I don't think I've seen this discussed before, what about food "hoarding" and confiscation? I know there are executive orders on the books to seize people's supplies. I think in a breakdown your main threat comes from thieves since I believe most of the law enforcement will be at home protecting their families. The problem is food isn't easy to hide, 5 gallon pails and #10 cans among other things. Split your supplies up if you have alternate locations? What do you guys/gals think? I also firmly believe just like having any PMs, "loose lips sink ships", don't tell anyone about your preps.
What do you think about food confiscation?
Living in a city here so...
Grilling up some garden fresh zucchini and a freshly butchered rabbit as your neighbors are living on severely calorie restricted diets is probably not a good idea. Defending my dinner from attack and seizure by a pack of rabid humans is the last thing I'd like my firearm doing. So yes, you need to think about things like what the safest way to cook dinner is. Will the smell attract the wolves? If so, I'd recommend avoiding that meal entirely and sticking to powdered milk and some kind of breakfast cereal.
Another possibility is to cook your food at a different time of the day. Are your neighbors all out in bread lines or searching for employment at noon? If so, that might be the best time to cook.
With all of the flooding we're seeing this year in the Midwest and the flooding in China, I think its fair to say that the food that indeed is grown successfully this year will be a significantly higher price than last year. Livestock prices will go up as well and that means protein costs will rise to meet the input costs. I don't think we need to wait for hyperinflation (which I know is coming) or a SHTF moment to see food prices rise to the point where the neighbor on food stamps can no longer acquire the calories they need.
I personally LOVE meat. I love smoked meat especially. I don't have a smoker, but I do have an old refrigerator that I didn't use and left unplugged in my garage. So I decided to make it my cold smoker. It has wire racks in it where I can hang meats or cheeses. Its shelves are large enough to hold a 20lb turkey, and I have a dryer vent ducting connected to it where the smoke enters.
The smoke source is a hot plate for cooking with a cast-iron pan on it. I put the whole hotplate and cast iron pan into a cheap-o Weber Charcoal BBQ and connected the ducting to the lid of the BBQ. The pan has woodchips and burns them to generate smoke which rises through the dryer duct and enters the refrigerator. Once inside the refrigerator it circulates between the freezer portion and the refrigerator portion. Gets nice and cold and imparts a LOT of smoke flavor into the meats.
Why the whole story about my cold smoker? Because you can cold smoke meats without the neighbors smelling meat pleasantly cooking! You can freeze the cold-smoked meat and cook on your own schedule. When you do indeed cook it, you can cook it faster and probably cook it indoors. Cooking a smoked turkey indoors takes a few hours and won't be smelled outside your home, but if you were to smoke a turkey outdoors, you know your hungry hippo neighbors would be knocking on your door.
I'm all for sharing a portion of my food storage with others when I can do so safely. I'd especially share with children who have had no control of the situation that led them to near starvation. The problem is that, like a hoard of gold and silver, you should never let them know how much you've stored and how prepared you are. If you share anything, make sure they think you're sacrificing a lot to share with them and that you don't have anything else to offer.
It's in the playbook, along with weapons confiscations. It happened during Katrina, at least the weapons part did, so it's not out of the question, especially in urban/suburban locales. IMO, the further you are away from a city the less likely you will be to have it happen. That being said, having a hidden cache of food/weapons/water or water filter isn't a bad idea. If you have property, you can dig a hole and either use a concrete vault or a plastic cistern-properly weighted so it doesn't pop up after a heavy rain-to store these items. Metal shipping containers hidden in the woods on remote property are an option, but more conspicuous. Even having a few weeks worth of freeze dried food and a weapon or two with ammo, packed in a few 6" PVC pipes (with end caps glued in place) and buried vertically with a post hole digger would be sufficient for emergencies. Just remember where you buried them, and be pretty accurate, as a 6" diameter pipe is easy to miss when digging.
That is practically impossible and not even worth considering. Logistically how would they do it? They would have to come door to door and seize it. There is no tracking mechanism for those who have food. Those with food also have guns. And what would it accomplish? How much food do people have stored. Are they going to distribute it? Do you think the govt gives a rat's rear end if the people starve?
They seize gold to stealth wealth. They seize guns to keep control of the people. These are durables. You register your guns. You are supposed to pay taxes on your gold sales. there is no database to track food storage. it is consumed.
Not sure why this would cross anyone's mind.
I am against it. :)
On a moderately more serious note, I think will not be a federal/national issue, and probably not a state issue. The concern is local (official) and local (unofficial), and so I don't think there is any one answer. Downtown Baltimore and suburban Wichita will not have the same policy.
On a local level, the local county commissioner, or mayor or sheriff may start making some choices 'for the greater good' that would go against the rights/survivability of those who are prepared. If you are concerned about that, you should probably be thinking about moving. I am.
If you are around people, if times are tough enough, they will flock to the smell of food. The question is whether they are asking or taking, and that is probably a function of the type of people and how tough things are. Tough enough, and even I might be among them. There would probably not be many left by the time I got to that point, so that is meant as an extreme example. But if you saw your child starving (I don't mean hungry, I mean not much longer to live) and smelled me baking bread, what would you be willing to do? So would everyone else, and many with less reluctance.
Caveat:obviously only applicable to the most extreme of situations, the most extreme, not the most likely scenario. But being prepared doesn't just mean being prepared for the base case expectations.
The local paper actually ran a very good spread on the depression some months back, here are some photos from that story showing the tension between government and the citizens with the captions. These are specific to farms and foreclosures, but it is faily similar to the topic. Do you really think the govt. is going to come seize your food?
A farm mortgage sale in Denison in Crawford County was held under the protection of Iowa National Guardsmen. National Guardsmen watched for violence at a forced farm sale in Crawford County April 4, 1933.
One of the most famous (and dangerous) photographs that the Sioux City Journal's chief photographer, George Newman, ever took was this one of the sheriff of O'Brien County, Ia., being forced to kneel and kiss the American flag during Farm Holiday violence in 1933. At that time, Newman was a photographer for the Sioux City Tribune. The negative for this photograph was lost when the two newspapers were merged, and only a copy remains, showing the effects of time. Newman recalls that he smuggled the film out in his shirt and that he used back roads to get from Primghar to Sioux City with the precious photographs. He was stopped once by members of the Farm Holiday movement and was allowed to proceed only after promising that The Tribune would give a "favorable report" of the incident. The sheriff was forced to kneel and kiss the flag to demonstrate his "patriotism," because it was considered "unpatriotic" to foreclose on farms.
That is practically impossible and not even worth considering...
Totally agree. Short of a Biblical Armageddon it isn't going to happen (and maybe not even then).
Confiscation of food is not that difficult to imagine. Today we live in a world of big government, which means there are hundreds of thousands (millions, even) of people employed as politicians, civil servants etc. For the most part these are paper pushers and water cooler talkers, with little to no practical skills in the way of survival i.e. growing/preparing food, or offering tangible goods & services that can be bartered for food.
The survival of these civil servant types in a SHTF scenario will depend on maintaining control of the masses by way of the muscular arm of the government - namely, police and military. To keep the latter on board they will have to keep them happy and fed. Plus, to keep the urban masses from rising up the government also will have to keep them fed as well.
When food supplies dwindle people instinctively begin to hoard, which makes the situation worse. Anti-hoarding laws can get passed, but in a state of fear these will be ignored. Therefore, in the simplest of terms I believe the government will raid any known supplies of food to feed first themselves and maybe later the starving urban masses. Most likely they will send armed squads into rural areas first, to raid farms of their stockpiles. Farmers will most likely be armed, but they'll stand little chance against heavily armed SWAT teams.
In desperate times political correctness is the first thing to exit the door, IMO.
That's an interesting bit of history in that during the Depression it was unpatriotic to foreclose on farms. And, yet, the farms were foreclosed on anyway.
So lets see if I understand this correctly. Because it was unpatriotic to foreclose on farms it was the sheriff who was publicly humiliated as he went about his job as a tool of the banker. Of course, the sheriff had the choice not to serve the papers and enforce the law, but then he'd be out of a job and his own family would suffer. Someone else would be found to wear the badge, and the dirty work for the bankers would get done anyway.
One way or another the bankers got their pound of flesh, and the law was (and is) there to protect them and serve their interests - even if it is unpatriotic to do so.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Confiscation of food is not that difficult to imagine. ..To keep the latter on board they will have to keep them happy and fed. Plus, to keep the urban masses from rising up the government also will have to keep them fed as well.
I guess one's perspective is largely influenced by what they see unfolding. A lot of people envision a situation/scenario such as was described in the book "Patriots." I think the Patriots scenario is just fantasy. Hope so; it is pretty bizarre, and not characteristic of how Americans respond to a crisis.
The "rising up" thing is why I don't think anyone (other than an idiot) would go door to door trying to confiscate food. Maybe in a totalitarian place like North Korea, but I just don't think it would be attempted here. That is a sure way to set off the kind of situation they were trying to avoid. In a crisis situation I can envision things like food and fuel rationing via coupons (has been done before), or purchase limits (has been done before).
As a side-note, US food production could significantly increase in a fairly short period. The region I live in is very much agricultural, but in the last couple of decades every food processing plant has disappeared, and most food crops have been replaced by ornamental nursery crops. The land and equipment are there to convert back to food production, which could happen quickly.
You need to look into what FEMA and the DHS have in store for your locale before you say that it is impossible. The Fourth Amendment isn't a player anymore given the latest decision by the SCOTUS and the one given by the Indiana Supremes. If martial law is declared during a national emergency, they WILL be going door to door and checking for "hoarded" food and weapons. The precedent was already set for weapons during Katrina, and the Feds have been expanding their scope. You really need to see what the feds are up to in your area before you make a blanket statement that it is impossible, because it isn't. BTW, I've never read "Patriots" and don't know what it is, but I do know what the Feds have been telling local LE what they have in mind during a "national emergency". Trust me, you won't like it.
I have heard through my network that the Feds intend and are actively working to federalize local LE. They are also trying to expand the CERT program, which is ostensibly for disaster preparedness and relief, but, if you read their mission statement it is also to assist Federal LE and the military with their knowledge of the local conditions, and to provide "intel" to outside LE. That covers a very broad spectrum.
Paranoid? Maybe, but looking at the increasing expansion of federal power in other aspects of our lives, it is wise to be wary. Hey, call me crazy, but I would rather hedge my bets with a hidden cache than find myself accused of "hoarding" and having my provisions/weapons confiscated for "the greater good" and "community safety". YMMV.
Not sure what happened to my pics. Would have liked you all to see them. Anyway, the logistics still do not work. There is no comparison to Katrina. We are talking about a nationwide crisis happening essentially overnight for this topic to even be discussed. It just isn't possible to crack down on food storers. Again, the purpose would be to do what? How much food is going to be taken? It doesn't make any sense. There would be massive violent resistance and there are more if us than them.
There will be no food confiscation from homes. They will let you keep what you have. Going forward, if there are controls imposed it will be at production points or through rationing coupons as they used during the wars. If others still think physical confiscation will happen I would like to hear how it will be done.
What!? You mean that you don't believe that when the $US crashes foreign troops will arrive to confiscate food, guns, medicine, toilet paper, and tampons, and Americans will board boxcars for FEMA detention camps where they will be executed while the majority of Americans cower in their homes or run to the hills to live off rodents? Get with it!
(And I thought I was the only one left who finds that scenario implausible.)
I would suggest the majority of effort will be focused on securing major cities to contain the inevitable rioting and looting that accompanies that kind of situation. That alone will take a significant amount of resources.
I think they try to contain the entitled masses in the inner cities and let them kill each other off. Solves a large problem for TPTB right there. Any sort of confiscation comes after that. Which side LEO goes with is the question.
I see a strong possibility of food confiscation when times get really nasty. But I don't think it will be a government project.
Good old free enterprise will once again come to the forefront when people start getting really hungry. It's not going to be uninformed officers of the law at your door, it'll be randomly dressed, hungry people you've never seen, and maybe a couple you have seen.
They will not be acting on orders to gather your goodies for the public good. They'll either be grabbing stuff at knife/gunpoint, or while you lie there with a glassy-eyed look on your freshly killed face.
Gather what provisions your family needs, keep it safe and keep it quiet. And have a weapon or two at the ready, just in case there's a knock on the door that isn't the UPS man.
I'm not going to be out there stealing from others, and they're not going to be in here stealing from me. And yes, I will share with the neighbors while I insist on something back from them, according to their abilities. The neighbor kids can pay in part just by being cuter than their idiot parents. But they can still learn to wash the dishes afterwards.
(BTW, Turd, where did you get this site's spell checker, CHINA?)
"Man is born without any weapon but his mind, if you take that away, how can you judge his actions''. I think Howard Roark said that in," the fountain head" i better double check that. FUCK FOOD CONFISCATION. Let your mind dictate the definition of food. Half the stuff out there is edible. All you need to do is ween yourself off the surgery processed fake bull shit out there. if it comes in a coffin(box) don't look at it.
Agreed, StalkingWolf... most of what the grocery has to offer is not suitable to called food, yet it is consumed by the masses gluttonously.
All you out there! Dr. Weston Price is the Great and Powerful Turd Ferguson, of food and the expression of ones genes.