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Sun, Oct 8, 2017 - 5:54pm
silver66
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enjoying DOTS discussions

This weekend squeezed off a few at the trap range with some buddies, played some golf, visited with family and have a few of the spawn home for Thanksgiving, about to carve the turkey soon. We have a lot to be thankful for, in particular I am grateful my mind has opened up to new ideas in the last 10 years.

Just watching the final round of the Dunhill cup at St Andrews (muted) and scanning youtube.

This came up that is in line with DOTS

Enjoy

THIS is Why The Sumerians are NOT Taught in School - Sumerian Tablets - Lost Ancient Civilization

silver66

Silver66 Rage against the dying of the light

Sun, Oct 8, 2017 - 6:37pm
NW VIEW
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Yes I agree with much of your view.(not all)

One thing, Mr. Fix, which is overlooked on these forums. The ones who have added so much to the Alternative Medicine forum, as they do not fully understand their impact on thousands of readers. AG1969 has had a wonderful time of educating many of us along with Sierra Skier,Maryann, flyinkel, G.L. and many others.

I do receive private messages from posters and many are involved in serious medical issues. It takes some real bravery to try something new, outside of the pills of death. Linda is doing great, cancer free (HEALED, a word that the doctors will not use) and is joining a bowling league tonight. Thanks to all who have helped with her in seeking of health. Jim

NW VIEW >>>1 Cor. 1:18
Sun, Oct 8, 2017 - 11:04pm (Reply to #16399)
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Green Lantern gets a reply...

Good evening,

Thanks for the reply, with some seriously thought-provoking questions, that deserve not just answers, but also clarifications denoting my rationale.

We will start with the ambulance, which typically also applies to all other “emergency" vehicles.

Yes, I get out of the way, but the law has little to do with it. I'm sure we have both seen ambulances laying on their side in the middle of an intersection, as a direct result of being broadsided in the process of running a traffic light.

It can easily go the other way, and often does, where an ambulance, or a firetruck, or a police car, broadsides and kills someone who was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Personally, as a general policy, I give everyone the right-of-way, because I value my life, and I value my car.

For example, I don't assume just because there's a blinker on somebody's front corner flashing that he is about to turn into the road that I am about to pull out of. I also don't assume that people see me coming. Many times, they're not even looking.

I have often come to a dead stop at a crossroads, when I had the right-of-way, and watched a car run a stop sign, then slam into the guard rail on the other side of street. "Right-of-way" is a legal term that often does not apply in the real world.

There is a reason why I've never had “an accident”, why I have absolutely zero points on my drivers license, and why I have driven the same car for the past 39 years, while keeping it in good running condition for the past 49 years. My father has wrecked that car, he drove it into a telephone pole when it was almost brand-new. In fact, it was the first time the car saw snow. It didn't do well. As an eight-year-old, I performed my first large-scale collision repair on that car. My mother wrecked it also, by slamming on her brakes on a combination of a blind turn with a traffic light at it, and getting her ass hit real, real hard. My sister stole it from me in high school, and brought it back mangled both front, rear, and both sides.

Don't ask me how she did it, she's never given a straight answer even if her life depended upon it. While I carelessly left it at the top of my driveway, my wife backed up the driveway with a van with poor rearview vision, and backed right into it, significantly damaging both vehicles.

When my daughter was 16, and 1st learning how to drive, she forgot to "always leave yourself an out”, and slammed it into the rear of one of her own classmates . Who stopped suddenly for no reason whatsoever when they were both driving to the same place, at the same time. She now understands that other people do particularly stupid things, for no apparent reason while they are driving. 

I have literally been pounding that car back into shape for the past 48 years, logged half a million miles in it, and I myself, haven't put a scratch in it. I consider myself responsible for it's care when I am driving it, same as after when other people have been driving it.

Many times I have engaged in evasive actions that thwarted the universe's best attempts at destroying the vehicle while I was in it.

In the process, I've ignored pavement markings, and even roads, stop signs and lights, to get out of the way of imminent danger. It's not a miracle, it's just basic situational awareness.

I have a symbiotic relationship with that vehicle, I take good care of it, and it takes good care of me. 

I still haven't gotten stuck in it yet, I have finished every journey I have started, and I would still drive it anywhere today.

If I read my hermetics right, it has a trustworthy soul.

Assuming that an emergency vehicle was bearing down on me at a high rate of speed, would induce me to get out of its way whether or not I was legally required to do so. I care not if there is a passenger in the ambulance who is seconds away from death,

 or a law enforcement officer late for his free Dunkin' Donuts. I get out of the way of all vehicles that speed recklessly. Self preservation might not be the highest of motives, but you asked, and I answered.

The story on the relationship with my car is a critical factor, because it has literally become a friend over the last 48 years, and I get out of way way of shitheads on the road to preserve its life as well. Understandably, most people wouldn't consider that a valid consideration, in fact, most people would think it's just plain nuts, but in my case, it is a genuine factor that I take into consideration. So in that sense, it's not so entirely selfish, but I will admit, from most peoples perspective, that is a stretch.

You can just as easily consider such a relationship "An unnatural emotional attachment". So be it, but such a distinction wouldn't change my motivation.

If one of my Subarus got wiped out tomorrow, I'd have another one just like it the next day. I wouldn't feel a thing.

Last year, when that piece of shit deputy sheriff ran me off the road, for at lease a little while, I considered what I would have done in a different car. For example, if I was in my Cadillac Eldorado, I might not have swerved out of his way, because having a head-on collision with a scumbag Government employee, could have been extraordinarily profitable, particularly since he never would've been able to pretend I was in the wrong lane. Yes, given the right circumstances,

I could actually use a car as a weapon. In such a case, it would've been purely defensive. wink (No remorse at all).

Quite frankly, I don't think my behavior would change much regardless of what the laws were. 

As an example, I put four studded snow tires on my car for the winter, and I couldn't care less how heavy it snows.

 I don't miss a blizzard, they are fun to drive in. Especially with the top down. It's the kind of storm chasing I like to do.

It's also what I do for an occasional adrenaline rush.

Studded snow tires are illegal in New York State. I don't give a shit.

They are what is required for my car to navigate in the snow. Fuck the law.

I hope this clarifies how I would react, and why, to high speed emergency vehicles. They're just another asshole driving too fast to me.

Now let's address the man across the street accosting a woman. I would be making a distinction as to whether he was causing her bodily harm, or was just simply snatching her purse. There is a difference. I might also evaluate whether or not I could take him. I would also need to evaluate if it could be done anonymously. In other words, no witnesses.

In many cases, I could seriously fuck up some scumbag pounding on a woman, but in today's society, I would be the one being sued.

Now we are simply talking a cost-benefit analysis, weighed with my own personal satisfaction. I actually find it pleasurable to completely fuck up a bullies day.

If there weren't any lawyers around, in other words, no codes or statutes making rendering aid a crime, it's highly likely I would do more of it.

There have been cases in my past where I have come to the defense of people who needed it, without giving much thought as to whether or not it was the right thing to do. My gut simply told me to act, and I've even sustained personal injuries in the process of "doing the right thing”. I don't personally think the principle of "non-interference” applies in the case you cited. "evil will thrive when good men do nothing about it”. 

That being said, there's been plenty of times in my past where I have offered aid that was not requested, and learned the meaning of "no good deed shall go unpunished”. Typically, I now require that someone ask for assistance, or at minimum, I will first ask "can I help you”, and wait for an affirmative answer before coming to others' rescue. Obviously, this doesn't apply to your scenario, but let's just say that the woman you described was also screaming for help.

In such a circumstance, permission has been granted, and I know it's not just a spat between lovers. That is something that it would be better to avoid.

This particular question has a broad set of variables, that would have to be decided in the moment, and very quickly. I can share with you my thought processes regarding it, and various scenarios that might determine my actions. I know that law enforcement is fucking worthless in such a situation,

So it wouldn't be a factor. 

If the situation for example, was an armed robbery, or an active shooter, and I had the shot, I would take it. Then I would disappear.

The purse snatcher, that I would become uninvolved with, is a judgment call based on nobody getting hurt, and a woman carrying a purse should be responsible for it. They have the option of either not having anything particularly valuable in it, or being able to defend themselves. Either way, that is their responsibility, not mine. If she whipped out a revolver and blew the muggers head off, it would put a smile on my face.

I hope I have covered that one enough, for you to have at least some clarity as to my thinking on that subject.

Let's move onto the jumper.

You gave me two options, and I wouldn't take either of them. I would clear the sidewalk below him, so innocent people didn't get hurt.

I have personally intervened in attempted suicides in the past, with only temporary success. You can't really stop somebody with a death wish.

Noninterference applies here, regardless of my feelings about it.

 The best that I can do, is make sure no one else gets hurt.

On an occasion where I actually discovered a suicide by overdose, which was not all that unexpected, after multiple failed attempts at trying to preserve that life, I was the one who had to call the police, and report it. While I was waiting out in the street, 10 cop cars arrived together, and they all ran into the house with their guns drawn.

What a bunch of assholes.

As for the middle of your post, we are largely in agreement, the hermetic/spiritual principles, do have overrides that I'm aware of, particularly when you address them on multiple planes of existence. You still have to serve in a higher dimension, in order to maintain sovereignty in a lower dimension.

I'm still working on the intricacies of that, not just the the prioritization, but the actual practice.

 By the way, I actually consciously got myself into a lucid dream last night, and I did it intentionally, for the first time, in a very, very long time. The story line was quite vivid, and I was very familiar with my surroundings.

As it so happened, I had to chase a mail truck down one street, in order to assist a friend who had just missed the truck. While I was returning after delivering a package to the truck, I realized I was on an adjacent street. That was the clue I needed. Instead of running home, I literally flew, just because I knew how to, and I knew that I could. Wait, it gets better. I landed in my own driveway, and I've never been good at landing.

I was so excited by that particular success, it woke me up. But it is progress.

Near the end of your post, you cited many examples of where even the freest of men are still enslaved in many ways. That's when it becomes a matter of perspective.

For example, I've spent most of my life running my body into the ground, due to lack of eating, and lack of sleep. Eating for example, became functionally a daily ritual that served no other purpose then when you would feed your dog, or pull into a gas station to refill your car. I considered it a chore.

Sleep only came when I was too tired to function anymore, and could not continue. 

That's changed.

I now take the time to eat only really good food, something that's actually good for my body, instead of only seeking to fill the void in my gut. I try to make it a pleasurable enough experience that I actually look forward to it, instead of dreading it.

My lucid dreaming episode last night is the direct result of practicing certain techniques with that as a desired outcome.

Since I love a challenge, it is something I look forward to now.

So in a sense, I don't feel quite so enslaved to my body as I have in my past, and see it as a handy functional item that gets me around, and helps me accomplish the things that I desire to do. I should at least treat it as well as I treat my car, not just to maintain its functionality, but to actually enjoy the process.

Over the past couple of years, I have identified many of the restrictions that I have subconsciously placed upon myself, some have been overcome, others I am working on. I am definitely conscious of a heck of a lot more than I was just a few years ago.

For example, I used to allow my customers to choose me, now, I choose them. It's a slight distinction, but it's one of the benefits of being the boss. Hint,

The customer is not always right. In fact, I find it to be a rarity these days.

Self-worth has always had a direct impact on what I charge, so I've made a conscious decision to be very, very expensive.

At least now, I am well compensated for the chores I must perform, for the "privilege" of living on this rock I was born on.

Yes, I do see the encroachment of a tyrannical police state boxing humanity in, but I think that freedom, as well as happiness, is a state of mind that you do have some control over. It's kind of like my reply to Jim, with my references to "the kingdom of God”. As Jesus also said in the Gospel of Thomas,"The kingdom of god is everywhere you look, but few are able to see it”. 

That's just pure hermeticism, so I continue to seek, and perceive that "kingdom", both inwardly, and outwardly, which goes a long, long way towards achieving freedom in an un-free world.

Maybe I've answered all your questions, maybe I haven’t, but I did enjoy writing this.

Your turn, how would you answer those questions?

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Sun, Oct 8, 2017 - 11:47pm
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Yes, I get out of the way,

Yes, I get out of the way, but the law has little to do with it. I'm sure we have both seen ambulances laying on their side in the middle of an intersection, as a direct result of being broadsided in the process of running a traffic light.

Ok good. Self Preservation. That's good. That's your responsibility. Protect yourself and your property. You didn't mention anything about the dying guy in the ambulance. Let's assume the ambulance has a big flashing sign, guy dying in 5 minutes, would you please move? That doesn't factor into the reason you would move? 

Now let's address the man across the street accosting a woman. I would be making a distinction as to whether he was causing her bodily harm, or was just simply snatching her purse. There is a difference. I might also evaluate whether or not I could take him. I would also need to evaluate if it could be done anonymously. In other words, no witnesses.

In many cases, I could seriously fuck up some scumbag pounding on a woman, but in today's society, I would be the one being sued.

Now we are simply talking a cost-benefit analysis, weighed with my own personal satisfaction. I actually find it pleasurable to completely fuck up a bullies day.

Good. Same here. Assess the situation. Determine if I can assist without serious harm. If I can distract or scare them off. Or yes, call for greater gun power. Bottom line: Help somebody else preserve life, and property and harm in general. Who needs that walking down the street? Almost automatic right? 

On an occasion where I actually discovered a suicide by overdose, which was not all that unexpected, after multiple failed attempts at trying to preserve that life, I was the one who had to call the police, and report it. While I was waiting out in the street, 10 cop cars arrived together, and they all ran into the house with their guns drawn.

What a bunch of assholes.

Agreed. What a bunch of A-holes but once again you acted out some sort of altruistic impulse. Preserve life. A heart based action. You smelling where I am going? The man lost reason. Lost grasp of his reason for being here. His self worth. maybe the harm he would do to others emotionally if he disappeared from the world.

So here is where we are going. In each case, you reacted to preserve life. In the first instances, your welfare and property but didn't mention if you would act for the welfare of the individual if you knew that you weren't going to be forced off the road by police or the ambulance. Would you move voluntarily to preserve the life of another.

That's a natural law. Preserving life. If you walked into Jim Jones compound before they were all going to take the poison, would you run in and say HEY WAIT ONE FUCKING MINUTE. I just saw Bruce Springstein in the parking lot. You'd better hurry if you want his autograph. You'd persuade. You might even lie for a greater good. PRESERVATION OF LIFE.

But wait a minute? You encroached on the sovereignty of people who out of their own free will wanted to take poison and die. Same with the suicide person? You took their freedom away?? They never had freedom. They weren't acting out of free will. You are giving them something. Something inside is telling you protect people who either don't have the means to protect themselves or just don't know better. How far would I go? As far as is reasonable. If they come at me with a knife, I'm yelling take the poison. Otherwise, I might snatch it out of their hands. I might even take away their freedom. Get them on the ground and yell WTF is wrong with you boy. If somebody wants to take their life, they will take their life. It is against God's law, Natural law, and any spiritual law I've read to take your own life.

However, I find it humorous that man tries to penalize a person that would take their own life. But if they succeed, they are now out of reach of authorities. I'm not judging a man for his pain. Just giving him a little helping hand so he can get some help.

Your impulses to do the right thing were already inside you. You didn't have to refer to a book of laws. A religious scripture. You knew. Kind of what you were saying to Jim. Truth is inside you. 

In a perfect world, no laws are necessary. No government is necessary because People do the right thing, not out of moral compulsions, out of inner knowingness. This is called Dharma in eastern philosophies. Knowing right action in any given situation. Sometimes encroachment is necessary, and sometimes it's a violation.

A parent is always making these decisions. How much freedom should I give my child. A friend had her 2 year old walking on a picnic table. HOw close should she be so the child doesn't fall of the table? HOw much freedom to explore vs how much restriction to preserve the child's wellbeing.

You know in many cultures parents are symbiotic with their children. AKA Co-dependent. Very very bad. Other parents know how to teach their children responsiblity and give them freedom to make choices including mistakes.

Guess what. Most adults are emotionally children. I saw a guy with gray hair. Maybe in his late 50's or early 60's. Could have been an old looking 50 year old having a tantrum in the street because he missed the bus. I have seen adults loose it for all sorts of reasons. This guy was crying and jumping up and down like a child. Really strange. Most people go, Oh Shucks, missed the bus.

What Scott Adams is saying and he has been saying this since day one with Trump. Trump is dealing with irrational people especially on the left. I kinda think on the right too. And if he has to use all forms of persuasion to get the ship into port, and bring the country through because people don't know better. That is morally acceptable. I agree with him that people don't know better but not necessarily that even Trump knows better. He is persuading for his own agenada.

IN the case of a suicide, you're doing the samething. If my wife comes home and says to me she is going to take most of our money and invest in something that I think is absolutely horrible, I'm going to pull a trump and talk her down. She wouldn't but just saying.

Most people aren't in tune with their inner selves. Their dharma. They need to be told. Hence the Ten Commandents. Don't do this, don't do that, yet the highest natural law presupposes all the others. If you love God, love thy neighbor, then you don't need to be told not to steal your neighbors grocieries or don't screw his wife, because you know automatically respect all life. All property just as the natural law says. You honor this above all other protocols. 

How do you determine right action in any situation. Is the action true? Kind? Or Necessary? And these are difficult questions to answer at times. But these are just guidelines. Some peopel are very in tune and know what to do. most of us might have our on days and off days.

The more society and people ignore natural law, the more authorities have to pass codes, and laws to control people. The mass majority of the world does not know right actin. I have a friend. He was writing me and telling me about a book called "How To Know God". I don't know the book and don't know the author but he said. Don't remember the author, but it was about the yoga aphorisms of Patanjali. It was the first time he ever read any Eastern teachings (out of India), and it made an impression. Two comments stuck with him. One was that 99% of the people in the world are completely asleep within the kali yuga, the iron age, and that will not change. Truly spiritually awake souls are incredibly rare. Also, that we imbibe in the characteristics of that which we associate with, so choose carefully.

I don't necessarily agree with this take but I could buy into the setiment. The iron age is the period of decline and crime and mischief of all sorts. We are seeing more weird events and more controls. These controls were precided many years ago in the literature I've read. Read it 26 years ago. It's here. 

Anyway, in Plato's great Republic. It would be the wise elder who makes the decision of whether to ban thos bump stocks or allow people to buy them based on his ability to know whether they would create harm in the ahnds of adult children. 

Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 12:28am (Reply to #16401)
Mr. Fix
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Why The Sumerians are NOT Taught in School

Silver 66, that was a great find.

He sure packs a lot of information into a short space, something that I've been studying a lot of.

My answer to the question, should be obvious by now but I'll repeat it.

Schools are merely indoctrination centers, that propagate a completely false narrative for the purpose of maintaining human enslavement. It doesn't matter whether the government, or a Western religion runs it, they only teach pure bullshit, particularly on history.

The Sumerians destroy the official narrative, and forces one to reach conclusions far outside of the mainstream.

It destroys the premise of the biblical version of creation, the entire Old Testament narrative, destroys Darwinism as a basis for anything, but it also leaves you exploring the impossibility of them being the first civilization as well.

Personally, I don't buy Zacharias Stitchen's interpretation either, because Sumaria is not a standalone, the same stories appear all over the planet, pointing to a far more ancient global civilization, with an extremely high order of knowledge and technology.

Our schools want to make damn sure nobody goes looking for those answers.

Make no doubt about it, the elite already have all those answers, and are keeping it for themselves.

Knowledge is power, and those scumbags don't share anything.

I still tell my daughter all the time, never let school get in the way of your education.

It seems to work well.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 12:45am
atarangi
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I like it

I have yet to see a better definition of school.

The reality of school is that those who are in charge make the rules.

I can remember as a youngster the blatant bullshit propaganda justifying the rape and plunder of indigenous peoples.

I am not judging it because they lived by the same laws.

The deal is that bullshit needs to be called out for what it is.

Mr.Fix has a way with words when it comes to calling bullshit.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 12:57am
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Green Lantern

Give me a minute, I've got to read that one closely.

You say

" Let's assume the ambulance has a big flashing sign, guy dying in 5 minutes, would you please move? That doesn't factor into the reason you would move?"

Good idea, next time I am in a hurry, I'll put that sign on the top of my car. It would probably work.

When I was a teenager, I used to buy police cars from New York State at auction, back when you could still get Plymouth Fury with a 440 cu. in. engine. Because they were profoundly distinctive as a police interceptor, I could simply turn the red lights on the rear deck 180°, put my four-way flashers on, and cars would pull over in front of me many hundreds of feet before I got there. It worked great! Putnam Valley to Pleasantville in 10 minutes. devil (Those cars could also do 140 miles an hour).

I already told you, everyone plays by the same rules, or they are useless. cheeky

Carving out an exception for officialdom, can only be defined as tyranny.

So I guess, that guys time was up.

By the way,

I already told you, if the guy just drives like a fucking idiot, I get out of his way for other reasons.

I do appreciate the effort you're making, but, rules are rules.

At least based on principles, that's how I see it.

Official vehicles are exempt from all rules of the road, that the rest of us have to abide by.

That is just a fucking danger to all of society. Including your soon-to-be corpse in the back of the wagon.

PS,

Of course I pullover in the hopes of preserving someone's life, might even be somebody I know,

And I do believe in a voluntary society, most people would.

I was just fucking with you. 

I wrote most of that narrative just to avoid answering such a simple question, just because I could, and pointing out that legal mandates only accomplish more death, it doesn't save lives.

For everyone of your "this guy will be dead in five minutes" scenarios, there is an ambulance broadsiding a school bus.

Two can play that game.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 1:39am (Reply to #16404)
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Green Lantern,

Okay, I read the rest of your post, and we are largely in agreement here, with one blazing exception:

"The more society and people ignore natural law, the more authorities have to pass codes, and laws to control people."

Okay, I'll concede that that is what they do, but it's not because they have to, it's because they are trying to exacerbate the departure from natural law.

Passing codes and statutes and creating "crimes against the state", which are actually victimless crimes, and I would argue, are not even crimes at all, until law-enforcement shows up, and ROBS YOU AT GUNPOINT!

That is the REAL crime, and the ONLY crime

It is also the true purpose for creating all of those new laws.

We have a ridiculous amount of laws, and a ridiculous amount of people in cages, and this is not helping society, or compensating for a lack of natural laws, it is de-railing society for the personal profit of those running it.

Our traffic courts are purely for the profit of the town, under common law, if there is no victim, there is no crime.

 Common law courts were used solely to adjudicate just compensation when there was actually a victim.

That's natural law.

It's been replaced with admiralty Law, or "civil" law and now courts are just for-profit enterprises. So are jails, and so are militaries. 

I would imagine that most legislative sessions now begin with the open question

"How can we screw them even harder today?"

The introduction of victimless crimes points to other motives then authorities simply compensating for a loss of natural laws.

Natural laws simply aren't profitable to the authorities, and as you say correctly, they are already etched within our hearts.

On that basis alone, writing laws down is just pure redundancy at best, but what we've got, is just a criminal enterprise masquerading as an authoritative law writing entity.

I'm not buying that one at all. cheeky

"He who governs the least governs best". I'm pretty sure Lao Tzu covered that one. 

That would dictate that there is never a legitimate reason to depart from natural law/common-law, Unless your motives are purely malevolent, and geared toward societal destruction.

This might be one of those chicken and egg arguments, but I would argue that the imposition of these laws is what has destroyed society, while it appears to me that your premise is that society was going down the tubes, so these laws needed to be instituted.

Would you care to argue that one? angel

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 2:04am
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the more corrupt the government

the more laws. Natural law in terms of perception represents a system of empirical principle that has evolved over time through custom and tradition guided by an inherent trust in God.

In fact natural law has only one valid definition - "survival of the fittest".

The stark reality of natural law is that only the strongest survive.

Of course the meek will eventually be strong.

Every dog has it's day.

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 3:01am
atarangi
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what's happened to Ruff ?

Just kidding - she'll be back.

Probably dreaming up a new avatar.

G.L. is most likely nodding off in his basement studio.

Who knows - Dot's moves in mysterious ways!

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 4:31am
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It's hard to find the perfect forum

Dot's is close enough though.Image result for the perfect forum animated gif

In high tide fish eat the ants, in low tide ants eat the fish. - Thai proverb
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 6:49am (Reply to #16408)
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Okay, I read the rest of your

Okay, I read the rest of your post, and we are largely in agreement here, with one blazing exception:

Good. And I'll ask the question, rhetorical, are you and I at the same place we were when we began this conversation? NO. And it's a pain in the ass to write all these words sometimes even when I enjoy these subjects.

Jim, when people are willing to discuss. Take the time to eulicidate on different concepts. People reconsider issues. Happens all the time. Not only on topics of health. Can you say you've learned nothing from others on even matters of religion? If people have come here and have walked away with no additional insight or thinking the same way as when they came. That's a rigid individual. I'm certain there are topics presented here that while they may be vetted in other places on the internet. The diverse range is pretty unique.

When people walk away from conversations, deflect, use sophistry, or don't defend their points because they are offended then yeah. Nothing is gained. These are often charged conversations. So even if Fix and I don't end up in total disagreement was the effort worth it. If I am going to play, I'm not going to get lazy. Even if I have to finish the conversation in the future. End of rant. 

Natural laws simply aren't profitable to the authorities, and as you say correctly, they are already etched within our hearts.

On that basis alone, writing laws down is just pure redundancy at best, but what we've got, is just a criminal enterprise masquerading as an authoritative law writing entity.

I'm not buying that one at all. cheeky

Now, they are writing laws to fulfill their prime function. Their own survival. It's out and out political law to sanction stealing and controls. This is Maybury's Roman law in action.

The founders talked about how laws, and even the constitution could be revisited and their meaning begins to erode over time once people forget from where they came from. So yes, the moment a law is written down, it begins to loose it's potency until people remember that a law is meant to reflect higher principles. It is why I said there is only one commandment and all laws flow from that one. 8 of the commandments are negative. Why? Because human beings during the time of Moses weren't enlightened. They need rules and direction. The mob needed to be controlled. 

We've had this discussion before on the nature of man. You are WAAAY more optimistic about the nature of man than I. Man is filled with vices and passions of the mind. Most men could give a shit about what we are discussing here. And something in my head tells me even those who are here. We rather find the evil ones and talk about them all day rather than the principles we need to remember to get this pony back on the track. And yet, the right doesn't seem to entertain these idea's any more than the left. 

Ya gotta keep the mob in check. The mob is looking to self implode itself doing the things they think is best. And so back to the original idea that began this conversation. That's what Adams is ascerting. Is it abandoning natural law. HOw can you give people the God given rights when they are busy usurping them themselves? And creating actions that are hurtful to the whole, the Union?

I end by quoting/paraphrasing George Carlin when he says, year after year it's the samething. Garbage in and Garbage out. Maybe, it's not the politicians that suck. Maybe it's something elese. The people who vote for them. I can't wait for the next election to see what tricks will be used to secure the loyalty of the population during a declining cycle. I guarantee you. Consisder this a prediction. They will drink the poison. 

Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 8:37am
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It's Deja Vu All Over

It's Deja Vu All Over Again

10/8/2017

Picture

By Liberty Report Staff

H.L. Mencken observed very astutely:

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

While reading through an old piece from Patrick Buchanan from April 2, 2010, one finds the following:

"Diplomacy has failed," Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., told AIPAC, "Iran is on the verge of becoming nuclear and we cannot afford that."

"We have to contemplate the final option," said Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., "the use of force to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon."

War is a "terrible thing," said Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., but "sometimes it is better to go to war than to allow the Holocaust to develop a second time."

Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute, Neocon Central, writes, "The only questions remaining, one Washington politico tells me, are who starts it, and how it ends."

Think about today.

Replace Iran with North Korea.

It's the same script.

​Mencken was right....constant alarm.

The military-industrial-complex has Americans wrapped around its finger.

-------------------------------

However, reading Trump's tweets on N. Korea, I think he is trying to persuade Kim's generals to stage a coup.

Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 8:55am
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The Puerto Rican's Are Coming

https://www.thedailybeast.com/without-power-until-next-year-puerto-rican...

Chinese would have new hotels and temporary power in a week

Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 10:27am (Reply to #16412)
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O.K. G.L., my view!

Sure, everyone who reads the many posts are considering the views of others. It would not be likely that I would have ever met Mr. Fix in my lifetime "if" we had not read the many posts. What does he have in common with myself? LOTS! Same backgrounds, same RCC insanity, same schooling and both set free from man made religions. I have learned about his pathway to his freedom and I have shared mine. We both have our views of some things and they differ greatly. Has that "taught' us something from the forums? Only that we are still in our original positions. With health, we are in a continual re-education mode. Learn or die. If someone thinks drinking acid will cure a headache, that is not a position that I want to receive, a gain of "new' knowledge.

One could jump into your and Mr. Fix's current/lengthy discussion and it would never end. For me, it is all summed up in: "You need to love your neighbor as yourself". These issues are easy to deal with "if" we have the correct inner light. 

Mr. Fix and G.L. are leaving the pizza place , driving a 1966 GTO with tri-power. Fix is speeding as usual. An ambulance with lights flashing, is trying to get around the GTO. That inner voice says "love thy neighbor as thyself" and Fix pulls over. Later, he finds out that it was his daughter in the ambulance and the quick action of the hospital saved her life.

Often, there are views upon the many forums that need to be rejected. Who, today, wants more teaching from KWN or someone telling us to cash our our retirement accounts or mortgage our homes to buy PM.? That is what many have done in the past and they are broke and homeless. Therefore, one must "filter" their new education upon others concepts. We all do that or you two would be coming to my house every week for a prayer meeting! (That makes me smile greatly within). Jim

NW VIEW >>>1 Cor. 1:18
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 11:40am (Reply to #16412)
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Re GL

Good morning Green Lantern,

I think we might still have an issue with cause-and-effect here.

For example, when you say that laws lose their meaning when people forget where they came from, or forget the higher principles from which they evolve,

You are making an assumption that these principles were ever widely known in the first place.

They were not.

These principles were occulted many, many thousands of years ago, because they destroy the underpinnings of governments, banking and religions.

The founders drew on their teachings through the Freemasons, but it seems only they knew where their own founding principles were actually derived from.

Then people were taught erroneously that these were Judeo-Christian values. Any closer examination of these principles clearly points to a deception.

So in this case, no one in the general population actually forgot anything, because you can't forget what you've never been taught.

Withholding the underlying principles, and their source from a population isn't just an oversight, in my opinion it has been a highly coordinated and orchestrated deception.

It goes to the same reasons why all knowledge of humanities ancient history has been suppressed. 

So in our modern day, or at any time since the 10 Commandments, which I agree, have been written in the negative starting with "do not”, immediately brings to focus in a human mind exactly the things any civil society would wish to avoid. Even if you have just a superficial knowledge of the laws of attraction, and how they actually work, you know you always need to state your intentions in a positive, and what it is you actually do want, and that is what will manifest.

Ironically, as you know, if you focus on exactly what it is you do not want, that is also exactly what you will get.

The only commandments that are actually stated in the affirmative, are the ones demanding subservience to the imaginary sky daddy.

What you wind up with, is a large population subservient to authority, with no moral code. 

Exactly as intended.

Then you place in the consciousness as an alternative, "Natural law," and bring out out the bullshit by Charles Darwin. "Survival of the fittest”.

Then you wind up with people like Ata who think they know something about natural laws, and because they think they already know what it's all about, never actually look into it. This just guarantees perpetual ignorance.

You say that these laws are now written for the protection and survival of the government, which is true, but that started almost immediately after the Constitutional convention, when every new law or policy contradicted the very principles that this country was founded upon.

In other words, screw human liberty, we need to protect the government.

I completely disagree with this statement of yours, “ Human beings during the time of Moses weren't enlightened. They need rules and direction. The mob needed to be controlled.”

You're following a biblical narrative that is nothing but bullshit, and contradicts what was taught in ancient cultures, that the religionists describe as paganism.

These ancient cultures were based on hermetic / natural laws, and these civilizations prospered for thousands of years.

It was the introduction of these Judeo-Christian rules and regulations invented to prop up a hierarchical religious organization, while simultaneously destroying civilizations. You bought the lie.

The 10 Commandments were not written in the way that they were to promote a civil society, they were written to weaponize a segment of society against the rest of it.

Now you ask a great question, with an inherent false premise:

"How can you give people the God given rights when they are busy usurping them themselves? And creating actions that are hurtful to the whole, the Union?”

You equate "The whole of society", with "the union”. Am I to assume from that that you have placed a higher value on a collectivized man-made hierarchical structure then basic human liberty? 

Governments don't just suddenly start writing laws to protect the government from a bunch of malcontents, governments only write laws that support the government, and then convince people who don't know any better, that this is somehow important, or necessary.

Every hierarchy functions solely for the purpose of maintaining the hierarchy. You will find this phenomenon in government, religion, industry, and any time hierarchy has been used as the building blocks of any organization.

It didn't start with Moses, there's plenty of evidence of this malevolent ideology that predates the Bible, but the Bible itself only repeats narratives that had been written down thousands of years previously.

Review that video that's Silver 66 posted yesterday.

I assert again, the biblical narrative is merely a recipe for human enslavement.

This is also what happens when you place values before principles, because human beings now seem to value their enslavement, and the very organizations that maintain it.

Through eons of indoctrination, combined with abject ignorance and inability for critical thinking, the notion that these hierarchical constructs are important, or somehow worth saving, is the very thing that perpetuates human enslavement.

You said yourself yesterday, "natural laws are etched into the human heart”, and then you tell me that I'm the one whose opinion of humanity is overinflated.

Without constant indoctrination, people DO have the inherent capacity to figure these things out, but are intentionally kept too busy, and too diverted to actually be able to take the time. CNN is hanging on the wall in just about every public gathering, just like George Orwell's 1984, pounding people with false notions 24/7 

A legally mandated 12 year stint in a Government or religious sponsored indoctrination center designed to destroy critical thinking is the only thing that justifies your much lower opinion of humanity than mine. Human beings aren't naturally so moronic, they've been intentionally engineered to be that way.

So you seem to think it's important to "save the union”. I think it's important to destroy it, and set human beings free.

Of course, this might result in anarchy, which we seem to have been taught is synonymous with “chaos", when in actuality, it's the rulers that we are trying to prop up causing all the chaos.

You and I know that anarchy simply means "no rulers”, but the widespread alternative definition which has literally no origins other than the propagandists, has taught humanity to fear a society without rulers.

And then this moronic and dumbed down Society props up the very thing that is destroying them.

When you make "individual liberty" a first principle, and maintain that as a first principle,

 a lot of your arguments simply fall apart.

If you're going to defend human liberty, stop defending hierarchical constructs such as unions. You literally can't have it both ways.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 12:06pm (Reply to #16415)
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NW VIEW wrote: One could jump

NW VIEW wrote:

One could jump into your and Mr. Fix's current/lengthy discussion and it would never end. For me, it is all summed up in: "You need to love your neighbor as yourself". These issues are easy to deal with "if" we have the correct inner light. 

Well, it doesn't end. Because every political decisions, newstory is either in accordance with these principles or it is not. And if it were so intuitive, the masses would have got it, the enlightened among us would have gotten, and we wouldn't be in this situation.

I'd agree with you at it's essence that is what we are dealing with.

At it’s essence, you are correct. But to only study the seed, and not not the entire tree with it’s roots, bark, branches and leaves leaves too much room for guess work.

The first judges in this country were Christian clergy who had a firm grasp of natural law and they were responsible for building our common law tradition. Yet so many today, don't have an idea of this history. 

Beyond love your neighbor, they were versed in English natural law, Irish common law, all which came before it. They understood precedence and they understood the need to render decisions without prejudice independent of their own believes. Firmly rooted. Squatters rights, how to deal with a fender bender between two horse carriages, and all forms of complex torte law and criminal have nuisances.

People differ in their conception and practice of this principle. To eave such a vast area of human behavior and reduce it to, all you need to do is love your neighbor while it might be correct, leaves too much room for lawlessness. 

My examples, Ambulance etc… were ordinary everyday examples that good people would know how to act around. But when we get into decisive political issues, I see no indication that people retain that seed thought. It becomes necessary to look at established principles. 

Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 12:09pm
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Fix,  Later I leave you with

Fix, Later

I leave you with this thought. 

"More American's were killed in Las Vegas than have been killed by radical Islam in the last ten years"

Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 12:53pm (Reply to #16415)
Mr. Fix
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Jim, a true story...

Last year,

My wife and I went to visit our daughter at her college, and when I got off the right highway exit after traveling all day long,

I stopped at a traffic light.

While sitting at the traffic light, I witnessed a car that looked a lot like my daughters fly through the intersection at an incredibly excessive rate of speed. Then I noticed something peculiar. There was a red bandanna tied to the roof rack flopping in the breeze. Holy shit! It was my daughter. She had tied that red bandanna to the rack months before, so she could find her particular Subaru Outback in parking lots, because it looks like so many others.

So instead of turning right, to proceed to her college, I turned left, and gave chase. 

My wife was mildly concerned as our speeds were at least double the posted speed limit.

Passing slower traffic by using medians, the wrong lanes,, sidewalks, or grass, was also mildly disconcerting.

She wasn't slowing down for anything, or anyone, and maintaining pursuit was maxing out the capabilities of my old car.

My first clue of what was up, was when she turned at a sign that had a big H, and an arrow pointing the way to a hospital.

Within minutes, we arrived at the emergency room entrance, and I jumped out of the car to find her roommate, battered and bloodied across the backseat. As the story goes, she fell off a skateboard, as blood was pouring from her leg where her kneecap used to be. 

My daughter didn't call an ambulance when her friend sustained injuries, she ran to her car, brought the car to her friend, packed a shirt around the wound that was spitting out so much blood, and then rushed to the hospital at the highest possible rate of speed. 

Even she knows that motor vehicle laws are just a bunch of bullshit in an emergency.

I ran into the lobby and grabbed a wheelchair, and got her friend out of the car, and into the chair.

She was under a doctors care as quickly as humanly possible.

People who have been raised to do the right thing, do the right thing.

People who have been taught to follow the law, would call an ambulance, and watch the blood gushing out of their friend while they patiently waited.

No ambulances, no goofy signs saying that there's someone bleeding inside, just focused actions to achieve a necessary goal.

True story,

My daughter simply doesn't value the things most people do.

And I am damn proud of her.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
Mon, Oct 9, 2017 - 2:39pm (Reply to #16418)
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Take your time Green Lantern,

But since I know you're interested, there's a nice story from Dave Hodges explaining the latest evidence to come out of Las Vegas.

I consider it some pretty decent investigative journalism.

https://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/10/09/the-world-of-lee-harvey-paddock-reveals-what-happened-and-whats-coming/

As far as the thought you left me with,

governments have killed many multiples more than anything else throughout all of recorded history.

Click the link, for the support of that assertion.

It's just your tax dollars hard at work.

Dave Hodges actually does care, and does some pretty decent work, but he has two very serious blind spots right now.

1. He believes Donald Trump is here to save us

2. He believes Biblical prophecy is the word of God.

Once you know a journalists blind spots, you can use his information to form your own conclusions.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

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