, 2011 - 2:35pm Pablo
silversalmon
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This why I decided to pay the student loans off as quickly as po

1. https://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/student-loans-gateway-debt-slavery/44072

2. You're not guaranteed employment in a peak oil financial mess world. you could lose it all tomorrow. I don't want that kind of liability ( student loan) over my head, if I lose my ability to earn income ( job loss, health problem).

3. I'll have freedom, freedom from debt, freedom from slavery, freedom from servitude, and freedom from uncle sam, and I can start saving for my emigration goal.

4. Win, lose or draw, I signed the contract- scam or not - with the intention to pay, so I will pay the bastards as promised.

5. If this job comes through, I can get her done in 18 months, that ain't too bad.

6. I have some PMs already, not as much as some, and much more than some. I'm a long term buyer at all prices right up until the top. If 1/4 gold eagles are going for 2,500, I'll be buying.

7. Even in a big financial mess, bankers will be greedy, govts will support them, and they will have there way for a while yet. I don't like the odds of a peon like me, against a juggernaut like them. these guys have been at it for a while, and even if the BIG boys fail, there will be buzzards waiting to take their place. They will collect their debt, always have, for as long as history has been recorded, or make you pay a price so BIG, you'd wish you were dead.

8. When people continue to lose jobs, college grads move in with their parents, and shit just tanks, there will be some WINNERS, and they will get credit or favortism on the cheap assets. I want to be able to take advantage of that, with a 820 credit score, even if I don't use credit. I want people to be throwing money at me, and offering the world to me. There will be some BIG LOSERS too, in soup lines, I don't want that for me or my family.

9. This is warfare, and I'm warrior, I will win this battle and the war, the debtor is always slave to the creditor. Slaves always never revolt, and when they do, they're often shut down - gutted and de-nutted. I'm voting the trend will continue.

10. It's the sensible thing to do, given student loans can't be discharged. The govt will get there's, and I will get mine, one kruggerrand at a time.

Willing to hear rebuttals. All the best, in what ever you decide.

Thu, Jul 7, 2011 - 6:02pm
HappyNow
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Good to see

silversalmon you know your own mind and have solid reasons for the choices you are making. Win, lose or draw you're your own guy and will stand on your own.

I'm particularly fond of #4, 8, & 9. Those kinds of people are the ones I want around me if TSHTF. And when it doesn't too.

Swing trade indexed ETFs. Long physical gold, silver, and 1 miner.
Thu, Jul 7, 2011 - 6:49pm silversalmon
Mr. Picklepants
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silversalmon wrote: 1.

silversalmon wrote:

1. https://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/student-loans-gateway-debt-slavery/44072

2. You're not guaranteed employment in a peak oil financial mess world. you could lose it all tomorrow. I don't want that kind of liability ( student loan) over my head, if I lose my ability to earn income ( job loss, health problem).

3. I'll have freedom, freedom from debt, freedom from slavery, freedom from servitude, and freedom from uncle sam, and I can start saving for my emigration goal.

4. Win, lose or draw, I signed the contract- scam or not - with the intention to pay, so I will pay the bastards as promised.

5. If this job comes through, I can get her done in 18 months, that ain't too bad.

6. I have some PMs already, not as much as some, and much more than some. I'm a long term buyer at all prices right up until the top. If 1/4 gold eagles are going for 2,500, I'll be buying.

7. Even in a big financial mess, bankers will be greedy, govts will support them, and they will have there way for a while yet. I don't like the odds of a peon like me, against a juggernaut like them. these guys have been at it for a while, and even if the BIG boys fail, there will be buzzards waiting to take their place. They will collect their debt, always have, for as long as history has been recorded, or make you pay a price so BIG, you'd wish you were dead.

8. When people continue to lose jobs, college grads move in with their parents, and shit just tanks, there will be some WINNERS, and they will get credit or favortism on the cheap assets. I want to be able to take advantage of that, with a 820 credit score, even if I don't use credit. I want people to be throwing money at me, and offering the world to me. There will be some BIG LOSERS too, in soup lines, I don't want that for me or my family.

9. This is warfare, and I'm warrior, I will win this battle and the war, the debtor is always slave to the creditor. Slaves always never revolt, and when they do, they're often shut down - gutted and de-nutted. I'm voting the trend will continue.

10. It's the sensible thing to do, given student loans can't be discharged. The govt will get there's, and I will get mine, one kruggerrand at a time.

Willing to hear rebuttals. All the best, in what ever you decide.

This sounds very reasonable given your situation. Default is for those that "woke up" to the reality of corrupt government and banks too late. For instance, if it would take 30 years for you to get out of debt. Some people are in that situation. If a currency crisis is coming your credit score is the last thing you should be thinking about. And we are sitting on a powder keg IMO.

I plan on going off the grid as much as possible regardless of a currency crisis.

Thu, Jul 7, 2011 - 9:01pm
lilbromarky1
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My only debt is a mortgage

My only debt is a mortgage and I do not pay one extra penny on the mortgage. I want those banks to choke. I will pay the house off later, if and when I feel like giving the bank any money.

Like my ideas? Check our blog at: http://backtobasicseconomics.blogspot.com/
Thu, Jul 7, 2011 - 9:11pm pourty
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pourty wrote: Why on earth

pourty wrote:

Why on earth you would hold onto debts is beyond me.Sure, PM's are generally going up, and we all believe someday the currency collapse will happen. But you don't know when.

What if they manage to hold it off for a decade or more? What if they manage to suppress metals prices? The only sure thing is to get yourself out of debt.

I know everyone will clobber me for saying it, but I see no good reason to keep debts when you simply cannot predict the future. Keeping large debts in hope of a currency collapse is a fool's game. Beyond that, there is a peace of mind that comes with knowing you don't owe anyone anything... and it's priceless.

If you default on property taxes you'll have it taken away like happy gilmore's grandma.

Like my ideas? Check our blog at: http://backtobasicseconomics.blogspot.com/
Fri, Jul 8, 2011 - 2:24pm
Magpie
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RE as a liability

From:

https://dont-tread-on.me/30-reasons-to-get-out-of-real-estate-and-into-r...

This article has mainly focused on investment real estate,but most of you only own your home. Personally I am paying a mortgage on a home out in the farms of Cleveland. If you own a home in a Urban area I recommend get out now while the music is still playing. Suburban areas will be safer but not much. If you are in a good area,I recommend that you NOT pay off your mortgage,even if you can. Borrowing money at 4.5% for 30 years is an absolute steal. Use that money to but real assets that are now returning 20%+ a year. You can pay off the mortgage with worth less dollars later. I also recommend that people buy in a safe area near water and food. Owning a home is much more desirable to renting during a financial crisis. Most rentals are near other desperate people. Having a “castle”to defend is vital to surviving a collapse. You need to have a place to safely stages your preps. Being evicted during a collapse is a very dangerous experience. Just remember the 3 most important rules of Real Estate,location,location,location.

ancaro imparo.
Fri, Jul 8, 2011 - 4:27pm lilbromarky1
pourty
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Yes, that's true

lilbromarky1 wrote:
pourty wrote:

Why on earth you would hold onto debts is beyond me.Sure, PM's are generally going up, and we all believe someday the currency collapse will happen. But you don't know when.

What if they manage to hold it off for a decade or more? What if they manage to suppress metals prices? The only sure thing is to get yourself out of debt.

I know everyone will clobber me for saying it, but I see no good reason to keep debts when you simply cannot predict the future. Keeping large debts in hope of a currency collapse is a fool's game. Beyond that, there is a peace of mind that comes with knowing you don't owe anyone anything... and it's priceless.

If you default on property taxes you'll have it taken away like happy gilmore's grandma.

Yes, that's true, but property taxes are far easier to pay than mortgages and high interest debts. You'll always have to pay taxes, the point is to minimize your financial obligations to others.

Fri, Jul 8, 2011 - 4:37pm
lottiedah
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lilbromarky1: play the game

Lilbromarky,

I'm thinking you might be on to something here. The mortgage will give you the privilege to live in a home or on a property, but you'll always have to pay rent to Uncle Sam. Why tie up the capital as long as we are in an illusory economic system... work it, baby. It would be different if we were on a gold standard.

Many of us were taught money principles that were based on 'gold standard' logic. The gradual change in the game rules have slipped by us. Those who've kept up with the changes have thrived. Those who play by the old rules will lose. The gradual changes that have taken place from the 30s to the 70s were like slowly turning up the heat on the frog in the pot. The smart ones know that eventually that pot will boil.

Fri, Jul 8, 2011 - 6:24pm
silversalmon
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yet another reason!  

yet another reason!

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Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 10:18am
Spinny
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I'm 23, married, no kids. I

I'm 23, married, no kids.

I believe in no debt if at all possible. We are saving until we can either purchase/build a home in full.

Currently we have

  • No debt.
  • 1,160 oz silver and 3 oz gold. (Aprox $46,000)
  • Aprox $20,000 cash.
  • Well over 1 yr food storage and all the necessities.

We rent a nice 2,000 sq ft house for $325/month. An awesome deal.

We have our bases covered in the event of total collapse. The fact that we don't own our home might alarm some but it makes sense for us because we have family who live on farms and would likely end up there anyway. I don't think two people trying to keep a homestead going would be the most ideal.

Perfect scenario would be for our investments to fair well enough for us to get a place sometime in the near future. GO SILVER BABY!

What is the biggest public fallacy about market behavior? That markets are supposed to make sense. ~ Richard Dennis
Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 11:00am
Goofy
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Pay your debts, and live free!

Get out of debt as fast as possible man! You know i am 42, and debt free since all my life, i rent my house, drive a 16 year old small French car car and work as a carpenter 8 months a year. I use 4 months in the alps skiing and keep my cash in gold and silver. Ok i was married and have to kids (i pay aliemony and see them regulary). You know this lifestyle gives me freedom man, its freeriding on my own expense you know...This is just how i live, and i know some of you cant just get out of debt that easy but try..even if you have to default, its a cool life:))

Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 12:07pm
Eternal Student
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There's one key thing which I

There's one key thing which I haven't seen mentioned. How many months of living expenses do you have in reserve? If you're living paycheck to paycheck, one unexpected bill is going to really hurt. And these DO happen. One simply needs to keep reserves, otherwise you are back into debt city, with a steeper hill to climb.

Most financial planners recommend 6 months reserves "in the bank". Personally, I think that's bad advice, and that most FP's are complete idiots trying to get your cash. First, I'd do much longer; but 6 months is the absolute minimum. A year is better, but harder to achieve. Second, the part of keeping things "in the Bank" is also bad advice. Use a Credit Union if anything; the banks are generally insolvent, and you may not have access to your cash.

Also, PMs and cash in your physical possession is a superb play. You're simply going to need that if/when there's a "bank holiday", and your access to your cash is limited. I'd also consider stored food as part of these reserves, and an absolute "must have". You can do wonders just using coupons and sales alone, very quickly.

So, if you haven't got reserves yet, I'd build them up first. Split up between PMs, cash and food. Then, I'd really nail that debt. You can indeed default on student loans; but you'll have to become a citizen of another country. And that will take money. It's not preferable to many, but it is an option. For some, it's now the only option.

Living debt free is fantastic. It gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility. I strongly recommend it. But be sure you have dry powder, otherwise you'll be back in the hole faster than you expected.

Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 1:52pm Spinny
silversalmon
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Proud of YOU

Spinny,

I don't know you. but I Fking LOVE you! Go Bro! Keep Stacking. I'm super motivated from your post! Seriously! You got it made. I'll give you an update December 2012. Let's see what happens.

Spinny wrote:

I'm 23, married, no kids.

I believe in no debt if at all possible. We are saving until we can either purchase/build a home in full.

Currently we have

  • No debt.
  • 1,160 oz silver and 3 oz gold. (Aprox $46,000)
  • Aprox $20,000 cash.
  • Well over 1 yr food storage and all the necessities.

We rent a nice 2,000 sq ft house for $325/month. An awesome deal.

We have our bases covered in the event of total collapse. The fact that we don't own our home might alarm some but it makes sense for us because we have family who live on farms and would likely end up there anyway. I don't think two people trying to keep a homestead going would be the most ideal.

Perfect scenario would be for our investments to fair well enough for us to get a place sometime in the near future. GO SILVER BABY!

Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 2:01pm Eternal Student
silversalmon
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Renouncing my Citizenship

Renouncing your citizenship is an option I've considered, but at minimum it will cost you 75,000, that's the cheapest I could find, and that passport doesn't give me the entry in other countries I want. The one that does, is over 100,000 k. So, I'm thinking about it, but right now, it's cheaper to pay my debts off, but nice to have the option.

Eternal Student wrote:

There's one key thing which I haven't seen mentioned. How many months of living expenses do you have in reserve? If you're living paycheck to paycheck, one unexpected bill is going to really hurt. And these DO happen. One simply needs to keep reserves, otherwise you are back into debt city, with a steeper hill to climb.

Most financial planners recommend 6 months reserves "in the bank". Personally, I think that's bad advice, and that most FP's are complete idiots trying to get your cash. First, I'd do much longer; but 6 months is the absolute minimum. A year is better, but harder to achieve. Second, the part of keeping things "in the Bank" is also bad advice. Use a Credit Union if anything; the banks are generally insolvent, and you may not have access to your cash.

Also, PMs and cash in your physical possession is a superb play. You're simply going to need that if/when there's a "bank holiday", and your access to your cash is limited. I'd also consider stored food as part of these reserves, and an absolute "must have". You can do wonders just using coupons and sales alone, very quickly.

So, if you haven't got reserves yet, I'd build them up first. Split up between PMs, cash and food. Then, I'd really nail that debt. You can indeed default on student loans; but you'll have to become a citizen of another country. And that will take money. It's not preferable to many, but it is an option. For some, it's now the only option.

Living debt free is fantastic. It gives you a lot of freedom and flexibility. I strongly recommend it. But be sure you have dry powder, otherwise you'll be back in the hole faster than you expected.

Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 3:33pm silversalmon
silversalmon
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And another reason to pay your debts

In prison for debt
Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 5:02pm silversalmon
Eternal Student
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Re: Renouncing my citizenship

I believe you're talking about one of the most expensive options out there. If that were universally true you'd see almost no emigration. Just hook up with a good immigration attorney in your country of choice, and you'll find it's much cheaper if you really want to become a citizen. Takes a while longer, but from what I've heard, it's quite doable, depending on where you want to go.

Another option might be to keep dual citizenship, and then tell them you want to make a deal. They would be in absolutely no negotiating position whatsoever. That might take a little time to work out, but it's really funny how flexible things become once they realize that they can't touch you.

silversalmon wrote:

Renouncing your citizenship is an option I've considered, but at minimum it will cost you 75,000, that's the cheapest I could find, and that passport doesn't give me the entry in other countries I want. The one that does, is over 100,000 k. So, I'm thinking about it, but right now, it's cheaper to pay my debts off, but nice to have the option.

Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 5:14pm silversalmon
CK
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Renouncing really costs 75k?

Renouncing really costs 75k? Unreal. There's no way to go about it in a way that wouldn't cost huge amounts?

We're not trading against the market, we're trading against ourselves.

Sat, Jul 9, 2011 - 5:23pm CK
silversalmon
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CK wrote: Renouncing really

CK wrote:

Renouncing really costs 75k? Unreal. There's no way to go about it in a way that wouldn't cost huge amounts?

Renouncing your citizenship is free. But afterwards you're a stateless person, and that's a problem in the modern world, unless you go live with the bushmen in the Kalahari. So you need another passport and citizenship. There was mention of going to see an immigration attorney in another country in the above thread, but I haven't looked into that. The options I looked into cost 75,000 and 100,000 + to be an official citizen of those countries, plus a HIV test, which I took already.