Constitutional Deception

473
Thu, Jun 28, 2012 - 11:50am

Article 1. Section 7. Congress shall make any law it pleases, regardless of whether the citizens were lied to, deceived or otherwise misled into supporting its passage.

George and Obama debate health care taxes

The metals are, of course, up against it this morning. If you haven't yet read this (https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/3940/lookout) or this ( https://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/3963/lookout-part-ii), please do so immediately. It is looking increasingly likely that the triple bottom in silver will soon fail. IF stops below 26.25 are tripped (maybe on The Globex this afternoon), silver may rapidly descend toward 25 and then continue, over the next couple of weeks, down toward 22 in a final washout move. Please be prepared for this and do not panic if it happens.

Gold is still in its 1530-1630 range but it is, of course, subject to a breakdown, too. Be vigilant.

Hang in there and don't be surprised by anything.

TF

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  473 Comments

Magpie · Jun 28, 2012 - 9:53pm

"so you will not have to pay anything"

but someone else will.

sheesh.

LifeIsPain · Jun 28, 2012 - 9:54pm

American Exceptionalism

1) A recent survey determined that the U.S. is officially the fattest country on the planet.

2) We still are the only modern industrialized country in the world without health insurance for all our citizens.

3) Our 15 year-old high school students rank 25th in Math and 20th in Science compared to other countries.

bardian · Jun 28, 2012 - 9:59pm

number 47

I don't have any "political enemies", do you??

Sounds like a rough crowd. If you feel like you need to defend yourself, by all means do so, but you have no right to make me pay for it.

Stoxxman · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:00pm

Silver is screwing with us MAJOR

Trading virtually RIGHT AT a major support level and who can guess correctly which way she's gonna go? I think even Turd is holding his breath on this one.

https://pennystockjournal.blogspot.ca/p/silver.html

LifeIsPain Magpie · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:06pm

So you will not have to pay anything

"So you will not have to pay anything [if you are poor], but someone else will." What a terrible thing. Many of the people who will be covered are the working poor, whose companies are either too cheap or simply not making enough profit to be able to currently provide health insurance. The fact is, you already pay for those people and others. It's a fact of our "socialistic" legal system that if someone shows up in the ER with life-threatening injuries, then the hospital and doctors have to treat them regardless of whether they have health insurance. We, the taxpayers, pay their bill. When someone has a stroke because of untreated high blood pressure and they end up in a nursing home for the rest of their lives, we pay the bill. When a mother has a child born with a preventable birth defect (that wasn't treated because she couldn't afford prenatal health care) that leads to lifelong disability, we pay the bill. Get the picture?

I Run Bartertown · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:06pm

Good Reading

Nice to come home to so much discussion and so many well-articulated posts. I enjoy when the political discussion gets deeper than current Rep v. Dem topics. That has clearly failed, so any solution can only come from evaluating political systems on a more fundamental level.

Too many to quote, but endzeit touched on how the nature of the leader/banker relationship would be quite a bit different under a fascist system. I can't imagine a Mussolini kissing the ass of a man like Jaime Dimon. That's a part of why I never give much credence to claims that we are now fascist. We're certainly not pure socialist either, and I'm as guilty as others of using one term or the other as a shorthand epithet. 

Number 47, it's stuff like this below that undermines any credibility that you might have brought, for me, to your point: Hrunner spells out clearly just how much work went into earning his/her place in life (that's sacrifice - you do that so that you CAN benefit and have some security) - "8 years of post university of medical training and 20 years of basic and clinical research" and you inexplicably turn that into "I'm greedy, I want the Cadillac (or Porsche to go offshore) - and for cheap! At the expense of everyone else."

How is that funny? How is that rational? How is a person who has nothing, earns nothing, and does nothing contributing to that expense? The fact that they might not have shit is not because they subsidized Hrunner. They didn't. To me, comments like that are a glimpse into the very worst of Marxist Class theory.

MUDbone · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:08pm

Canada Health Care

In BC we are forced to pay MSP premiums for health care, as well as having 40 to 50% of our tax dollars going to health care. It is an unsustainable system IMO. Health care in BC is rationed and is mediocre at best. I have family members going through the system right now. The waits and delays are unacceptable. The system is just going to get worse as baby boomer Canadians become more dependent on it. If you have money you get your care out of the country. For the rest of us you wait and hope you will be seen and processed before your illness becomes fatal. I am talking about serious conditions where a Specialist is involved where the waiting process starts. If you have the sniffles or a sore toe you can see your doctor anytime you want with no user fees. Emergency rooms are always crowded with non emergency patients, but it is "free" so the system is abused. Anyways here are the monthly fees forced on us in BC:

$64.00 for one person, $116.00 for a family of two, and $128.00 for a family of three or more.

The fees go up every year according to how much the health budget goes up.

Urban Roman · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:40pm

It's actually ..

the Robomney-Care package. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't like it!

2 heads

I mean, what is there in American politics besides Republicans and Democrats!

Number 47 · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:40pm

@IRB

There are a large percentage of human beings on this planet that do not have the resources to manage 8 years of study and 20 years of excellence in a highly demanding post.

This is the question that is never answered by the 'we earned it' crowd.

What do you propose that we do with the disabled, the stupid and those that are born into poverty?

Gated communities and rifles are not going to cut it.

alphamorph · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:42pm

MUDbone

Those fees were added with the regime change in BC when the province decided to switch back to a very conservative leadership. There were any number of ways to make up those funds for healthcare (I'm in Manitoba - a have not province at the time and we don't have any monthly fees) but that conservative leadership wanted to undermine the existing system and based on your comments, they succeeded.

MUDbone, I doubt very much that you are old enough to remember Canada before socialized medicine. I do, and I can tell you that that what we have is infinitely better. And I am not alone. Look up any poll of Canadians on public healthcare and you will find that your opinion is part of a very small minority. But you are welcome to your opinion. I just feel badly when a minority view such as yours might unduly colour the perspective of the Canadian system for our friends to the south.

Number 47 · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:42pm

@IRB

Has nothing, earns nothing, and does nothing.

A sweeping generalisation such as this does nothing to further your argument either.

¤ · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:43pm

Pretty obvious for awhile

An Authoritarian Axis Rising?

By William C. Martel

June 29, 2012

It isn’t the “axis of evil.” But a number of authoritarian states are showing a troubling tendency to look out for each other.

An Authoritarian Axis Rising? Related Features

It takes time for societies and policymakers to understand that a major shift in global affairs is afoot. But what we see clearly, in recent months, is the emergence of a new constellation of powers.

Such a concert of nations can only inject turmoil into the international system. It is a relatively new phenomenon that represents a radical shift in international politics, perhaps as momentous as the Soviet Union’s collapse two decades ago. By coordinating their policies, this grouping of powers is beginning to profoundly reshape global affairs, especially in the Asia-Pacific, Indo-Pacific, and Eurasian regions.

Who are the members of this group? Today, it includes China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Syria, and Venezuela.

Why does it exist? Fundamentally, this new axis signals growing anxiety on the part of its members that they are “behind the curve” of history. Simply put, these states are on the wrong side of history, politics and economics – and they know it.

Its members share certain characteristics that raise questions of how it is, precisely, that they and their peoples missed the curve in building democratic states and free markets.

Most worrisome of all: we see strong evidence that they actively coordinate their foreign policies. Such coordination appears to be a relatively recent development that coincides with Vladimir Putin’s return to....

https://thediplomat.com/2012/06/29/an-authoritarian-axis-rising/

winemaker · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:45pm

@LifeisPain

Sounds like America sucks enough for you to find somewhere else to live. So will you?

It's curious that the concept of freedom never seems to enter any of your party-line posts. 

Does ObamaCareTax make America more free or less free? 

Tube · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:47pm

This is good

The Supreme Court is wrong: ObamaCare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL
retireyoung · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:57pm

LifeisPain

Your posting tugs at my heart; no doubt a whole lot of people are in financial trouble here and abroad. But--you know what--there will soon be not enough people like me around to pay for all those expenses. There is not enough tax money around to continue to subsidize millions upon millions of people who are demanding that we take care of them. That is a fact.

And when the money runs out--when the last taxpayer is fleeced to his undies--then the whole damm system will collapse and THEN the suffering will be intense.

I Run Bartertown · Jun 28, 2012 - 10:58pm

47

I wasn't generalizing. You said at the expense of 'everyone' else...'everyone' would include one like I described. And you think that somehow Hrunner (or some other stranger) benefited from this person's existence. You clearly implied that Hrunner has things because they've been denied to others and that's bullshit.

And that's wonderful that you can look in one direction and see need, and look in the other and see comfort. We can all see that. You want to help. Many of us actually do.

My question is simply, BY WHAT RIGHT do YOU decide to take from one to give to the other? I am not asking for a moral justification of why they SHOULD. The ones who sing that song are generally the ones who don't lift a finger to help a soul. I am asking how you can justify using the threat of governmental force to take from them? Especially prior to giving up all that is yours first. You've shown pics of, and made reference to, more of your PM's than I own. I don't think I deserve to take them from you. But in your imagination, I am the greedy one and you are compassionate. How about my 'fair share'? If I can use a legislator to get some from you, am I morally superior to the guy who used a gun?

bardian · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:01pm

QE

Obamacare is QE3. This is the most important thing we should all be getting from this.

Number 47 bardian · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:01pm

@bardian

I do have a few political enemies, some of the members of our community garden seem to think we should put a fence around it to keep out the 'scum' of the estate. Taking the community for themselves=enemy. True story.

While you may believe I have no 'right' to make you pay for it, I may believe you have no 'right' to avoid paying for it.

It all comes down to who is dishing out the rights at this particular time. It's swings and roundabouts in that sense. Always has been.

Not that I recall asking you to pay for anything. What were you on about?

Irksome opticsguy · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:02pm

@opticsguy

"have you met an illegal that carries auto insurance? I've been hit by two of them, almost killed by one. They still got free medical care in the county hospital.

I think the Obamacare of auto insurance is next. The middle class will have to pay for the poor and illegals to preserve their "right" to drive."

The reason we have a problem with illegal immigrants is NOT because they are not carrying auto insurance. Solving the problems of illegal immigration are trivial, and we lack the will to solve them. If you are here illegally, and are caught by non-discriminatory methods, you should be deported. Period. If you consume any services paid for by taxpayers for taxpayers (taxpayer in this context means anyone who is participating in the taxation system, including those who legally are not required to file a return or who file a return but do not owe any tax), you should be required to prove that you are, in fact, a taxpayer. If you are not, due to illegal immigration status, see the first point. If we had the backbone to do these simple things, the illegal immigration problem would end.

Full disclosure: I am first generation, my dad immigrated from Germany after WWII. I am married to a naturalized citizen, whose entire family (dad, then 5 kids, then 3 kids including my wife, and mom) immigrated LEGALLY from Mexico. And, by the way, I HAVE met many illegals who DO carry insurance, pay taxes, and otherwise fully participate in the system. How the hell they manage it is beyond me, but I know several.

This is completely different than the discussion regarding a mandate. If I choose to not carry auto insurance, and then drive, I broke a law. It was mandatory for me to carry auto insurance IF I CHOOSE TO DRIVE. Ie, I can opt out, legally, and no harm befalls anyone including myself.

The Obamination requires me to pay simply because I draw breath as a taxpayer. This is totally different than the mandate to carry auto insurance if you choose to drive.

If you believe that the only way to make healthcare affordable to all is to force everyone to pay in, then it should be handled just like law enforcement, military, or similar problems. Tax and provide. But having a corporate product that I am required to purchase is total crap. And taxing me for the benefit of a corporation is also total crap.

MUDbone alphamorph · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:04pm

alphamorph, we always had MSP

alphamorph, we always had MSP premiums here, the liberal government in 2002 made them 50% larger, and they continue to grow. I am sorry I said something negative about our glorious health care system. I guess you don't look at the financial situation in Canada and the provinces. We are running deficits and have huge debts (outside of Alberta I think). The system is becoming unsustainable as our population ages. The level of care is mediocre at best. I have a family member dying of cancer right now and I see if first hand. I would describe the care he has received as a bloody joke! If he was in the USA and had good insurance he would have had a very good chance of surviving, but here in BC the wait was long enough that the cancer is now beyond treatment. The system will continue to be mediocre at best because people like yourself support the way it is.

Number 47 · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:08pm

@IRB

I will answer your questions after you answer mine.

What do you propose we do with the stupid, the disabled and those born into poverty?

Where do they fit into the 'free for all (that can manage)' economy?

Cobalt Silver · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:09pm

Anecdotal Health Care Facts in Ontario

Canadian from Ontario w/first hand knowledge. My mother had a Triple Bypass in 1989 at the age of 79. She is alive today. My father had heart valve implants, stents and a pacemaker in his early 80,s. over the last 15 years. He is alive today. I have 2 heart stents implanted in 2003. My eldest brother at 59 years old was diagnosed with acute leukemia 18 months ago. He underwent some chemo and a stem cell transplant in which I was the donor. We have lived worked and paid taxes in the province all our lives. We still own our homes, no impact to our financial security and are enjoying outcomes that not long ago seemed like best case scenarios. People complain about waiting times or policies but on the whole look to Canada to structure your Medical Insurance policies. 

That is all.

Keep Stacking.

Irksome · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:11pm

WOAH! Gold is making a move!

up $10 in the last 30 minutes, $1566 and counting... It's going almost straight up, must be manipulation!!!

;)

pforth · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:13pm

Nice little move...

Silver hasn't moved up at this time of night for a long time. We're up 50 cents in the last few minutes. Did anything trigger this?

Number 47 · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:13pm

@IRB

I too can't see Mussolini kissing the arse of Dimon.

This guy however? I'm not so sure.

Number 47 · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:14pm

Regarding that uptick.

Must have been a currency move, went straight down 6 euros here.

brad_pitts_betterlooking_brother · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:15pm
Prize Fighter · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:15pm

Are we debating equal rights

Are we debating equal rights or equal results? Wouldn't it be fun if all sports ended in a tie? Yea, everyone's going to Disneyland!

bluefish Dr G · Jun 28, 2012 - 11:21pm

Re Looking at the daily

I looked at the monthly and noticed the downward wedge with a horizontal bottom. I would like to see that break to the up side.

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