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This Week With JBSFC

Wed, Jan 10, 2018 - 9:36am

The topic last evening was "media malpractice" within the broader context of the lies told...by the first Bush administration, the Clinton administration and NATO...to the Russian leadership at the end of the Soviet Union.

This is history that you may recall, even if only slightly. Therefore, it's important that you get this refresher as these events of 25+ years ago have played a very important role in leading us back into the renewed Cold War of today.

Again today and as we have implored since February of 2014, please be sure to listen this week and every week.

TF

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  8 Comments

Chuck · Jan 10, 2018 - 11:51am

You continued interest and desire to share these very important podcasts is always appreciated!

Thank you, Craig!

CHR.

remup181 · Jan 10, 2018 - 12:11pm

Very informative

Angry Chef · Jan 10, 2018 - 12:30pm

...Occupiers

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/01/syria-army-gains-in-idleb-insurgen...

"While the U.S. seems to have given up on regime change in Syria it is still trying to sabotage the progress of the Syrian government and its allies.

The recent drone attack on the Russian base Khmeimim in Latakia is just one example. Thirteen sophisticated armed drones with a reach of some 100 kilometers attacked the base at the same time as a U.S. electronic warfare plane was circling off the Syrian coast. The attack was unsuccessful. Russia has sophisticated electronic warfare means and hijacked the command over six of the drones. The other seven were taken down by Russian air defenses.

To claim, as the U.S. does, that ISIS or some "rebels" did this is nonsense. ISIS has made short range weaponized drones flown by remote control in line of sight mode. This attack was by autonomous drones using GPS and barometric sensors to find their way to their targets. This is qualitatively on a whole new level. I doubt that Russia will let this go unanswered. Look out for some "mishap" that may soon hit some U.S. troops or interests abroad ".

OOO Buck · Jan 10, 2018 - 1:20pm

Pentagon spokesman Maj. Adrian Rankin-Galloway claimed that “those devices and technologies can easily be obtained in the open market.”

What total horseshit and the average "informed" American (a commodity growing ever more scarce), nods its collective head in agreement like a dashboard doll.

Bohemian · Jan 10, 2018 - 9:29pm

I guess, Professors don't need a malpractice now, even though -- based on my experience, they should be the first ones who get it, before they start to teach. ;-)

It doesn't matter what NYT is reporting (or not reporting) on this NATO-expanding subject, because in this case -- only those who participated in these negotiations are the source, because not everything is always written or signed. But I see what Professor Cohen is doing on regular basis, the same what he criticizes that media do, picking some facts here and there, avoiding some, then cooking his political agenda and views. So who is right in this case, Putin and Cohen? Why would Gorbachev say that Putin is wrong on this issue? Why is Putin and Cohen mixing this debate about NATO expansion on the East Germany territory (from the West Germany bases), with NATO expansion in Central and Eastern Europe, that was never debated or discussed? And on what legal ground it would be debated in case of Poland, Hungary or Czechoslovakia then, and without their consent and participation? How does it work, like in Munich, 1938? It won't work. It never did, long term. :-)))

If you don't speak Russian, obviously, you can't understand what Gorbachev was saying in the TV interviews for years, or what he talked about several times already; particularly -- that Putin is wrong on this issue. This is one of those interviews in English and I can assure you that this is what Gorbachev was saying publicly in Russian, too. For years already. However, our own internal problems, or a political mess here, is giving the opportunity to many "experts, scholars, insiders," to mess with history and write, rewrite, speculate and say what the xxx they want, because BS propaganda, books and articles pays more and more. The bigger BS, the better and more profitable, I guess --

2014, Russia Beyond

https://www.rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html

RBTH: One of the key issues that has arisen in connection with the events in Ukraine is NATO expansion into the East. Do you get the feeling that your Western partners lied to you when they were developing their future plans in Eastern Europe? Why didn’t you insist that the promises made to you – particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East – be legally encoded? I will quote Baker: “NATO will not move one inch further east.”

M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.

So what is not clear here?

OOO Buck · Jan 11, 2018 - 9:15am

Ah... a 'truth' seeker. So finish M.G.'s statement then. Don't be shy:

M.G.: "The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993. I called this a big mistake from the very beginning. It was definitely a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made to us in 1990."

Bohemian · Jan 11, 2018 - 2:06pm

I am not shy? I was writing about it before already, as well as about myself and the Soviet Union, my military service and the collapse of the communist block. It was 6+ years ago. It's just that -- you were not around, yet. ;-)

M.G.: "The decision for the U.S. and its allies to expand NATO into the east was decisively made in 1993."

Correct. Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary didn't call Moscow to get permission to participate in these negotiations with NATO, debating the security and peace in Central Europe. They didn't have problem with NATO, but the Soviet Union, because -- frankly, it was G.M., the head of the Soviet Union, who FAILED to deliver the promised peaceful transition and the security of the region, not the West or NATO at that time.

"By August 1991, hard-line elements of the Soviet government and military decided to act and staged a coup against Gorbachev. Gorbachev was put under house arrest, and his enemies demanded that he resign as leader of the Soviet Union. Gorbachev refused, but many outside of Russia began to feel that his government could not survive. Yeltsin and many of his supporters, who had taken refuge in the Russian Parliament, then stepped in. Yeltsin correctly perceived that if the coup were successful, even the limited reforms begun by Gorbachev would be destroyed. He called on the Russian people to strike and take to the streets to oppose the coup. The people responded by the thousands, and the poorly organized coup collapsed only a few days later. The damage to the Gorbachev regime was nonetheless disastrous. In December 1991, with the Soviet Union crumbling around him, he resigned as leader of the nation."

The Soviet Union was a nuclear superpower and its internal conflict and possible civil war changed everything, of course. The West never negotiated or promised G.M. that it will support HIM, or a particular group of communists in the USSR, or one particular faction, one particular soviet state or nation (Russians, for example), one ethnic group fighting another one, right?

G.M. again: "I called this a big mistake from the very beginning."

Yes, but it was in 1993, G.M. was just a lucky citizen of the Russian Federation who survived the coup in the Soviet Union. And we know that the Russian-Chechen wars started in 1994, not a great example of a peaceful transition and promises made by HIM, G.M., while he was the head of the non-existent Soviet Union already, in 1993.

That's the problem with Putin, too. He can't say that the West or NATO promised -- them, the Russians, citizens of the Russian Federation?, anything. Ethnic Russians represented only some 49% of the USSR population. What is he talking about?

When Prof Cohen stated 3-4 weeks ago that Russians lost x mil people during WW II, that -- Russian soldiers, Russian army during WW II ... what does it mean? We would never say that. It was the Soviet army, the Soviet soldiers! Not just Russians were dying during WW II. Sure, the soldiers from Baltic states, Ukraine, Tadzikistan, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Moldavia, they all were on vacations, I guess.

It's like saying: "Many WHITE American soldiers died in Vietnam." -- Yeah, try this one! LOL

OOO Buck · Jan 11, 2018 - 3:57pm

Historically, many of the most prominent Soviet leaders had very close family ties to the Ukraine. No one denies this. They are/were in fact, proud of it! And so, it is no surprise that many of the 27M Soviets who died defending themselves against the Nazi onslaught were Ukrainians, Hungarian, etc..

As to the advent of today's NATO encroachment at every border surrounding Russia, you can be assured that had this been even dreamed of at the time, the Soviet Union would have continued and fought to the death in consideration of any attempt to dismember the union. It was unthinkable that the Ukraine could be turned into a hostile state (and in fact, it wasn't until 2014 when the US intervened and overthrew the democratically elected government).

To hold up Yeltsin as some sort of example of Russian autonomy in the face of the Soviet overthrow is simply absurd. Yeltsin was selected and controlled by the US very much in same way as Yatsenyuk was selected in the Ukraine. Anything he ever did and the timing in which he did it, was first carefully orchestrated in Washington. Yeltsin was more concerned about where his stash of Vodka was than he was in the future of Russia. That the looting of Russia was halted by Putin and a new generation of Russian patriots, has greatly influenced where we are today. On tenterhooks, praying that the missiles won't fly.

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