Of Revolution and Revolutionaries

Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 11:29am

Thanks, everyone, for the "day off" yesterday. I needed to step away and clear my head. A little fresh air always helps the cause. It's Friday. I'm back. And there are a few things we need to discuss.

First of all, the markets in general. I can't find a single one I like. The "dots" of impending collapse are everywhere. The challenge is to try to connect them...or at least connect them in a reasonably accurate manner that allows you to move with confidence. In the end, though the global central banks seem to have unlimited fiat with which to prop them up, worldwide equity markets look as if they are perilously close to outright collapse. And don't ever forget the ultimate, short-term benefit that would befall the U.S. should this occur, first eloquently brought to our attention by the great Tyler Durden nearly two years ago:


As this pertains to the PMs, traders should exercise supreme caution here. As you can see on the charts below, a breakdown today could foreshadow even more weakness next week. As I mentioned Wednesday evening, given the unprecedented level of C/C/C manipulation we've seen, I doubt they're done. Lots of moving averages out there that might provide support levels but I'm sticking with my ruler and sharpie and they continue to show possible bottoms near $24 and $1480. Again, if you must trade, please be cautious.

Lastly, I've noticed that, nearly every day, discussion increases here regarding the ongoing protests in New York. Many here are very passionate about the dangerous and tenuous position in which the current system of crony capitalism and banker oligarchy has left us. Fine. Me, too. However, I do not feel that Marxism and Marxism-lite (socialism) is the answer.

Perhaps one or two of our NY-based turdites could venture down toward lower Manhattan tomorrow to ask a few questions of these peace-loving youths so many seem to idolize. Let's start with:

1) What is the Federal Reserve, what is it's function, when was it created and what policy are they currently following that is so ruinous to the life savings and purchasing power of the average citizen?

2) What is a Credit Default Swap and what role did it play in the 2008 financial crisis?

3) In hindsight the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 was not a very good idea. What was the Glass-Steagall Act and why was it important?

4) Going forward, which type of leader do you prefer? George Washington or Vladimir Lenin? Martin Luther King or Che Guevara?

I'm not going to wait for the answers. Why should I when I already have evidence like this:

Cornel West's Closing Remarks at Speach at Liberty Plaza in NYC

Is this an intelligent, thoughtful group which seeks reform within the current capitalist system that has defined America for 235 years OR is this simply a group of mind-numbed, "useful idiots" blindly repeating the mantras of a marxist revolutionary? You decide.

Clearly, in managing the situation, some police officers have over-reacted. This is always disheartening. Given the mayhem that has accompanied similar anti-capitalism "protests" in cities such as Seattle and Toronto, it would seem that the NYPD is not looking to be overly-friendly. This does not mean, however, that our mantra is "F the Police". If you think that the police are the enemy, then I must ask you two questions:

1) The next time you are in trouble....from a home invasion, a simple assault or a car accident...who will you call? Maybe you can take of yourself just fine but who will your spouse call if you're not around? How about your daughter? How about your mother? Who will they call?

2) And how did you feel about the police on 9/12/01? Were you proud of them or did you go around yelling "F the police"? Then ask yourself: What has changed? Have the police changed or have I changed? Your honest answer to that question needs to be considered.

Ok, time to conclude this post. Please understand, I know that the current system is unsustainable and must be changed. I am not, however, throwing in my lot with this first batch of "protesters". Marxist revolutions only lead to tyranny and mass graves and I won't be a party to it. Instead, we need a revolution of personal freedom and responsibility. We must reclaim representative democracy and free enterprise. When that movement finally takes to the streets, count me in. To that movement only, I will happily pledge my life, my fortune and my sacred honor. TF

p.s. Given the "controversial" nature of this post, the comments sections will be closely monitored. All views and opinions are welcome but anyone not observing TurdWorld Rule #1 (treat others the way you want to be treated) will likely see their comments deleted. We need more peace and less hate in this world and I will not allow this site to promote anger and hostility. We are all on the same team here and we need to work together if we are going to survive the turbulence ahead.

About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


Sep 30, 2011 - 11:00pm

You Got it Wrong Turd

Excellent post by D Fibralator. Most people have not noticed that the left and right wings of the political spectrum are actually united in their disgust of wall street, our hopelessly corrupt mega banks - and the politicians that they own. Witness Dylan Ratigan and his on air rant and the Bernie Sanders rants on MSNBC, and the liberal commentators on MSNBC and Current TV. These people are Liberal with a capital L and the folks featured in the video protesting wall street corruption with Professor West are liberal as well. Interestingly, would anyone be surprised to see a tea party demonstration against wall street corruption? No, we would not, because the tea party rants against the very same problem. Calling democrats "communists" and tea party members nazi's is totally divisive and counter productive. In my opinion, the fact that these otherwise oppositional groups can potentially unite to call out the den of thieves that run our financial system is a good thing. My politics are liberal , but if I saw the tea party protesting on wall street, I'd stand up and cheer for them. I hope the left and right can eventually figure out that they share this common ground because as a united force, they they'd be much stronger.

Here's the post for anyone who missed it.

You got it wrong Turd

Submitted by D_FIBRILATOR on September 30, 2011 - 9:26pm. Hat Tip! 5

The reason the crowd was repeating what Cornell West was saying is that the NYPD has banned them from using bullhorns and pa systems. In order for everyone in the crowd (of hundreds) to hear the speaker they repeats what he is saying to amplify it. It's collective action at its best. Hundreds of people working together to persevere despite the obstacles placed in their way by the powers that be.

The movement has libertarians and people that are definitely more marxist in their outlook working together. This is a good thing. Red-baiting it is only going to divide the movement. This would be a terrible thing. What alternative is there for forcing the powers that be to recognize the existence of the people they've been stomping all over for the last decade? Thousands of people taking up space and disrupting business as usual is what needs to happen. It can work. It's what happened in the Egypt and elsewhere. If this doesn't work then you will have thousands of people rioting, like in London. Occupy Wallstreet is the better option at this point.

Pale Green Horse
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:00pm

"I thought about it, Judas

"I thought about it, Judas sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, don't lecture me. I mean that with all the love."

If Turd isn't afraid, fine with me.

FFF pailin
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:02pm

@pailin re: chart

Kind sir, this is EXACTLY the kind of reality chart us newbies need!! I posted yesterday that I sold a large % of my miners and quit buying phyzz because the prices just keep dropping. I have BTFD into major fiat losses!!

Don't be afraid to post reality as it can be a guiding light for some of us!!

You have probably already heard the latest from California, but I must hand it to them for taking a stand against the class action settlement on mortgages saying the settlement is too lenient on the banks. BRAVO California!!!

FogHorn LegHorn
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:03pm

Protesters,Cops, all of Us

Protesters, the majority from what little coverage I have seen, are young, and pissed. Previous generations of apathetic voters and self-serving politicians, have allowed, Their inheritance, to be handed over, attached with a banker owned," yolk of debt"and corruption. They are saddled with a future of "indentured servitude", to pay for failed monetary policy that made gambling banks whole, on the backs of all present and future tax payers. We have all been duped by some very clever scoundrels! They are righteous in their occupation of Wall street, as this is where these scoundrels can be located and shamed for their deeds. Law enforcement officers have children, and should open their eyes as to why these youngsters are doing what their doing! Men of good conscience should rush to their cause and aid with guidance and resources. God speed to them!

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:08pm


If you were moving some stuff within the 401K- would you put it in bonds OR money market- there are no other choices... the rest are stocks.

Pale Green Horse
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:19pm

He is a PM guy out of his league

He does what he does best and will not be messing with me, philosophy`is my trade, his is PM's I don't ask him about philosophy but he made the mistake of asking us. As monetary contributor I expect a response for talking about such non-sense.

If you only want to talk about PM's or have a problem, which I was not involved, about a police state do your homework. I don't contribute because I am stupid, I do because I don't want to do the work. And I don't piss on him or argue with a damn thing he says about PM's. But it pisses me off when he comes to my house telling me what to think about things he knows not.

Therefore the debate challenge.

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:24pm

Goodgarden and D-Fibralator

"In my opinion, the fact that these otherwise oppositional groups can potentially unite to call out the den of thieves that run our financial system is a good thing."

Goodgarden and D-Fibralator, - by your reasoning, if the KKK was leading the Occupy Wall Street protest, instead of the anti-capitalists, you would gladly put on a white sheet and march with them? If not, why not?

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:28pm


Thank you so much for your advice and support.

I've been on and off market for several years now, with a terrible track
record. I don't know if it's because I am stupid, or I really have
some mental issue...i would'be always drawn to it again and again, like
a moth to a flame. I need to stop and see a doctor.

For PM, I am a long-term believer too. From now on, I'll take your advice
of purchasing physicals with savings I don't need tomorrow, also with
steps. We are living in a special time, witnessing EE's power to manipulate
market like this is sickening, but meanwhile it gives us urgency to prepare
for ourselves as well.

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:30pm


Your reply might be the most important message I need right now.
Thank you so much.

I know I have a bit of gambling issue all life long...but till after
reading your message did I realize that how severe it is, and it might be
a form of sickness. To be honest, a lots of times, looking back,
I didn't know why i acted the way I acted in the moment. And I read
all the books talking about How to trade, risk-control...etc. Then
i made plans, entry point, exit point, stop-limit order...but when
I jumped into the market, i'd forget all the rules I set for myself.

I quit for a period of time, only found myself coming back again
with a bigger bet, more crazy act...if i won, i got the thrill;
if i lose, then i fell into abyss...but I need to be IN it. I've
never used drugs, yet i feel like I am a junkie, self-loathing,
suicidal, regret...all sorts of emotions. This afternoon after work, I wrote
the first message seeking for help and advice, and for the first time
I feel i am in danger of losing everything: my job, my relationship, all
my hard-earned savings, my sanity. A few questions for you:

1) I am looking for excuses for my action, but is it possible that
my compulsive gambling behavior might be a form of mental illness, and
needs to be treated with drugs? Or it is still an issue of I don't have
enough will power to control myself?

2) If I do have this kind of sickness, does that mean I should never
trade again in the market?

3) What is the best way to regain the focus of life? I've found myself
drawn to macro-econ blogs like here, ZH, TAE...etc Should i quit reading
these blogs?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your message.

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:35pm

We used to play for Silver, now we play for life...

Grateful Dead- jack Straw [HQ] (live) 1972
FogHorn LegHorn always_learn
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:36pm

@allways learn

Sorry for Your tough roll. Silver is a very difficult market to trade, it's not forgiving of many trading errors, it is not the market to trade while your still learning the ropes. It is getting harder to trade now because of JPM's short position, and the fact they have to get it covered. They are desperate and are pulling out all the stops to exit. Don't be too hard on Yourself, as in bull riding, getting a full ride and a clockable time, half of it is, just not getting the meanest bull in the stockade to park Your butt on. You just happened to pick the meanest bull in the paddock! :)

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:37pm

OTM & overwhelming bearish sentiment

Hi Guys,

Couple of things have come to mind, recently.

1.) Often people say that OTM calls expire worthless.
I think, what is meant to be said is: worth less (two words).
Worth less seems a more appropriate description.

2.) People say when everyone is talking up gold or silver, that you talk
to.. a dip is near. Right? I'm kinda feeling that now, in the inverse;
meaning, I'm seeing so many bears being bearish in the 'bear' camp.

Everyone is bearish, everyone. It's not right. Something is different/ off balance, here.

--- So, I don't know.. maybe it's wishful thinking, but..
b/c of all the bearishness, I'm starting to feel bullish.
For what it's worth, I just wanted to let you know.

what do I know.. ? Not saying that in a self deprecating way, just saying..

3.) Separately. That gentleman from Latvia, that is posting (Ivar?) his graph
& comments, seems to be resting in my mind. Anyone else? Cheers!

4.) If you don't like the user and/or troll, just hit 'ignore'. I've done it, works great.

p.s. Just went out to dinner & a movie w/ the wife, watched Contagion;
by Soderbergh. Decent movie. Lots of big names. I liked it.

A post from SilverFuturist (below), he's awesome.


Sep 30, 2011 - 11:41pm

As Rowdy...

was saying and to expand on that thought - it is all connected.


It was philosophy, conspiracy, 'something not right in the world', whatever you want to call it - that i was interested in first. I started reading, researching and as in the Matrix... the more i got into it - the deeper the hole got.


It was that pursuit that then lead me to ZH, Turd, CM type sites to learn more about the financial aspect of it all... and what my options are with my money. But, its difficult to talk strictly about PMs without getting into philosophy, politics, religion, relationships, addictions, etc... at some point.


Again, its all connected. 'They' are hitting at us on all fronts - they are smart f**ks.

Honestly, do you think they are just smashing us down on just the financial level? - but ohhhh noooo.... in other aspects - Politics, BP oil spills, 9/11, policies that take away your rights, relationships that are failing between men and woman,

chemtrails, vaccines, subliminal messages, wars, war on terror,

GMO foods, bottled water, Disney, Santa Claus, Easter bunny - nnnnoooo, there is no evil bs there - that is all just ummm, bad judgement and bad leadership... yeah thats it. And we can fix that too! by writing to our elected officials and and signing a fuckin petition - perfect.

Work, Buy, Consume... Die.


How can one be confident and use terms like EE (Evil Empire) on here and Death Star and Wicked Witch - but outside the financial - its all somewhat 'good' - corruption is debatable - it may exist... but we are CERTAIN! it does here on the financial side! only? Come on man.


Pale Green Horse
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:41pm

How abhout it TF

Will you debate me on something outside of your expertise. Everyone thinks they have expertise, when they just have general knowledge. Are you really equipped to debate me on the law and the facts, or are you just blowing smoke? I am not doing this to put you down, I am doing it to put down the people that that told the lie in first place. I am not Jesus, but he came to dispel a lie, so will I, if you continue this path.

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:45pm


Thank you so much for your advice and support, also sharing some of your
own experiences.

I totally agree with you that it's extremely hard for an individual trader
to make profit in today's market. Everything is against small players.
Trying to play highly volatile ETFs like AGQ, FAZ/FAS is like playing with
fires...bound to lose in the long run. It's a hard lesson, but I think
I've learned now.

Not sure I want to trade again. Maybe it's not my calling. There are
other important things in life. I need to have a new perspective. Thanks
for your thoughtful advice for all the newbie here.

Sep 30, 2011 - 11:50pm


Thanks for the support and warning, I think I'll stay away from this nasty
bull for now. May buy a bit of physicals to remind me this tough ride
I just had.

GL with your ride if you are still on top of it.

Long John
Sep 30, 2011 - 11:59pm

pale (green) horse.....

I will debate you..

Oct 1, 2011 - 12:01am

Gold Eagle & Silver Eagle AT SPOT!


Pale Green Horse
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:07am

pale (green)

pale (green) horse.....

Submitted by Long John on September 30, 2011 - 11:59pm.

I will debate you..


About what?


Long John
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:08am

And when....6:5

5 And when It opens the third seal, I hear the third animal saying, "Come!" And I perceived and lo! a black horse, and he who is sitting on it has a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I hear as it were a voice in the midst of the four animals saying, "A choenix of wheat a denarius, and three choenix of barley a denarius, and the oil and the wine you should not be injuring!"

Long John
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:14am

And when......6:7

7 And when It opens the fourth seal, I hear the voice of the fourth animal saying, "Come!"
8 And I perceived, and lo! a greenish horse, and the name of him who is sitting upon it is Death, and the Unseen followed him. And jurisdiction was given them over the fourth of the earth, to kill with the blade and with famine and with death and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Oct 1, 2011 - 12:18am


Someone fill me in...

1) Zyphen said what exactly

2)PGHorse has a problem with pinching one off

A little help would be appreciated, as I do not have time to scroll through 9 pages of bullshit.


CreditCrumbs always_learn
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:25am


I thought about the issue of trading some more. IMHO, here are ways to avoid being outfoxed by the market manipulators:

1. Cost averaging:

Pluses: you avoid buying based on emotion, or buying too much when prices are high and buying too little when prices are low.

Minuses: if manipulation goes on for a long time, cost averaging does not work so well since you may be buying consistently too high.

2. Buy and hold:

Pluses: your loss (e.g. buying at a too high price) will be amortized over a longer time period.

Minuses: buy and hold is frustrating in a range bound market

3. Buy in a market that is least manipulated:

Pluses: the less Wall Street manipulation going on, the more you keep your gain

Minuses: not many markets are like that. I view land as one such market. Wall Street types don't like it because every parcel of land is unique and requires its own analysis. However, you need a good team of advisors to enter such a market.

So, there is no perfect strategy. But any one of those three strategies will outperform day trading, with significantly better sleep at night.

Pale Green Horse
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:25am

This is vall BS

Turd is a PM guy talking about police. Then "Long John" decides he wants to debate me without declaring what the debate is.

My grandparents didn't grow up in the great depression as far vas they knew, the only thing they knew was it didn't rain. the fricking stock market was to them as I am to loving on other men. They had no financial investments, they were cattle, crops and no rain, like now here in TX. But mother nature had another Idea, and God overruled, we worry too much.

God always forgives, Man sometimes forgives and mother nature never forgives.

Long John
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:26am

yea....thanking Turd is nice, but..

we should be thanking his family and loved ones. What sacrifices are you, me, making being an avatar in computerland?

Oct 1, 2011 - 12:31am

Turd takes on political devide, splits his pants

Sorry Turd, but your political stance is neither understanding the big picture or core issues taking sides wit Police.

Que. Who are the Police defending precisely?

Not your beloved capitalism, but the State itself. The Police are not societies protection ring as you claim. Police (in all forms) are useless at catching criminals, especially when they're establishment crooks like the recent Central Bwankers take-down of the Gold market and blatant price rigging. The Police actually rob the herd of society with hundreds of petty fines while shrugging their shoulders at caring about real crime.

So you call the Police about a car accident. What do they do T? Nothing. It gets filed. Accidents happen. The Police come along and take one party to court which delivers retribution and of course the business of the Judiciary, a fine to suck money into the legal system. Note they change nothing about the accident, the Police/Judiciary just deliver added layers of stress, costs and faffing about we could all do without.

Que. Do the call of the Commies not have a basis of social justice?

The socialists are morons i agree but they see unfairness in society. They see the rich getting away with murder. Don't we see that too? They see the establishment not delivering justice but a protection racket. Is that not what we see?

I can't speak for you but I have miles more sympathy with the Commies cause, if not at all the wrongness of their solution, than I have for State Police. One Marine who'd served his time abroad called his local Police "thieves with badges". I can give you dozens of examples from all over Europe that that is precisely what this State (monopolist) force is. Like every part of Govt it does not serve the public interest it serves the State interest and is a protection racket for the crooks of State

Your best solution is to take no sides however. Get out of politics altogether, get politics out of our social and economic hair (systems). Politics is the most shambolic, incompetent, ignorant, divisive and corrupt system of social and economic problem solving ever devised. Govt is a failure mechanism. Govt turns everything it touches to crap. Everything, without fail

The removal of this destructive social and economic cancer that is this moronic institution called Govt would provide freedom which monopolising power in society, its precise role, is the very enemy of. Freedom and free markets are the direct opposite of State monopoly. Who is the biggest killer of free markets? Govt and its constant market intervention. Did you not witness the Gold slamdown Turd?

Oct 1, 2011 - 12:32am


The day they halved Poltical Economy into Political Science and Economics is probably the day this shitstorm got started. I think it went global in 1922.


Oct 1, 2011 - 12:35am
Oct 1, 2011 - 12:36am

Hey Pale......Did you just vaguely disguise

a parallel between yourself and Jesus? Lighten up. Hey Cucamunga.....post some more Dead videos from the 72 vintage (that was their best year ever, europe 72 was my favorite) and maybe dedicate this one to pale green horse, so he can relax a bit.

Oct 1, 2011 - 12:40am

The moment i saw this thread.

I knew Turd had kicked a bees nest......


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