A Miner Case of Depression

Wed, Jan 9, 2013 - 1:23pm

Avert your eyes, if necessary. This is not for the faint of heart.

I figured that today would be a good day to check in on some of our favorite miners again. 2012 was a rough year for many of the companies in the sector and the charts below tell the tale. A couple of items to note:

  • I've used 2-year charts because so much of the fun in the metals began two years ago and 5-year charts contain all the shenanigans of 2008, which simply distorts total returns.
  • Note that, for most equities, a major disconnect occurred at the silver price peak of May 2011.
  • I compared the GLD and the SLV to the S&P.
  • For the miners, though, I compared them to either the GLD or the SLV, in order to gauge performance relative to the actual metal. Not that GLD or SLV are actual metal, mind you. The simply serve as a proxy for price on these charts.
  • The candlesticks are the shares themselves. The lines are the comparisons, either S&P, GLD or SLV.
  • I chose these stocks because we've mentioned/followed them before here at TFMR. Feel free to post your own charts in the comments if you feel I've left out a few.

Let's start with GLD and SLV. Since 1/1/11, gold is slightly ahead of the S&P but silver is slightly behind.

The old question is: Do you want the good news first or the bad news? In this case, do you want to see the winners first or the losers? Hmmm...I don't know. Let's start with the losers...those stocks that, for the past two years, have horribly underperformed versus physical metal. First, here's the HUI (Amex Gold Bugs Index). As you can see, the index tracked physical pretty closely through the first four months of 2011 and then it went straight to hell in a handbasket.

And look at these nasty, little devils. MrT pities the fool that be stuck owning these.

Perhaps you thought it would be "safe" to "diversify" into an ETF like the "GDXJ"? Nope.

Or maybe a nice, open-ended fund (so that your advisor cold make a commission - hey, he's gotta eat, too.) Uhhh...not so much.

So, are there any stocks that are, at least, tracking along with physical? Well, there's CDE. Sometimes it beats SLV, sometimes it doesn't but, in the end, it's been hanging in there.

And Silver Wheaton has been tracking silver pretty closely, about as you would expect.

And Randgold is fun. It tends to outperform bullion when price is rising and underperform when price is falling. For equity options players, this is a good one to follow and trade.

So that's all the bad news. How about the good news? I found two actual winners!! Two stocks that have actually outperformed physical metal over the past two years. One junior gold miner and one junior silver. Remember, though, that past performance is definitely not a predictor of future returns. Caution is always warranted.

So, what's the point of all this? Why even jack around with these damn things? Just buy physical metal, take delivery and forget about it. And don't tell me about your IRA. There are plenty of companies out there that can help you to buy bullion within that thing, too.

Stack, stack, stack and BTFD. Your only winning move.


About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


Jan 9, 2013 - 7:28pm

Another Gold Article

if this has been posted before, my apologies

good read



Mantis Ned Braden
Jan 9, 2013 - 7:40pm

Harry Reid

he sounds like a legend. I can't believe my personal journey has led me to side with the powerful gun lobby of the USA but I unequivocally do. In the days where i used to feel tht the GOVERNMENT WAS THERE TO PROTECT ME I opposed the gun laws in the USA. However my journey into truth has forced me to advocate guns to protect the ammendment

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness"

This is a warning though, 'The parasites that be' are aiming for a civil war in the USA, they want it, war and debt is what they do best. Do you think your handguns will be a match for their military might and drones?

Jan 9, 2013 - 7:50pm

IRAs etc

The self directed iras are pretty good,

one other issue if the govt sticks its fingers into IRAs is that people can take distributions, which if done widespread would create huge tax revenue for govt, albeit one time per taxpayer. The govt may try this angle too.

another thing forgotten when people talk about hew Clinton surplu, that really was not a surplus, was the y2k spending in 1999, which jammed up tech revenues and profits, and then disappeared in 2000 thru at least 2003!

So companies paid taxes for year 1999 and then investors took profits from nasdaq run up which was y2k induced, kind of like cash for clunkers which pulled forward demand.

the masses never understood that the Clinton surplus was not ther to begin with and then all the pull forward of demand.

also in1999 the fed pumped a ton of liquidity into system just in case there was a y2k problem, and then took it back mid 2000 leaving the next president holding the bag.

all part of the dc and fed bs fed to us regularly.

Silver Spurs Urban Roman
Jan 9, 2013 - 7:52pm

Urban Roman

Rule of law ..... down the slippery slope, speeding faster and faster .....more gov't regulations, more bs from polititians (all in the name of safety, of course).

Jan 9, 2013 - 7:54pm

Silver in the iMac

I'm not an Apple fan, so no bias here. If the iMac uses an LCD screen, then there probably isn't much silver in it except for solder in the circuit boards (silver-tin has replaced lead in most instances). LCD screens use some LEDs, a bunch of plastic light diffusers, some plates of glass patterned with Indium-Tin Oxide (transparent electrodes), and some wierd chemicals and films..

On the other hand, the new OLED screens use a new technology is printing silver nono-wires instead of patterning the ITO. I don't think a lot of silver is used in this process (a few grams per screen). 27" is pushing the limits of OLED technology, if that's what they are using. My guess is they had some lifetime issues, and are putting some new screens through accelerated life testing, which would take months for something that is supposed to last 5-10 years.

Another theory. Remember last years' floods in Thailand? The factories that made 90% of the world's disk-drive motors were located in one flood plain. That led to the HDD shortage of last year.

Dyna mo hum
Jan 9, 2013 - 8:04pm


May your learning cycle be long and fruitful. Cheers!

Jan 9, 2013 - 8:11pm

Worth Reading

I just came from Harvey's blog ... 3 interesting things worth reading ..

1) Pension money invested in bullion is 'peanuts' at the moment...If 1 percent of their total assets shift to the metal, the gold market would explode. - Itsuo Toshima, advisor to Japanese pension funds (Bloomberg)

2) Coin dealer delayed in getting many pm coins

3) China gold

Mr. Fix
Jan 9, 2013 - 8:15pm

Reply to Mantis

You asked:

"Do you think your handguns will be a match for their military might and drones?"

I would propose that that may not be the relevant question here.

The United States military is sworn to uphold the Constitution, and to protect America from its enemies both foreign and domestic.

The politicians have obviously thrown the Constitution down the toilet, and flushed it. To them, it is a completely meaningless historical relic with no modern-day relevance whatsoever.

The vast majority of the military do not feel the same way.

There is a society called “The Oath Keepers” who have contacted nearly all military members both past and present,

and the vast majority of current law enforcement personnel. Many of them have also renewed their pledge to defend the Constitution, and will not move to remove guns from the citizens.

Obama is going to have to use his goons from the DHS, TSA, and hire mercenaries from abroad, combined with the United Nations “peacekeepers”.

The first round may very well be between all of these alphabet entities against very well armed and trained past and present military.

The trigger for this battle could well be an executive order demanding, confiscation.

I plan on sitting out the first round, and let the big boys fight it out, but if it comes down to it,

I'm up for a little bit of guerrilla trench warfare.

There's nothing to lose, I figure that Obama and company will use a scorched earth policy,

and if his forces are not defeated quickly, there really won't be much to defend anymore.

Obama's not going to wait until the end of his term to do this, he does not have to.

DHS is currently training many new members, and should complete the training in 30 to 45 days.

They will then I'll be issued their 1 1/2 billion rounds of armor piercing or hollowpoint bullets,

and then the rumble will begin.

Regardless of who wins, millions will die.

If it's not from bullets, it will be from starvation.

As soon as my wife is finished dinner, will be talking about moving to Luxembourg.

Sounds nicer there.

Jan 9, 2013 - 8:20pm

That's REALLY interesting

Thank you for posting that info!

Jan 9, 2013 - 8:24pm

Great reply Mr. Fix

Stewart Rhodes, head of oathkeepers was on the Ernest Hancock show today.

Great discussion about the very topic.


ancientmoney Mr. Fix
Jan 9, 2013 - 8:45pm

@Mr. Fix, Mantis

There are so many strange occurrences the last couple years or so, the whole scene is flabbergasting if you step back and look at it with fresh eyes.

The Executive Orders to remove habeus corpus. Obama taking control of all the states' National guards. Making local militia illegal. Building camps for no reason. Ordering millions and billions of rounds of ammo for such things as SSA offices.

The destruction of Libya and stealing of their gold. The upside-down laws to protect JPM when stealing clients' silver ala MFG. The 5 year CFTC investigation. The $17 trillion given to TBTF banks.

The military was supposedly close to pulling a coup toward the end of last year, after the Benghazi fubar. The reason several top-ranking admirals and generals were ousted was because they were implicated in the group planning the coup. I guess they weren't charged, I suppose because that would bring attention to the fact that a coup could even happen in the USA.

Why a coup? Are military leaders fed up with the Emperor? Do they fear having to make a choice between the people and elite? Are they beholden to another country?

Several of the SEALs that supposedly killed Bin Laden were killed in a helicopter crash (what are the odds???), and another recently committed "suicide."

A "lone gunman" who was a military member killed several other military people last year. Another "lone gunman", who was a military veteran killed several Sikhs at a temple last fall. A "lone gunman" killed several people in a theatre last summer. A "lone gunman" killed a couple classrooms full of children a few weeks ago.

In the last three shootings above, eye witnesses reported other people at the scene, some reported as shooters. That testimony was washed out of the reports now known to the public. Some think a quasi-governmental task force is behind these shootings, to galvanize Americans for gun control. I have no doubt. All these shootings have a bad stink about them. All too contrived, too quickly shut-down, with no interviews of loved ones, etc. All kinds of contradictory evidence washed out later as the media was told by authorities what the meme was to be.

As soon as many of these incidents took place, the govy was right there within a few days with legal documents ready to go.

It seems to be similar to the relatively slow changes that took place in Nazi Germany, though I am not an expert on that page of history. The people just keep looking past all the crazy shit, and try to live their lives.

It is sites like this one, and others like it that provide hope. Anyone here who has a family member or friend in the police or military, I sincerely hope and encourage you make them familiar with TFMR and other similar sites. We will need them on our side.

Jan 9, 2013 - 8:54pm

more anecdotal evidence

Bullion Delays Get Longer
By Patrick A. Heller
January 07, 2013
Since the last time I reported the occurrence of slower deliveries of some bullion-priced gold and silver coins and ingots, supplies have gotten even tighter. As a result, even more premiums are inching upward.

On Monday morning, here is what one major wholesaler was reporting for delayed availability: In gold coins and bars: Half-ounce and tenth-ounce American Eagles, 1-ounce Buffaloes, Canadian Maple Leaves, South African 1 ounce Krugerrands, kilogram-sized gold bars, British sovereigns, Swiss and French 20 francs, Austrian 100 coronas, Mexican 50 pesos and Australian Kangaroos.

In silver coins and bars: U.S. silver American Eagles of all dates, Canadian silver Maple Leaves, 1 ounce Engelhard rounds and rectangles, 10-ounce Engelhard or Johnson Matthey bars, 100- ounce bars of any manufacturer and U.S. 90 percent silver coins.

If you look at the list of what is no longer available for immediate or short-delay delivery against the products that can still be acquired fast, there is one general rule: Products for sale at lower premiums above metal value tend to be in the shortest supply. Higher premium gold coins such as the U.S. gold American Eagles, Austrian Philharmonics and 2013-dated Chinese Pandas are still obtainable with no or minimal delays.
This past week we finally received a multi-hundred coin order of Austrian 100 coronas after a four-week delay. Future orders of this low-premium gold coin will take even longer for delivery.

Perhaps the most notable premium increase is in earlier-dated U.S. silver American Eagles The 1996-dated coins, the lowest mintage year, were already trading at premium prices. Now other dates such as 1986 and 1994-dated coins have developed significant premiums. The primary distributors have apparently already sold out this week’s first release of silver Eagles. Those now wanting to make a purchase may have to wait until the next release to take delivery.

In the first three trading days of 2013, Jan. 2-4, my company’s bullion sales exceeded the company’s total sales for the year 1982. Since gold and silver prices are only three to four times what they were back in 1982, obviously we are selling a far greater quantity of ounces of precious metals. I have heard similar stories of unusually high trading volume from other major bullion retailers.

The last time we saw such a strong surge in demand for physical precious metals was in late 2008. At that time, premiums rose significantly. At the peak, customers were paying 35-45 percent above melt for slightly delayed U.S. 90 percent silver coin because delivery of bars was two to four months delayed. Supplies of bullion-priced gold coins and bars were so tight that buyers jumped to purchase circulated common-date U.S. $10 and $20 gold pieces. It is not out of the question that we could see a return of such frenzied buying within the next few months.

Patrick A. Heller is the American Numismatic Association 2012 Harry Forman Numismatic Dealer of the Year Award winner. He owns Liberty Coin Service in Lansing, Mich., and writes “Liberty’s Outlook,” a monthly newsletter on rare coins and precious metals subjects. Past newsletter issues can be viewed at https://www.libertycoinservice.com. Other commentaries are available at Coin Week (https://www.coinweek.com and https://www.coininfo.com). He also writes a bi-monthly column on collectibles for The Greater Lansing Business Monthly (https://www.lansingbusinessmonthly.com/articles/department-columns).His radio show “Things You ‘Know’ That Just Aren’t So, And Important News You Need To Know” can be heard at 8:45 a.m. Wednesday and Friday mornings on 1320-AM WILS in Lansing (which streams live and becomes part of the audio and text archives posted athttps://www.1320wils.com.
Jan 9, 2013 - 8:54pm

Remember ZH 2011 Jan Article


Other articles talking about lines around the coin store on ZH at the same time.

Dont fall for the gun/silver mania.

You guys should really read TF's old post on the same time frame as well.


blythe_mastersJanuary 13, 2011 3:54 PM

Turd, darling, I do apologize so for for the damage to your posterior regions today. But I really must insist that I have given you more than fair warning that this is my sandbox and that there is a price to pay for playing in Blythe's sandbox. I am more than happy to take your money, Turd, but it does cause me a slight twitch of guilt to watch you commoners piddle away your hard earned money gambling in my house.

Blythe suggests that you and all the other minions should read the Chris Martenson post referenced earlier on this board and on Zerohedge. You would do well to read his earlier post (The Sound of One Hand Clapping) also. As Chris notes, we make the rules to suit our ends and if the rules don't suit our ends then we change them. This is our casino. We let you play and perhaps win a hand or two, but we will not lose the game, Turd. The CFTC hearing was lovely to watch, wasn't it?

Again, it does pain me so to receive so much hostility from you and your rabblerousers out here on these chatting boards. Especially when, for those of you buying physical, I remain the best benefactor you've ever had.

We shall see what tomorrow brings, Turd.



Jan 9, 2013 - 8:54pm

@HiHo_Silver: I think people are misreading that

I agreed with this feedback on that article.

"as authorities would have names, addresses and amounts of gold and silver held by private citizens."

I didn't read it that way. It seems to me this is aimed at the "We Buy Gold" folks. It says "that a person who is in the business* of purchasing precious metal shall obtain a proof of ownership... "

To me, this is an attempt to find a way to tax the sale and prevent people from turning gold/silver into cash under the radar.

I could be wrong, though. I have been before.

*emphasis added.

Jan 9, 2013 - 8:59pm
Jan 9, 2013 - 9:02pm

@ancientmoney: Looper

I have a copy--I love Usenet--I haven't watched it yet. I hope to get around to it this weekend. I'll let you know what I think then.

Jan 9, 2013 - 9:04pm

Hey, thanks for linking that Johnny...

...I just knew that you'd prove yourself useful eventually.

Anyway, regarding Jan 2011 ASE sales....certainly preceded the last huge runup in paper price. Maybe a direct connection, maybe not, but there sure is a lot of anecdotal evidence of silver shortage these days, regardless of how the massive DeltaBravo Christian cares to spin it.

ancientmoney Puck Smith
Jan 9, 2013 - 9:10pm

@Puck . . .

Thanks. I rarely go to movies, but saw Lincoln a few weeks ago. Pretty good, I thought. Looper links the future, silver, gold and China, according to the brief synopsis someone posted earlier, from Bro. John.

If you say its worth it, I'll go!

ancientmoney TF
Jan 9, 2013 - 9:23pm

@Turd re: Kingworld Brambrough interview . . .

My earlier post wherein I spoke of all the strange incidents these past few years . . . all of what Brambrough said is known to the PTB.

They are simply preparing for the day Brambrough's expectation becomes reality. ThePTB/elite don't care if a handful of people lose their lives in little shootings here and there, if they can eliminate their opposition--the people who will come for revenge, and food for their families.

There likely will be civil war, or more likely, chaos when his prediction comes to fruition.

Jan 9, 2013 - 9:29pm

Podcast links!

I've become a huge fan of podcasts over the last couple years when I got a cool phone (via my company) that I could download podcasts to in mp3 format and listen to anywhere I wanted. Mostly during my morning and evening commute, and at night when I get home. Hell, I even listen to them when I'm making dinner, exercising, or taking a shower...well you get the idear. haha

Podcasts (as well as internet in general, i.e. TFMR, have virtually replaced most TV and radio for me because I now download from so many sources and I listen to them all the time.

I've seen 2 posts tonight of 2 new podcast sites that I wasn't aware of which is great because I'm always searching for new sources of great podcast information.

One from earlier was a site called https://crawlingroad.com/blog/ and the other was https://www.freedomsphoenix.com

Thanks to those who posted them!!!

Got me thinking though...I'm not sure if there is a forum room regarding great podcast sites that are relevant to Turdville-type subjects, i.e. precious metals, economics, politics, prepping, or NWO conspiracy-type stuff. So if there is a forum area already established, my apologies, and please point it out for me cuz I've missed it!

But if there isn't then I'd like to share the ones I frequent and maybe we can compile a larger source list and create a forum area for good podcast links.

Here are my mainstays which many of you may already know of: No particular order (other than TFMR, and I must also state that I only use the free sites...I just can't put extra fiat into pay sites at this time (sorry for that, Big T)

https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/podcast - The Big Guy - gotta love those Golden Jackass interviews!!! Keep 'em coming!!!

https://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Broadcast.htmlhttps://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Broadcast.html - Eric King - great weekly guests, Celente, Norcini, Turk, Rule, Embry, Sprott, Farage, etc.

https://xml.nfowars.net/Alex.rss - Alex Jones - my daily dose of NWO info...gotta know what those fuckers are up to, right!???

https://financialsurvivalnetwork.com/category/kerry-lutz-podcasts/ - Kerry Lutz - gets a wide variety of guests on many subjects, Ranting Andy Hoffman is on frequently or Chris Duane, Bix Weir, etc...great stuff!

https://davejanda.com/operation_freedom/ - Dr. Dave!!!!!! He kicks serious ass, in case any of you didn't already know that. Turd was just on last Sunday, and also kicked ass as well! Great interview Turd!

https://marklevinshow.com/sectional.asp?id=32930 - The Great One: Mark Levin - also another serious ass kicker!

https://radio.goldseek.com/ - Chris Waltzek and crew - low-key stuff, but gets some great guests like Peter Schiff recently and is pretty good.

https://www.homelandsecurityus.com/ - Doug Hagmann - new to listening to his stuff, but it's good so far.

https://sgtreport.com/ - *no podcasts downloadable in mp3 format that I'm aware of, but great interviews via youtube if your phone will play them or just to access via your pc.

https://sprott.com/market-insights/eric-sprott/ - Eric Sprott - He doesn't keep it up regularly, but there is a new one from 1/4/13. But also just go to https://sprott.com/# then go to the Market Insights menu and you can get audio interviews from the rest of his crew who you also regularly hear on KWN.

https://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/category/radio-archives/ - Dave Hodges: The Common Sense Show

Anyways...That's what I have so far. Hope some of these end up on your main daily or weekly downloads as well. And if anyone has some other sites that aren't listed please post them. I'm always down with finding new stuff to listen to and absorb.

Keep stackin' folks!!!

Jan 9, 2013 - 9:44pm

Harvey's Up!

Japanese pension funds having 72 trillion yen ($3.2 trillion) are eyeing gold. Pimco's (Bill Gross) who manages about $2 trillion in assets says buy gold. Dave from Denver says buy gold. Harvey Organ says buy gold. As Japanese pension funds shift to the yellow metal, many pension funds internationally will follow - both corporate and state. While pension funds internationally manage assets in the trillions, gold remains a tiny market and above ground refined investment grade gold an even smaller market. Buy gold and silver. Patrick A. Heller (Liberty Coin Service): PM delays and outages are becoming increasingly common at bullion dealers large and small. If the metal is gone, you won't be able to get rid of evaporating fiat and your wealth will be destroyed. Ranting Andy and DayStar say: Protect yourself! And do it now!



Jan 9, 2013 - 9:45pm

That's a classic...

the old Blythe Masters comment from the old Blogspot Watchtower days! Classic! She sure is a slut!

I went to the link to the old site and started scrolling up and down reading the other posts...it's amazing looking at the old "handles" or screen names on there...so many don't show up here at all now it seems. I saw Pining, but no others that seem to be still currently posting here unless they ended up changing their handles at some point. Just thought it was odd that with so much fun and success of that site back then and with how much bigger TFMR is now that all those folks from days past didn't stick with us. I know the old Watchtower was small time but in it's own way it sure was a lot of fun back then for me as a newbie...it was basic, but I learned so much! Hell, I still learn TONS here every day though! Thanks for the link back Johnny...it's great to go back and read some of the old stuff!

Mr. Fix
Jan 9, 2013 - 9:48pm

Reply to Save America 1st.

One forum that you have to check out, is called DOTS, and has been assembled by Nana over the past few months.

With over 373 posts, and or something like that, she has spent many days searching the web for the best possible conspiracy theories, and a lot of us try to sit there and connect the dots.

Here's the link to the most current page, ( 18 ), but have a look around, a lot of them are YouTube videos are which I often use as bedtime stories, or something to listen to while I am doing my housework.

Like you, I no longer watch television, and in the evenings I turn off the radio, and try to figure out what's going on in the world.

This forum has been updated almost daily, with some serious behind the scenes stuff, which you will never see posted on Main Street.


Dyna mo hum ancientmoney
Jan 9, 2013 - 9:50pm

Ancientmoney and others

I just dropped a video upstairs in the forum you might want to hear twice.

Jan 9, 2013 - 9:58pm

@ Save_America1st and Podcasts

Fantastic idea. I haven't listened to Broadcast anything for years. (after discovering all 'conservative' channels preaching the exact same talking points like they got an overnight fax of what to talk about)

I too download a LOT of things to my MP3 player, and listen to what I find informative or entertaining, when I want to.

I'm always looking for new things and weed out what I already know, and a place for a list would be great.


Jan 9, 2013 - 10:03pm

@Blythe a Slut

She is antipodean in origin if I'm not mistaken. Girls from the antipodes do tend towards that direction. In fact it was once noted that you only have to pat them on the head and their knickers drop. If not it's because they aren't wearing any..;-)


Jan 9, 2013 - 10:04pm


I've mentioned Ernest Hancock before. His show is 'Declare Your Independence'.

He's NOT a media whore, but has been involved for a long time and I've learned a great deal from him.

He's done shows recently with the exchange efforts of FRN's/PM's/bitcoin ...etc.


Jan 9, 2013 - 10:07pm

Good news For Katie Rose

GMO: to go from New Mexico and Poland.



Been looking at this shooting in the school for the first time. Very very suspicious. There has been only really one time since the founding fathers that amendment #2 is needed. It just so happens that those you need it for/against, are the exact same people who want to get rid of it, right now, at this exact time.

Conclusion: You are now officially in the grip of TYRANNY confirmed. This your last line of defense; you have no idea how important these next 6 months are for your slavery. Am not from or in your country but for heavens sake - keep those guns!


Jan 9, 2013 - 10:08pm

Turd,  I've been waiting


I've been waiting months for you to tackle the miners. Months!

But for this? "Why even jack around with these damn things?"

Wow. That's jack, my friend.

So, in a two-year window, most miners have been hammered. Pole axed. Stomped on. Well, why? Surely a guy now plugged into the top tier metals commentary hears chatter as to why the miners are trading 20-30% below the metals. I mean, hell, what's the point of the post if you aren't going to take a stab at why this is so? Call in some sources. Talk about why? Honestly, your analysis, at best, is trite.

Moreover, you're going to write off a whole class of metal investments because past performance sucks balls? Really? The markets are riddled with sectors that perform horribly for multiple year clips only rocket ahead. Look at the refiners, for example. They've been a crap investment for years until they woke up and roared in summer 2012. Yeah, I'm glad I jacked around with a few thousand shares of SUN, VLO and TSO Especially Sun, which just sold out for quite a premium.

This is all backward looking when investing is just the opposite. It doesn't take a genius to see a sector beaten down, un-loved, and sitting there at rock bottom prices. Sooner or later the HUI:GLD ratio will re-right itself to historical levels, and once this oversold elasticity snaps back, there will be a powerful momentum trade to catch.

If you've been trading the miners for over a decade, you know what powerful runs they have. If you traded during a run like 2002 and 2006, you made mint. If you traded 2008 waterfall with even a scintilla of risk management, you jumped right back into SLW at $5, GG at $18, NEM at $25. I mean, even a monkey made money playing the miners. Stocks like GG, ABX, NEM, GOLD--they gained $3-$4 dollars in a day. I was there, man, trading hand over fist 30 to 50,000 a day. It's why I own my house debt free, bought several rental properties, and already paid off my 7 year old twins college education, because I traded the miners.

I'm here to say to folks reading this site, Turd's just dead wrong. I'm actually shocked by his comments today.

Jan 9, 2013 - 10:13pm

@Mr.Fix: Oathkeepers

I remain skeptical. I have a few friends who are still in the Marine IRR and I know where their hearts are, but how many active duty so-called Oathkeepers are still in Afghanistan, in blatant violation of Article 1, Section 8? Why aren't they refusing those orders? How many so-called Oathkeepers are current cops kicking in doors and locking up non-violent violent drug offenders and working with Federal fusion centers? Why draw the line at the 2nd Amendment? The Constitution is being violated every day. Is the 2nd Amendment more sacred than the 4th?

I am trusting that the military will balk at disarming people, not because they are Oathkeepers, but because they will realize it is their own families and friends that are being threatened. Even that trust is shaky because research like the Milgram experiment and the Stanford Prison experiment show just how far people will go when told to by authority or when they have tasted the sweet drug of power over others.

On the other hand, George Washington's blog make a very good case that the current trend is away from using the uniformed military for to carry out Federal policy.


I think the Empire may be beginning to realize a large military is a possible threat to its own existence. They are going to rely on the psychopaths who are naturally drawn to covert operations rather than the sad, deluded, but mostly normal human being who volunteer for the armed forces.


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