Considering Chinese Demand

541
Thu, Jun 13, 2013 - 1:36pm

It's one of those things. You hear about it every day but never stop to really think about it.

This began as an email discussion with my friend, Ned, yesterday. All of us in Turdville are aware that the Shanghai Gold Exchange has physically delivered something like 1200 metric tonnes of gold, year to date. That's a staggering number and it far exceeds the amount delivered through London and dwarfs the level delivered through the Comex. Prior to yesterday, I looked at that number and thought, "Wow. That's a lot.", but I never stopped to ask the follow-up questions:

  1. To whom is this being delivered? AND
  2. Once it's delivered, where does it go next?

Let's start by looking at this handy chart. Note that, at this current pace of delivery, Shanghai is currently delivering each month the entire global mine supply. No wonder they were temporarily "out of stock" back in May! How long can this continue?

OK, now for some additional background. Recall that, since about 2006, the Chinese government has been aggressively promoting gold buying by its citizens. This campaign really began to pick up steam in 2009 following The Great Western Financial Crisis. A quick Google search returns all sorts of articles which describe this policy. Here are just a few examples: https://www.mineweb.co.za/mineweb/content/en/mineweb- gold-analysis?oid=88452&sn=Detail & https://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2545:china-urges-citizens-to-buy-gold-silver&catid=48:gold-commentary&Itemid=131 & https://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1267715760.php & https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2012/01/29/why-are-the-chinese-buying-record-quantities-of-gold/

We also know that officially reported Chinese imports are soaring. In just the first four months of this year, China has imported through Hong Kong nearly 500 metric tonnes of gold. This adds to the 834 metric tonnes that they imported in calendar year 2012. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-05/china-gold-imports-from-hong-kong-gain-to-all-time-high-in-12.html

(Charts courtesy of ZH)

So where is all this gold going? I first wrote about it nearly a year ago. Much of it is being recast into kilo bars that, I believe, will ultimately be used to provide a hard asset backing to a future Yuan. https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/3924/gonefor-good

But that still doesn't explain the almost-daily, 15-25 metric tonnes of physical delivery in Shanghai. This is why Ned and I were so perplexed.

So, next, I did what any sensible person would do, I rang up Andrew Maguire. His decades of experience in working the international wholesale market makes him the best source I have for answers to these questions. The conversation went something like this:

Me: "Andy, where the heck is all this gold going?"

Andy: "It's not going anywhere."

Me: "What do you mean?"

Andy: "I mean exactly that. Shanghai settles all that bullion each day to domestic wholesalers. That metal is then shipped off to Chinese dealers and refiners for domestic consumption."

Me: "So wait a minute. You're telling me that public demand in China is currently soaking up 250 metric tonnes per month or nearly ALL of the publicly-reported global mine supply?"

Andy: "Exactly."

And then I started thinking...Well how hard would that be to do? 250 metric tonnes is about 8,000,000 troy ounces. The current population of China is 1.344 billion. If only 25% of the population is taking their government up on the idea of gold ownership, that's 336,000,000 people or, roughly, an amount equivalent to the entire population of the United States!

So now let's say that these 336,000,000 people buy, on average, 1/40th of an ounce every month. That works out to be about 3/4 of a gram or about $35 worth at $1400/ounce. Working the math backward we get: 336,000,000 people buying .75 grams = 252,000,000 grams and 252,000,000 grams = 252 metric tonnes.

Hmmm. Well how about that? Makes you look at stories like this in a different light, doesn't it? https://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-06/12/content_16611576.htm

A crowd of customers waits in front of a gold store to shop during a promotion, in Jinan city, East China’s Shandong province on June 11, 2013.

People crowding around a gold products counter jockey for position to pick up something in a gold store which sold its products at a price of 299 yuan per gram in a promotion – about 50 to 70 yuan lower than the normal level, in Jinan city, East China's Shandong province on June 11, 2013. The promotion attracted nearly 10,000 people who rushed to the store despite restricting each customer's shopping time to 15 minutes. While gold markets in the US and Europe saw panic selling, China has just seen a surge in gold sales in the past few months. Chinese households came under the spotlight with their generous purchase of the gold products amid a global fall of the gold price.

OK, then. So, do you still think that the Spec Shorts are on the right side of the trade, that price is going lower and that the "bull market" in gold is over???

Hmmmm. Chew in that over the weekend and then come back for more on Monday. It's going to be another interesting week.

TF

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  541 Comments

El Gordo
Jun 16, 2013 - 12:46pm

Losing weight

Since last September, I have cut the carbs and sugar as suggested by Gary Taubes in his books. Basically his research has shown that carbs=insulin=storing fat while burning carbs. By eliminating (or seriously curtailing carbs), the insulin output is reduced and fat is free to roam around the cells and burned for fuel. A by product is normalized blood sugar, reduced bad cholesterol, etc. Basically, his thesis is similar to the Atkins proposal. BTW, it is more of a research paper than a diet book, and most if not all of his findings are indisputable. So, rather than a bowl of Wheaties in the morning, I have fried bacon and fried eggs. Plenty of meat, eggs, cheese, butter, and green veges along with salads, no calorie counting, no extra huffing and puffing, etc. I don't know if it works or not, but I started at 310 lbs. and am now under 250. I've probably lost 2000 pounds in my lifetime, but this is the first time I've done it without any pain. Anybody want to start a weight loss contest or thread, I'd be willing to spot you the 60 pounds I've already lost and start right where I am now to see who is the first to their desired weight (at least 30 pounds loss or more), all on the honor system of course.

¤
Jun 16, 2013 - 12:46pm

Diets

Not to get wildly off topic but I'm seeking a low or no carb gluten free diet to try out. I love crusty breads and pasta etc.

Anyone can PM me a link about them or better yet go to the SpeakEasy thread and post to your hearts content over there maybe.

Maybe a lot of folks would like to read your thoughts on it.

Appreciate it

¤
Jun 16, 2013 - 12:49pm

El Gordo

I post about it and when I look up there you are talking about it.

Great news about losing those pounds

Gold Dog
Jun 16, 2013 - 12:58pm

"Fat One"

I have done the Atkins diet before to good effect. One of my favorite angles is that there are zero carbs in a number of the hard liquors. Scotch and gin to name two.

I had a fake knee put in a number of years ago as a result of skiing accidents and it went poorly.....I am just now getting to the point that I only need to hit the Vicodin bottle a couple of times a week.

The sum of it is that I have been much less active than normal for some 40 plus months and it has appeared in the numbers on the scale.

Now that summer has arrived I fully intend to start swapping my fat content for lean content. That, and as of five minutes ago, a 21 LB loss puts me right where I am even more wonderful than I am now, if such a thing is possible.

Tomorrow morning I am starting the Bowflex challenge as I do need some more muscle mass----it cuts down on foreplay <--- That's a great thing!

And good on ya El G for the progress you have made, keep it up. We all want to live long lives to see how everything turns out.

Your friend,

Clean Dog

Now off to enjoy this glorious day!

El Gordo
Jun 16, 2013 - 1:06pm

Fake hip

I just had a fake hip installed a couple of months ago, so my exercise regimen is still restricted. But the pounds just keep coming off a little at a time. My playing weight back in the 1960's was around 220, so that's where I'd like to be again.

tyberious
Jun 16, 2013 - 1:08pm

Great site

What to Eat and What to Avoid for Lifelong Health

We’re three lessons deep, and I hope you’re starting to get an idea of what you should be doing. Or, at least, what you shouldn’t be eating.

You’re on board with avoiding grains, sugar, and vegetable oils, yes? You get that, owing to their recent introduction into the human diet, people aren’t adapted to eating these foods. You see that contrary to being health-giving, grains, vegetable oils, and sugar are actually destroying our health and making us fat and sick.

You’re interested in switching from the sugar-burning Carb Paradigm to the Fat Paradigm, and you understand that you should be eating more animals and fewer carbs to lose weight, right?

Awesome…but what’s next? I’ve given you a few basic tools to identify what foods might be preventing fat loss and promoting poor health, so you generally know what not to do, but now you want the details on what you should be doing. Specifically, what you should and should not be eating. Let’s bring it all together and spell it out. And because when we’re talking about our health and happiness, we don’t want to beat around the bush, or get things half-right. We want to be sure.

Start by eliminating all the offensive processed food, grains, sugar and industrial oils.

Ditch grains: refined grains, whole grains, bread, pasta, muffins, biscuits, bagels, cereal, baked goods, pancakes. Anything made from flour, really.

Ditch sugar: white sugar, candy, cake, cookies, pastries, milk chocolate bars, high fructose corn syrup, soda, milkshakes masquerading as coffee drinks. If it’s made in a bakery or a factory or a restaurant and it’s sweet, just avoid it.

Ditch vegetable oils and trans fats: corn oil, soybean oil, canola, sunflower/safflower, margarine, shortening, anything with “partially hydrogenated” in the ingredients list.

Ditch all other junk foods, most of which encompass the previous three “food” categories: potato chips, crackers, “crisps,” Cheez-its.

Ditch fast food: Taco Bell, McDonald’s, Burger King, etc. don’t eat McDonald’s and think just because you removed the bun that it’s all good. Just say no to fast food.

Don’t eat that stuff. For one, it’s junk food that simply doesn’t taste very good when you get down to it. Instead, it’s food that’s designed to target the reward centers in your brain and get you to stuff your face – and then go out and buy some more. “Betcha can’t eat just one” isn’t just an innocent slogan; it’s the literal truth!

Two, it’s high in calories but low in nutrition. You can eat that bag of Lay’s and get hundreds of calories of carbs and rancid fats, but you’ll still be deficient in vitamins and minerals, and you’ll still be hungry!

I’ll be honest – you could stop here and reap most of the benefits. Because the aforementioned “food” groups are so heavily overrepresented in the modern food supply, avoiding them and just eating everything left over will make you healthier and help you lose weight. But we can do better than that.

Eat the animals, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds our bodies are adapted to thrive on.

Eat animals: beef, lamb, bison, pork, poultry (and their eggs). Favor grass-fed and pastured animals, which have better fatty acids and contain more vitamins and minerals (and taste better!).

Eat animals from the sea: salmon, sardines, trout, mackerel, crab, shrimp, oysters, mussels, clams. Wild-caught fish are best, though farmed shellfish are usually raised exactly like wild shellfish and thus are fine.

Eat unlimited produce: leafy greens of all kinds, colorful plants, berries, cruciferous vegetables, assorted fruits, roots, and tubers.

Eat some nuts and seeds: macadamias, walnuts, cashews, almonds, pecans, brazil nuts, pistachios, hazelnuts; pumpkin, squash, and sunflower seeds.

Use healthy cooking fats: butter (especially grass-fed), coconut oil, olive oil, red palm and regular palm oil, ghee, and animal fats (lard, tallow, duck fat, etc.).

Stock spices: keep plenty of herbs and spices on hand. Cumin, coriander, thyme, rosemary, sage, chili powder, mint, turmeric, and cayenne are a few of my favorites, but you can use anything else you like. Spices and herbs add flavor to dishes and prevent the breakdown of vital nutrients during cooking so that when you add spices or herbs, your food tastes better and is actually healthier for you.

All of this and then some is nicely summarized in The Primal Blueprint Food Pyramid (click to enlarge).

Follow those basic guidelines and avoid the foods I’ve already mentioned, and you’re good to go.

If you want some concrete recipe ideas, check out the resources I introduced in lesson 2: the online recipe guide on Mark’s Daily Apple, the reader-created cookbooks, The Primal Blueprint Cookbook and The Primal Blueprint Quick & Easy Meals.

Or, if you want to make something a little quicker and easier, I’ve got you covered. I realize that not everyone always has time to prepare a proper meal. I certainly don’t, which is why I created Primal Fuel, a whole foods-based meal replacement shake. Coconut fat, whey isolate protein (the gold standard of protein powders), natural sweeteners, real cocoa or vanilla, and prebiotic fiber for good gut health… I have a Primal Fuel shake nearly every day and it’s perfectly Primal (and tasty, too!).

So – what do you think? A “diet” composed of fresh meat, all the veggies you want, plenty of fruit, a few nuts, some delicious fat, and a diverse arsenal of spices and herbs doesn’t sound so restrictive, does it?

Stay tuned for Lesson 5 tomorrow.

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-to-eat-and-what-to-avoid-for-lifelo...

Hunt brother
Jun 16, 2013 - 1:24pm

Losing weight...

I drink coffee with lunch and walk at a fast pace for an hour every afternoon in the brutal Texas heat. I eat red meat and cheese on flour tortillas. I am not fat.

silver66
Jun 16, 2013 - 1:27pm

DPH- interesting video

William Davis - Wheat: The UNhealthy Whole Grain

a very eye-opening discussion on the changes to wheat over time an how it affects our bodies today as opposed to when a great grand parents ate it

Silver66

Mr. Fix
Jun 16, 2013 - 1:36pm

It is becoming more obvious "who" the "Evil Empire" is.

22 NAUSEATING QUOTES FROM HYPOCRITICAL ESTABLISHMENT POLITICIANS ABOUT THE NSA SPYING SCANDAL

JUNE 16, 2013 BY THE DOC 3 COMMENTS

Establishment politicians from both major political parties are rushing to defend the NSA and condemn whistleblower Edward Snowden. They are attempting to portray Edward Snowden as a “traitor” and the spooks over at the NSA that are snooping on all of us as “heroes”. In fact, many of the exact same politicians that once railed against government spying during the Bush years are now staunchly defending it now that Obama is in the White House. But it isn’t just Democrats that are acting shamefully. Large numbers of Republican politicians that love to give speeches about “freedom” and “liberty” are attempting to eviscerate the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The government is not supposed to invade our privacy and investigate us unless there is probable cause to do so.
Apparently many of our politicians misunderstood when they read the novel 1984 by George Orwell. It wasn’t supposed to be an instruction manual.
[Read more...]

Spicoli
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:05pm

LMAO!!!

Happy Fathers Day to the dad's of the world! Here's a little funny for ya.

alex jones max keiser and the artist taxi driver
The Watchman
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:06pm
murphy
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:36pm

Tyberious

Excellent post. It's pretty simple.

Generalizing, if it comes in a box, can or bag, don't buy it

Mr. Fix
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:45pm

So why hasn't Chicago been locked down?

Considering all of the shootings, all of the death and chaos, and then taking into consideration that no one is yet in custody, why wouldn't the authorities at least be consistent, and do a encore performance of Boston?

It has already been clearly demonstrated that an entire American city can be locked down, and searched door-to-door, in pursuit of one teenager.

Chicago has obviously lost all control over its crime epidemic.

And yet, it would appear that the authorities are either incapable, or unwilling to do anything about it.

Obviously, gun control laws will only exacerbate the situation, as in Chicago, only the criminals have guns.

My questions are completely rhetorical, as it has become quite obvious that this type of carnage is permissible by a government who has clearly abandoned any pretense of promoting public safety.

Mr. Fix
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:57pm

Why gold and silver "fundamentals" can not be reversed:

Why the Fed Cannot "Exit" Successfully... Without a Market Crash Submitted by Phoenix Capital Research on 06/15/2013 13:03 -0400

    • Bernanke claims the Fed can successfully exit its current strategy. He’s lying. Or he’s adhering too strongly to economics and ignoring human nature.

      One of the easiest trades for financial institutions over the last four years has been to simply front-run the Fed during its QE programs.

      After all, the Fed was literally broadcasting its intentions to the markets. So traders did what they do best and took advantage of this.

      In this context, the second rumors begin that the Fed would taper its bond buying you should see bonds collapse as traders realize the game is up.

      And if the Fed actually did taper or begin to implement a strategy that even resembled taking its foot off the gas… or God forbid exit, then we’d see a very rapid adjustment to reveal the “real” risk in the system and the “real” level at which rates should be.

      Take a look at what happened to the 10-Year Treasury when rumors of “tapering” appeared:

      The Fed cannot exit. It will claim that it can, but market reactions to any real exit will be disastrous. We’ve passed the point of no return. Bernanke’s best home is to retire before the music stops.

alan2102 ag1969
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:59pm

ag1969

The issue is INTENT. I'm not saying that Obama is not a bad guy. I'm saying that I don't believe that he is consciously trying to ruin America. He is not against America; he is FOR BHO. He is a careerist politician, enjoying his status, and playing the role that his paymasters have mapped out for him. There is a big difference between not caring, and being a satanic bastard. Satanic bastards DO care, and actually want to cause maximum harm. I think that that is quite rare. I highly doubt that that is true of BHO.

opticsguy
Jun 16, 2013 - 2:59pm

Diet

5 years ago my cholersterol was 250, but the ratios were good. That was when I was eating per the food pyramid, but I was putting on weight. I was getting injections in my spine and both knees hurt from skiing, running and other abuse.

Two years ago I pretty much stopped eating bread/pasta and started eating eggs every day. Started on Mg Citrate, Astaxanthin, Chlorella, Spirulina, Tumeric

Earlier this year I started 20 hour fasts twice per month, and now get a third of my calories from nuts, still eating eggs most every day. Also make a kale/Greek yogurt/Dandelion leaf smoothie every morning.

Cholesterol was 195 when last tested. This morning I tied a personal best biking around a nearby airport, 21 MPH for 10 miles (hills and wind), a best I set 12 years ago at 38.

It's amazing what nutrition can do. Oh, and nothing hurts anymore. My dentist still can't believe a 50 year-old is on NO prescription drugs.

tyberious
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:03pm

Murphy

Yes it is!

Thanks

As an aside, we all should not be supporting any of the global control mechanisms! All of the corporations have way to much control over our lives and I for one will not be controlled. I know it is an often repeated mantra, but buy local should be practiced as much as possible! Sure detractors will say it cost more, but my interactions with my local hardware store is infinitely more relative concerning my local neighborhood that any conversation at Home Depot, and I know that my money is staying within our community!

Look, we are never going to be able to compete against corporate dominated money, so just don't give them your money!

That is really our only option!

alan2102 George Clooney
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:10pm

Xty

"Remember, there were meant to be Russian troops on US streets back in May."

Xty, Xty! There WERE Russian troops on US streets back in May! The only reason you didn't see them was that the Illuminati's orbitting mind-control lasers obliterated the portion of your brain that is responsible for perceiving the presence of Russian troops on US streets. See? Simple explanation. I'm sure it is all clear to you, now. But don't thank me. My pleasure to be of service.

tyberious
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:11pm

Diet

I was diagnosed with per-hypertension at age 40, BP 135/90, IIRC. Started the neolithic diet in 2008, last check up 116/70, resting HR 55, I've never had a problem with triglycerides. I have eat eggs and bacon every day!

Bugzy
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:12pm

Highly recommend primal blueprint

Been doing this since beginning of the year. What would Grok do? Compares two families: Grok (primal), Korg (modern).

I read Wheat belly first and then read Primal Blueprint. Lost about 25 pounds from waist. Also doing the WOW (workout of week) aiming for level 4. In 4 months I feel better than I have in 25 years!

Never feel hungry, putting on muscle like a teenager, way more energy. My body and joints feel less "angry" inside. (maybe reduced auto immune response). No more belly bloat. Mrs Bugzy is also giving it a go so that makes it great bacon and eggs and fried mushrooms and onion and organic on the vine tomatoes....for breakfast and barbi every night.

Indeed we , donated all those breakfast cereals and flower and the bread maker to food banks and such. There is nothing in our home which is not Grok. (actually we have stored all the steel cut oats as emergency food).

Look up marks daily apple - lots of free stuff

Edit: We only go to local clean butcher, from local farmers, with grass fed and we go to farmers market on Sunday to buy local - with cash - amazing tasty stuff that you cannot even get a whole foods etc. Yes, it is a sort of taking back control from the corporate machine. Empowering in a world of ever more signs tell me what I am not allowed to do.

Mr. Fix
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:26pm

@ alan2102 I could not disagree more.

I do not believe that political expediency is a major concern of Pres. Obama's.

He is now even alienating the base of his own party when he comes out and defends warrentless searches. or even better, decides to get us involved in another war, in which we have no national interest at all.

No doubt, maintaining his own power is a major consideration, and keeping the “free shit Army” happy is a means to an end. Even if you believe the official version of events, Barack Obama was born into a family of communist sympathizers, with open hatred towards capitalism and the United States. Friends and associates throughout his life have openly condemned United States, and many have worked towards a goal of undermining it.

It is not an accident that president Obama ran on a platform of “fundamental transformation of America”.

No doubt, he is personally bilking the system for all that is worth, but to believe that he has anything other than contempt for America is naïve.

He would be more popular if he just went on vacation and stayed there, without implementing a policy agenda that could not possibly have any other outcome than to destroy America.

When you really look hard at Obama's game plan, the conclusion that he hates America and that he is working actively to destroy it is inescapable.

By the way, I'm not talking politics either, the Republican leadership is just as contemptible, and are supporting his agenda as well.

That's why I assert that there will be no “good guys” coming to the rescue.

Bollocks
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:53pm

New Thread

kiddies

Urban Roman
Jun 16, 2013 - 3:56pm

Mr Fix, your last comment

... looks like it came straight out of the talking points memo for the Rush Limbaugh Institute of Conspiracy Theory Studies.

Barry's a politician. His constituency has been the minorities and poor, but calling him a Communist just makes you look like an idiot.

I don't think he really has an agenda at all, he hasn't shown much of a penchant for managing anything. He has merely continued the policies of Bush. Which does indeed alienate his base. It is essentially a Corporatist agenda.

I think his economic advisers have told him that they can forestall the inevitable correction, which I have seen coming since at least the late '90s. So he is having Ben print, he is protecting the fraudsters and punishing whistleblowers, and trying to paper over the collapse as long as possible. On the 'security' side, of course, you have the various policies we have been commenting on, attempting to disarm the populace, keep them ignorant, and militarize the police while turning the military inward.

All the while whistling past the graveyard of failed empires. It has all the hallmarks of one of those.

DBean
Jun 16, 2013 - 4:33pm

Diets..

Coincidentally, I just picked up a book and was poking around in it this morning. (I heard the author interviewed on a podcast last week). She does an interesting interview and her book is more than just a regular "diet" book.

Primal Body, Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudas

Similar to what has already been recommended in above posts (South Beach diet, Atkins, Taubes)...protein, veggies, few fruits... Murphy summed it up pretty well...

Gluten free is easy at first...then hard....then not so bad once you finally adjust. It's very simple eating and way less time in the kitchen cooking. (But, way more time hunting and growing all that food!! Now, I partly jest)!

Started about 5 years ago with "Gluten Free" for dummies.. where else?

Mr. Fix
Jun 16, 2013 - 5:14pm

@ Urban Roman:

Thank you for the reply, and to someone who does not listen to Rush Limbaugh, my comments might sound like something he would say, but if you look closely, I most certainly am not regurgitating anything that I heard on his show.

Admittedly, I listen to talk radio daily, and Rush Limbaugh has been on daily for over 20 years,

but when it comes to what's going on in our government today, I think he is only slowly starting to wake up to the realities, or at least he's only beginning to acknowledge them.

His assertions last week that our government has been hijacked in a bloodless coup and that the United States citizenry is no longer in control of our government was a groundbreaking revelation for him.

Ever since election day, he has been working from the premise that America has become so stupid and bought off that they reelected Obama. I have never believed this to be true.

The election was no more than a staged event whereby the outcome was predetermined.

All along, Rush Limbaugh has been a Republican cheerleader, always trying to get conservatives elected,

and then looking on with dismay when they'll vote against their own principles, and sell the conservative cause down the river. To the best of my knowledge, he has never openly said that the Republicans and the Democrats are both working towards the exact same agenda, which in a word, is communism, defined as complete state control over everything.

Rush Limbaugh's treatment of Ron Paul during the election cycle was a major red flag for me,

he threw someone under the bus who has been consistently conservative his entire career.

Allen 2012 was quite correct in asserting that motives are important. They help to determine what is in store down the road.

If one is to conclude that the predicament that the United States is in is due to self-serving politicians, then that is only a partially correct assertion. In some cases I'm sure that is true. But president Obama is still working quite hard to push his agenda as far as he can take it, and yet he can never run for office again.

This is no longer about politics, he has nothing to gain by placating his base.

I will assert one more time:

Every single decision that Pres. Obama has made has been specifically designed to have the worst possible outcome for the United States.

You would think that now that he no longer has an election to win he might back off from his agenda. Instead, by starting a new Mideast war, and defending as legal the actions of the NSA, IRS, the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, he is still working in leaps and bounds to secure the fascist police state of his dreams.

This is no longer about politics, he is a true believer.

He is intentionally destroying America.

Rush Limbaugh is wrong, there are no Republicans attempting to put a stop to this, and attempting to elect more of them will not make any difference.

Urban Roman Mr. Fix
Jun 16, 2013 - 6:07pm

@Mr Fix:

Thanks for taking the time and consideration to reply.

I don't much care for Rush's show, but I listen to a few minutes every now and then just to have some idea. And of course, you are correct -- you'd think that, as a Republican cheerleader he would have been calling for Corzine's head on a pike, along with several others we know so well. But Rush seems to be a wholly owned subsidiary, so he can only speak of sideshow crap like Anthony's Wiener.

You might as well know, I can't stand to look at Huffington Post either. For pretty much the same reasons, not to mention the swarm of popup ads that spring out every time you open the site.

communism, defined as complete state control over everything.

There's where we differ. I do not believe communism is defined that way. For what its worth, Noam Chomsky (frequently denigrated as leftist because he is against war) has said that a true Marxist state would not last more than a year in real life, because Marx had so few clues about real human nature. The so-called communist countries of the cold war were essentially cults of personality, with all the evils that entails. They just liked to talk about communism.

I see our present state as fascist, defined as the complete merger of corporate power with state power.

QE to infinity
Jun 16, 2013 - 7:43pm

@Urban Roman

communism, defined as complete state control over everything.

There's where we differ. I do not believe communism is defined that way. For what its worth, Noam Chomsky (frequently denigrated as leftist because he is against war) has said that a true Marxist state would not last more than a year in real life, because Marx had so few clues about real human nature. The so-called communist countries of the cold war were essentially cults of personality, with all the evils that entails. They just liked to talk about communism.

I see our present state as fascist, defined as the complete merger of corporate power with state power.

You are right about our present states being fascist, not communist. Communism has never in fact existed, and can't - it's a Utopia. Those so-called communist countries were in fact socialist, not communist, they never called themselves communist - they were only building communism - to be achieved some time in the future (that could never really arrive). They were supposed to re-educate everybody who could be re-educated on how to become a communist, and kill all those who could not be re-educated.

Under socialism, there was complete state ownership, not just control, of the means of production, and of almost everything else, apart from small amount of private property, temporarily permitted until communism would arrive. The present TPTB wouldn't want that, as they want to CONTROL everything while amassing and keeping their private fortunes. So it's fascism, not socialism or communism.

Spartacus Rex
Jun 16, 2013 - 8:34pm

@ Xty / Island Shindig

Although "fanny floss" bikini bottoms are not every lass' cup of tea, doesn't mean that a lady still cannot be fashionable on the beach. You could always show up sporting a pair of these:

alan2102 Urban Roman
Jun 16, 2013 - 9:52pm

urban roman - excellent!

I could not have improved on this - not a syllable!

Thanks!

Worth a repeat:

"Mr Fix, your last comment looks like it came straight out of the talking points memo for the Rush Limbaugh Institute of Conspiracy Theory Studies.

Barry's a politician. His constituency has been the minorities and poor, but calling him a Communist just makes you look like an idiot.

I don't think he really has an agenda at all, he hasn't shown much of a penchant for managing anything. He has merely continued the policies of Bush. Which does indeed alienate his base. It is essentially a Corporatist agenda.

I think his economic advisers have told him that they can forestall the inevitable correction, which I have seen coming since at least the late '90s. So he is having Ben print, he is protecting the fraudsters and punishing whistleblowers, and trying to paper over the collapse as long as possible. On the 'security' side, of course, you have the various policies we have been commenting on, attempting to disarm the populace, keep them ignorant, and militarize the police while turning the military inward.

All the while whistling past the graveyard of failed empires. It has all the hallmarks of one of those."

alan2102
Jun 16, 2013 - 9:53pm

one more thing

"I see our present state as fascist, defined as the complete merger of corporate power with state power. "

Yes, with shades of neo-feudalism.

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