Raiding the GLD

313
Fri, Feb 22, 2013 - 12:26pm

Time to broach this subject again.

Just yesterday, the GLD saw a withdrawal of 8.88 metric tonnes. This followed a drawdown of nearly 23 tonnes on Wednesday. In fact, since the start of 2013, the GLD is now down 59.61 metric tonnes or 4.42% of "inventory". 

Hmmm. Now where has that gold gone?

  • Has it simply been returned to the Authorized Participants' vaults as investors reduce their exposure to precious metals?
  • Have GLD investors liquidated shares and taken delivery?
  • Or, as argued back in November, are the APs using the GLD as a store of gold that they can easily access anytime they struggle to find legitimate physical metal to deliver to clients demanding immediate allocation and delivery?
  • If the third bullet is true, then GLD drawdowns would be symptom of very strong, global physical demand.

    So, for your consideration, let's revisit this issue. First, here's a reprint of the points that Andrew Maguire made initially. The full link can be found here: https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/4327/guest-post-price-suppression-mecanics-gld-and-slv-andrew-maguire

    THE PRICE SUPPRESSION MECHANICS OF GLD & SLV

    The bullion banks finance their ‘physical inventory’ by leasing it or selling it to GLD and SLV shareholders/investors, then the bullion banks in turn use these ETF’s inventories as a ‘flywheel’ to both manage and leverage their physical reserves. For this walk-through, I will use GLD as an example. (One can substitute SLV for all that is described below relating to GLD except the basket sizes are smaller, constituting 50,000 shares).

    Baskets of GLD shares are bought and sold through a limited number of Authorised Participants. The authorised participants, (AP’s), are JPMorgan, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Newedge (a joint venture between Société Générale and Credit Agricole CIB), RBC, Scotia Mocatta, UBS and Virtu Financial. This is how it is supposed to work. The size of each GLD basket comprises of 100,000 shares, each share representing just less than 1 troy oz. The AP’s, transfer ALLOCATED physical gold to the trustee who in turn creates the required number of new baskets of shares and then transfers these newly created shares back to the AP. To redeem the shares for physical gold or silver, the AP’s transfer any number of the baskets of 100,000 shares back to the trustee who then redeems these shares and transfers allocated gold back to the AP.

    This is all well and good on the face of it, but there are a number of ways this ‘allocated’ gold backing the shares in the ETF can be diluted /hypothecated in order for the bullion banks to ‘manage’ their physical reserves.

    If, as is often the case, there is insufficient allocated inventory available to the bullion bank at the current Comex driven & discounted spot fix price to create the necessary new GLD shares backed by allocated gold, then it is possible for a bullion bank to borrow short these GLD shares from the ETF instead of providing the required Allocated physical to the trustee to meet this obligation thereby ‘fly wheeling’ this physical demand in order to meet obligations elsewhere, likely at the day’s gold fix. This obviously has the effect of manipulating price lower vs. the true immediate supply demand fundamentals as no allocated physical metal has to be bought on the open market at that days fix to meet this new share demand as should be the case.

    This is now the point where transparency evaporates. The AP claims to be Short GLD while concurrently claiming to be backing it with an equal size long ‘UNALLOCATED’ spot gold position. However, LBMA unallocated gold accounts are run upon a fractional reserve requirement and leveraged around 100/1 so there is very little need to back this transaction with any real physical at this point; this is left until later as explained below. To unwind this short GLD position, the bullion bank has to ALLOCATE the required amount of unallocated gold and then transfer this gold back to the trustee thereby receiving back the required # of shares in order to repay the original GLD shares sold short.

    However, in conjunction with concurrent concentrated short futures positions, the sole object of this entire charade is to assist in depressing the price of gold at times of strong physical demand so that the futures price can be capped, usually at key inflection points where the price would break out and also swamp the very large concentrated Comex short positions. If this were not the case, the bullion bank would simply bid up that days fix price until it reflected that days true supply demand price levels for that fix and provide allocated gold to meet this real demand at that higher price.

    The resulting distortion now created between the real and paper market price is exacerbated through the use of heavy position concentration and leverage in the futures and derivatives markets, where these very same bullion banks then seek to profitably repay the shorted GLD shares at a lower price at the point at or below where the lines cross profitably. This then puts these bullion banks in a position to finally spot index UNALLOCATED gold against this naked short position only then moving to buy the now discounted unallocated gold into the Comex contrived dips. These discounted unallocated long spot index positions are then ALLOCATED at the upcoming fix, enabling both the repayment of the GLD short position at a profit but most importantly controlling the rise in price against much larger derivative positions elsewhere.

    Conversely, as evidenced by the steady 12-year stair step rise in prices easily observed in the daily and weekly charts, despite this many-year capping, we have also seen an ever larger and untenable LBMA unallocated short positions grow to what I now consider to be extreme danger levels. The reason is as follows: When the Bullion bank needs to make good on the unplanned/unanticipated CB and sovereign physical allocations at the fixes, they have regularly achieved this by going long GLD vs. short/selling UNALLOCATED gold. They then immediately turn around and transfer the required number of baskets of GLD shares to the trustee and receive ALLOCATED gold in return. Instead of settling/covering the short UNALLOCATED leg with this ALLOCATED gold, they are forced to satisfy these CB and Sovereign allocations by providing them this metal instead. The longer term price charts reveal this stair step higher, whereas we see no reduction, in fact from 2008 an increase, in the naked short Comex, (and unallocated OTC), bullion bank positions.

    I hope this has been helpful in providing an insight into the internal dynamics of the ETFs and how the bullion banks continue to operate in the shadows.

    Quite a few folks found this explanation a little too technical and slightly confusing. To help the cause, a few days later I took a stab at deciphering Andy's message:

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Finally today, please allow me to take a stab at explaining in greater detail the "Guest Post" from Andrew Maguire. I posted it on Wednesday as we were leaving for Thanksgiving and I can see now where it caused some confusion. As you know, one of my favorite techniques for explanations is the chronological layout so let's give that a try. Additionally, I think I'm laying this out accurately. This is how I understand it. I'll check with Andy on Monday to ensure that this is at least close to being accurate. If it's not, I'll post some additional clarification then.

    1. The "Authorized Participants" have a special relationship with the fund whereby they issue metal, 100,000 ounces at a time, to the fund in exchange for 100,000 share blocks.
    2. This should function as a two-way street where the AP can get its metal back by redeeming shares and the AP can also supply additional metal in exchange for additional shares. THIS, HOWEVER, IS WHERE THE TRICKERY AND MANIPULATION BEGINS.
    3. On big UP days in paper price, there is often a big physical demand in London and a big demand for additional shares in GLD.
    4. This is a double whammy of demand. The Bullion Bank (and Authorized Participant) should have to not only supply metal at the London allocation but this same BB/AP might also have to deliver metal to GLD to cover all of the newly-issued shares.
    5. I think you can see where that's a lot of metal and, in an environment of limited inventories, rapid BB/AP supply depletion would lead to shortages and even higher prices.
    6. So, here's the trick they employ to manage the situation, even doing so at a profit: The GLD delivers the gold back to the AP without the AP actually redeeming their shares. The AP is considered to be "short" the shares, instead.
    7. These shorted shares provide the "offer" against the investment world "bid" for GLD shares that day on the NYSE. Since no new shares are needed to be created that day, no new demand for physical deposit is created, either.
    8. On the other side of this trade, GLD delivers metal to the AP as if it had redeemed the shares, though. The AP uses this metal to settle the physical allocations for that day.
    9. So, where there should have been two, separate demands for physical, the demand was met by short-selling GLD and then using this GLD metal to meet allocations in London.
    10. The effect is then chronicled by Harvey and others as "gold went up $20 but, mysteriously, GLD shed 2.72 tonnes".
    11. Here, then, is how they reverse these "trades" and return everything to where they were. The BB/AP that is short the metal to the GLD needs to put it back in at some point. The next time a paper price raid is effected on the Comex, the AP itself takes delivery of some metal in London.
    12. This metal is then returned to the GLD in exchange for a "covering" of it's short position.
    13. This, typically, takes place on a DOWN day where Harvey et al notice that "though gold declined $15, the GLD added 2.72 tonnes of metal today. Go figure."

    Anyway, I hope this helps explain the process. Again, the Bullion Bank that is also an AP of the GLD can "flywheel" metal into and out of the GLD and/or SLV anytime they need to in order to meet physical demand elsewhere. In the process, the BB/AP conveniently provides liquidity for GLD/SLV share demand, which negates additional GLD purchasing which would have otherwise been necessary. It's a true WIN-WIN-WIN for the BB/AP as they are able to cap and control price while appearing to have no problem meeting London demand and then they turn around and cover all the positions at a profit on the next bout of price weakness.

    Again, THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HOW IT WORKS. The banks are supposed to supply metal to both the GLD and the London buyers. There is not, however, sufficient supply to make this happen at the current price levels. So, instead of allowing price to rise to the natural equilibrium of buying and selling interest, the BB/AP uses the tricks outlined in Andy's guest post to manage and cap the situation. On the bright side, THIS CANNOT CONTINUE FOREVER and, WHEN it fails, the reset in price will be spectacular to behold.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    By the time the next week rolled around, there was an active discussion on the internet regarding the accuracy of this analysis. (No doubt this post will reinitiate the "discussion" and bring out many of the same commentators.) Here's a link to the follow-up discussion, posted a few days later. Before you form an opinion on the matter, you'll definitely want to read both sides of the issue: https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/4354/cage-match-bron-vs-denver-dave

    So there you have it. All of this should all make a very interesting reading assignment for you as we wait for today's GLD numbers. Could there be another huge drawdown? If so, what does it mean? Does it even matter? I look forward to reading your comments.

    TF

    p.s. Andy just recorded this morning another interview with KWN. Be sure to check that site later today for the full interview.

    About the Author

    Founder
    turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()

      313 Comments

    Mr. Fix · Feb 22, 2013 - 10:50pm

    Kcap:

     I do give it a lot of thought to this subject, and I tend to learn new things every day.

     If the people who you call “trolls” are supporting me, that is their business, but upon checking,

     it would appear that the vast majority of the people involved in this discussion are both long time members, and very knowledgeable on the subject.

     Even when opinions differ vastly, they are still coming from an educated perspective.

     By the way, I wrote a very long and supportive reply to one of your posts a few hours ago, but for some reason, when I hit the save button, the site went down, and it was lost forever.

     It took an hour for the site to come back up, and I completely forgot what I was talking about by then.

     It's enough to say that I respect your opinion. 

    Kcap · Feb 22, 2013 - 11:02pm

    @fix

    Thanks and sorry to hear the post was lost. I feel badly as I would have enjoyed reading it.

    I saw some noob trolls who were supporting your idea of the CoT not meaning anything...

    Listen, I truly understand how unbelievably frustrating this must be, holding like this during severe Cartel beatdowns....and to hear people like me and Turd and everyone touting a bullish CoT....but, you must understand....this is indeed a setup. But, this time its not what we're all used to. So instead of blowing sunshine up yours and everyone else's bums around here, lets just say, pay close attention to the next CoT and what happens after Tuesday midday next week....the net neutral+ goal of the Cartel is getting close. Its game over shorts and hi ho silver then. 

    All the best,

    Kcap

    ¤ · Feb 22, 2013 - 11:06pm

    A brief history of US Debt: Ugly

    SCHILLER: A history of the national debt

    Congress is not good at not spending

    Alexander Hamilton, America’s first secretary of the Treasury, issued the first U.S. Treasury bonds on Sept. 18, 1789. The Continental Congress had borrowed money from overseas to help finance the Revolutionary War and could not pay back its loans. It defaulted on maturing debt in 1786 and couldn’t pay the 625 soldiers of the U.S. Army in 1787. By the time the Constitution went into effect on March 4, 1789, the United States owed $75 million.

    That debt would be roughly $900 billion in today’s dollars and was 30 percent of gross domestic product in 1789. Hamilton instructed the Treasury to borrow $19,608.81 from the only two banks in the country at that time (the Bank of New York and the Bank of North America) to pay interest on the new nation’s debt. Repayment of the bonds was secured by revenue from the 8 percent import tariff that Congress had enacted.

    So began the long, steep ascent to today’s $16.5 trillion national debt (on which the Treasury pays $19,608.81 in interest every two seconds). The national debt now exceeds 100 percent of GDP and is growing by roughly $3 billion a day. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects a $20 trillion debt 10 years from now.

    George Washington warned about the dangers of debt in his Farewell Address (1796), admonishing “the people of the United States to avoid the accumulation of debt.” Forty years later (1835) was the only debt-free year in America’s history. By the time President Clinton gave his final State of the Union address on Jan. 27, 2000, America’s national debt was $5.5 trillion.

    Uncle Sam spends more money every year than he takes in. The resulting budget deficits are financed by issuing more Treasury bonds (IOUs), adding to the pile of debt. Annual deficits balloon when wars or recessions cause spending to surge and/or tax revenues to decline. Deficit spending makes debt reduction impossible. Opinion polls suggest Americans want government to stop the deficit spending, so Washington is now fixated on deficit reduction. The CBO says the current debt trajectory will shave 1.7 percent off GDP by 2022.

    The U.S. Senate hasn’t passed a budget in four years. Congress sidesteps fiscal responsibilities by passing continuing resolutions that provide “temporary” and “emergency” funding for Uncle Sam. Without those budget Band-Aids, the government would have to shut down, as it did on 17 occasions from 1976 to 1996. The longest (21-day) shutdown was sparked by Mr. Clinton’s veto of a balanced budget that the Republican-led Congress passed in December 1995. That shutdown furloughed 800,000 federal workers, delayed passport and visa processing and closed national museums, monuments and parks.

    Recognizing its inability to attain deficit reduction through the annual budget process, Congress created mechanisms of budget enforcement that would compel deficit reduction while providing political cover for the resulting spending cuts. The Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Act of 1985 stipulated a six-year schedule of declining deficit ceilings, culminating in a balanced budget in 1991. Congress never kept deficits under those statutory ceilings.

    Federal tax revenues and spending are impacted automatically when the economy grows or contracts. In 1990, Congress amended Gramm-Rudman-Hollings to focus on spending caps rather than deficits. Limits were set on discretionary spending for future years. Those caps were routinely ignored.

    The Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 also introduced the “pay-as-you-go” budget constraint, which requires Congress to offset any spending or tax cuts with matching outlay cuts or tax hikes. This constraint is a convenient argument for both political parties to resist budget initiatives of the other party and can be set aside at Congress‘ whim.

    In 1985, Congress established sequestration. If Congress breached its own statutory deficit ceilings or spending caps, the budget would be subjected to automatic spending cuts. Sequestration impacts defense and other discretionary programs, as virtually all mandatory outlays such as Social Security are exempted. From 1986 to 1991, five sequestrations were triggered; all but one (1986) were rescinded. That one briefly cut $11.7 billion out of the defense and non-defense discretionary programs. This time, the expected sequestration is more than $1 trillion.

    Another mechanism of budget enforcement is the debt ceiling. Persistent budget deficits keep pushing the debt against that limit, which means Congress either must raise the debt ceiling or shut down the government. It always raises the debt ceiling. It has done so 77 times since 1962.

    The ultimate budget enforcement mechanism is a constitutional amendment that forbids deficit spending. Economists warn that such a budget straitjacket is unenforceable and potentially disastrous.....(cont.)

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/19/a-history-of-the-nation...

    wildstylechef · Feb 22, 2013 - 11:09pm

    Late Friday Humor: Quantitative Easing Simplified

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-22/late-friday-humor-quantitative-easing-simplified

    you should use this in one of your postings it is so true and precise it’s hilarious

    I mean all the BS and cover that is going on about what is driving the economy and gold

    Gold does not increase

    fiat currency deflates

    when people understand that then this BS about gold is out of favor and will lose value because there is not and will not be any inflation. ( as in the only type of inflation is in a high growth market when items are in a shortage supply and high demand)

    Well there will be the inflation of gold price because the fiat currencies will deflate/ lose value/diluted/of lessor value.

    Oh wait that is the definition of inflation?!

    inflation

    Use Inflation in a sentence

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    in·fla·tion

    [in-fley-shuhhttps://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttps://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn] Show IPA

    noun

    1.

    Economics . a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency ( opposed to deflation ).

    2.

    the act of inflating.

    3.

    the state of being inflated.

    DayStar · Feb 22, 2013 - 11:13pm

    RE: JPM Comex Shorts

    Mr. Fix, you and I have wondered a long time how JPM will ever get out of its massive PM short position. They may not, but I think they will be hedged by going short on the European, Japanese and UST bonds. Since they will know the score and timing on the bond crash, they will make multiple trillions more on the bond crash than they will lose on the "small" (relative to their massive bond position) metals markets. No doubt they will try to minimize their losses on G & S, but they will make so much money on the collapse of the world's bond markets that the metal losses will be penny ante. They may play the derivatives game by being on both sides and net pretty much zero. If they can manage the asymmetric aspects of the collapse, the derivatives may not hurt them much. The small guys like Birmingham Muni will be slaughtered, because they are only on one side of the derivatives, and they are net "dead".

    Just sayin',

    DayStar

    sideshow03 · Feb 22, 2013 - 11:41pm

    @Turd & @Fix

    Thanks for bringing up the subject Fix and thanks for the explanation Turd.

    I think sometimes the people in this forum forget that not everyone knows the ins and outs of things like the COTs and so forth. What may appear obvious to some may not be to others. Sometimes things need to be laid out "in plain english".

    Wanting/needing an explanation or a discussion on a subject is never a bad thing.....nor does it make anyone a "troll"....at least not by itself. Its these discussions that help some sleep at night, hang on to their positions and feel comfortable enough to spread the word. 

    The "cheerleaders" are nice to look at but dont win the game....its the warriors on the field that make a difference. Without opposition (trolls) or tough questions, the answers wouldnt be so exciting....and ultimately, satisfying. 

    Sometimes its great for the opposition to test your quarterback and make things hard....it sends the message to the team that the right guy is in charge and will ultimately win you the big game. 

    Keep asking the hard questions Fix and make more of a point to answer the "stupid questions" Turd....just like Religion, blind faith isnt healthy.

    Sheetrocker · Feb 22, 2013 - 11:45pm

    RE:Counterfeit Coins

    I really think everyone should take a look at this link originally posted by Nick Elway.

    https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=64234

    I found this link there.

    https://www.coincommunity.com/reference/?target=https://coins.about.com/...

    Which leads to this.

    https://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Chi...

    Chinese Fake Morgan Dollars

    I will definitely be looking closer at any coins I buy in the future. I would think the major dealers would be pretty safe, but will be super wary of buying from individuals or small LCS. Imagine how this could increase if silver hit $100.

    pforth · Feb 23, 2013 - 12:06am

    Feeling a little bullish again

    Look at this:

    • Lower commercial net short ratio
    • Option expiry danger zone finishing
    • Downside Support between 26 and 28
    • and finally the little FUBM at the end of the day today.

    I'm cautiously optimistic that next week we are going to see some strength again.

    Nigel Black · Feb 23, 2013 - 12:26am

    Andrew Maguire on KWN

    I know many of you are not fans of KWN, but this is a really good interview with Andrew Maguire. It covers a lot of what has been discussed in this thread:

    https://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/2/23_M...$24_Premiums_For_Gold_In_Shanghai.html

    Lady Gaugau ¤ · Feb 23, 2013 - 12:44am

    What?

     After all, the goal is ALWAYS to “buy high” and “sell low,” isn’t it? Actually, that’s a trick question, as “buy high/sell low” only pertains to investments – NOT savings. Given that PHYSICAL gold and silver represent REAL MONEY, they should decidedly be classified as the latter.

    Buy high/sell low? Really? Shouldn't that be buy low/sell high?

    Urban Roman · Feb 23, 2013 - 12:52am

    Another data point

    Confirming either a shortage or an explosion in popularity of Ag. 

    Colorado Gold is now quoting a 30-day delay in delivery of its A-Mark standard rounds. 
    30

    kingboo · Feb 23, 2013 - 1:03am

    @Daystar.........

    ..........NET DEAD!.......lol! mind if i use that one?........lol, don't worry i will credit you......wink

    onealpha · Feb 23, 2013 - 1:46am

    Got me some Foreign

    Got me some Foreign Fractionals

    Soveriegns $391 Free Shipping & no CC Fees

    https://www.silvertowne.com/p-22309-british-gold-sovereign-date-our-choi...

    rtabit · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:04am

    @Mr. Fix

    "One does have to wonder why the specs keep getting the short end of the stick. My theory, is that they're all the same people, and they're all just as twisted as hell." I think Turd used to be one of those large specs, you may be on to something, I never trusted that guy, something to do with that big yellow hat he's always wearing, if that hat doesn't say I'm twisted as hell I don't know what does.

    Jasper Lady Gaugau · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:07am

    @ Lady Gaugau

    Thats how it works for me; "buy high/sell low" and make up the difference in volume! cheeky

    Adolf_Hitler · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:14am

    2 Questions

    I have 2 questions for Turd and maybe Andy if Turd can have the opportunity to ask him.

    1. Andy claims that Bullion Banks can short borrow GLD shares from GLD while pledging unallocated gold as the collateral for the short borrowing. However, I can't find in the prospectus of the GLD that GLD allows such activities. Where can I find the documentation or is it simply a market convention with NO documentation?

    2. The London Gold fixing process is quite murky based on the available public information. I just want to know that in the fixing process, all the buy and sell orders must be orders for allocated accounts or orders for unallocated accounts are also allowed in the fixing process?

    Many thanks.

    Jasper · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:21am

    Why a hedge fund would take a loss?

    Turd is bang on; they are chasing dots on a screen. They are robotic trading, chasing numbers inside black boxes. They are bad-ass honey badgers and they don't give a shit! 

    The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall)

    They don't know why they do it; the quants have simply programmed them to, so they just do it. Gold and Silver are only a very small part of what they do. Over all, their black box number based trading (chasing little dots on a screen) works great.

    So JPM knows this and paints the charts so the black boxes switch to shorting gold. The black box doesn't care if its gold, silver or widgets. Then JPM transfers all their toxic shorts to the stupid bots.

    rtabit · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:29am

    @Kcap

    "But, this time its not what we're all used to. So instead of blowing sunshine up yours and everyone else's bums around here, lets just say, pay close attention to the next CoT and what happens after Tuesday midday next week....the net neutral+ goal of the Cartel is getting close. Its game over shorts and hi ho silver then."

    Why is this time not what we are used to, looks pretty much the same to me? I don't think next weeks COT will be all that important, and pretty predictable so far. What is much more important, and the true signal that this time it's different, is as we climb back to 1800, are the commercials piling the shorts back on. I thought during last summer that this time it's different and focused on the low price pivot COT data, but you won't get your real answer until you analyze COT data around resistance. Remember how everyone was calling a top around 1800 because of the COT, if that happens again than this time it isn't different. I agree, deciphering the CoT, analyzing it and forecasting from it is great fun. EDIT: What is the March call you are talking about and when was it made? I know it's Sinclair, but not what it is.
    Occasnltrvlr onealpha · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:36am

    @onealpha, Re: "Got me some Foreign"

    Thanks for this tip. I very recently placed an order for some British Sovereigns, I mean, after all, Apu at the Qwik-E-Mart is going to recognize this coin. (And really, is there anyone out there who doesn't want to pull a string of 25 sovereigns out of their briefcase?)

    Video unavailable
    Dharibaba · Feb 23, 2013 - 4:41am

    Last few death cross have been actually bullish except 2008

    Courtesy Gotgoldreport

    Gold death cross on chart: and the rise has been pretty fast since the death cross

    20130220 gold Death Cross History

    Silver death cross on chart:

    20130220 silver Death Cross History

    Hammer · Feb 23, 2013 - 5:56am

    Posted this a million times

    Posted this a million times before and here it is again for those late to it. From 2010.

    Quants - The Alchemists of Wall Street - Docu - 2010
    ltcolkilgore · Feb 23, 2013 - 6:59am

    Thanks Elway, Mack, sheetrocker...

    I read the article on Chinese counterfeit coins as well, looks like they were (and probably still are) chasing numismatic premium coins for the most part, even using fake PCGS holders. I had heard on a radio broadcast a few years ago on how a container of these fakes were caught in customs but have never seen an article on it. I still believe 90% junk is the way to go for now... I use a LCS for all of my purchases and they have no problem letting me push back on coins I think are too worn, etc. I generally stick with Franklin and Kennedy halves, Washington quarters, and Roosevelt dimes since there are fewer key dates in these series making them less susceptible to counterfeiting, they also generally have less wear. I no longer buy slabbed coins and I will not buy from anyone on Ebay due to my concerns...

    $22 Morgan and Peace dollars would make me very suspicious as they generally sell for a much higher premium, my LCS was selling them for $35 each (Ebay dollars were $40+ at the time) when spot was $31... that gave them a melt value of $24. As usual - Caveat emptor! BTW - Morgans don't rust...

    Hammer · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:01am

    James Bond always had a

    James Bond always had a secret compartment with 50 sovereigns in it for emergencies. Take that for what it is worth.

    From Russia with Love. Gotta love James Bond :) and especially Sean Connery :)

    First Appearance of Desmond Llewelyn as Q - From Russia With Love HD

    This film was made in 1963 so if you want to see how much 50 gold sovs were worth then then here is a chart for UK wages in manufacturing vs oz of gold in 1963

    https://gold.approximity.com/UK_wages_manufacturing_since1963.pdf

    or just a straight up ole fashion chart

    https://www.sharelynx.com/chartstemp/free/freelongtermCPIAU1700log.php

    Peoples Front of Judea · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:20am

    GOLD CONFISCATION????

    I have just read this on Jim Sinclairs site 

    Americans are being banned from storing gold abroad in Switzerland

    Are we looking at a gold confiscation down the road? (sorry if this has already been posted)

    https://www.businessinsider.com/red-alert-worlds-biggest-gold-storage-company-dumps-us-citizens-2013-2

    boatman · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:28am

    inflation alert

    my beer gauge is back up to its alltime high...........something it hit a year ago and then backed off .50$

    but even here in north florida houses are not reflating..........prices are flat.

    they are building APARTMENTS............money is cheap...............hard to get a house loan.

    but they will finance anyone BREATHING on a new vehicle AGAIN.

    Fade2Black · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:31am

    Come and take it

    Video unavailable
    atomic180 · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:50am

    Logging in to Harvey'scomments section...

    Can't access... I know Harvey (to foil monkeyboy and the trolls) his comments section what's the easiest way in/on. 

    TomMack · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:52am

    ltcolkilgore

    yeah it is the numismatic coins that get faked a lot, although we have seen some 1oz rounds and some maples(?) too. if it's too good to be true etc....... 90% is what i have been trying to stack the last few years but financial situation has made less of a strong hand and more of a weak one. 

    Motley Fool · Feb 23, 2013 - 7:59am

    I wonder...

    how much gold (and silver I suppose) this community buys up.

    Looking at the amount of reads per post, one can say this community is perhaps 30,000 strong (unsure if those are unique views).

    There is about 31500 ounces of gold in a tonne. So if every member here on average bought an ounce of gold per month, that would amount to a tonne a month, or 12 tonnes over the year.

    Mining supply per year is perhaps 2500? tonnes, and then there is scrap, and resales.

    Idk. We know that most people do not even think about such things.

    In the bigger scheme of things it would seem, even when one is being generous, that this whole community has very little impact on the gold market while most people have none.

    The combined masses do seem insignificant, when thinking of bullshit such as $85 billion per month printed by the FED. In gold terms that's about 1710 tonnes per month...and that's just one central bank.

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