Silver, etcetera

Sun, Jul 13, 2014 - 2:41pm

When I read on matters to do with silver I often find myself entertaining doubts. Now that is entirely to be expected when talking about anything to do with all financial markets, where bets are essentially being placed on the outcome of unknown future events.

But markets are a little different. Let me explain. First, here is a article by the recently deceased and very sensible Puck T Smith, blogger and member of the TFMR metals forum and website:

>>Local Coin Shop Update

Went to pick up a few Franklin Halves today. There were at least ten people waiting outside the shop when the doors opened. After they opened up, within 15 minutes, the place was packed. At least thirty or forty people. They had three or four more people behind the counter than in the past. Looks like it was some of the regular guys' wives helping out. While I was waiting for one of the guys to pick my Franklins out of his "junk" bucket they moved three monster boxes of ASEs and another lady picked up thirty 10 oz bars of silver. I think I overheard at least twenty gold eagle and gold maples buys as well. Of everyone in the shop there were only two or three people selling, the rest were buying and buying big.

This is in the Peoples' Republic of Maryland. What it must be like in the red states, I can't imagine.

Something has got to give soon.<<

Puck posted that blog entry on Saturday January 12, 2013. (His blog is worth reading through over a period IMO) It described a busy time for the retailers of silver in his local district, with retail buying from the trade at a brisk pace.

So let us now look at a chart of silver around that time:

I left the red crosshairs on the day in question, well the following Monday, since Saturday the 12th was a closed market day. We can see that this was not the best time to buy silver heavily, though Puck describes more a regular small type purchase for himself, I reckon that the other customers present who bought three monster boxes of silver eagles and the thirty 10 oz bars on that weekend, with spot silver at 30.91, may have suffered some angst when silver traded at 18.18 less than six months later. A decline of 42% in such a short time is seriously debilitating financially speaking, and probably bad for the physical state of health too.

With silver now at 21.46 those unfortunate people are running, if they have not unloaded at a serious price low, at approximately a 30% loss, not including price premia over spot on their coins or bars.

So it would appear that retail, the small speculator trader, was wrong in this case. This is an adage of sorts, "swim with the whales", rather than with the "minnows", when trading. Certainly the size of funds traded by large traders would at face appear likely to be better informed and more thoroughly researched than small money risked by the individual small trader.

Or is this the case?

This weekend I noted that the trader George Soros in recent declaration disclosed acquisition of mining stocks, and the source was considering that this is a positive piece of information. I am not so sure. It could be. But what I mean is - if I had been aware of this on the day, or even the week that Soros bought the stocks, I might have considered jumping aboard for a speculative ride. But now, later, not so much. Billionaires are like that. For some reason they don't want to make it easy on us little traders. Another piece of information, one which did not come to my notice this weekend, is the kind where a well known, famous, respected type hedge fund manager does an interview and declares "his book". Kyle Bass comes to mind, Hugh Hendry might be another who I have great respect for.

However whenever I read these people saying things like "the Yen is going to bomb" or whatever, I do not rush out to put on trades based on this "good advice". You see, I never forget that while it may once have been "good advice" when they did the trade, now is later, much later, and prices are not what they were at the time opportunity knocked for Kyle or Hugh. So it's all very interesting, but it's not actionable, and it's not fresh, and every dog in town who wanted to play already has had a bite of that particular bone.

In speculation, following public statements is a way to lose not gain money.

What would be interesting to me might be learning that the local coin shop did a brisk business buying from retail back into stock. If I were to buy at the same price and time I would be on the other side from retail, and more optimistic. In matter of fact, my optimism for a good trade would be pretty much inversely correlated to the pessimism of the small traders as a group. But that, while a step forwards, is still not enough. This really is a tough business, and every newcomer has to learn that the same expensive way I suppose.

Can I bring anything to the table today which is not already in the public domain? There is a lesson of sorts in the above anecdote I guess, but it's hardly rocket science. If I post a few charts, would that seem like fresh information? Charts are ten a penny after all, and there are lots of other charts out there waiting to be looked at, right? The problem with charts is ... well ... anyone can do charts!

So let me put that notion to bed right now. Charts are a picture of information in visual form. They are communication ... language! All of the variations of meaning or emphasis in several sentences are possible with a chart. If I show one trendline on a chart does that make it special. No? Yes? Consider this: if I did that, show one trendline, one only I mean, then why did I not show other trendlines too? There is much to see in a chart if the looker is prepared to look really carefully. I can look at a chart for several minutes, really intently - to the point where if called by a family member it might take a couple of seconds for my conscious brain to register what my ears had heard.

Anyway, enough of that. All I want to say is that there are varying levels of concentration and this is something that matters, but is invisible and unnoticed by a passing glance.

Now go back to the chart you just looked at above and try to explain to yourself why it is that you didn't instantly notice that the people in Puck's LCS that day bought their monster boxes of silver (1) right below the price low of October 3 months prior, and (2) with an interim lower high in place end of November-early December one month prior? Maybe you saw that in the first passing glance? If not, how carefully did you actually "look"? For how long?

One thing we can control in today's markets is ourselves and our actions, and particularly the care with which we acquire "fresh" information. Provided we take the trouble to actually do this of course!

It's time for another silver chart:

Above is the grid for weekly silver. Not every horizontal works. Not every vertical works. But many do. Crosses of the two have funny effects on the silver price ... sometimes but not always. There is a "form" that is not obvious. Looking hard will only aid but never cure the need for more information. That partial view is all the information this chart gives. Looking through a glass darkly, as the scribe said millennia ago.

Next chart:

Above is a silver harmonic projection forecast, together with an alternative "inversion of cycles" scenario shown. The dates are shown. It's more quantum physics than technical analysis. But if I had not made this "chart" myself, and saw it here as if I were a reader, I would have to take a vertical ruler and compare every wiggle of the redline with every turn of the price, to evaluate the amount of lead or lag for earliness or lateness of the forecast, also to see if "bigger" turns were found better or worse than "little" turns. But you could just read the dates I suppose .... much depends on what you want, doesn't it?

While I am at it, here is another harmonic which works as well for silver, so if there is a "flip" it would probably take the form of a jump in price behaviour from the above towards the next scenario or back.

This is a short term regularity which has emerged, just for a while, in silver and which does not appear to have gone away quite yet.

One thing I maybe should say about the small investor buying their first precious metal. A lot depends upon when exactly you become aware of reasons that motivate you to buy this stuff. I mean, if you never had any, and become aware that you think you should, the obvious thing might appear to be to go out and get some fast. Usually the advice suggests that some "insurance" should be got quickly, if none is already owned. But there is a strange thing about financial markets you need to know. It is that the passing of knowledge tends to be after the time it was most useful. Like for the hedge fund manager interviews I described above.

I merely remind that big things happen slowly, and there are a lot of red faced people out there with "the end of the world is nigh" sandwich boards and placards gathering dust in the back of the wardrobe. So it's usually a good idea to take time to look around before doing anything in markets. How much time? That would be "fresh" information. Those folks are reliable people. They will surely tell you afterwards! Otherwise look harder at your charts or find another way.

What advice can I offer newcomers that does not appear "cryptic"? It's actually not cryptic, you just need to get sensitized to what matters most to "get" that!

Well you could:

divide the amount you are going to spend by 4.

Put half of it away in cash for when the 1st quarter disappears in "tuition cost".

Since 1/4 is about to disappear, change step one and divide by 8!

Then it is good to multiply your reading time allocation by 4.

Next I suggest reading Zen in the Art of Archery, or Mastery which are nothing to do with finance, and everything to do with it!

Next read my review in this blog of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds,

and buy a copy (for repeated reading) of Reminiscences of A Stock operator for yourself.

Then study things called "risk management" and "money management" as applied to traders in financial markets. I like Robert Rotella's handling of it in the Elements of Successful Trading. But there are plenty of sources, eg Murphy or any of the better TA tutorial books.

Finally read up on rogue traders, and find out what they did, and don't do it!

Have a great weekend folks!

Argentus Maximus

The author posts daily commentary on the gold and silver markets in the TFMR forum: The Setup For The Big Trade. More information about the author & his work can be found here: RhythmNPrice.

About the Author


Spartacus Rex
Jul 13, 2014 - 2:44pm

Thanks AM

Edit: Oh yeah and FURDST!

Jul 13, 2014 - 3:20pm



Jul 13, 2014 - 3:24pm


Louie likes low hanging fruit. I'll take the World Cup distracted THURD! !!!

Jul 13, 2014 - 3:50pm

Just like the other day…

…I came here 4th, decided to read the article, and I'm STILL 4th, for whatever that's worth anymore.

Jul 13, 2014 - 3:57pm

Great stuff, AM

A very good...and Thanks!

Jul 13, 2014 - 4:02pm

Nice post

AM, Zen in the art of archery. What you are telling me is it is not about money but it is all about money


sierra skier
Jul 13, 2014 - 4:28pm

Thanks AM for some good

Thanks AM for some good thoughts to digest over the weekend.

Jul 13, 2014 - 4:29pm

There is no recommended book

There is no recommended book about how to pick trades ...... There are an infinite number of ways, and they all sorta kinda sometimes occasionally work!

Now about ways to lose money ..... I'm trying to think of a number above infinity but my brain hurts!

Jul 13, 2014 - 4:30pm

I'm A Stacker

Great read AM, being a Stacker I have no need for charts as I just keep buying as I know what's coming down the road and it's not going to be nice. For those people buying in the local LCS, I'm still buying, Dips, Highs, Lows because I'm Stacking for Survival and learning on this site what to do and where to put my PM's when the crash comes. Keep Stacking.

Video unavailable

Jul 13, 2014 - 6:37pm

Nice video Marchas. Keep on

Nice video Marchas.

Keep on making them.

Jul 13, 2014 - 6:43pm

Sorry Marchas but you really

Sorry Marchas but you really should be putting this all into perspective.

The premise is that at a time very soon there is going to be a sudden collapse of the dollar, there is a big diversity, a big drive away from the dollar and yet despite these declarations, the reality is that the dollar still accounts for 87% of trades on the 5 trillion a day foreign currency exchange market. So this notion of any week, any month from now, is utterly fallacious. We could conceivably be looking at another decade plus and when the dollar "dies" well, I am sure these evil cretins have another currency ready, probably in the form of some god forsaken digital currency.

Yes, you should be making sure you have enough in the way of food supplies, definitely and yes, being independent is a good thing but this "survival" actually encourages isolation and detachment from our actual reality. You should be worried, or rather, not worried, but have your mind more focused on the revelations concerning the fact that the elite of business and politics in the UK have been raping abusing and likely murdering little kids for decades. Has similar echoes to the conspiracy of silence documentary which highlighted something very similar in America, so if it was systematically happening in the past, then it sure is happening now.

You should be be more focused on the sickening portrayal by the u.s media of the palestinians as being less than human, or that wicked, psychopathic Netanyahou. Before someone gets on an Israeli high horse, both him and Hamas are scum, no doubt, but Hamas are not killing and mutilating scores of jewish children every day.

You should be more focused on the fact that Schiff said with a smirk on his face "the problem is that Greece hasn't had enough austerity", that one remark alone makes my blood boil. There are many thousands of people literally going in rubbish bins to rummage for food there, huge soup lines and this cretin says they have not had enough austerity...........This is a man who also supports bail ins aka banks stealing from people's savings and this is meant to be the alternative opposing view!

F this "the time will come when things collapse" it is collapsing, but if we just sit back and only warn what is effectively the middle class that this system as it stands cannot sustain, then what kind of human beings does that make us when we are ignoring what is occurring in the present?

Urban Roman
Jul 13, 2014 - 7:52pm


How will focusing on the horrific war crimes in the Middle East or Ukraine, or the perversions of the elites, help Charlie survive the crash?

Green Lantern
Jul 13, 2014 - 8:03pm

Marchas, 5 Stars just for the


5 Stars just for the passion, good humor, honesty and authenticity. Just a regular guy telling it the way he see's it. I like that. I would have given you 6 stars but you told people to ignore the charts. It's much better to have 10 coins then 5 coins.

That's a Maine accent? Sounds a bit North Dakotish.

AM as usual, AWESOME!

Jul 13, 2014 - 9:01pm

Thank You

@DaveyBoy The most important thing to me is to let people know how I'm feeling and I'm feeling through my insides that I should be preparing for what lie's ahead and what lies ahead is coming soon because my inside is telling me that.

Yes it's sad what this world is coming to but I believe it has been planned for a long time by the Elites and they will be having a strong resistance from every human being that wants their freedom including myself but you must have freedom first within to have it on the outside and that's where I'm comfortable and why I'm always happy.

You see I'm happy within myself because my surroundings can never harm me because I'm protected by a Spirit a lot higher than myself and it doesn't matter where you come from or how low or high on the human scale you are, you are protected when you believe and the truth will be revealed.

My believe's are not an open book but sometimes we have to open up when questioned and as for all the poor souls in the world there is an answer and believe it or not I do care. Keep Stacking

P.S. Thank you @Urban Roman and Green Lantern As for the Maine accent it's actually a little further east. LMAO

I never told people to ignore the charts. I said I have no needs for the charts, so do I get 6 stars? Lol

Jul 13, 2014 - 9:05pm

Thanks Argentus

Wish I had done more study and reading before diving in.

Green Lantern
Jul 13, 2014 - 10:28pm

@Marchas, Another hat tip

@Marchas, Another hat tip because I liked what you said about spirit. The great equalizer ain't it?

boomer sooner
Jul 13, 2014 - 10:55pm
Jul 13, 2014 - 11:02pm

House of Saud and US FRN's

i am reading this months global money report from Jim Willie. This thought popped into my head. Jim and many others are saying that the House of Saud could be the last nail in the coffin if they ask for payment in other currencies.

Earlier this weekend a series of posts were made about 9/11 and the "shocked" congressmen who were appalled by the House of Saud involvement. US citizens would be appalled by their involvement he said.

i wonder why now this is being allowed into the MSM. Imagine the rage that could be re-directed (projected) onto the Saudis if it were known they financed and were helpful to that event.

Sure would make for a great scapegoat if they did not take FRN's anymore and the currency imploded and the US could lay retribution for their "past" transgressions

Just a thought


boomer sooner
Jul 13, 2014 - 11:14pm

New from Koos

A snip, visiting with a CB.

Me: If a central bank (CB) lends 1 metric tonne of gold to Mr X at a 2 % interest rate for one year. Mr X has to repay the CB 1.02 tonnes after one year. So, the more gold is leased - lend out - the more demand for gold there will be in the future to repay these loans. Eventually gold leasing will increase demand.

Him: Not necessarily, the gold loans can be cash settled, there would be no need for more gold in the future.

Me: A gold loan is denominated in gold [ounces, grams, kilograms, tonnes, etc], so in order to repay the loan there is more gold required in the future. It can be cash settled, but this would require more fiat in the future.

Him: That depends on the price of gold in the future.

Me: Of course. However, I still think leasing drives future demand. For example if CB's lend out 500 tonnes for a year at a 2 % interest rate, surely 10 tonnes of additional gold would be required to repay the loans. This will increase gold demand.

Him: Not if everything is cash settled. Imagine "the Night Watch" [that's a famous Dutch painting], if it has a value of $1 billion and gets lend out at a 4 % interest rate for one year, a year from now it would require $1.04 billion to repay the loan.

Me: The Night Watch can not be compared to gold. What you just described sounds like a collateralized loan. You can't lend The Night Watch and get back more than one Night Watch when the loan comes due. It's different with gold; gold is a currency and gold loans are denominated in gold.

Him: Through a book entry it's really simple, someone could own 1.5 Night Watches on paper.

Me: And eventually ... 8 Night Watches can be owned on paper?

Him: Sure.

Me: I don't understand why anybody wants to own a Night Watch on paper, knowing there are multiple claims on it, while there is only one physical Night Watch. The paper claims are a fiat derivative of the Night Watch.

boomer sooner
Jul 13, 2014 - 11:53pm

Saw this discussion and

Saw this discussion and thought, "Fiat" instead of art.

Digital Art Is Not "Real Art"

-By Dan Luvisi

I had a little bit of a revelation the other day when I read someone's comment on Facebook saying: (Totally paraphrased, but this was the gist of it):

"Digital Art is not real art, and you're a fool for thinking so."

I was really peeved at first, after been training and studying digital art since I was 15 (28 now). Calling back to all the people I had to prove to, that I was actually painting and not just touching up photos like everyone thought Photoshop was used for. I wanted to write this big whole paragraph up, then I realized I was 28-years old and on Facebook, about to argue with a kid who had never drawn in his life.

I really wanted to post "will your digital art stand the test of time?".

Palin, where art thou?

Jul 13, 2014 - 11:54pm

false premise

the dollar is not collapsing, the "system" is collapsing. big difference.

The owners of the system (who also own ZH CNBC Bloomberg etc. and they ain't Saudis) are selling the Dollar collapse narrative to the masses, and many here, for a reason.

Wait and see if the Dollar doesn't outlive the silver chart.

  • Today Bubba works for, and buys cheeseburgers with, Dollars.
  • Today the silver chart is the single price reference for the world's physical Silver transactions.

There's a big difference between A) lapping up ZH stories and then thinking about how to prepare accordingly, and B) Reading ZH stories and thinking "Who is really putting out this message?" "Who owns the Central Banks/Bitcoin etc?" "Why are we hearing these stories?"

Marchas45's instincts are correct, maybe because he doesn't blindly follow the misinformation! Silver is returning is returning to it's monetary role. The system (central markets, fake charts, etc) will be what dies.

The fiats will revert back to their roles as national currencies with Silver and Gold replacing the "non-Saudi" owned currency exchange charts as the common denominator between different currencies.

This is Monetary analysis from the perspective that Only Silver and Gold are Money, and from knowing who owns the system (descendants of Cain, not Ishmael) and how they have operated for the past 5,000+ years. Money changing, "system" building, claiming to be who they are not, working from the shadows, duping the easily duped, tactical murderers, deceivers of the masses.

It's all super simple and obvious from a monetary historical perspective. It's all happening right out in the open, in plain sight, but most eyes are closed by fantastic stories that emanate from the financial media.


Only Silver and Gold are Money

Jul 14, 2014 - 12:44am


you misinform the board by stating:

You should be be more focused on the sickening portrayal by the u.s media of the palestinians as being less than human, or that wicked, psychopathic Netanyahou. Before someone gets on an Israeli high horse, both him and Hamas are scum, no doubt, but Hamas are not killing and mutilating scores of jewish children every day.

Let me be as succinct and clear as i can be,my english is not as prolific as it once was.

For lack of a better word that statement is utter BALDERDASH.

Not knowing your source of information may be the cause of such ignorance but let me state here and now the info you are spreading is false, a dirty bold faced lie, certainly inflammatory to the Jewish nation.

I know a thing or two about the Jewish nation and history but that is another matter for another time. Let me explain to you a basic simple FACT, Netanyahu in no way condones,nor does he advocate the killing of innocents.He actually is active in restraint against Hamas and the Palestinians. They have now placed weapons UNDER the homes of women and children.Why would they do such a thing. BECAUSE THEY KNOW DAMN well Netanyahu will not allow the jews to strike at said targets. This has caused grave concern to the nation as these murderous bastards still strike and launch missiles from these very same locals that they place their citizens to protect their weapons.

Know this, and know it well, Hamas and the Palestinians are weaponised and financed by IRAN completely.Should the significance of this escape you i suggest you travel to Tel Aviv immediately for a 6 month vacation.

Take some sleeping pills and ear plugs,hopefully you wake up every day.

You had better shut off your MSM and quit reading Obumner

Addendum. At any and every given moment there are 200, 000 missiles aimed at Israel. Stick that on your high horse.Count less women , children,and civilians are being murdered daily by Hamas and the murdering bastards you so valiantly try to defend. You flip reality to benefit your argument.I do hope it is out of pure ignorance. That is forgivable

2) Since this latest onslaught started Hamas has launched at least 200 missiles in to Israel.

3) Since i wrote this, Hamas has launched two missiles , intercepted by Iron Dome, at Metropolitan TEL AVIV.Not murdering and mutilating innocent children huh?!?!? Palestinians have now launched missiles at
southern and central Israel, among them: Ashkelon, Mesilat Zion, Nachshon Hartuv, Beit El, Nili, Psagot, Abu Ghosh, Neve Ilan, Kfar Tapuach, Ofra, Eli, Migdalim, Hashmonaim, Kfar Daniel, Modi'in, Modi'in Illit, Ariel, Barkan, Nitzan, Zikim, Yad Mordechai, Netiv HaAsara, Kiryat Malachi, Yavne, Ashdod.

Yea, no women or children. What bloody bulls^^t

Jul 14, 2014 - 12:45am
lakemike49 SS121
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:03am


late at night just between me and you, thanks for your passion,also for your perspective, i babble you spit your version of truth, and i need that see from all sides is what we need to do i agree with alot not all , i have never ment the perfect explanation, but you come close, the new world is like living with a whore , she is pretty, and willing, but she is still a whore, tells me what i want to hear, but has no idea who i am, each one of us should at least know who we are and why we do what we do. you are one of many that i listen to, that is the point of belonging to this site, from every side my ears will hear, thanks once more for what you do .


Spartacus Rex
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:12am

@ SS121 "Bubba"

Yes, I would like one cheeseburger please.

Spartacus Rex
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:18am
Spartacus Rex
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:21am
SS121 Spartacus Rex
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:30am

@Rex That's not Bubba!!

That's a Wall St. Banker, they're the only ones with wheelbarrows full of money!

He probably got out just in time. The fake markets are failing to keep pace with Silver which now trades only on the free market (everybody found out the silver chart was a Bernie Madoff special).

So everybody is hitting the exits and he's probably on his way to buy a couple of tubes of ASEs somewhere!!

lakemike49 Spartacus Rex
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:41am


just for the hell of it i will ask, were you in the service about the same time as me, i only ask because that looks alot like when they used to make me look for dust bunnies.


Spartacus Rex
Jul 14, 2014 - 1:48am

@ SS121 My Mistake...

Sorry, I thought "Bubba" was the one taking the order. LOL

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