Of Revolution and Revolutionaries

Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 11:29am

Thanks, everyone, for the "day off" yesterday. I needed to step away and clear my head. A little fresh air always helps the cause. It's Friday. I'm back. And there are a few things we need to discuss.

First of all, the markets in general. I can't find a single one I like. The "dots" of impending collapse are everywhere. The challenge is to try to connect them...or at least connect them in a reasonably accurate manner that allows you to move with confidence. In the end, though the global central banks seem to have unlimited fiat with which to prop them up, worldwide equity markets look as if they are perilously close to outright collapse. And don't ever forget the ultimate, short-term benefit that would befall the U.S. should this occur, first eloquently brought to our attention by the great Tyler Durden nearly two years ago:


As this pertains to the PMs, traders should exercise supreme caution here. As you can see on the charts below, a breakdown today could foreshadow even more weakness next week. As I mentioned Wednesday evening, given the unprecedented level of C/C/C manipulation we've seen, I doubt they're done. Lots of moving averages out there that might provide support levels but I'm sticking with my ruler and sharpie and they continue to show possible bottoms near $24 and $1480. Again, if you must trade, please be cautious.

Lastly, I've noticed that, nearly every day, discussion increases here regarding the ongoing protests in New York. Many here are very passionate about the dangerous and tenuous position in which the current system of crony capitalism and banker oligarchy has left us. Fine. Me, too. However, I do not feel that Marxism and Marxism-lite (socialism) is the answer.

Perhaps one or two of our NY-based turdites could venture down toward lower Manhattan tomorrow to ask a few questions of these peace-loving youths so many seem to idolize. Let's start with:

1) What is the Federal Reserve, what is it's function, when was it created and what policy are they currently following that is so ruinous to the life savings and purchasing power of the average citizen?

2) What is a Credit Default Swap and what role did it play in the 2008 financial crisis?

3) In hindsight the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 was not a very good idea. What was the Glass-Steagall Act and why was it important?

4) Going forward, which type of leader do you prefer? George Washington or Vladimir Lenin? Martin Luther King or Che Guevara?

I'm not going to wait for the answers. Why should I when I already have evidence like this:

Cornel West's Closing Remarks at Speach at Liberty Plaza in NYC

Is this an intelligent, thoughtful group which seeks reform within the current capitalist system that has defined America for 235 years OR is this simply a group of mind-numbed, "useful idiots" blindly repeating the mantras of a marxist revolutionary? You decide.

Clearly, in managing the situation, some police officers have over-reacted. This is always disheartening. Given the mayhem that has accompanied similar anti-capitalism "protests" in cities such as Seattle and Toronto, it would seem that the NYPD is not looking to be overly-friendly. This does not mean, however, that our mantra is "F the Police". If you think that the police are the enemy, then I must ask you two questions:

1) The next time you are in trouble....from a home invasion, a simple assault or a car accident...who will you call? Maybe you can take of yourself just fine but who will your spouse call if you're not around? How about your daughter? How about your mother? Who will they call?

2) And how did you feel about the police on 9/12/01? Were you proud of them or did you go around yelling "F the police"? Then ask yourself: What has changed? Have the police changed or have I changed? Your honest answer to that question needs to be considered.

Ok, time to conclude this post. Please understand, I know that the current system is unsustainable and must be changed. I am not, however, throwing in my lot with this first batch of "protesters". Marxist revolutions only lead to tyranny and mass graves and I won't be a party to it. Instead, we need a revolution of personal freedom and responsibility. We must reclaim representative democracy and free enterprise. When that movement finally takes to the streets, count me in. To that movement only, I will happily pledge my life, my fortune and my sacred honor. TF

p.s. Given the "controversial" nature of this post, the comments sections will be closely monitored. All views and opinions are welcome but anyone not observing TurdWorld Rule #1 (treat others the way you want to be treated) will likely see their comments deleted. We need more peace and less hate in this world and I will not allow this site to promote anger and hostility. We are all on the same team here and we need to work together if we are going to survive the turbulence ahead.

About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


Oct 2, 2011 - 8:06am

kangaroo rats and kleptocracy

Daystar - if I accidentally run over a kangaroo rat with my tractor, an awful lot of other things will have really changed in my life - I am guessing you live in Australia, a pretend democracy like Canada. We have similar laws here, and I have close experience with the government designating privately held land 'EP1', meaning it cannot be developed. The reason they were able to do so was, Kafka-esque, that it had not previously been developed. So had we developed it, we could have kept its value - even a cabin. And all around Ottawa, the nicely named National Capital Commission has 'expropriated' or stolen farms, cottages and houses with little recompense and no chance of restitution. And then they flip it to developers later, who start their careers in the City government, and end up sitting on the NCC, or some other government board involved in removing private property holders' ability to manage their own property. They get rich, have nice gov't pensions, and we can't touch them. Yet. I think we do have to remove our money from the system.

Hey - I did try to answer Audrey's question about TF's statement about capitalism defining America for the past 235 years. 1) was it 'reckless' to state this? Did TF not care about the consequences of his statement? Will his statement cause harm? I think asking if it was reckless is a silly question. There - again - you say reckless means poorly considered - yes in terms of consequences. Here the consequences seem to be an endless semantic question. So 2) define capitalism - the use of private property to acquire the tools to produce something somebody else wants. Has it defined America? I gave a flip answer above that still holds. On a superficial level it can be argued yes (Uncle Sam, Horatio Alger); obviously that is simplistic and capitalism is not clearly used in the modern lexicon.

American Oligarch RuNuts
Oct 2, 2011 - 8:12am

shaking the penny jar to pay the bills

Here in the Uk they have announced recently that they will be raising the speed limit on motorways from 70 to 80 MPH.

Most people (sheeple) will think that the government has finally seen sense and they are doing something positive for the driver, rather then screwing them at every turn!!!

You got to ask yourself WHY? after years of refusing consider raising the speed limit, citing safety and increased car accidents and deaths, that they now have decided to rush this through.

Well in my opinion, one reason only.... increased speed leads to increased FUEL consumption and thereby increased TAX revenue at the pump.

The motorist screwed again....

That is how desperate they have become. They will do anything to raise a few more pennies to pay the bills.

Oct 2, 2011 - 8:16am

okay, that sounded crankier than I meant

sorry, need to drink my tea.

Good morning, and yes - let's debate nicely and without hidden sarcasm. And here I will ask Audrey to refrain from taunting us with her Socratic methods. I too spent too long in the hallowed halls. Many people have many skills. Let us be plain people who speak plainly.

Oct 2, 2011 - 8:30am


This is really funny if you think about it, but it's an excellent example of how we humans can see things from different perspectives. Where you saw "taunting" I didn't see that at all.

Now, I'm making a snap judgement here based on way too little information but I think I discern a keen intellect and a very precise communicator. Personally, I hate sloppy thinking and never more than when I find it in myself. I perceive that Audrey doesn't allow much slop in her noggin and probably doesn't allow much in those around her. Because I like being challenged to precision in my thinking I covet being around people like that. They force me to a higher level.

That's really what was behind my "intervention" on her behalf. She doesn't need some white knight and that's not the role I was trying to play. I know better :).

My motive was more selfish. I didn't want to see her run off before we got a chance to get to know her. It's not fun to get logically sliced and diced, but it sure makes you go back and examine your foundations...and I need that.

Anyway....nothing wrong with different perspectives. Nothing at all :)

Oct 2, 2011 - 8:44am

A rational video on the

A rational video on the sociology of how people feel.

Video unavailable
Audrey Stormdancer
Oct 2, 2011 - 8:45am

Why Stormdancer - you flatter me

Why thank you Stormdancer, this non-blonde is flattered.

In fact I've been a (silent) member of the community since it started. Like many I've followed Mr Turd from Zero Hedge where his comments were informative, and most of all, sincere - even though I do get very nervous (and a little embarrassed when he picks his you know what) - last time we all ended up in the poo. But nevertheless the man with the Macbook does his sincere best - just the way it should be. The antithesis of the men with in pin stripped suits, is our Turd.

And you are correct Stormdancer, we should leave our egos out in the back paddock, and stick to the topic at hand; it would appear that in general we all agree that things are ugly, and under the current "regime" (that was intentionally rhetorical '-) things don't look like getting any better.

Rhetoric is a very powerful communication and persuasion tool. President (change we can believe in) Obama did an excellent job in teaching us just how powerful (and seductive) rhetoric can be (so did a guy named Adolf). It's sad that it has been the only positive lesson taught by BO thus far.

There was another master of rhetoric I'm sure we all admire: one Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, a humble teacher, he was the real deal, and a true hero. He wrote beautifully, and conveyed to us all the reality, horrors and emotions of a country in conflict. But what he wrote and how he wrote it was underpinned by reality.

And there lies the difference between good rhetoric and deceptiveness, that which becomes the foundation of a convincing argument must have at least have some credibility, truth. These days, as days before, our leaders have little respect for that which is true and correct, rather that which will get them re-elected. The greater majority of us would accept this to be true, and don't like it.

And then we have dialectics, a more analytical approach to the question at hand.

For those familiar with the Plato (the neo-cons are) will be aware that Philosopher Kings, the myth of the metals, and noble lies all originated from a simple question: What is justice?

The unfortunate thing is some intellectuals (and conservative cynics) took Plato's Republic seriously and decided lying to the people was the necessary mechanism of control and social cohesion - don't take my world for it, go and read the Republic, read PANAC and join the dots. Politics is as old as prostitution, and nothing really changes, except the diseases have gotten nastier.

Let's all be careful for there are many diseases (memes) that the powers that be will spread like (an Edward Bernays' engineered) wildfire to divide us - let's not let that happen, in spite of everything.

Regards Audrey.

Bobbejaan Stormdancer
Oct 2, 2011 - 8:53am


Now, I'm making a snap judgement here based on way too little information but I think I discern a keen intellect and a very precise communicator. Personally, I hate sloppy thinking and never more than when I find it in myself. I perceive that Audrey doesn't allow much slop in her noggin and probably doesn't allow much in those around her. Because I like being challenged to precision in my thinking I covet being around people like that. They force me to a higher level.

WOW!!! ... I REALLY need to get a thicker grade of tinfoil for my hat ... It's really scary when other people can so easily steal my exact thoughts.

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:02am


You used the acronym PANAC....I got nothing relevant on google....did you possibly mean PNAC (Project for a New American Century)?

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:02am

taunting not a matter of perspective

"Defining Your Terms - An Introduction to Socrates" was the subject of one of Audrey's posts. That is sarcastic. Let us not play games with each other. I will agree to disagree. I will argue terms. I will argue principles. But I do not like being treated like an idiot.

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:06am


ROFL...we got lots of those around here already. I just didn't want a new one to escape :) It's what makes this place so valuable and I see I'm not the only one who feels that way :)

Audrey Stormdancer
Oct 2, 2011 - 9:07am

Project for a New American Century

Apologies - Project for a New American Century is correct

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:11am


Please don't be offended. I wasn't trying to invalidate your perspective by sharing my own. I'm not the beneficiary of a classical education. I'm a soldier who spent most of his adult life sleeping on rocks in wild places. What little I've got I got from the people around me and from a voracious appetite for reading.

I really do treasure having people around me that introduce me to new things to go look up and learn about. That includes you :)

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:21am

Filling voids

In my recent travels I was struck, haunted even by this statue:

The original reference is to something else entirely (though not altogether OT either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Description_of_a_Struggle), but works of art are great in allowing themselves to be used for many purposes. I view our current society to be in many ways very much akin to this statue. Guess who is sitting astride on the shoulders imagining "a landscape that responds to his every whim". And guess who is doing the work, creating value, laboring, imagining he/she is control of their choices and fate.

The majority have for all intents and purposes abrogated the critical thinking necessary for true choices, all kinds of placebos (blue/red, cap/comm [bi]polarization of the world; popular "culture" and MSM, the veil of 'unthinking patriotism', religious fanaticism) have taken their place. That's among those that still bother to think ANYTHING, and also among those who have the luxury of spare time for thought.

This 'hollow man' is dangerous for many reasons, but one is that such voids can be filled with ANYTHING. If you look around, this void-filling is going on all the time, at all levels -- Kool-Aid of numerous flavours and colors pours freely 24/7. With so many being unable to distinguish (and thus dismiss) them as such, the current trajectory of our world is unlikely to change. Soon enough, there will be a whole lot more people who feel like this:

But the way I see it, it ain't gonna be the banksters and oligarchs at the rate we're going. My main point here is that 'Divide et impera' is as old as human history. I have yet to see it used in the interest of the common man, to forge a better society or to promote peace and harmony.

vamoose1 Tabberto
Oct 2, 2011 - 9:27am


Well said, i was going to chime in, but his comment was so ignorant i didnt want to waste the electricity. AS silver investors we owe this guy Mcguire the world, he set in motion, with his truthtelling , a chain of events , commencing at the CFTC "Hearing" that changes the silver market forever, whether they bang it around or not, the jigs up for Those Criminals at JPM, and this is the guy that started it.

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:28am

Speaking plainly

Stormdancer - not offended by you at all! Good morning, and all that. I absolutely treasure careful speaking - but it shouldn't need to be too fancy. I have way too much education, but that wouldn't do me much good if I needed you by my side. I like that Audrey wants to discuss the issues, but she keeps subtly jabbing, and that is fine in university debating halls, but not here. It attempts to exclude - like saying not to take her word for it, go read Plato - well, guess what - did that, hmmmn, 30 years ago - so patronizing people is a poor way to get your point across, especially if you happen to pick the wrong audience. I am sorry to go on, but Audrey has simply failed to acknowledge her use of tone and inference to patronize her audience. I am calling her out.

Bobbejaan DayStar
Oct 2, 2011 - 9:32am

@Daystar ... RE:- Capitalism

Good to see you DayStar and an excellent overview of the attacks we've seen on property rights already :)

I'll strongly second Stormdancer on BOTH those points. ... and I also welcome & applaud Audrey's refreshing & intelligent posts & points.

EDIT ... (To MOVE my response to Audrey to a separate post)

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:33am


I spent circa 10 years in Africa too, and it taught me a lot ... and I will give you MY answer to your questions :-

Question = It is the "current" capitalist system that has defined America for 235 years?

Answer = NO ... It appears to me that the ORIGINAL system was very much what can be loosely considered as an "Individualist Capitalist" system, whereas the CURRENT system has been corrupted into a "Corporate & Statist" system.

Question :- Is it not a little bit reckless claiming that the "current" capitalist system has defined America for 235 years?

Answer :- NO ... "Reckless" implies either intent or deliberate disregard ... I would consider that "careless" or "imprecise" would be more appropriate to YOUR context ... BUT I certainly understood Turd's sincerely held meaning, and quibbling over a single imprecisely used word seems a tad "hair-splitting" to me (= Not everybody is a "precise wordsmith")


Question :- It it not belittling to accuse those you have never met as being "mind-numbed useful idiots"?

Answer :- YES, unfortunately ... and I believe Turd should be somewhat more circumspect in his descriptive phrases ... as such belittling & nonsensical phrases are the bread-&-butter tools of the PTB against "nutters" like us on this forum to try to "persuade" others that we & other protestors are of NO real consequence.


Eric Original
Oct 2, 2011 - 9:35am

Good Morning Xty!

I see you are in fine form this morning!

Is winter creeping in on you up there? We've had frost two nights in a row, and I'm cranky about it.

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:42am

The COT report may show a

The COT report may show a large number of closes of short positions by the commercials, but more importantly is how many short positions are there still left by JPM to close. And when their remaining positions are closed, at a certain point in time, we can expect the paper silver price reflect the fair value of the metal, as there will be no more intervening by JPM, as Turd argued? For gold the same story, I presume.

Wasn't the primary reason for having these short positions (by Bear Stearns where it started) in silver, and gold to manipulate the value of the dollar, or inflation? So wouldn't it be too optimistic to think that this paper manipulation game will end (at least not when the monetary system as it is blows up completely)?

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:51am

700 Arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge Yesty

Uh, for a trivial movement populated by fools and knaves , marxists and communists, with no validity or legs or leaders, this strikes me as a rather large number. Occupy Wall Street is spreading virally, and springing up all over the US.

If I worked on Wall Street, sitting in my mansion in the Hamptons today , I might set aside my coke, dropkick my Ukrainian hookers and keep a pretty close eye on the news this afternoon. I might have an interesting drive to work tomorrow.

Idle rumour has it that half the upper echelon of Goldman carry, no, not their lunches sillies, licensed handguns, I must say, i like that in a warm n fuzzy banker, it warms the sorry cockles of my heart. Do carry on.

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:58am

Speaking of memes

I've been thinking about memes lately and how powerful they are...for good or ill. Once you've been shown what they are you start seeing them everywhere. Some seem to be natural offspring of culture and social interaction. Some are carefully constructed and released into the social fabric quite deliberately and maliciously. I think of them as "thought viruses". Their power is that they can subconsciously direct flows of thought into narrow channels and boxes. Quite useful to those who like to control without seeming to.

But, some memes are useful in that they can describe complex things in an easily understood "snapshot". I think Ned Naylor/Leland just might have started one of those not long ago. He came up with a word picture to describe the manipulation of precious metals.

A banker hand, wagging the futures tail on the spot dog. He mentioned that he'd included a couple simple pictures in the interview with James Turk and I've managed to locate those. So in the interest of consciously spreading a useful meme:

These are his images of a healthy market - the market we have

And the market of the future

I would add one thing to that loco London dog and that's a silver leash with a banker hand holding the leash too. I believe silver has been used in the past as "leash" controlling the much bigger gold dog.

Silver is a tiny market and it's much cheaper to manipulate than gold is. Knowing that many traders watch both, if they can jerk the silver leash hard enough they can move that spot gold dog.

But...hat tip to Ned for bringing a simple image to a complex topic. I suspect it's this kind of communication that will help a much wider audience perceive the issues surrounding manipulation.

Note: Rottweiler's have no tail :)

Oct 2, 2011 - 9:58am

Good Morning!

Eric! Yes, it is like November outside - but no frost. Which is good, because I tend to fill the house with plants, and I mean fill. I hope all is well with the little pirates and Mrs Original?

KK - I wish I better understood the implications of the COT reports. I tried to read Harvey for months and months hoping a light would go off in my head - it went off, alright - complete darkness. I hope (and emphasize hope) that we are close to a moment when they might not be able to play the short game, but they can theoretically keep selling silver short until something breaks - I think we are in for a brief news cycle focusing on Europe, while the US smolders but the dollar is high, and then the news switches back to something like the debt ceiling (which used to matter so much????) and then the dollar tanks, and silver and gold shoot up. But, the question is: how long can the central banks make 'money' sloshing around currencies and gold and manipulating governments and suckering the middle class? I hope it isn't long, and I hope it lasts a lot longer at the same time because I am very uncertain of what is around the corner.

vamoose1 Stormdancer
Oct 2, 2011 - 9:58am


thats awesome

Oct 2, 2011 - 10:00am

TURD, you're not correct...sorry to announce it..

'reads' are click throughs...refreshing page.. adds to count- try it ...rapid fire. i am using firefox.

Oct 2, 2011 - 10:01am


I don't think people have been "trivializing" the movement. I, for one, take it quite seriously. I think my concern is, there may be some fringe elements that might want to cause violence, and with these arrests, this thing is now a powder keg set to explode. We've had primarily urban college students being the driving force so far it seems...but what happens when disaffected inner city youth get stirred up too? All someone needs to do is throw a brick into a building and we've got riots and looting like they just had in London. Let's hope this remains peaceful, but I can't say I have a good feeling about it right now.

Eric Original
Oct 2, 2011 - 10:16am


All is well here, except for this crappy PM market. Arrrrrggghhh!

Going to make some more apple pies today. We always make a bunch and freeze them, to keep us stocked for the year. Mrs. O peels the apples, I do everything else. I'm famous for my crusts.

I think maybe I'll spice it up by talking like a pirate while I roll the crusts!!

Talk Like A Pirate Day

Oct 2, 2011 - 10:30am

After all, it is Sunday morning ...

What kind of shortening do you use? Always a debate around here. At least it is a good day for pastry. I am deeply concerned about the markets these evening. I have been reading too much, and the powers that be do things on Sunday nights (Lehman closed at 30 something? Bankrupt at 2:00 am over the weekend, and 2$ on Monday morning. I am hoping that we are just going to miss a low buying opportunity and the price will start to rise, but I am afraid that this manufactured rise in the USDX is not over yet. I don't get it as it must be too expensive for the US. I know we (Canada) are a sucker ally and have bought something like 50 billion dollars worth of us treasury bills - and our dollar is in the toilet compared to yours now. Almost a 10% swing.

A good day for baking indeed. Maybe I will drag the one remaining teenager down to the market today.

Haole Stephanie C
Oct 2, 2011 - 10:58am

You folks realize...

This is not a question of if things escalate and turn violent but when. This will not stop. Prepare for Cairo in every major city in the U.S., etc. If anyone thinks I'm nuts and/or this is just going to go away, keep dreaming.

There is nothing more dangerous than someone, or millions of people, with nothing to lose.

The following is thanks to AldousHuxley on Zerohedge:

Occupy Maine - rain or shine

Video unavailable

Occupy Asheville, NC



Occupy Seattle

Occupy Seattle Day 1: March at Westlake, Downtown

Occupy Denver in front of Federal Reserve

Occupy Denver 10-01-2011 At Denver Federal Reserve Bank
Occupy Denver 10-1-11

Occupy Austin, TX

Video unavailable

Occupy San Antonio, TX

Occupy Portland- General Assembly

Occupy Los Angeles

Occupy los angeles has begun!

Occupy San Francisco - Marines joining in

Video unavailable
Video unavailable

Occupy DC in starting protest against corporate personhood

Sleeping accommodations
Occupy Chicago - Midnight on Day 6-7
Occupy Boston - Fuck the fed

Occupy Wall Street New York 500 arrested on Brooklyn Bridge

live arrest at brooklyn bridge #occupywallstreet by We are Change

More launching near you: https://www.occupytogether.org/

Oct 2, 2011 - 11:09am


I know there are many 'mixed' views pros and cons of the occupy movement here .... but it very scary on how 'explosive' the movement is spreading.... if it continues at the same pace it will be an interesting week ahead.

Bobbejaan Stormdancer
Oct 2, 2011 - 11:25am

Quote:I would add one thing

I would add one thing to that loco London dog and that's a silver leash with a banker hand holding the leash too.
Now imagine that leash as a "choke chain" instead, and IF the poor doggy pulls too hard, it gets "punished & choked off" by it's uncaring "master".

Note: Rottweiler's have no tail :)
... and if they did, it would generally be MOST unwise to attempt to pull it.


Donate Shop

Get Your Subscriber Benefits

Exclusive discount for silver purchases, and a private iTunes feed for TF Metals Report podcasts!

Key Economic Events Week of 5/13

TWELVE Goon speeches through the week
5/14 8:30 ET Import Price Index
5/15 8:30 ET Retail Sales and Empire State Manu. Idx.
5/15 9:15 ET Cap. Ute. and Ind. Prod.
5/15 10:00 ET Business Inventories
5/16 10:00 ET Housing Starts and Philly Fed
5/17 10:00 ET Consumer Sentiment

Key Economic Events Week of 5/6

5/9 8:30 ET US Trade Deficit
5/9 8:30 ET Producer Price Index (PPI)
5/9 10:00 ET Wholesale Inventories
5/10 8:30 ET Consumer Price Index (CPI)

Key Economic Events Week of 4/29

4/29 8:30 ET Pers Inc, Cons Spend, Core Infl
4/30 8:30 ET Employment Costs
4/30 9:45 ET Chicago PMI
5/1 8:15 ET ADP jobs report
5/1 9:45 & 10:00 ET Markit and ISM Manu PMIs
5/1 10:00 ET Construction Spending
5/1 2:00 ET FOMC Fedlines
5/1 2:30 ET CGP presser
5/2 8:30 ET Productivity and Unit Labor Costs
5/2 10:00 ET Factory Orders
5/3 8:30 ET BLSBS
5/3 9:45 & 10:00 ET Markit and ISMServices PMIs

Recent Comments