Boating accidents

Sat, Oct 1, 2016 - 11:06am

A few years ago, crime touched me personally. A good friend, Richard, age 69, had just inherited the family farm. The place was filled old cars, tractors, antiques and other items that were not quite junk, including a complete type set of American coins—one specimen of every gold coin and silver minted since 1776. He hired several people to help him comply with a county order to clean up the junk in the yard. But Richard was cash poor and wanted to sell the coins to pay the help and enjoy some living. One of his helpers, Tom, offered to sell the coins for him—said he knew a dealer that would pay the best price. He seemed like a nice guy and Richard trusted him. You know what happened next. Tom never showed up again. But the idiot lived nearby and it was a small town after all. A month passed. Richard got mad and left a note on Tom’s door that threatened to turn the matter over to his lawyer. The next afternoon Richard heard a knock, looked out his window to see Tom. He was afraid and called a mutual friend, Jane, who told him to keep his phone on and see what Tom wanted. He hid it in his coat pocket and answered the door. She heard everything until the phone went dead. She called my wife and I and we raced out to see if Richard was OK. We stomped around that snowy windy farm for an hour. I found Richard in the basement with a .38 slug in the back of his head, shot execution style. The perp is in prison now, but it took two years for police to believe the story. In the meantime I was sorely tempted to partake of some vigilante justice. I still feel pain and regret telling the story 5 years later.

We do a good job here encouraging one another to stack, to have strong hands, and keep our spirits up. And right here in the discussion forum every day as we see pics of purchases and the beautiful coins and bars bought by others. We see what prices were paid, and even hear a rationale for why we chose what we did. Craig also has unobtrusive dealer ads and even posts the daily specials from specific dealers in the middle of our conversations. So hanging around here for just a few days clears up questions that took me months to answer—like what to buy and where. But as the weeks turn into months years waiting for … something, a question has been nagging me that I have yet to really settle: where do I store this heavy stuff? Grandma’s antique china display cabinet is perfect and I can admire it each day, but that somehow seems unwise to keep it there even though it is locked. At first, I kept it all in an old cigar box on my desk. But then the box started to burst at the seams. Some of us have large stacks—especially with the sub 20 prices we have enjoyed the past few years. A 100 ounce of silver weighs six pounds, and I shouldn’t lift over 30 or my back will let me know. Alas, that my stack exceeded 500 ounces some time ago and I can no longer hold or move it with one hand. What about the attic? Tried that. It was difficult to get in and out quickly. Besides, a thief would probably look there. Under the bed? No, the rifle case and ammo is there.

So as one who escaped the sheep-pen in 2010, I hope, with my limited experience, to start a conversation that delicately prompts us to resolve this dilemma without exposing all our secrets for the world to read. In what follows, I’ll share a few more horror stories and suggest some things to consider as we all decide or reconsider what storage method is right for us. And I have been reconsidering lately.

Alas, Datta Phuge is longer with us, killed by a mob with sticks--probably for his gold shirt.

Some years ago, a regular here, who sadly does not post often now, was robbed. This person told the story of how some meth-addicted friends-neighbors-stalkers—even relatives? (not sure on that) suspected her holdings and came to the homestead one night, dug up her silver and lugged it away. I bet they traded it for drugs, at 20 cents on the fiat dollar. As our beloved member removed other holdings from the ground, it turned out that another container leaked.That doesn’t matter too much for the metal’s value, but could harm any numismatic value coins held.

Just last week, a member here told of transporting his metals in a suitcase via a taxi as he had to leave home. (Hmmm … many of us talk about bugging out… how is that any different?) The cab driver suspected something and began to deviate from the expected route. Our friend realized the threat and took action before the situation got to the point of no return.

Another very close friend had people come to his farm 10 miles out of town and steal his guns, cash and wife’s jewelry. These were opportunistic thieves who knew he was at church on Sunday mornings. Good thing they didn’t know about or see the two safes, loaded with silver, in his garage with junked piled in front.

And the news is loaded with stories like these:

“Two men entered the house at 10:35 p.m., forcing a 63-year-old woman who lived there to accompany them into the basement. There, the men tied the woman up against a vertical beam and proceeded to empty a safe in the basement of gold coins and silver bars worth an estimated $25,000. Both men had knowledge of the safe and its contents.”

“The victim encountered a man outside his home. At the time, that man asked about odd jobs. Later, when the victim opened his back door to let his dog out, he turned around and saw the stranger inside his house with a handgun. The male suspect then placed a phone call and said, 'I am ready, get down here,'" A few minutes later, two men entered the home armed with handguns and wearing bandanas over their faces. The victim told police that the men got away with between $80,000 and $100,000 worth of coins and jewelry.”

The dangers of storing metals at home are real. But resolving the issue presents a dilemma or two: On one hand we have to trust some people. I trust my own coin dealer to not rob me of what he has sold. I trust my kids, but I have emphasized the need for secrecy. I don’t trust that bank will be able to keep their promises. I trust a bullion dealer for storage, but might circumstances also prevent them from keeping their end of the deal?

So, what do you do? Use a storage company? Many of you have recommended reputable vaulting companies that offer international transfer of metals. But what if the economy and communication totally collapse? What if there is war and we cannot travel freely? What if, what if, what if … fill in blank

Many of us want our metals close. And I see some mistakes made in each of these stories above—a vulnerable metal owner, strangers with knowledge of the metal, and too much trust in a stranger. Only a fool boasts about their stack to friends. Yet, we want to encourage friends & family to stack. But if I tell my brother, and he casually mentions it to the wrong person at work, I better be prepared.

A have an old friend who told me some stories one night. His family was taught to keep 1/3 of their wealth in gold. Being Jewish, his ancestors were often chased from one town or country to another. Their goldsmith friend would cast the family gold into cabinet and drawer handles. If they ever had to leave town, mom would quickly unscrew the handles and put them in her purse. Then they had something to start over with in Argentina, or wherever. His uncle kept a five ounce platinum comb in his pocket, and used it openly for people to see. Nobody suspected its value.

We must use discretion, wisdom, diversification, self-protection, diversions, and a couple of loyal dogs aren’t a bad idea either. They don’t steal metal.

The pirate Blackbeard never killed his victims. He just wanted the ship, the cargo, and a ransom for the crew. He also never had to fight to take a ship. The fear of him did the fighting for him as even ships with armed crews laid down their weapons when he approached. He was a consummate performer, with lit cannon fuses that he tied into his beard as they attacked--and his men put on a good show as well.

My coin dealer has a CC license and carries all the time. He isn’t shy about letting the piece be seen either.

Perhaps that dog, “no trespassing” signs, or a sign that says “forget about the dog, beware of the owner” will do much more good than you know. In my state, you can wear a handgun openly. How about NRA stickers on your cars—the one about “prying from cold dead hands…” Personally, I keep my place sort of a mess, due to a tendency to hoard construction materials. But I know that it makes my house look less appealing to a thief. (How's that for an excuse to tell my wife why I can't clean the carport today?) We also drive older cars. I am not really a right-wing gun nut, but I don’t mind if neighbors think I am. I also have two large kids and a feisty dog at home that know how to use firearms. (Yes, the dog is well-trained.) Someone is always home.

Secrecy is your best defense. Intimidation might be second best.

A floor safe, installed under your freezer out in the garage, or under your kitchen stove is something I bet anyone could do on your own. I used to be intimidated by doing concrete work. But after necessity forced me to cut holes in concrete and then patch them, I learned how simple it is. Even a small safe can hold a lot of gold and legal documents. Protects from fire also. How about building a secret room—the kind the abolitionists used to hide people in? If you have a stairwell, you might be able to build a storage compartment underneath. Many kitchens have a soffit where you could install a false duct vent for access.

OutLaw Safe Company installing a floor safe.

Don’t tell anyone that you have metal at home—not even a coin collection. I know you don’t trust banks, but why not rent a safe deposit box, put a silver dime in it with your car titles and such so you can honestly say that you store metal at the bank when you discuss metals with genuine seekers. Are credit Unions easier to trust than a bank? Not sure. I’d like to hear some thoughts on that. Diversify your holdings—use a bullion storage company. If you choose a home hiding place pick one that is not an easy target for a thief with a metal detector.

So we joke about our boating accidents that put our metal beyond anyone’s reach. Others of us inform the world about the arsenals and our willingness to use them. But keep your stack a secret. Hide it where the random thief will not suspect. Protect yourself from home invaders. They are already looking for you. Only let people come in to work that can be trusted. Even a trusted licensed contractor may unknowingly hire a criminal. (Frankly, after the Canadian Mint employee theft via rectum story, I can no longer trust plumbers with a low rear belt line. Be discreet if you have a safe. Keep it hidden or covered and away from where the plumber might notice it (hint—not right next to the water heater). And you should have a plan for quick transport just in case the economy gets nasty and random home invasions become commonplace, or you simply decide to move to your bugout house or uncle’s farm out of town. (I am still working on that one)

Here is a nice little article from one of our sponsors that discusses the issue.

Well, I just wanted to throw this topic out there for the benefit of our many newer members. There is much wisdom here on this board. Certainly I am not suggesting we divulge our own clever hiding places here, or even that we indeed store anything at home, since the anonymous internet is not really that anonymous. But the need for security is already real and immediate and I suspect many of us have excellent solutions and others, like me, are still looking.

About the Author


Oct 1, 2016 - 11:32am

Great Post!!

Thanks, Dr. J.

Sorry, saying Dr. J reminds me of the line in Spinal Tap where David St. Hubbens is listening to an audio book read by a famous person with the same name as the author. The book was by Washington Iriving being read by someone named Dr.J!

Oct 1, 2016 - 11:32am

Right Wing Gun Nut

People don't just think I'm a gun nut, they know it.

My dog isn't a deterrent, just an alarm. She even makes noise friend or foe and different easily discernable tones for each.

Thanks for the ideas, Dr. J.

Oct 1, 2016 - 11:43am


Just sitting here watching the ryder cup, happen to be first. A very good article,

Keep stacking (in secret)


edit, most Canadians don't expect other Canadians to have a lead delivery system...:-)

Oct 1, 2016 - 11:46am


I was reading some psuedohistory about the "dollar"

Thanks for the post Dr J!
Oct 1, 2016 - 12:19pm

Great Caution Dr. J

This article makes my heart stop a bit. My stack is all offsite with Goldmoney and other vaults. The home security risk isn't worth it.


I did some poking around on CME today, and if I understand the data correctly the bullion banks are less leveraged on the paper trade than I had expected, in a ratio near 2X in a net short/physical bullion. I had expected a much, much higher ratio. Comments anyone? Is this ratio declining because more and more contracts are held for delivery??

I am showing 71.8 million ounces of silver eligible for delivery from JPM, and 143 million ounces in total from all commercial bullion banks. The Excel file can be downloaded here:

The bullion banks were net short 63,400 silver contracts as of Sept 27th, or 317 million ounces, which can be found here:

So, the bullion banks are in aggregate physically long 143 million ounces and net paper short 317 million ounces. The net short position for silver is only 2.2X the physical stock, which is a lower ratio than I had expected to find.

Looking at the gold stats, we find that on the same dates, the bullion banks had 8.26 million ounces eligible for delivery and were 15.3 million ounces net paper short. A net short to physical ratio of 1.85.

These figures are lower than I had expected. Did these low ratios surprise anyone else? What are the historical norms?

Of course, the physical report may be B.S. In the physical report, CME says: "The information in this report is taken from sources believed to be reliable; however,the Commodity Exchange, Inc. disclaims all liability whatsoever with regard to its accuracy or completeness."

Oct 1, 2016 - 12:25pm

lucky 7

As usual, doc, a great article. Being prepared for a shtf scenario is not so easy.

Oct 1, 2016 - 12:41pm

Great Article Dr. J

Many times the best hiding place is in plain site.

Also, it's easy to hid a Bitcoin and takes no effort to bug out with it.

And remember, if TPTB completely shut down the internet, they terminate their ability to control.

boomer sooner
Oct 1, 2016 - 12:51pm

Thanks for the weekend read.

My comment is- Get to know your contractors and workers. Ask questions, casually and sincerely. The better you "feel their pain" and throw in a little of yours as well, the less likely they will pull something. As to what happened to Richard, Dr J I am truely sorry. A lesson should be taken from this, people will kill you for not only worldly objects, but the knowledge that they have stolen from you.

Being one of those SOB's people like to cuss (____________ contractor), I have great experiences with my customers and get to know them well (I do not advertise, work on referrals). Many seem to trust to the point of my being uncomfortable. I have discovered many items, mostly personal heirlooms, but some I could retire to the islands and no one would be wiser. I then recommend better locations.

If you are not familiar with how a house is constructed (for hiding spots) I recommend going to a site where a house is being built and walk through during all phases, observe and note all the cavities. Basically the entire house is hollow. Drilling doors or cutting Sheetrock and installing a panel is not difficult and effective, and not too costly to repair if you 'screw it up'. Most are afraid of the unknown. Only one way to fix that, take the plunge! Mistakes are made, yes, but very rarely if examined carefully beforehand. Kinda like trading, lol.

My own case. Very little at hand, most at arms length and broken up in many pieces. Some may never be found (again insurance has a cost, accept it). Like Blackbeard's day, a treasure map may be necessary.

Off to my Saturday errands, then to one of my LCS owner's wedding, who has become not only a great customer (both ways) but a close friend (and a member here).

SS, have a safe trip, can't wait to see the hat pics!

Chacha, sorry for your loss, prayers were said.

(Ryder Cup is awesome!)

Old Howard
Oct 1, 2016 - 12:55pm


I normally enjoy your articles but I would advise our compatriots to refrain from response. I have a friend that entrusted another friend who casually mentioned..... You can guess the rest of the story. Lucky no one was injured. I intend no offense Dr. Jerome but paranoia is a healthy response to the subject of storage. The best advise I give my friends is to "KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT". Use your imagination, be creative but remain silent!!!!!

Oct 1, 2016 - 1:00pm


Good advice! I tried to suggest the same thing, but you have stated it more forcefully. I appreciate Boomer's suggestion of visiting a home under construction to see the hollow places. many of us store at home--there are clever and stupid places.

Antony von Clearwell
Oct 1, 2016 - 1:03pm

Too big to handle

Though sad to hear what happened to your friend, I had to smile when I read about your PM dilemmas Jerome. I still have the same problem (still too many eggs in one basket).

Not so long ago I decided to diversify my storage location, I.e. I didn't wanted it all at home so I moved a substantial portion to a vault; previously owned by a bank and now run by a large bullion dealer. Even a small suitcase (suitable as flight handcarry) was weighing over 50kg. The wheels couldn't handle it. I felt very vulnerable wheeling and pushing this heavy suitcase from the car into the building. That was 5 minutes (or actually just 50 meters) of fear as I assumed more people know about that location, and they might see me struggling with this suspiciously heavy suitcase towards the door.... Whence inside, It was funny to see a small suitcase being lowered down on a rather large staircase lift designed for heavy loads :).

This experience made me realize even more that one day when I walk out, Erm.... Wheel out from there, people will be waiting. So for now some location diversification at the risk not to be able to reach it immediately (as I then have to wait for the crowd to walk off before I go in). At least I don't have all eggs in one basket. Choices.

I like the idea of making doorhandles etc out of it!

PS: the suitcase did not survive the journey.

Oct 1, 2016 - 2:03pm


Dr J

Like a squirrel storing his acorns. Got my my Eagles and Cash

stored in Mason Jars thru out the house. If get robbed, won't

have to worry about loosing all.

but up in years, biggest worry, where are they?


Angry Chef
Oct 1, 2016 - 2:03pm

RMB enters the SDR, but according to Beijing this is only the...


RMB enters the SDR, but according to Beijing this is only the beginning — Rogue Money

Good article Dr. J. I'm not going to tell anyone how to protect there stack. But I am a big proponent of eliminating counter party risk. And that includes private vaults. Why ? Because in the worst case scenario the Government can change the Laws. So a well hidden stack and a dog(s) and weapons is my preferred mode de operandi. Lets face it. How many of people outside of Turdville do you know own any phyzzzzzz other than jewelry ? I could see the day where the Government decides to Nationalize ETF's and private vaults. I have nothing against Eric Sprott. But if I was a bankrupt Government ( Canada is ) I would be eye balling his stack and licking my chops. I could see the day where Eric gets the phone call and it goes something like this...." Hi Eric. How would you like to be the Governor of the Bank of Canada ? We'll just monetize you stack and issue a new currency against it. Once that's done we'll reprice the phyzzzz WE NOW OWN and issue notes to your customers against there previous holdings "

Kind of like making an offer you can't refuse.

Now if you hold it privately there is no guarantee the Government isn't going to go all out draconian and come for your stack. In which case I say..."my dog ate it ". Or : I lost it in a poker game ".

If they persist. Shoot them in the balls.You might not live but you'll likely be protecting a fellow Turdites stack as word will get around rather quickly that there is an abundance of gonads on the Chinese black market for increased stamina and fertility.

Oct 1, 2016 - 2:05pm

Dr. J...Thanks

Here's my P R O T E C T I O N.

1. 2 X 4 in my basement

2. Little gold and silver, mostly miners. (never been rich.. likely never will, the way things going)

3. Friends and a married girlfriend (doubt I can count on them.)

4. House overseas ("for sale" now)

5. My ex-volleyball pounding and diving skills (long forgotten)

6. Banditos repellent dogs (M & bankers' treats).

Oct 1, 2016 - 2:20pm

About that comment re the

About that comment re the deposit box at the bank with a silver dime in it.

That one will likely act as an early warning device when you receive a letter from the bank explaining new disclosure/taxation rules imposed upon it by the biggest most organized thief of them all.

Oct 1, 2016 - 2:40pm

@ Boating accidents

Great article Dr. !

Dr. Jerome the picture of the little dog on your article just happens to be a spiting image of my little chocolate brown Chihuahua he looks exactly the same!

Safety Dan
Oct 1, 2016 - 2:40pm

"This type of economic

"This type of economic environment ends with Inflation. Historically fiat money has always ended up that way." Alan Greenspan

RTD News: "Fiat Money... Always Ends In Inflation" Alan Greenspan

Video is 3:03min

Oct 1, 2016 - 3:37pm


I like that idea! Any forewarning at all will be invaluable.

tyberious Angry Chef
Oct 1, 2016 - 3:39pm

Cant happen fast enough!!!

"The first step in a long game of transition is now complete, and the next steps will be to both end the petro-dollar's hold over global trade, and to end America's domination over the world's monetary system. After that, the steps leading towards the end game appear to be a return of the gold standard in some form or fashion, and to help rebuild the world's overall economy that is now collapsing under its own weight of inescapable debt."

Oct 1, 2016 - 3:39pm

SR 1228 – Clinton Bashed in

SR 1228 – Clinton Bashed in New Aljazerra Ad!

SR 1228 – Crooked Hillary Clinton Bashed in New Aljazerra Ad!
Oct 1, 2016 - 3:44pm
Oct 1, 2016 - 4:00pm

I hope cooler heads prevail

Alexander Dugin on Syria: ‘World War 3 Could Be Close’


21st Century Wire says…

Without a doubt, the recent US airstrike on Sept 17th which killed over 70 Syrian Army soldiers and wounded a further 100 near Deir Azor, Syria, can only be described as an obvious attempt to kill an internationally negotiated ceasefire, and escalate military tensions through what can only be rightly described as an overt act of war by Washington.

It seems that the corporate war managers in Washington are desperate to keep some sort of schedule with regards to the debacle they are attempting to ‘manage’ in Syria. Would this have anything to do with the current US Presidential elections?

Russian political pundit Alexander Dugin thinks so…

Dugin: “The Americans are bombing our guys. A Third World War has never been so close.”

As we have already said many times, the main aspect of this political season is not elections, but war. But if elections do have importance somewhere, then this is in the US where, once again, they are closely connected to war.


Oct 1, 2016 - 4:06pm


Venezuelan Hospital Keeping Newborn Babies in Cardboard Boxes

by J. D. Heyes, Natural News:

With each passing day the world learns something new and horrifying about the slow, steady economic decline and implosion of socialist Venezuela, and yet its leader, Nicolas Maduro, remains committed to the “revolution” that is destroying that once-vibrant South American oil producer.

Now, as reported by CNN, pictures released recently by the country’s political opposition show something you’d never expect to see in a modern hospital nursery: images of newborn babies sleeping in cardboard boxes, all lined up on a counter.

According to the opposition group, a hospital employee took the photos and passed them along.

Oct 1, 2016 - 4:06pm

Prevent leverage

If you have a safe, make sure it can't be moved so leverage can be applied to it.

How Easy it is Breaking Into Safe

Leverage opened this safe A large higher end gun safe can be made much difficult to open if it cannot be tipped over. My suggestion is after the safe is put in place is to make sure it is in a confined area where you can get a way with opening the safe door a minimum distance and still reach everything in it with out the door swing wide open. Build a concrete / steel reinforced wall in front of the safe after the safe is in place. I would prefer the space being so confined that you can't or barely stand in front of the safe to spin the tumbler. It prevents leverage from being applied around the door with long prying tools and you cannot lean into the safe with hammer drill if you cannot stand in front of it. The longer the lever, the more mechanical advantage can be gained because the prying force is multiplied.

Bohemian Marcrward
Oct 1, 2016 - 4:09pm


"To begin with, the name "thaler" was used as an abbreviation of "Joachimsthaler", a coin type from the town of Joachimsthal in the Kingdom of Bohemia and the Holy Roman Empire, where there were silver mines and the first such coins were minted in 1518."

Joachimsthal (in German) is Jachymov, in Czech. Now you have to decide from where the Dollar came. ;-) It is a THALER, in German, but when Bohemian protestants, like Moravian brothers for example, were expelled by Austrian catholics from Bohemia, many left for America. See - Moravian Brothers, the U.S. history. They didn't call these coins thalers, but -- TOLAR, in Czech, pronounce - T[d]ollars, for the accent on the first letter. Bohemian Tolars were very popular in Europe for quite some time, because they didn't "cheat" the weight.

PS: There is another interesting story. Joachimstahl was a mine with many rare metals, but mostly - the white and "dark" metals. The white being silver, the dark, nearly black, was called "smolinec" (like burned sap from a tree). It had some strange properties. They tried to use it as a paint, but -- didn't know what it is. Now, see the name -- Marie Sklodowska Curie, the Nobel Price, physics.

"Polonium was the first element discovered by Marie Sklodowska Curie in 1898, while seeking the cause of radioactivity of pitchblende from Joachimsthal, Bohemia. It required several tonnes of pitchblende to produce very small amounts of polonium. "

Yep. It was dark, nearly black, and at that time a "dark" planet was discovered, Uranus. So from here came the name - uranium. It was the main resource of uranium for the communist block and the Soviet union, along with other silver mines in Bohemia, around city Stribro (Silver, in English). Many political prisoners died in those mines.

Oct 1, 2016 - 5:02pm
Katie Rose
Oct 1, 2016 - 5:06pm

A few years back I had over

A few years back I had over half of my silver stolen. That amounted to a lot of money (for me) as silver was $35 + an oz. at the time.

I used to advise folks to prepare for the coming collapse. I advised them to be sure to have food and other necessities on hand. I generally received the smirky response,

"We know where you live......."

Meaning, "We don't need to prepare. We will come and ask for, and if you refuse, then we will take what you have been saving. Your savings account is now my savings account. I know you have it."

I have learned my lesson.

My mouth is sealed. I no longer offer any advice to anyone.

When things do come apart, folks will remember who advised them to prepare. It is simply too dangerous to offer advice at this time.

Oct 1, 2016 - 5:23pm

@ Sad

Putting newborns in cardboard boxes ain't so bad, I can remember when my little sister was born in 1957 (Hollywood CA) and her bassinet was a chicken egg crate (cardboard box) that sat on a little table in our kitchen. The sad thing would be if the little guys & girls aren't getting enough to eat.

CNN report: Oh but the horror of it!

Give me a break man...

Dyna mo hum
Oct 1, 2016 - 5:25pm
gold slut Katie Rose
Oct 1, 2016 - 5:45pm

@ Katie Rose

What a perfect post. People will remember who advised them to prepare, and they will know you are prepared, and they will tell their mates.... and they will tell their mates, and so on.. You become a target.

The best defense is to be invisible. I don't know if Sun Tsue ever said that, but if he didn't, he should have.

Best defense is to not exist.


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