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Why the AR-15?

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Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 3:47pm (Reply to #14)
Baxter Bentley
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What about the '74?

Kegfreak wrote:

I've been known to collect a gun or two and here is what it comes down to between a AR-15/M4, or an AK.

How accurate do you want it to be?.....winner AR-15.

A quality AK-74 is about as accurate as any AR, for half the price.

Quote:
The Ar isn't a great hunting rifle, but it will put a hole in a deer at 500 meters good enough. The AK is ok up to 200 meters then drops off the map. If you are buying a rifle for teotwawki, the AK will get the job done, but if you want a bit more utility from the rifle, the AR is the way to go.

A quality AK-74 (Russian or Bulgarian) beats any AR in nearly every category except availability of ammunition, and that's easily solved by stocking up on a few 1080rd spam cans in 5.45x39.

Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 10:10pm (Reply to #99)
Seithen
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AMMO

ColonelCooper wrote:

AT SETHEN: 

"But you cannot fire 5.56 NATO through a .223 chambered firearm like the Mini-14."

WRONG. These rifles are stamped .223, as they are a civilian marketed firearm. HOWEVER, right in the Ruger manual it states that you can fire 5.56. This is a common mistake and has been batted around in Ruger forums since the dawn of time. I own several Minis, have several manuals, and have fired 10's of thousands of rounds of 5.56 through them.

EDIT:

As stated by many others here: The ONLY Mini not able to shoot 5.56 is the Target. There are a MINISCULE amount of them out there, compared to the forty years of Mini's in production. Just let it go, you got this one wrong.

With all due respect CC. I was only bringing up an important fact for someone new to the .223 world. When you go in to purchase said firearm, whether it is an AR, Mini, bolt or any other on the theme, that the weapon must be CHAMBERED 5.56mm in order to use 5.56 NATO and there are AR's, Mini's, bolts and other variants of the .223 that will NOT fire 5.56mm. I know that Mini-14 can fire 5.56 and have stated so many times up above. I didn't want this to devolve into a Mini-14 debate and the differences between Ranch and Sporters. I know that debate and it has NOTHING to do with the advice I am trying to convey. To make your life easier it is a good idea to pick up the firearms chambered for 5.56 NATO since they feed both types of ammo. Yes the Mini-14 Ranch says .223 on the rifle but it is chambered 5.56 NATO and can fire them while the Mini-14 sporter targets cannot but that is what my whole point is about. It's important to know the difference of the ammo and what works and what doesn't. I know that I am not wrong on that point.

Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 10:14pm (Reply to #102)
UGrev
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Someone hasn't seen the newer

Someone hasn't seen the newer AR's coming out. 

Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - 12:28am (Reply to #104)
Baxter Bentley
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The 5.45x39 AR?

UGrev wrote:

Someone hasn't seen the newer AR's coming out. 

You mean the 5.45x39 ARs? What's the point? Why not just get the more reliable, tougher, and less expensive AK-74? It's not unpatriotic to favor the AK platform over the AR -- it's simply a better gun.

Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 8:22am (Reply to #105)
UGrev
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grrr. I had a whole post

grrr. I had a whole post typed out in reply and the system bumped me back two pages when I backspaced.. so I'll make it short because I don't feel like typing it all again and I have to get to work. 

Newer AR platforms don't follow the historic rhetoric of "unreliability". 

Different guns for different runs... but notice how I didn't say anything negative against the AK? 

I'd pick my M1A over the AK OR my AR-15 however. 

Anyway, I don't think the AK is "simply a better gun". I think it's a situational issue where the AK and AR perform in different environments.

But do we really need to rehash this argument ? I could go on 100 other forums and re-read this thread. 

Either way, enjoy your range time :)

[edit]

nice! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-VX4M_jgSk

Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 1:14pm (Reply to #106)
Baxter Bentley
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UGrev wrote: grrr. I had a

UGrev wrote:

grrr. I had a whole post typed out in reply and the system bumped me back two pages when I backspaced.. so I'll make it short because I don't feel like typing it all again and I have to get to work.

That happened to me after my mammoth reply in another thread. Lets just say I was less than pleased -- you have my condolences. 

Quote:
Newer AR platforms don't follow the historic rhetoric of "unreliability".

True, but none can ever be as reliable as an AK-platform rifle. Bury an AK in the mud for a week w/ a round chambered, pull it out and it's going to fire/cycle when the trigger is pulled. Show me an AR-platform rifle that does that and I'll reconsider my position.

Quote:
Different guns for different runs... but notice how I didn't say anything negative against the AK?

AK-47 accuracy, recoil, effective range, and weight of ammunition, all leave much to be desired -- these are the areas where the AR-platform rifles have a clear advantage over AK-47s. Let me be clear: I'd choose an AR-platform rifle over an AK-47. 

Quote:
Anyway, I don't think the AK is "simply a better gun". I think it's a situational issue where the AK and AR perform in different environments.

I agree when we're comparing ARs to '47s, and in most cases I think the AR is generally more useful, but in comparing to '74s I think the '74 is the clear winner. It's my opinion, sure, but I've trained on all three of these and in comparing each rifle I believe that the '74 is superior, with the AR in a close second (AK-47 is a distant third).

Quote:
But do we really need to rehash this argument ? I could go on 100 other forums and re-read this thread.

No, we don't. I just get a little annoyed when people forget that the AK-74 exists...

Quote:
Either way, enjoy your range time :)

Thanks! You too.

Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 5:15pm
Ciga Exbroker
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Why the AR15

I'll stick with my Ak 47,Ak 74, and my FNFAL.... my pal for two leg"d game.yessurprise

Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 6:21pm (Reply to #108)
Baxter Bentley
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Ciga Exbroker wrote: I'll

Ciga Exbroker wrote:

I'll stick with my Ak 47,Ak 74, and my FNFAL.... my pal for two leg"d game.yessurprise

What build is your '74, if you don't mind my asking?

Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 6:54pm (Reply to #107)
UGrev
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ok, this is not in mud for a

ok, this is not in mud for a week.. but it does add points to the AR. 

AR vs. AK dirt/dust test torture AR15 15 AK47 47
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 7:25pm (Reply to #108)
Biscuit
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Ciga Exbroker wrote: I'll

Ciga Exbroker wrote:

I'll stick with my Ak 47,Ak 74, and my FNFAL.... my pal for two leg"d game.yessurprise

+1 for the FNFAL. All of the reliability of an AK and the power of the M1A. (There may be times when shooting through things is very desirable.)
Thu, Jun 23, 2011 - 7:59pm (Reply to #110)
Eman Laer
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UGrev wrote: ok, this is not

UGrev wrote:

ok, this is not in mud for a week.. but it does add points to the AR. 

AR vs. AK dirt/dust test torture AR15 15 AK47 47
I swing trade by the seat of my pants, but I do make a little profit somehow. Any comments I make about my trades should be taken with a grain of salt, and maybe as a contrarian indicator.
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 - 6:04am (Reply to #112)
UGrev
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Umm. checked youtube lately?

Umm. checked youtube lately? I could fill this page with videos like this.. but I was trying not to be a rude and obnoxious asshole..

Fri, Jun 24, 2011 - 8:35am (Reply to #113)
Eman Laer
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Youtube is not a great resource

UGrev wrote:

Umm. checked youtube lately? I could fill this page with videos like this.. but I was trying not to be a rude and obnoxious asshole..

I guess you take a risk anytime you promote your favorite rifle over someone else's favorite. (I don't own either.)

All rifles jam, the video you posted does not give a balanced perspective IMO. 

I swing trade by the seat of my pants, but I do make a little profit somehow. Any comments I make about my trades should be taken with a grain of salt, and maybe as a contrarian indicator.
Fri, Jun 24, 2011 - 10:39am (Reply to #114)
Mike7.62
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Useless comparisons

Boy, this is sounding like the pages of "Guns and Ammo". I can recall many, many, articles on which is better, AR vs. AK, .45 vs. 9mm, .30-06 vs. .270, 1911 vs. Glock. My advice, just choose one, learn its strengths and weaknesses, learn to use it proficiently and be happy. Just sayin'.

Fri, Jun 24, 2011 - 12:35pm
Mr. Picklepants
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My brother several AR's. They

My brother several AR's. They cost him a couple thousand dollars.

I have one SAIGA AK variant that shoots .223/5.56. Cost me 300 dollars.

After handling both, the difference in price is far more than anything else. Except I have more ammo because I had more money for it. Here in my part of georgia, I can throw rocks in all directions and hit trees, hills, or something. The MOA at over 200 yards doesn't amount for much in any fight here.

Terrain should be a major factor. Out west, nothing but flat land, I'd want .308. Here is some places, you could get away with a 22 mag or 22lr, and be effective for everything. Hell, and shotgun would be effective in my neighborhood. If I can hit you with a rock, I can hit you with it.

Fri, Jun 24, 2011 - 2:40pm (Reply to #114)
UGrev
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Not promoting anything.. just

Not promoting anything.. just trying even the information field a little. Many are still operating on older, outdated information. 

Fri, Jun 24, 2011 - 10:09pm
Poor Boy
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Ok, there's been a lot of

Ok, there's been a lot of discussion of best this and best that. AR vs AK vs other choices. There is one reality, There are different opinions for a variety of reasons. Hopefully, some folks have received information to help them made a better informed decision.

There has been some debate regarding the 5.56 NATO and the Remington .223 cartridge. Most people that are experienced reloaders understand the differences. But few shooters understand the difference and the danger. If your firearm is marked 5.56 NATO you should be able to shoot either safely. If your firearm is marked .223 or .223 Rem it would be very unwise to shoot military surplus ammunition. 

1. Do not assume that if it fits in the chamber, it's ok to use.

2. If the manufacturer says Don't Do it, you probably should heed their warning.

3. Finally, You are ultimately responsible for your choices and actions.

see this link for a more thorough explanation:

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=316

Remember the risk is yours and a bad decision might break your toy, and hurt you or an innocent bystander. If you are shooting ammo that is over pressure for your firearm it may work fine until it breaks. Be careful.

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