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Miner Limbo: “How low can you go?”

120
Mon, Dec 9, 2013 - 9:50am

I have to apologize to some of you poor, tortured souls right up front for the topic of this post. I am genuinely sorry. I understand that for many, the mere mention of the word “miners” will immediately trigger some form of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Maybe the blood pressure will rise and the jaw will clench, or perhaps you may instantly develop an uncontrollable facial tick, like Chief Inspector Dreyfuss whenever someone mentions the name Clouseau.

“Miners!”

Are you twitching? Nobody would blame you. We know you have been to the 4th circle of hell, broken through support there, and kept dropping into the 6th circle. We know that you refer to the mining stock table on your computer as “The Red Sea”. Even self-medicating doesn’t help much, because that bottle of scotch seems comforting at first but then it reminds you that liquor companies are up 41% over the last two years. For that matter, pretty much EVERYTHING is up 41% in the last two years. Dog poop is probably up 41% in the last two years.

So I tell you with complete sincerity that you have my deepest sympathies, and I am truly sorry for what you have been through. You deserved better, and instead you got one of the most bizarre devaluations any of us have ever seen.

That said, I want today to discuss a possible scenario that I have considered, and I believe it may be worthwhile for us to think it through. Please understand I am not saying or predicting this is going to happen, only that it is possible and I want to be ready if it does.

The three-part hypothesis of this post is very simple:

1. Miners have been absolutely slaughtered, diverging tremendously from the overall stock market

2. Stocks in general are overbought and may be poised for a significant correction

3. If this happens, it could take miners to truly insane lows. I want to be ready.

.

Part 1: The divergence of miners from the broader market.

GDX plotted against the S&P for the last 2 years. Feel free to self-medicate.

  .

.

Part 2: Potential for a major correction in stocks

Lance Roberts of STA Wealth Management published a recent article noting multiple variations of a stock metric he likes to follow that was developed by Professor Robert Schiller, called Cyclically Adjusted P/E or CAPE (link) Anything over 15 is overvalued relative to historical averages, and we are now at 24.6. The short version is, in the last hundred years or so whenever CAPE was above 24 this indicated an extreme level of overvaluation, and each time (1903, 1929, 1966, 2000, and 2007) a severe market correction between 30-80% followed… and we just crossed above this level again:

.

Part 3: If the market sells off, how low can the miners go?

It is possible, of course, that even in a market correction, the already low share price of miners relative to the value of the underlying assets would insulate them from the effects of a sell-off, and miners would largely outperform the broader market.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAA!!!!! Whooo-boy, that was a hoot, wasn’t it? Mining shares being bought and sold based on the underlying value of the assets and companies? God, I kill myself with this stuff.

Anyway, suffice it to say that if history is any guide, the miners will be beaten like a rented mule if we see a major market correction. Oh, they might go down somewhat less than the overall market (say, a 20% drop while the market as a whole is down 30%), but it seems likely that they will be sold off with everything else. And given how insanely low they already are, it is possible- just possible – that we could witness some of the greatest deals any of us will ever see in our lifetimes. So I wanted to begin researching and do some due diligence, so that I could be ready to pounce and know what it is that I’m hunting for, in case this scenario plays out.

Valuations: Making a list, checking it twice

I have the great good fortune to have a Turdite friend by the name of Steven B. Horse, and SBH…well, let’s just say he trades a little bit. I ran this idea past him, and asked about several ideas including screening companies based on Price to Book value, and he very generously sent me back the following tables. In them, he screened for gold and silver miners whose current price to book value is ALREADY below 1. Now please note that this is by no means a perfect metric, and that there are many others you could look at. This is simply meant as a starting point to generate discussion and in the context of this post, gives us a view of just how crazy some of these stock prices would be if you lopped-off another ten or twenty percent in a market correction. Perhaps generous Turdites can come up with other metrics and lists of potential buys in the comments section of this post. Please note that SBH also included Price to Cash on the right-hand side of the chart, a fascinating addition to the table. Here is what he wrote to me about this exercise:

Mining stocks are trading at valuations that are silly. You will have the contingent of people who will disavow miners for various reasons, but there are plenty of people that will be interested in a list like this. Here is a screener that I ran for gold/silver miners with Price to Book <1. P/B is a decent metric. You will invariably get arguments from people that P/B isn't "the best" metric to use. I would say, however, that it's useful and is one of many that you can use to value a company. Price to Cash on the other hand is hard to argue with. With SSRI for example, you are buying a company today that has cash and securities valued at $6.74 per share for the price of $6.00 per share. So you are getting all the assets (plant, property, equipment, inventory, reserves, intangibles) for free.

Gold Miners Screener PB < 1

Ticker Market Cap ($MM) P/E P/B P/Cash

VGZ $ 27.81 0.55 0.89

EGI $ 46.95 0.94 0.9

AKG $ 169.25 0.73 0.91

RIC $ 40.39 0.37 1.6

GSS $ 114.00 0.52 1.71

THM $ 36.29 0.63 1.81

ANV $ 321.60 8.8 0.41 2.06

RBY $ 250.98 0.58 2.1

IAG $ 1,510.17 10.55 0.41 2.74

SBGL $ 666.95 11.49 0.83 3.24

BAA $ 150.13 21 0.3 3.48

NGD $ 2,332.86 11.78 0.81 4.15

KGC $ 5,149.07 0.77 4.43

EGO $ 3,947.01 21.23 0.67 5.29

HMY $ 1,129.09 0.35 5.4

AUQ $ 879.79 0.46 6.28

GFI $ 2,788.77 47.37 0.66 6.3

BRD $ 136.63 6.56 0.56 6.44

.

Silver Miners Screener PB < 1

Ticker Market Cap ($MM) P/E P/B P/Cash

SSRI $ 474.03 0.56 0.87

HL $ 825.70 0.62 2.79

PAAS $ 1,526.20 0.61 3.47

SVM $ 413.29 16.13 0.98 3.69

CDE $ 1,049.10 0.46 4.96

EXK $ 341.01 12.67 0.97 10.24

Importantly, my friend also wrote: I would certainly note in bold italics all caps that this is just a screener, do you own due diligence. I would only add that disclaimer because people on the internet are _______s and most can't/won't do any research. Then they will come back and talk shit, b/c they are ______s.

You heard the man. Do your own research. And no whining.

So to sum this up, I am keeping a close eye on Price to Book and Price to Cash in the case of a major market correction. It seems almost impossible that SSRI, for example, could fall another 15 or 20% but who knows what these insane markets are capable of? If we see a company with 6.74$ per share in cash on hand, going for five bucks a share, well… I’m taking the free money and the free company that goes along with it. I may well do something similar for a number of companies listed on this screen. In short, I am making my list and checking it twice. Of course none of this may come about. The rising QE vapors, directional algos, and Permanent Open Market Operations cash may simply continue to magically levitate this market to infinity, CAPE be damned. But if they don’t, and we see the kind of pull-back historically associated with markets at these overbought levels… well, I want to be waiting in the weeds. Just to see what comes along.

 

Happy hunting, friends.

About the Author

  120 Comments

buzlightening · Dec 10, 2013 - 8:30am

if gold and silver advance in paper terms; CRImex spot two days in a row. Seeing that the cftc snow job of the volcker rule vote has been postponed today. Like anyone cares what the cftc does. Have they even shown up for work the last 5 years during the silver investigation? LOL Time on stackers side. Something ready to drop into our laps. Even if suddenly overnight it takes the world by surprise it won't we stackers. In fact I've counted on an overnight devaluation to surprise the masses. It likely will. Sometime the 1st quarter of 2014 looks juicy for a number of facts which I could list and won't. Too many other posters who know the game and do a much better job in logical rational writing than I. My emotions back my writing and it's usually appears hype. Lets let the rational people who keep a lid on emotion speak the truth for us. Richard Russell's latest: US May Destroy The World Monetary System https://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/12/9_R...

Orange · Dec 10, 2013 - 9:06am

131210-obama-castro-hmed-650a.photoblog600.jpg

https://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/10/21846669-obama-shakes-han...

Obama shakes hands with Cuba's Castro at Mandela service
murphy · Dec 10, 2013 - 9:06am

I prefer unsustainable but

Submitted by Hammer on December 9, 2013 - 9:33pm. Hat Tip! 2

I prefer unsustainable but each to his/her own :)

And if it is a ponzi scheme, how on earth does one taper it ? There's a thought for the day.

___________________________________________________________________________

It would be easy to taper. Close 100 of the 150 US military bases around the world, cancel income tax and install a VAT, cancel farm subsidies, discontinue retirement/health plans for congress, etc, etc, etc.

Until they do.... I don't always stack , but until then, I will.

Or just do it the easy way. Tell the banks we are going to have a Debt Forgiveness Act. When they scream and whine and throw themselves on the floor of the Capital steps telling us it will be the end of the world, we can give them a choice. Either go with the the write off or we will sue them all for the hundreds of trillions of dollars they have stolen the last 100 years thru their corrupt banking system.

Then we start a new monetary system that is metals backed. Easy, peasy.

Hammer · Dec 10, 2013 - 9:27am

Certainly looks like the market sees a possible taper light coming in maybe even this month by the looks of things in the market right now.

achmachat · Dec 10, 2013 - 9:47am

they released the gold holding changes for October today.

Turkey added 13 metric tons of gold that month.

Official reported numbers for October makes a net balance of 14 metric tons added to central bank balance sheets.

Note that for October, Russia did not publish anything. (And China never does).

treefrog · Dec 10, 2013 - 9:54am

to each his own, i think it's both.

.....BUT we need to not lose sight of the fact that the wealth - food/clothing/shelter/etc. - is finite and that the financial instruments used to manipulate it, such as money or other social constructs, are just that - instruments, not wealth itself. 2000 new young workers in the economy (each day) can produce only a finite amount of wealth. certainly less than 8000 could produce. 8000 new retired boomers (each day) will require more goods and services than 2000 would require.

this, really, is the problem.

human society has, in its many forms found myriad different ways to solve this problem: homo sapiens has a long period of immaturity before we can be useful or productive, and if we live long enough a period of aging where our usefulness diminishes. traditionally, those members who are in their productive years provide for the aging while nurturing the young. societal norms on when each individual passes from one stage to another vary widely, and the quality of care the productive members provide varies as well. i believe we are about to see some abrupt changes in our societal norms.

with the end of the great unsustainable ponzi that is the keynesian experiment, i believe we will see:

kids starting work earlier. (i had a paper route at age 12.)

seniors retiring later.

and across the board, a significant reduction in standard of living.

the entitlement classes will not accept this peacefully.

silver66 · Dec 10, 2013 - 10:18am

Turd you may find this interesting given your previous life in the financial services world.

3 1/2 years ago Bank of Nova Scotia bought Dynamic funds (Canada) from Ned Goodman. Same Ned Goodman that has just been appointed to the board of Barrick Gold

Dynamic has a Mutual fund called Strategic Gold fund. The mandate is 50% gold Bullion and 50% gold mining stocks. It has had the S%$t kicked out of it over the last year. It was classified by Dynamic as a medium risk fund when it was launched. As of last week the Bank of Nova Scotia the owner of Dynamic funds has reclassified it as high risk(I thought if a stock or investment went down 50% it is less risky to buy then at the higher price, but I digress). This means that every advisor in Canada will have to contact their clients and inform them that they will have to change the risk profile on their account to include more "high risk" investments or they will have to sell their position to bring their account into "compliance".

I thought it curious the timing of this decision by BNS

Silver66

thedukes · Dec 10, 2013 - 10:23am

https://www.brotherjohnf.com/archives/249525

Fantastic read that brings up the Pilgrims Society as a major group of powerful individuals that is extremely influential in the gold and silver markets.

I wonder why we have not heard more about this society and how they have controlled and steered these markets for decades.

· Dec 10, 2013 - 10:49am

Waking up late on the US west coast... What is going on? Gold trading halted. 1000 contracts bought in one minute? Is it spring of 2011 again? I sure am glad we dipped into the physical silver market last week when it was near 19. 

I will enjoy it while it lasts, taking what small pleasures that I can. I still am not expecting a moonshot until the economy is sliding down into the abyss.

My NUGT shares are up $4...or 20% overnight. 

DayStar tyberious · Dec 10, 2013 - 11:11am

Tiberious, thanks for that tidbit on silver. I had never considered the possibility that silver was purposely being destroyed. I had considered that a byproduct of the necessary control of the PMs. It will ultimately have the effect of making silver much more valuable. Someone mentioned 1:1 and I think that or better is likely. The problem will be living to be able to use it. 

I read about one oz of gold in Weimar eventually being able to buy a city block of real estate. Silver might do better than that before this is over. Copper might be the money of the people.

DayStar

Maximillion · Dec 10, 2013 - 11:56am

According to the recent LBMA conference the speaker reckoned the current low prices of Silver in particular would affect supply in the 4 to 5yr period going forward due to loss of investment in new mines. Until then the speaker reckons existing stocks will supply demand. Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer (according to them), for any appreciable gain in PM prices

 https://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=159&title=programme

That said it seems very strange that we'd get a price spike on a Tuesday as that's normally the day that JPM et all do their tape painting (ie naked short selling,) in preparation for todays COT cut off print. If therefore we've got short covering by the non commercials/ small investors, and price capping shorting by the JPM lot, then the JPM lot, by increasing their shorts and taking the short covering contracts from the non commercials closing out, will be simply giving away their built up advantage! Conclusion IMO = JPM lot will have to sit on sidelines and let the PM prices rise a bit more before they can attempt another smack down. Wash rinse repeat and keep taking the small guys money!

buzlightening · Dec 10, 2013 - 12:09pm

benron burnokio may just resign this fomc. That being true there's reason for gold & silver going higher. The taper is complete non sense other than to trigger a collapse. If taper were real and viable beyond yak attacks we'd have 10 year over 3% asap. This is not happening. We know debt collapse is coming and if, and a very BIG IF, benron resigns fomc and just hands old yellen the old bag holder on USDinker fiat debt? The mkts will fold and the panic begins. 

buzlightening · Dec 10, 2013 - 12:22pm

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/silver.html Present month ask larger than future months. Slight but keep an eye out. Something begins to shake. A gold stop to the upside. China just call lew and say the bonzi dumb begins tomorrow. Still no panic in a thing until the 10yr jumps over 3% and remains at least a week. All the rest white noise. 

Magpie · Dec 10, 2013 - 12:39pm

but he was the one who brought us Social Security. LBJ wasn't a boomer, but he broke the lock on the SSI lockbox, and gave us Medicare. Woodrow Wilson wasn't a boomer, but he brought us the FRB. I'm a boomer, but I wasn't old enough to vote for any of those clowns. When I was in college my father told me SSI wouldn't be there, and to plan accordingly. Millions of boomers "contributed" to the program because they had no choice. So somehow that makes boomers evil? I'm all for a change in the program.... a needs-based change. There must be millions of boomers out there who lived on/worked at very low-paying jobs all their lives, and had no surplus funds to build a retirement savings account. Let them get the benefits. Some boomers shouldn't get a dime, and I'm certain there are many who could get by with less than they are "entitled" to. 

And, as for voting, does it count against a boomer even if the people they vote for aren't the ones who end up in office?

I'm getting really tired of a broad brush being used against boomers. We are not all the same. The word "boomer" is turning into an epithet....is it the new "N" word? One more group to blame and hate for the ills of the world.

And, FWIW, I'm old enough to sign up for both "benefits".....but haven't. Hmmm.

Thorus hans007 · Dec 10, 2013 - 12:42pm

>>>speaking as a non boomer, i think our plan is to just vote down paying for your stuff and letting you guys die.<<<

I've told my 24 and 22 year old sons that they shouldn't feel bad in the slightest about voting to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

The overwhelming number of boomers I've talked to don't give a rats ass how hard it would make life on their children and grandchildren to have the pay for the SS and Medicare the boomers believe themselves to be entitled to. Consequently, the youngsters should have no qualms about displaying a similar level of sympathy in return to the boomers when it comes time for the country to face up to the problems it built for itself.

I'm a boomer myself, but I'm ashamed and appalled at what the boomers and older generations have done to this country and it's finances.

To those boomers who say "It's not my fault, I had no choice but to pay in all my life, and now I just want what I was promised" . . . well, lets ask a question in the old form from High School . . . Choose the *most* correct answer to the following question:

. Which of the following two groups is MOST responsible for the financial problems facing this country?

. A) Boomers and older generations who have been voting the politicians into office for decades

. B) Folks 25 and under who haven't even been voting for a decade

And then let the consequences fall most heavily on those most responsible for the problem.

One guy's opinion, for whatever it's worth.

Regards,

Thorus

Edit: P.S. I'm all in favor of taking care of older folks and those in need, as long as it's done directly, and not through the Federal gov't. I figure I'll eventually have my parents living with me, and I'm preparing for that. But I can't see crushing my kids and grandkids by forcing them to bear the consequences of my generation's bad decisions.

AlienEyes · Dec 10, 2013 - 12:54pm

Fact is, most children of boomers are basically, worthless, lazy scum suffering from a six point decline in IQ from the previous generation. They never mention that boomers paid through the nose for SS.

rl999 · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:02pm

Dec 9 - bought 50 JNUG @ $13.60, Dec 10 - sold @ 15.83 (+2.23ea)

Dec 9 - bought 100 NUGT @ $26.55, Dec 10 - sold @ $30.95 (+4.40ea)

realitybiter · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:04pm

Is often the claim. Yes, contractually, you are correct. But do the math. Add up all your contributions to SS, medicare, even your public pension....Look at your benefit. multiply it by the years left.....now, what did you really earn? I did this math with an inlaw and the conclusion was that his benefit was equal to him saving $2,000,000....when he had only contributed about 150k....over his lifetime of work....sweet deal for him....not so good for the young taxpayer.....who gets stuck with the shortfall.

Everyone who invested in Madoff was told they would also get 14% returns. By contract, they had "earned" it. Did they get it? Welcome to Ponzinomics. You get it, good and hard.

I'm 53. I get my ss statement of what I have paid into medicare and SS and it is an insane amount. I doubt I will get anything. I am very pleased to see young people wake up and realize that the nanny State is no solution. The ptb pick winners and losers. Old people vote. Young people don't. Guess who loses? Wake up young people. Nuthin against old folks, but if you are screwing others to get it, it aint worth gettin'. Truth will set you free (whether you want it to or not) - you can deny reality but you can't deny its effects - or something like that...

Conveniently, a currency crisis will right all of this. If TPTB can blame it on something else (darn Chinese. Turrerysts. whatever) and they will, then heck, there was nothing they could have done....wasn't their fault...we ALL need to make sacrifices....blah, blah, blah...don't bicker about it, don't defend an un-defendable position. Deal with it. Your politicians have set you up. Don't expect the liars to help you when they can't.

Bugzy · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:12pm

Democracy in and of itself does not work. There needs always to be "limits" imposed.

Socrates was voted to death.

The Republic and constitution protected individual rights and freedoms above that of democracy.

It is completely immorally and fiscally wrong to be able to vote oneself unearned wealth. and as such borrow from the future generations.

Congress allowed it, voters voted for it - because they could. We have ALL lived this lie AND benefited from this sovereign credit card. We have been taught to worship the wrong things and then spend more on these idols in the hope of finding grace.

AlienEyes realitybiter · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:17pm

One might want want to take another math course and realize what the contribution of boomers REALLY was, adjusted for inflation.

Better yet, convert yearly contributions to gold at that year's gold price. Add them all up and then convert those gold ounces to Obama bucks. In 1966, gold was $35 an ounce. Duh.

Now you deal with it. surprise

Thorus AlienEyes · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:17pm

>>>They never mention that boomers paid through the nose for SS.<<<

AlienEyes,

As we see the results play out, it doesn't necessarily look like us boomers are going to get our money's worth out of Social Security.

How can we blame our kids for seeing a financial Niagara Falls coming up and having the good sense to paddle to shore and get out of the way of the disaster? Once on shore, the millennials will look at us boomers going over the edge of the falls to the rocks below and wonder: "why in world didn't they do something to avoid that?"

Getting clear of the obligations/burdens of SS and medicare seems to me like a reasonable and prudent decision on their part.

Very Respectfully,

Thorus

HappyNow · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:18pm

Thorus I totally disagree. You may be well enough off to afford such a noble attitude but many are not.

I notice you use the word "entitled". It's not 'entitled' it is the payback on the deal. Payed in for years, with the deal that I can get it back when needed. No qualms about paying taxes anytime in my life. 

I tell my kids to think long and hard before taking the easy way out and screwing those who don't have much useful working life ahead of them.

StevenBHorse · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:21pm

Love to see fellow boomers bantering back and forth about whether or not this shit is their fault.

As an old millennial/young x-er it delights me to no end.

It will be funny to see how x deals with this problem when it's their turn to lead. They will stop this nonsense to the benefit of their children, and to the horror of those drawing benefits.

I have heard many a boomer proclaim that they can change the system, but only after they die.

Of course, everyone drawing now or in the near future will continue to do so. The million dollar question is what will those dollars buy in that future.

Until X runs the show, inflation will be the order of the day to pay for these entitlements.

ancientmoney · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:42pm

Here is the problem:

"So the world is currently every bit as exposed as it was in 2008 to this triple combination of counterparty risk, with the associated contagion risk, which can then set off a fatal episode of liquidity risk (i.e. another institutional bank run), that could melt the system down in a matter of days – or even hours.

This is all closely tied in with the rapid spread of "bail-in" rules and procedures around the world, for the International Monetary Fund as well as the national governments are keenly aware of the dangers within this complex chain of interrelationships.

The IMF and the various nations are acutely aware that derivatives exposures can help set off another chain of counterparty risk, contagion risk, and liquidity risk that could rapidly bring down both the banking system and national governments.

This is precisely why, as covered in my article, "Did An Obscure IMF Document Start A Global Bail-In Revolution?", so many nations are rapidly moving to have the ability to directly seize assets from unsuspecting lenders, investors and depositors, in order to deal with these risks which are in fact greater now than ever before."

https://danielamerman.com/articles/2013/QErealityC.html

The problem is that the Fed had to lower interest rates to ZERO, and create $19 Trillion to give to the TBTF banks, because the Wall Street party was never reined in by the pols and bankers. Clinton's rein allowed the take-down of Glass-Steagall, which opened the doors to the greatest WS party, at taxpayers' expense, that the world will ever see. The Fed created more money in a few weeks, to save the banks (and the financial system as we know it, with the TBTF banks in control), than all the money in peoples' hands after 200 years of existence.

The TBTF banks, and the Fed, and the politicians since at least Clinton, and actually all the way back to Wilson, FDR, etc. are to blame. The voters, while stupid and uninterested, can't be blamed for what goes on in secrecy at the highest levels. 

realitybiter · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:47pm

Lets do a good ol fashion bankruptcy. All folks that have paid into the system will be treated like bondholders. They have bought into the system through their govt dictated payroll deductions. All payments that have been paid out by benefit will go against what you have paid in, using real accounting,not Govt BS. If you have received more than you contributed (adjusted for inflation and returns (chuckle), you are lucky you don't get billed. You get nothing. If you have paid through the nose and received nothing in benefit, you got some money coming. If you are young, and haven't contributed anything, or little, you get the knowledge of how not to run a system and the joy of knowing you didn't suckered for your entire working career (like me!)... Reset Going forward, we create a real system that can be sustainable. We take care of our old folks in a sustainable way. Detroit has been forced to do this.....but only after they destroyed the city. It is always "I'll start dieting tomorrow, but today I want that cheesecake"

Thorus HappyNow · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:50pm

>>>It's not 'entitled' it is the payback on the deal. Payed in for years, with the deal that I can get it back when needed. <<<

HappyNow,

I can understand where you're coming from. Your perspective is very common among my peers.

I think the problem comes in because there was in fact no "deal". 

A true "deal" requires willing folks on *both* sides of the deal.

Many of the young folks who would have to pay for our SS & Medicare will be at least as emphatic as you are that they did ***not*** sign up to any such "deal". Their perspective is that us older folks all signed this deal amongst ourselves. No one from the younger generation that will have to pay the bill in 10 or 20 years was any part of this so-called "deal".

Therefore . . . there . . . is . . . no . . . deal . . . it can be gone tomorrow afternoon, or 10 years from now, if that were the way the votes in Congress went.

To be sure, my life and the lives of most of my peers will be better and easier if the rest of the country sees things your way. So in that sense, I wish your side of the discussion all the best.

But I can't much fault the 35 and under crowd for not being so willing to sign on to a "deal" they didn't get a chance to decide on for themselves.

Very Respectfully,

Thorus

I Run Bartertown · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:56pm

realitybiter · Dec 10, 2013 - 1:58pm

You are right that SS is not much of a problem, but you are wrong about medicare. It is 100 trillion plus disaster.

You are right about the derivative timebomb and it is just a matter of when. Imagine, that both problems "blow up". So not only do you lose your government entitlement, but then you also lose your savings. That is some messed up stuff. All you will have left is your ability to create income. I'm not paranoid. Really. I'm not. kidding....Imagine the Hell this will be for those 60 and over....

It is a freakin' mess and folks that refuse to believe it are worse than paranoid, they are delusional and irresponsible. Then again, why worry. You have the NFL, NBA, MLB and college sports to keep you distracted.

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10/31 8:15 ET ADP employment
10/31 8:30 ET Employment Cost Index
11/1 8:30 ET Productivity
11/1 10:00 ET ISM Manu Index
11/2 8:30 ET BLSBS
11/2 8:30 ET Balance of Trade
11/2 10:00 ET Factory Orders

Recent Comments

by hindsight101, 2 hours 42 min ago
by scoremore, 7 hours 36 min ago
randomness