Of Revolution and Revolutionaries

854
173
Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 11:29am

Thanks, everyone, for the "day off" yesterday. I needed to step away and clear my head. A little fresh air always helps the cause. It's Friday. I'm back. And there are a few things we need to discuss.

First of all, the markets in general. I can't find a single one I like. The "dots" of impending collapse are everywhere. The challenge is to try to connect them...or at least connect them in a reasonably accurate manner that allows you to move with confidence. In the end, though the global central banks seem to have unlimited fiat with which to prop them up, worldwide equity markets look as if they are perilously close to outright collapse. And don't ever forget the ultimate, short-term benefit that would befall the U.S. should this occur, first eloquently brought to our attention by the great Tyler Durden nearly two years ago:

https://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3739425

As this pertains to the PMs, traders should exercise supreme caution here. As you can see on the charts below, a breakdown today could foreshadow even more weakness next week. As I mentioned Wednesday evening, given the unprecedented level of C/C/C manipulation we've seen, I doubt they're done. Lots of moving averages out there that might provide support levels but I'm sticking with my ruler and sharpie and they continue to show possible bottoms near $24 and $1480. Again, if you must trade, please be cautious.

Lastly, I've noticed that, nearly every day, discussion increases here regarding the ongoing protests in New York. Many here are very passionate about the dangerous and tenuous position in which the current system of crony capitalism and banker oligarchy has left us. Fine. Me, too. However, I do not feel that Marxism and Marxism-lite (socialism) is the answer.

Perhaps one or two of our NY-based turdites could venture down toward lower Manhattan tomorrow to ask a few questions of these peace-loving youths so many seem to idolize. Let's start with:

1) What is the Federal Reserve, what is it's function, when was it created and what policy are they currently following that is so ruinous to the life savings and purchasing power of the average citizen?

2) What is a Credit Default Swap and what role did it play in the 2008 financial crisis?

3) In hindsight the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 was not a very good idea. What was the Glass-Steagall Act and why was it important?

4) Going forward, which type of leader do you prefer? George Washington or Vladimir Lenin? Martin Luther King or Che Guevara?

I'm not going to wait for the answers. Why should I when I already have evidence like this:

Cornel West's Closing Remarks at Speach at Liberty Plaza in NYC

Is this an intelligent, thoughtful group which seeks reform within the current capitalist system that has defined America for 235 years OR is this simply a group of mind-numbed, "useful idiots" blindly repeating the mantras of a marxist revolutionary? You decide.

Clearly, in managing the situation, some police officers have over-reacted. This is always disheartening. Given the mayhem that has accompanied similar anti-capitalism "protests" in cities such as Seattle and Toronto, it would seem that the NYPD is not looking to be overly-friendly. This does not mean, however, that our mantra is "F the Police". If you think that the police are the enemy, then I must ask you two questions:

1) The next time you are in trouble....from a home invasion, a simple assault or a car accident...who will you call? Maybe you can take of yourself just fine but who will your spouse call if you're not around? How about your daughter? How about your mother? Who will they call?

2) And how did you feel about the police on 9/12/01? Were you proud of them or did you go around yelling "F the police"? Then ask yourself: What has changed? Have the police changed or have I changed? Your honest answer to that question needs to be considered.

Ok, time to conclude this post. Please understand, I know that the current system is unsustainable and must be changed. I am not, however, throwing in my lot with this first batch of "protesters". Marxist revolutions only lead to tyranny and mass graves and I won't be a party to it. Instead, we need a revolution of personal freedom and responsibility. We must reclaim representative democracy and free enterprise. When that movement finally takes to the streets, count me in. To that movement only, I will happily pledge my life, my fortune and my sacred honor. TF

p.s. Given the "controversial" nature of this post, the comments sections will be closely monitored. All views and opinions are welcome but anyone not observing TurdWorld Rule #1 (treat others the way you want to be treated) will likely see their comments deleted. We need more peace and less hate in this world and I will not allow this site to promote anger and hostility. We are all on the same team here and we need to work together if we are going to survive the turbulence ahead.

About the Author

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  854 Comments

CreditCrumbs jlee2027
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:27am

The protest video

I love it when one guy snatched the police officer's hat and threw it away.


Oct 2, 2011 - 11:31am

The protest problem

It is so frustrating to see some of the signs - Fuck the Fed - while I totally share the sentiment, I do not want to smash the windows. And I do not want to stand next to the ones who do. I think it is possible to effect peaceful change still - at least I hope so. We have a long history of the rule of law and while the police forces are out of hand so too are the protesters. So those who complain of armchair warriors unwilling to engage the youth in constructive dialogue, I ask: are you going to storm the Fed with these guys? I don't know what the answer is - but the people arrested in Brooklyn were treated terribly and the police acted like the Quebec Securite but the potential for violence and destruction of public property is real and it leads nowhere. The bad apples in these crowds, whether random people or big union organizers or cranky right-wing whomevers or the over-hyped police, make it impossible for the rest of us to use that kind of venue for protest. And I am not an armchair warrior - I think they are going about things the wrong way, and ignorance is no excuse and never has been for bad behaviour - for both the police and protesters. But I will be joining neither. I will be buying the dip - and did.

vamoose1 Stephanie C
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:33am

@stephanie

I totally agree, this thing started out ridiculous really, but my point, like yours, was that it could have legs. How in the world could you go from a few whack jobs in a downtown park to Susan Sarandon and 700 arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge, and suddenly have sympatico organizations springing up in several (and probably soon to be many) American cities.

Thats downright startling, and later this week some very large Unions are going to join in. Thats mainstream stuff.

I think its telling us something.

America is boiling mad, they are wildly furious, whether they are students with a 45 thousand dollar student loan and no job, or an unemployed person who just got evicted. Its coast to coast rage, and did Wall St have plenty to do with it? They were certainly not alone, (think those mortgage originators) but they most certainly did. And evidently walked.

The real (Shadowstats) Unemployment rate, counted properly is about 23 percent, there are close to 50 million Americans on food stamps , holy jesus, in the ostensibly richest country in the world? Wow.

One in 4 American children is on food stamps. Say again?

This makes for a lot of very angry people, so, this bears watching.

Haole agrock
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:35am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

Protester "lured" onto bridge, trapped and descended upon by Jamie's thugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RzkTfvvsDDo#

US Protests: 'People aware Wall Street is real enemy'
eyeswideopen
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:37am

Disappointing

Amazing how so many here attempt to define the motives of those who rail against the same entities we protest against daily from the comfort of our own homes. The fact is, these "rabblerousers" have gained the attention of the world... A goal we have yet to attain, even as we plead with our officials to address the criminal behavior taking place in our world of metal.

Rather than subject myself to attack as others here have, I'll simply stop.

Many of you give these criminals the ammunition they need to defeat you.

Divide and conquer.

Las Vegas Dave
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:41am

Occupy wall streeters are scum of the earth

how long before they come to your home to steal your silver and gold?

Why wouldnt they? You're rich and obviously obtained your stack by lying and stealing from the working man.

Bankers and pols who oversaw the creation of the wall street weapons of financial destruction and lied to cover their tracks should be jailed. But I wont throw my lot in with a bunch of eco anarchist deadbeats who dont want to pay off their debts. fuck them and a pox on their houses (if they own one.)


Oct 2, 2011 - 11:42am
Haole
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:45am
question
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:50am

WOW and WOW Again

Don't know if it's 25,000 or 2,500 reads of this site but either way many have been exposed to an incredible dialog and exchange of ideas. What a crew we have here!

The potential for the protests to be manipulated are very real. It scares me how a little violence, however started, would fall right into line with escalating homeland (fatherland) security's power grab. Tighter and tighter grows the noose.

A nonviolent movement that removes our cooperation with the polluted system; starve the beast. I think there are more than a few here that are doing just that in one way or another. About all I can do at this time is try and keep my tax payment as low as possible. Whatever.

A little multiplied by a lot can make a difference? Starve the cancer that has taken over the body politic. Gandhi's way swayed an empire; a new twist of that process might be able to stop the EE.

Wish I know what it was. I'll keep dreaming.

Peace


Oct 2, 2011 - 11:52am

Las vegas Dave

I see my plea to speak plainly has been more than answered. Many, if not most, of the protesters are no doubt well-meaning and some are well-informed. But there are scum amongst them and they will try to steal our stuff - so I agree with the dislike of the agents of violence who prevent peaceful protest, but not the tarring all with the same brush. But I also will not stand behind anarchists like some opportunist hoping to profit from their violence, so I cannot cheer on the violence. But I do hope anger can be channeled into a dismantling of the Federal Reserve, a dismantling of fractional reserve banking and a return to sound currencies based on a gold standard (I think) and only debt-free gov't issued notes, not into smashing office buildings and demanding workers' rights.

Lumpy
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:55am

Looks like the civil disobedience trend line just broke out!

Would you buy or sell the PM's here?

What's the 1% going to do? Short bank stocks and BUY the PM's.

Then head for the hills.


Oct 2, 2011 - 11:55am

And yes, question is right

Starve the beast. Protect your assets. Help your neighbour.

Bake a pie.

cpnscarlet
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:02pm

Ron Paul and Al-Awlaki

I would like to relate to you a "OMG" moment I had yesterday. After hearing that Anwar Al-Awlaki had been killed in a US attack in Yemen, I thought to myself, "How long before someone says in the press that we had no right to kill him and he should have been brought back to the US for trial?" And of course I thought that person would be some radical leftist or denizen of the ACLU. Well, I was absolutely floored when the first person to stand up and say it was Ron Paul. I wasn't surprised philosophically, but certainly surprised in the completely politically naive way he did. He will now be trounced on across the political spectrum. Stick a fork in him, he's done. Paul has shown no ability to keep his mouth shut at an appropriate time. For all his good ideas and libertarian views, his tactics stink because he is continually shooting himself in the foot. Of course, there needs to be a discourse about the US killing an American-born person overseas, but Paul's method just cost him the election for good.

We definitely need to have a debate, if not a trial about this kill. Al-Awlaki was born here in my state of New Mexico under common circumstances with parents here at a US school. Technically (and only technically), he has US citizenship and therefore has Constitutional protections. And because of that, a bad precedent may have been set. If I was President, I would ask for a trial or a Supreme Court ruling on the matter immediately even if I had to be the one on trial (but only after he was room temperature). My argument would be simple - Al-Awlaki through his words and actions (especially being on the soil of a foreign country on the US "watch list") had effectively renounced his US citizenship and therefore due process was not required. Would this be a dangerous legal precedent? Not IMHO. Of course it could be abused, but all laws (case law especially) can be abused by wicked men; so it's no different from the usual legal struggles in our society.

If Ron Paul had brought up this matter as a "we really should have a Federal judicial decision about that before we do it again", he would have been seen as a reasoned statesman instead of a "libertarian nut". Not that I would use that term, but I think right now 80% of Americans would and I wouldn't have a good footing to argue with them.

I hate having to exercise political savvy to make philosophical points. But in a country where the vast majority of people never think about philosophy or know about Aristotelian logic, political savvy is one of your few tools. Kiss Dr. Paul good-bye now.

Bobbejaan
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:03pm

... And Now For Something Completely Different

... Here's a view from t'other side of the pond (brought to you by The Ministry of Funny Walks ) :-

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/25/occupy-w...

.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/sep/21/occupy-wall-street-pro...

.

"When the history is finally written, though, it's likely all of this tumult – beginning with the Arab Spring – will be remembered as the opening salvo in a wave of negotiations over the dissolution of the American Empire. Thirty years of relentless prioritising of propaganda over substance, and snuffing out anything that might look like a political basis for opposition, might make the prospects for the young protesters look bleak; and it's clear that the rich are determined to seize as large a share of the spoils as remain, tossing a whole generation of young people to the wolves in order to do so. But history is not on their side.

We might do well to consider the collapse of the European colonial empires. It certainly did not lead to the rich successfully grabbing all the cookies, but to the creation of the modern welfare state. We don't know precisely what will come out of this round. But if the occupiers finally manage to break the 30-year stranglehold that has been placed on the human imagination, as in those first weeks after September 2008, everything will once again be on the table – and the occupiers of Wall Street and other cities around the US will have done us the greatest favour anyone possibly can."

CreditCrumbs
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:05pm

@eyeswideopen and haole

Exactly. People cast their judgment too quickly on the protesters.

Communists? The protesters' slogan is "People over Profit" and not "People without Profit". They protest at Wall Street, the Fed and bank buildings, not in front of small businesses or corporate headquarters. Any slogan of nationalizing all private assets? I don't see any.

Come on, readers. We are so far away on the Communist - Fascist scale tilted toward Fascism and we are afraid of turning to communism overnight. Give me a break.

Those who label protesters as communists, please go to these protests, talk with the protesters, and report back with your first-hand findings. Without first hand accounts, your labeling is not credible.

cpnscarlet yangster
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:12pm

@yangster, others - the very

@yangster, others - the very important question of how a Christian can support drastic war tactics is addressed in the 9/11 thread in the Fight Club Forum. See you there.


Oct 2, 2011 - 12:20pm

Communists, why no of course not

So I go to the home page for Occupy Wall Street and the first thing I see, literally, is a raised fist! and the words 'Occupy' and 'resistance' .... Come on people this stuff is right front and centre. That doesn't mean there aren't many protesters who don't subscribe to this tired marxist cant, but the protests are being manipulated - by the police too, yes, but by the tireless hard left. My god, we really are frogs in a pot - and it isn't paranoia to find evil intent on the left while fearing the march of fascism from both left and right.
jackinrichmond
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:28pm

protests

i detest anarchy, but i have a sense that the protestors we see doing the dirty work are an important part of a global awakening. yes, many of them have no clue what the underlying principles may or may not be, but at least they have the courage to get off their asses and take action against fraud, poverty and oppression. there comes a time when peaceful online discussions need to materialize into active protest. we are clearly at that point. i urge you all to consider this phase of the revolution to be necessary. the participants may (or may not) fully understand the details of the geopolitical and financial policies that have led to this point and you (and i) may not agree with their political views but hopefully their actions will force change. the system has become corrupt and must be purged. governments are elected to represent the people, not the banksters.

letters to commissioners and regulators have had no effect, so this is what happens next.. it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

RuNuts
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:30pm

Arrested Protesters Led Onto Bridge By NYPD

Prior to being arrested for being on the bridge. /It's a trap.

#OWS Protesters March On The Brooklyn Bridge 700+ Arrested 10-1-11
Strongsidejedi vamoose1
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:35pm

@vamoose

Thanks for your posting messages.

They are brief and strong and to the point.

Eric Original
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:36pm

pastry crust

Xty,

It's my honest and firm opinion that it has to be lard, or just skip the whole idea.

Love that video you posted. A big favorite of mine. It is also a big favorite of ScottJ and BagOfGold. I first saw it from them. Appeals to all faiths, or lack thereof's.

cpnscarlet zilverreiger
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:37pm

@zilver - thanks for a

@zilver - thanks for a statement that gets me in on this. There is NO happy middle between the economic right and left - that is a false utopian dream or a state sought by those who don't like conflict. Right is Right and Left is Left and one of them is WRONG.

Capitalism is not mentioned in any of the founding documents. It is not a political system. Capitalism is the natural outcome of a free people engaging in productivity and commerce. In an unfettered setting, it is as natural as breathing and eating. Socialism, Communism, any type of Collectivism (thank you rowdyboy), is a result of a system of economics enforced on a population. And that's why economic conservatives (capitalists, for lack of a better word) are right and collectivists ("commies" is a word fine by me) are wrong. Dead wrong.

One is freedom, the other is tyranny. No middle ground for compromise, save laws that maintain the right to property.

question
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:37pm

Fear

Fear both the left and the right extremes; fanatics and those pushing agendas are "world improvers". I fear them most of all.

Anarchy=self rule

Live and let live, be nice, Golden Rule and all that. 2000 years and counting .Never give up, never give up, never give up the ship.

And as Xty says......bake a pie. Yum

CreditCrumbs George Clooney
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:40pm

@Xty, Re: Raised fist

Your raised fist allegation is not credible. The raised fist is different than one used for Marxist movement. Marxist's raised fist has the palm facing forward. This raised fist has the palm facing sideways. Subtle but possibly major difference.

Why don't you email occupywallstreet.org to ask the rationale for the logo? Then report back to us with your finding.

Symbols of Marxism:

vs. occupywallstreet.org:

zilverreiger
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:48pm

cpnscarlet

in the real world you would be killed pretty quickly with your extremist opinions.

You're trapped in the left right thinking, don't give them this power over your brain.

CYM question
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:50pm

All of these "isms" you guys

All of these "isms" you guys are talking about are another "ism" - Anachronisms:

a·nach·ro·nismNoun/əˈnakrəˌnizəm/

1. A thing belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists, esp. a thing that is conspicuously old-fashioned. The world is going through an irreversible energy withdrawal and a new paradigm will emerge as a result. All of the old types of gov't and economics are going to be tossed into the dustbin of history where they belong. The end game is localization of governance and economics; and that means some type of Libertarianism. That's not to say that desperate governments won't try to institute one of the other "isms", but they will fail miserably.
Eric Original
Oct 2, 2011 - 12:59pm
cpnscarlet zilverreiger
Oct 2, 2011 - 1:01pm

@zilver  - Do you mean

@zilver - Do you mean "extremist" views in general, or my thoughts about "left" and "right" economics? My views on economics are based not so much on left/right thinking, but right/wrong absolutes. There is an absolute morality even though trying to find it is sometimes like nailing Jello to the wall. Collectivism in all its forms is WRONG WRONG WRONG - immorally wrong. Capitalism is an extension of liberty, which is RIGHT RIGHT, a thousand times right.

And as far as being killed? Would you be one holding a stone, shielding me, or a patsy holding my cloak while your underlings do the dirty work? Just curious.

RuNuts
Oct 2, 2011 - 1:03pm
lostinspace
Oct 2, 2011 - 1:03pm

My Last post here. Just

My Last post here. Just wanted to apologize for losing my temper last night. Particularly sorry for getting angry with Stephanie. You didn't do anything wrong and don't deserve the way I treated you. I'm sorry.

To scarlet, I guess what made me so angry is that your opinion reminds me of my old line of thinking. I think about 9/11 everyday, and obviously feel very passionately about it. Snordelhans was right, it is the litmus test.

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