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Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 12:26am (Reply to #19924)
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Mr. Fix wrote:I see we are

Mr. Fix wrote:

I see we are having a gun-control debate on DOTS today, your discussion with ancientmoney seems okay, except for one statement you made, which I vehemently disagree with.

You see wrong. I'm not debating AncientMoney on policy. I know his arguement before he writes it. I made two points. Both sides practice sophistry and their arguments don't have any validity under logic. I wrote in detail how asserting that guns prevent a rogue government from deteriorating is a fallacy. It sounds good. It feels good. It seems to embrace our founders logic, but based on US history, it hasn't prevented anything, and as a forward looking statement it is speculative. He then reiterated. I supported my initial premise, we have an irreconcilable argument and both sides practice sophistry. 

 My discussion is independent of the truth based on natural law which I embrace.. His reponses to me were on the rationale for holding guns. My responses were on the lack of effectiveness of the arguments (true or not). Do you both see the difference? And can you separate the two discussions? Because now you want to debate me on policy. 

[/quote]

You said "There are good points to be made on both sides”. (Don't nitpick, I'm paraphrasing.)

Could you please enlighten me, and inform me what you think is a good point from the gun grabbing morons?

I won't nitpick on small things, spelling, grammar, different ways of expressing the same thought. My initial statement was that we are dealing with an issue that can't be reconciled by two sides with two different believes about guns while other agenda's are being ignored, because this is more of an emotional issue.

Guns make me feel safer

Guns make me feel more vulnerable in a dangerous world.

Neither is a policy. It's group realities that can't be reconciled. That was my point. Do you see my point? 

Both can be true and false at the same time depending on the person and the situation.

"Natural Law says you have the right to defend yourself against a violent attack" YES

"Natural Law allows me to walk down the street, go to school and church without being shot" YES

Natural Law determines how people will behave? YES and NO There are natural principles that influence how a person will behave, but natural law can't defend against either incursions on your rights or incursions on a school childs rights not to be shot. That's why man created laws. Because people do not understand natural law. 

Have I made any illogical or incorrect statements at this point? I could keep tweaking those statements because I don't think either one is a perfect reflection of how natural law behaves. But I'm not writing a constitution here. 

You have natural born rights, but those can be taken away or usurped. So natural law doesn't protect you from incursion or stop you from encroaching. It is the dynamic of cause and effect on an action, there are no becauses.... The founders only approximated how natural law works by writing laws.

This is going to get complicated very quickly and I shouldn't go here but WTF.

I think (big conditional) that we all understand that there is a connection between your health and emotions and thoughts. Citing Bruce Lipton. Citing Candice Pert, Citing Louis Hayes, Citing all Emoto's work on the effect of water based on thoughts on emotions. If you are familiar with their work and have been reading along, you realize that your thoughts effect reality and specifically your health.

This law of cause and effects goes like this, good thoughts promote well being. Bad thoughts disease.

Now consider the 1st amendment.

 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Let me paraphrase it in my own words. You're free to say anything you would like without redress. (LIE, LIE, LIE). Do you and your wife practice free speech? Go ahead call her a whore. I'll wait?

Nothing stopped you from saying it, but there was repercussions. Yes? Do you have absolute freedom? Natural law more accurately would be, if you say good things, you will have an easier passage in life. If you say bad things, you could seriously encumber your freedom.

REality is, you are allowed to defend yourself, because there is somebody that will always violate natural law. If we didn't expect anybody to violate our space, we wouldn't need a law what you can or can't do in return. 

So everything depends on situation and circumstances. Tell somebody with thick skin to go screw off. not so bad. Tell a sensitive person to go screw off. What happens? How dare you. I'm coming after you or running away.

So you are free to think bad thoughts, but you'll pay the price with your body. If you say it out loud, are the consequences different? Freedom only occurs if you act in the positive. Freedom is not covered if you call someone an asshole. You were only free to say it, but not free from the repercussions. Therefore freedom and responsibly are the twin fold aspects of nature law.

Does your wife have the right not be called a slut? Does she? I say yes. Of course, if she is a slut and her behavior is effecting you, then it's appropriate. Maybe even necessary. True and necessary. If it's just acting out of anger, she has the right not to be verbally abused. She might exercisee that right with a kitchen knife.

Freedom to bear arms is no different than freedom of speech. It's not absolute. Both freedom and responsibility. You're responsible. So no problem. 

Now society is struggling with two rights. You assert. Guns make me safer. Sounds good to me. Some people assert guns make them less safe. That can be true.

If you want me to write all the bad logic on both sides, I could. But I'm not. But certainly, if you look, you can find lucid, highly logical statements on both sides.

Thus my INITIAL Statement. Irreconcible differences. A conversation that's going on for years, and will go on for more years or until USA devolves into a facism where the overload can just create an edict.

Let's wait 6 months for now. When the heat is off, emotions are down and look careful what the repercussions are. I have no doubt that there will be stiffer gun laws and more restrictions. But I think Farrell was on to something when he said other engineering is taking place. 

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 1:11am
jaba
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@ Green Lantern Re Cyprus

You mention your contact with connections to an ' international affairs fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations,' The CFR is one of the bodies that was established with the specific aim of serving and furthering the interests of the so called 'Deep State.'

You also mentioned the 'guy that rebuild Iraq the way we wanted it.' Iraq, post the second Gulf War, is a failed state as a direct result of USA's policies, and is NOT something of which the USA should feel proud! 

I have lived and worked in the Middle East in seven different countries over a period of more than 20 years and retired as a country CEO of a major global bank. As AGXIIK would say, I am a reformed banker and have written a book called

FROM WEST TO EAST

The Greatest Transfer of Power and Wealth in the History of Mankind

which includes an examination of the geopolitical situation in the Middle East and the USA's policies which are geared to create chaos and failed states as part of a larger global agenda.

By the way there is no such thing as the Royal angilian airforce. If you are referring to the British RAF, that stands for the 'Royal Airforce.' Since Cypriot independence from British rule, Britain has maintained a military presence in Cyprus, including RAF aircraft, which are placed on alert, when tensions periodically rise, such as the recent Turkish navy intercepting and diverting a drill ship from entering an area of sea under dispute. 

I have no need of a new pair of binoculars to realise that it is most unlikely that we could agree on this subject.

I will say no more except that, I suggest that we agree to disagree, and let time decide which opinion proves to be correct.

I wish you well.

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 1:36am
atarangi
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Mr.Fix said

"When the student is ready,
the teacher will appear."

This pearl of wisdom holds the secret to free energy.

Well done Mr.Fix!

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 1:55am
atarangi
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G.L. said

"REality is, you are allowed to defend yourself, because there is somebody that will always violate natural law. If we didn't expect anybody to violate our space, we wouldn't need a law what you can or can't do in return."

I would suspect that 'Natural Law ' is essentially based upon the certainty that somebody will in fact violate our space.

Survival of the fittest is alive and well last time I looked.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 3:03am
atarangi
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jaba said

 "Iraq, is a failed state as a direct result of USA's policies, and is NOT something of which the USA should feel proud!" 

This is true and my own country (N.Z.) is in a token way complicit in these dirty deeds. Thank you jaba for pointing out the truth of this matter.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 3:28am (Reply to #19929)
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I put it there for you. You didn't see all that was in it. .

I don't think that is something he was looking for. We don't buy every kind of bread in the one bakery. Nor do I expect to get news of both sides of a situation from the same source. Information is where you discover it. The yin informs by its presence about the yang's existence, we can look for the other if we find the one..

You did notice what he said about the US subverting the RC church? Did you notice the observations about hostile agents "serving" within the RCC?

You heard the dates quoted as when those events occurred.

argentus maximus Rhythm and Price https://www.greenhobbymodel.com/rhythmnprice.html This analysis - global markets
Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 4:21am (Reply to #19903)
SilveryBlue
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US has a problem

it isn't just the foreigners or the DACA people. It's the system that perpetrates the division.

It is the system that makes what you have in USA (and Europe) unachievable in their home countries. That is why they come.

USA has not been flooded with refugees from NZ or Australia. Why?

Why are their homes untenable? angel

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 8:49am (Reply to #19942)
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jaba wrote:I am a reformed

jaba wrote:

I am a reformed banker and have written a book called

The man on the left is a reformed banker too. His relationship with his son law is as family, not as an advocate of his son in laws position or what the USA did or does in foreign lands. He knows it's wrong or else we wouldn't be friends. 

And as an individual who has former ties to the deep state, his stories of what happened behind closed doors that will never see the light of the day, unless he himself decides to tell them publicly (which he won't) are about corrupt organizations that destroy people's lives. He paid a heavy heavy price especially when he told a group of high level bankers how to deal with the inflation problem and gave his freedom away when he decided to do math work for our deep state. Heavy price.

Of course, I know the purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations and our failed efforts in Iraq. I've been posting here for 7 years. 

So it sounds like we agree? past affiliations doesn't speak to current or future state of a persons loyalties. And our conversations are not about the good that is being done in the world by these organizations. 

Otherwise, peeps here wouldn't be posting and discussing revelations brought out by various former investment bankers who posts here, FBI agent whistle blowers and other government officials gone whistle blower/journalist. But they turn to them because their previous associations supposedly gives them insights into the working of the machine.

As far as the nomenclature of a particular military unit. I accept your correction. 

As far what is happening in the sea's of Cyprus, currently, it looks like we have two different versions between two former bankers, a Greek political correspondent, and the reports being given out in the Greek media from which I posted the graphics. They are giving regular updates every few hours. I am reliant on others to translate which is not a position I like to be in. I suppose they could be making it all up and Erdogan's military actions are highly exaggerated??

There could be 5 Russian submarines hanging out under my nose in New York Harbor. My close vicinity doesn't give me any special insight. So you see my problem with my family is in Cyprus and we haven't heard anything. 

I'm only giving out what I'm being told and what is being reported. And that is what most people do here, post links of what somebody else is saying that is going on.

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 9:09am (Reply to #19941)
Mr. Fix
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Good morning GL & AM...

 Top of the morning to you Green Lantern,

There you go again…

Let me do a copy and paste this time:

"But certainly, if you look, you can find lucid, highly logical statements on both sides.”

If you skip past all of my gobbledygook, I was simply asking for a lucid, highly logical statement from the gun grabbing morons.

You only presented me with ”touchy feely” discussion points, which I agree are invalid.

Natural law does not determine how people behave. It's that whole free will thingy. Natural laws can be ignored, but not without the consequences of ignoring them. We are now facing the consequences as a society.

As far as a child's right not to be shot, you say "that's why man created laws”.

I have a different perspective on that. Men create laws to ensure that people do not understand natural law. Not because they don't understand natural law. Natural laws are not taught in school, and they aren't taught in church.

There is obviously no motivation for the powers that be to disseminate such knowledge.

The war on Christianity is not an accident, Jesus taught natural laws, such things were not allowed then, and they are not allowed now.

This goes back to the motivations of the founding fathers, in establishing a federal government.

Being fully knowledgeable of natural laws, instead of forming a federal government, they could have worked to abolish state governments. That would have exponentially increased human freedom, prosperity and happiness.

Instead, they organized a gang of thugs to pillage and plunder those who were ignorant of natural laws.

Using the proceeds of this plunder, they expanded their operation to an international scale.

 With free will, you can always ignore natural laws, but,

You can't escape the consequences of ignoring of natural laws.

Under natural law, the term

"Gun control" has one, and only one meaning: Being able to hit the target you are aiming at.

Argentus Maximus,

Yeah, I noticed, as if the innocent little Roman Catholic authorities got bullied by those big bad Washington DC politicians.

He's got it completely backwards, the Vatican literally owns the United States, and under corporate contract, has since the 1800s.

It wasn't accidental either, it was always the plan. It is a well established pattern since their inception.

Debt servitude works equally well when you are a bank, or a church, and in the case of the Vatican, it is a distinction without any difference.

 Since Constantine, in 325 A.D. The Roman Catholic church has always been on a quest for global domination, and one world governance. It only uses governments to enforce its genocidal policies.

It's easier that way, because you can get the people you are slaughtering to pay for the armies doing it with their taxes.

Ignorant masses can blame stupid politicians, ignoring the profoundly evil theocracy's that are pulling their strings.

The Vatican knows exactly what natural laws are, they routinely mark populations for extermination that practice them.

This ties precisely to the difference between man's law, and natural laws.

Governments write laws to maintain human ignorance of natural laws,

And churches write “gods" laws to maintain ignorance of natural laws.

It is a dialectic that keeps both sides arguing over untruths.

It is this ignorance that perpetuates human enslavement, and perpetual war.

Almost without exception, the societies that have been exterminated for the past couple of thousand years lived under natural laws. 

The powers that be will not allow this.

Now, to tie this entire post together,

Under natural law, self-defense is an inalienable human right. Societies living under natural laws, still need to be able to defend themselves against societies that do not.

Arming the fucking shit out of each and every citizen is a great start.

It would even put an end to the "my imaginary sky daddy is better then your imaginary sky daddy” wars.

A well armed citizenry cognizant of natural laws cannot be enslaved.

Guns, without natural law knowledge, is like having a car with no tires on it, or no gas in the tank. It doesn't get you anywhere.

This is why natural laws have always been highly suppressed, to maintain human enslavement.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 9:17am (Reply to #19949)
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Mr. Fix wrote: As far as a

Mr. Fix wrote:

As far as a child's right not to be shot, you say "that's why man created laws”.

Fix, why is it that you and I are the only two persons on this website that ever long drawn out discussions about natural law, and on occaision there might be a couple of people that chime in on the subject?

And also consider that Turd has said he is a libertarian which is predicated on the principles of natural law. It's the only political "organization" that I am aware of that predicates all their policies on their understanding of natural law. In 7 years, I haven't seen any post on main street dedicated to the topic other than a couple of my posts a long time ago.

Why is it when I write about Trump's actions and cite unconstitutional and actions that don't flow with natural law, somebody lifts up their leg and FARTS really loud? Because they don't care and from their vantage point the only resolution to our collective problems is kicking some ass. There is an inability for them to see how moving the system and making decisions in accordance with natural law will create a better society. But reality is, the system, and the people who put the people in power, don't want it. I think AM might call us the Idealists. 

You seem to think that all men were created equal and that all men are equally able to comprehend these principles and apply them in their own life. NO WAY!!

The golden rule doesn't even begin to grasp at the subtle nature of this law in all things. I know people who studied this stuff their entire life and at times find themselves in situations where right action is not always an easy decision.

Dogma is ascerting any truth is absolute.

Here is a very brief outline on the gun discussion........

Total FREEDOM on guns. Who gets them, what weapon they choose, and no limits on where to carry. 

Absolute Censorship and total control

The conversation that is being had out there in the world is somewhere in between those two extremes. Dicking around with access, who should have it, in what situations, what type of weapons, what locations should be restricted etc. etc. etc. You ascert just as you do anarchy that the truth should be absolute. The problem with that is it disregards the collective consciousness. Giving all men totally freedom without accepting the responsibility, tyranny happens. If all men understood, at least better than Torquemada, how the golden rule works then fine. They don't. Do you think that a mentally disturbed person, on heavy pharmaceuticals, a history of pediophile, but is free, should be free to have absolute freedom to own anything he wants? Because if you agree that the answer is no, then you've just moved away from a policy of total allowance and now we have to discuss laws and policy.

People don't understand natural law because of consciousness and it's easy for them to be controlled. The man is not 100% for the ills in the world if the people who put them here go along with the program. 

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 11:05am (Reply to #19950)
abguy4
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People who have lived all their lives in the dark

Fix, why is it that you and I are the only two persons on this website that ever long drawn out discussions about natural law, and on occaision there might be a couple of people that chime in on the subject?

Well, that one is gonna drag me outta da bushes RE: Natural. And, I’ll try not to be offended, again. Ouch. It’s not working – look out below.

I certainly stated my opinion about Natural, and there was no follow-up. OK. Then go about yur merrie way and I’ll go on mine. All the discussion I read was based on determinations based on man’s (modern) historical behaviors, ie. The western xristian and so very properly recorded history. Ahem. Pardon me for having glossed-over most of it. Ok, ok, I did actually look for the faintest sign of new insights, but alas………………..Look. I spent the better part of my life learning how to discern data based on false hypothesis, and in the spirit of confession that’s exactly what I like about Passio – he attacks assumptions. He’s sorta stuck in the anger phase, gawd bless him, this too will pass, but that not my point. Once again here’s my 2c. Observing crazy people – or people in prison who are tortured daily - is not a good way to draw conclusions about the Nature of Man, OK? This is a prison planet. People who have lived all their lives in the dark are probably not good candidates for discussing the psychological impact of colors in the frequency spectrum. And then there’s my old favorite; ”Being well adjusted to an insane world is no testament to your sanity.” Or something like that.

We are all living in the dark here – on this planet – its been in the literature since Socrates and his story of the people living in the dark. And how exactly do you go about talking light and the psychological impact of colors to people who have never seen the Light? That would be like me trying to explain to Ata – who so VERY bravely volunteered to be my spokes-person as he sets me up to charge a hardened 50 cal machine gun nest armed with his bravado and my good intentions. Thanks soooo sincerely Ata. Where’s my jokes?

Don’t wanna quit on that note, so, if anyone cares, I’ll post a list of books that focus on re-minding us as to our true Nature.

GL I am torn between pity, sympathy, understanding and resentment for those two old guys. I think there is an entire generation of old guys who came to their senses (their true Nature) but too late in life to affect the world positively as they know they have in the negative. Hellava way to deteriorate and waste away.

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 12:04pm
ancientmoney
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"FBI Involvement. Ongoing

"FBI Involvement. Ongoing internal investigations on law enforcement responses to the threats Cruz posed already reveal how the FBI alongside local law enforcement repeatedly failed to follow up on reports of the supposed assailant’s unusual behavior, weapons ownership, and disturbing online media posts. The FBI’s failure in this regard was condemned by Florida Governor Rick Scott and the US Justice Department. The bureau admitted an individual close to Cruz phoned the FBI’s Public Access Line on January 5 to report information concerning Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, unpredictable behavior and ominous social media posts. The party also stated that Cruz could likely carry out a mass shooting. The information was never forwarded to the FBI’s Miami office and investigated further.

Or was it? According to investigative journalist Trevor Aaronson, throughout the so-called “War on Terror” the FBI has been directly involved in cultivating terrorists through its network of informants, and often encouraging their activities. “Our nation’s top law enforcement agency, traditionally focused on investigating crimes after they occur,” writes Aaronson, “now operates more as an intelligence organization that tries to preempt crimes before they occur. But how many of these would-be terrorists would have acted were it not for an FBI agent provocateur helping them?” Was Cruz manipulated to take up arms against his Stoneman Douglas peers? Or, was he somehow maneuvered to the scene, as the observations of one eyewitness suggests, while other more capable gunmen carried out the slaughter?"

https://www.globalresearch.ca/parkland-school-shooting-top-10-reasons-for-deeper-interrogation/5630246

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 12:46pm
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Abguy,  Do you have pity on a

Abguy, 

Do you have pity on a young man fresh out of an Ivy League college that goes to work with Goldmann Sachs to help his masters accrue the worlds’ fortunes? If so you pity Andrew McQuire.

Do you pity a young attractive woman, who wants to use her skills to help her country who ends up getting shafted by her masters and seeing things she wasn’t supposed to see? Then you feel sorry for Sibel Edmonds

Do you feel sorry for a strong woman with ambition, who wants to be somebody, gets selected to be the head of a government agency, then discovers a mountain of financial impropriety? Then you feel sorry for Catherine Austin Fitts

Do you have pity for a sharp, young man with above average technical skills that finds out his company is spying on the American people and has to leave his own country? (if that’s the narrative, then you feel sorry for Ed Snowden)

Do you have pity on JABA, a reformed banker, that saw another way to view life?

So I’m not getting your pity on a man that learned through the school of hard knocks what the system was all about. He knows not through learning about it on zero hedge but through living it, and seeing it.

Do you think he is asleep?

I can actually show him fibonacci and planetary stuff in the markets and he goes ahhh. They didn’t teach him that at Princeton or on Wall Street. But he is awake enough to get it.

You pity a man that knows how to look t overhead resistance before he buys a bag full of shiny commodity so he doesn’t have to sit waiting for it to come back to purchase price for 7 years?

The thing with “I pity the poor fool” says I know better. I am at a higher station in life which is very different from compassion which says, I know your pain for I have walked in your shoes.

We live on a planet of restriction. Most of the restriction is inborn. Socrates said that too through Plato. As you say, given the truth, shown the light, man will turn away his head.

I’ve said many times, Plato’s Republic is not a political treaties. It was a lesson on spiritual law given to the people of his time in a way the people of that time would understand. Same as Heremtic Law and same as Jesus teaching his disciples on the mount. It is an idealist ideology because it is predicated on a false premise, what if everybody did right? This is how he decided to teach the laws of freedom to his people.

 The purpose of life on earth according to the literature is to give you the opportunity to learn it. Because you are here because you need to learn it. So Greek banker man, FBI lady, and CIA boy learned about ti through their experiences. Is that bad? NO. That’s the prime directive in action. Their experiences gave them a new view on life or a higher state of consciousness to view what is going on in the world.

Every wise man has taught these principles to their students. Why? Not as a course in philosophy, but as a tool to apply in your daily life to experience freedom from your slavery.

It would be a divine joke if the supreme being never made truth available for people and a “WAY” (TAO) of how to escape our self imposed and outer imposed slavery.

I like Ron Paul. I don’t ever think he had or has a chance in hell. It doesn’t matter. That’s probably not his mission whether he is aware of it or not. But he is a vehicle to uplift people who are ready to understand basic principles of natural law and repercussions of encroachment. The same teachings are given in a more esoteric way in many teachings but he has the essence. An enlightened type person doesn’t give it out because he thinks it can take on a mass level. He gives it to the followers that are ready to listen and comprehend because it has to be self applied. These laws are taught in some fashion in almost all cultures over time. Jesus says this directly to his followers. Some of you are just not going to get it. Go as far as you can. Some of you can follow me (and they understood what that really meant) and receive the inner message directly. The Hindu’s call it Dharma. The Chinese the Tao. Living a right life because making poor choices has repercussions of lessening your freedom.

Here is our fundamental difference. You say it’s a prison planet. I agree but not my terminology. I say there is opportunity for people to experience spiritual freedom if they have and understand the tools. As a collective, we obviously do not apply them in the political realm but it seems more and more people, libertarians, anarchists and voluntarists see fit to keep these idea’s in the public consciousness. Because if we never talk about them, that would be BAD. Really bad. They disappear and evaporate. If people do not apply these things in their life, there is no way, they can use these tools to create a better republic. The cycles will have their say, because we are not clever enough to break these dysfunctional cycles. I guarantee you that enlightened type people are capable of collapsing the wave function.

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 12:59pm
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I had the Greek Shipping

I had the Greek Shipping Magnate send me links to Greek Video taken from aboard the ships around Cypress. I'm rewatching the video now on device but it's all in Greek but you can see the Turkish ship threatening the tanker.

Yes, some of them go back several months of Turkish ships threatening various countries tankers including a Russian tanker that told the Turks to go fuck off. 

The Italian ship that was just turned away had to go to I think he said to Morocco at a cost of a million dollars a day? The question posed to me is how many million dollars of loss to NATO countries will they withstand before somebody launches something back at the turkish ships?

He's given me two scenario's. The situation comes to a head. EU talks Turkey down from their stance or USSA ships quietly and discreetly move the Turkish ships out of the way and we hear nothing more about it. I'll skip all the stuff about Israel. 

They don't disagree with JABA that this is business as usual but feel his point of view stems from this being a regular occurrence so he feels no big deal but this behavior can't continue because of the $ losses.

I'm pretty sure while the average Cyprian might know this is a daily occurrence, there was no American here that is aware of this dynamic. I wonder how far from the truth that statement is? 

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 2:04pm
abguy4
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straighten me out

Wow, thanks for knocking "pity' off my list of considerations. I'm clear on that now. Crystal Clear.

Care to straighten me out on my other useless reactions; " sympathy, understanding and resentment "?

Are we clear
Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 2:29pm (Reply to #19955)
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abguy4 wrote: Wow, thanks for

abguy4 wrote:

Wow, thanks for knocking "pity' off my list of considerations. I'm clear on that now. Crystal Clear.

Care to straighten me out on my other useless reactions; " sympathy, understanding and resentment "?

Are we clear

I have no idea what you are experiencing or why

Or what two old Greek former sombodies brings up for you. You are entitled to whatever adjectives feel right to you. Maybe it's not about what they did

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 3:54pm
ancientmoney
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Ruffian, GL on the gun issue...

from Brandon Smith:

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
– Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
– Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
– Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

The inborn right to self defense and the ability of the people to maintain individual liberties in the face of tyranny supersedes all other arguments on gun rights. In fact, nothing else matters.

As an aside, I still agree with GL, that the shootings, false flags, etc. are engendering more than just gun rights issues. As the system falls ever more toward failure, the elites try to create dissension, division, war, and anything else they can in order to cover their criminality.

https://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/02.18/shootings.html

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 4:58pm
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Ancient Money, I read your

Ancient Money, I read your founders quotes. So based on my post to Fix, where I described two absolutes, Make guns and all weapons available to all citizens in all situations, and the other side, ban everything, take away all guns. Those are the two extremes. Absolutes. So am I understanding your argument correctly.

You are advocating the absolute moral argument of no restraint. Make all weapons available, bump stocks, Ar15, shoulder propelled rocket launchers to all people at all times, because you believe the founders said so, or at least meant that and they knew natural law? REasons and motivations don't matter or they do matter? 

Just a two or three line summary that characterizes your position and answers my question.

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 5:23pm (Reply to #19958)
ancientmoney
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GL, on founders' quotes...

Why not throw in a suitcase nuke for the few who could afford one. I'm sure they are available on the black market for a goodly sum.

Criminals already have access to Uzi's, rocket launchers, etc., so bump-stocks for the plebes is not that big a deal. 

And, if they are banned (which they already are), criminals will still have them, and we can protect ourselves with B-B guns.

Or, are you stating that the absolute would be for the government to pass out one of every possible weapon to every citizen (and why not to every illegal immigrant, too) to even the landscape?

By the way, an AR-15 is not really much different than my old Remington semi-auto rifle, except it does have the capability of a larger clip, and is smaller caliber. An AR-10 would be the caliber equivalent.

Tue, Feb 27, 2018 - 5:28pm
abguy4
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sharing a little research

Maybe its just me, but I think the population is under far FAR more threat from this than guns;

sharing a little research, after getting a new nickname, soi boi,

very enlightening, broadened my perspectives, thanks ruffie

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