Preparing for Political Collapse - Orlov's Stage 3

Wed, Sep 11, 2013 - 7:05pm
I discuss Orlov's chapter on Political Collapse in this blog post. Recall that in Part 1, here
I discussed Dmitry Orlov’s book, The Five Stages of Collapse–Survivor’s Toolkit. There were many, excellent points in the comments, and I encourage all who have not done so to peruse the comments there. [Mr. Fix, I will answer your questions and explain my thinking in the comments to this below, later tonight].
In this post, I discuss Stages 3-5, and evaluate details as well as strategies for rising up and making a difference for Stage 3. I do this because I am convinced that there exists the real possibility for real reform during Stage 2, Commercial Collapse, as well as into Stage 3, Political Collapse. There is good news to all of this, so I invite anyone who is strictly a doomsday believer like I once was to critically examine their underpinnings for such belief.
In his book, Orlov summarizes what transpires during Stage 3: “Political collapse. Faith that “the government will take care of you” is lost. As official attempts to mitigate widespread loss of access to commercial sources of survival necessities fail to make a difference, the political establishment loses legitimacy and relevance.” [p. 15]
As to Stage 4, Orlov says this: “Social collapse. Faith that “your people will take care of you” is lost, as local social institutions, be they charities or other groups that rush in to fill the power vacuum, run out of resources or fail through internal conflict.” [p. 15]
As to Stage 5, not all likely to happen, ever, on a grand scale, and almost certainly never in the USA in my lifetime, Orlov says this: “cultural collapse. Faith in the goodness of humanity is lost. People lose their capacity for “kindness, generosity, consideration, affection, honesty, hospitality, compassion, charity.” Families disband and compete as individuals for scarce resources. The new motto becomes “may you died today so that I can die tomorrow.” [p. 15]
I do not see the Stages of collapse ever reaching Stage 4, barring some sort of nuclear holocaust. While the Fukushima disaster unfolds, there does exist the possibility that a Stage 4 type collapse could occur, but unless Political Collapse happens first, then Stages 4 and 5 are just exercises in imagination and I will not further discuss them. Those readers who disagree, can certainly make points about their analysis, but in all likelihood, such stages are just not likely to be reached in the USA. This is because of the abundant natural resources, and the preparation mindset that has stirred and awakened in all of us. America is just not an isolated, little, artificial village confined to boundaries arbitrarily drawn on a map. Hence, the likelihood of centuries of rugged individualism, and resourcefulness, combine to demonstrate that effort should instead be focused on dealing with the Commercial and Political Collapse Stages in any effort to mitigate the effects of the Financial Collapse.
So, let’s get started.
Stage 3 occurs following Commercial Collapse. That is, money is devalued, commodities are hoarded, import and retail chains break down and there are widespread shortages of survival necessities. [p.14] Orlov dedicates 66 pages of his 264 page book to this Stage [pages 123-189]. I cannot do him justice here with just a quick summary. But, he makes some somber points, worth discussing.
First, as to the Stages of Financial and Commercial Collapse, Orlov says–and we all know it here: “Financial and commercial collapses are already potentially lethal. People lose their bearings and their sense of purpose, or decide to take advantage of those in distress, or fail simply through an inability to adapt to radically altered circumstances, and when that happens people get hurt. Financial and commercial collapses tend to be hard on those who failed to prepare, by putting aside objects that hold their value when the national currency hyperinflates and banks close and by stockpiling the necessary supplies to tide them over during the uncertain transition period, when the old ways of doing things no longer work but the new ones have not yet involved. Both of these causes of potentially lethal circumstances can be avoided: first, by choosing the right kind of community; second, by laying in supplies or securing independent access to food, water and energy; and third, by generally finding a way to bide your time and ignore the world at large until times get better.” [p. 124]
So, we all know this. We have chosen the right community, we are here together, sharing ideas, right? We have commenced preparation by storing necessities, as well as securing means to store wealth like gold/silver. Alright then, on to Stage 3. Here is where we can make a difference.
Orlov lays out in chilling fashion, the onset of Stage 3: “Political collapse is a different animal altogether, because it makes the world at large difficult to ignore. The potential for chaos is still there, but so is the potential for organized action of a very damaging sort, because the ruling class and the classes that serve them (the police, the military, the bureaucrats) generally refuse to go softly into the night and allow the people to self organize, experiment and come together as autonomous new groups adapted to the new environment in their composition and patterns of self-governance.”
Is there any doubt that we are seeing that right now, in real time?
Orlov continues: “instead, they [the elite] are likely to spontaneously hatch a harebrained new plan: an initiative to restore national unity, in the sense of restoring the status quo ante, at least with regard to preserving their own power and privilege, at others’ expense. In a situation where every person and every neighborhood should be experimenting on their own to find out what works and what doesn’t, the politicians and the officials are apt to introduce new draconian and crime-fighting measures, curfews and detentions, allowing only certain activities–ones that benefit them–while mercilessly putting down any sign of insubordination.” [p. 124]
Right there is where Orlov, correctly, points the way forward. We all must, at the individual and local level, experiment on our own to find out what works and what doesn’t. I will come back to that in a bit. It ties in with the Gold Rush theme of California, too. [hat tip to DPH for sharing those fantastic History Channel Youtube links!]
This is where it gets chilling. Orlov says: “to deflect the blame for their failure, the ruling elite usually also does its best to find an internal or external enemy. Those who are the weakest and the least politically connected–the poor, the minorities and the immigrants–are accused of dragging everyone down and singled out for the harshest treatment. [I will add here, that the elite strive for division, by casting issues always in terms of either or, e.g., abortion versus right to life, Democrat versus Republican, religious right versus secular left, black versus white, citizen versus illegal immigrant, etc. Political correctness is but a tool of the elite to engender discontent and create easy targets for condemnation. In this regard, the elite constantly have an easy target, based on daily political whims, because both sides can function as the target as needed! Remember when Bush was going to war? The political left protested against it–damn warmongers!. But now, on the eve of war, the political left is silent, while it is the political right which is causing the trouble–support the President in the time of war!] [p. 124]
Orlov continues: “This is conducive to creating a climate of fear and suppressing free speech. But nothing causes people to band together like an external threat, and, for the sake of preserving national unity, a failing nation-state often looks for an external enemy to attack, preferably a week, defenseless one, so that it poses no risk of reprisal. Putting the nation on a war footing makes it possible for the government to commandeer resources and reallocate them to the benefit of the ruling class, further restrict movements and activities, roundup troublesome youths and ship them off to battle and lock up undesirables.” [p. 124]
Syria anyone? Did not Obama do exactly that as Orlov describes above? Is not a war footing the perfect cover for commandeering resources? Capital controls, of course, it’s war! I have not even scratched the surface here [FEMA camps, NSA spying, national health care and restricted treatments to curtail behavior deemed undesirable, etc.], but does everyone see the point?
Now, if I don’t have your attention yet, there is no reaching you. Those folks can go back to their regularly scheduled programming. Hey look, it’s Miley Cyrus!
For the rest of us, Orlov continues, and it is here that I want to focus: “Financial and commercial collapse creates an opening for those inclined toward the most miserable despotism. Once a despotic regime is established, the weak, demoralized, disoriented population almost inevitably finds itself incapable of rising in opposition to it, and the new despotism may become entrenched and quite durable, lasting for an extended period of time, during which the country is hollowed out and traumatized before collapsing through internecine strife or a battle of succession, or through increasing weakness that causes it to succumb to foreign occupation. The spectrum of possible responses to financial and commercial collapse stretches from despotism to chaos. There is a sweet spot of autonomous, anarchic social cooperation, with many small skirmishes and standoffs but well short of all out armed conflict.”
Despite the lengths of his sentences, Orlove does manage to communicate some fantastic concepts. He notes that despots will arise to take advantage of the chaos. That is historical human nature, sure thing. So, we must be at once and always on guard for any such charlatans. Remember, Hitler came to power on the heels of financial collapse, too.
The simple message I took from all this is that we, the preppers, the thinkers, the stackers, the anti-keynesians, the obervers and loathers of the Free Shit Army, we cannot allow the sheeple to become incapacitated to the point of indifference. Orlov says our efforts can fall within a “sweet spot of autonomous, anarchic social cooperation, with many small skirmishes and standoffs but well short of all out armed conflict.” Of course they can. And will.
But what does he mean, and how can we do it? Anarchy does not mean revolutionary, armed aggression. It means only the opposite of hierarchy. Anarchy is the lack of hierarchy. Anarchy in terms of day to day existence means, then, relative to government decision-making, that there is no central planning! Simple as that. There is no autocratic, bureaucratic, government-pension seeking, tax payer funded rulers! I am all for it! Orlov spends 14 pages on this concept, proving its basis and obvious worth. [pages 125-139] Read it and understand. The concept, from a young person’s point of view, is that, instead of joining the labor force, and facing a decrepit and dysfunctional system of industrial employment [eating GMO franken-foods, enduring low pay, long hours, and no chance for advancement], Orlov points out that it is far better “to enter into informal associations with friends and neighbors, dividing time between growing food, making and mending things, and helping others within the immediate community, and in turn spending the balance of free time on art, music, reading and other cultural and intellectual pursuits.” [p.127] I agree.
So, swallow the bile, and relax. Neither he nor I am not advocating revolution. We both are, however, advocating nothing more than a return to the basic principles that got us from there to here: freedom from central planning. Let us all make our own decisions, at individual and small group levels, from here on out.
Orlov gives the lesson on what to do: “someone must blaze the trail; not seek a leadership position, not attempt to take charge or seize control, but simply go right ahead and do what needs to be done without asking anyone’s permission. The goal is to create a viable alternative of which others can avail themselves freely. But for this to succeed, the leader must choose his target well: it must be a significant structural impediment that can be circumvented with finite effort. Crafting a quick and dirty solution that nevertheless embodies the right set of concepts to scale up and take over is quite a feat, and few people are capable of it, but it nevertheless happens quite a lot. It tends to occur with an individual working either entirely alone (in secret if need be) or with a few informal collaborators. The best targets are ones that can be circumvented through individual or small group effort, with minimal startup costs and worthy alternative can spread virally.” [p. 139]
So, this is the goal. Look around, see what needs to be done. Do what needs to be done. Disregard asking for permission, just do it.
I have a plan myself to fix the backlog of small civil cases that are clogging up the courts in my neck of the woods. I tried asking permission. I tried and tried to get others to go along, to join me, but all to no avail. Why did they not see the benefits? Easy. They had no incentive to do things differently, because of the entrenched bureaucracies they became beholden to for their livelihoods. That’s why. So, they have become part of the problem, not part of the solution.
The more folks that simply see and do things that need to get done will cause, I hope, a great awakening.
Orlov closes out his chapter on Political Collapse by offering the example of the Pashtuns. You know, those backward-living terrorists in Pakistan. Take a read, it may change your perspective. [p. 189-194] I know, it changed mine.
In summation, I apologize for the length. I wanted to get my thoughts out, on paper. I will join everyone in the comments, so have at it! 
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About the Author


Sep 11, 2013 - 7:10pm


Nice! My second first! Just logged in and there it was for the taking!

Now to read the article.

Sep 11, 2013 - 7:18pm

Might as well say SECOND!


the quick ... ?

Mr. Fix
Sep 11, 2013 - 7:32pm

Guess what I think?

Are The Real Enemies In Syria Or Washington?

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/11/2013 - 18:52

The definition of what makes an “enemy” may vary from person to person.But we would say that, generally, an enemy is one who has an active ability to do irreparable harm to you or your essential values. He is motivated by destruction, the destruction of all that you hold dear. He is capable and unrelenting. He is a legitimate threat. He will not compromise. He will not waver. He will do anything to wound you. He will not stop. He is possessed. Americans have spent the better part of a century being told who their enemies are with very little explanation or substantiation. We have blindly rallied around our patriotic prerogative without knowing the root cause of the conflict or the nature of the target we are told to annihilate. We have been suckered into war after war, conjured by international interests in order to lure us into accepting greater centralization and concentrated globalism. As a culture, we're sorry to say, we have been used. We are a tool of unmitigated doom. We are the loaded gun in the hand of the devil. When one applies the above definition of “the enemy” to Syria, one comes away with very little satisfaction. So, the question arises: If Syria is not the real enemy, who is?wink

Sep 11, 2013 - 7:37pm
So It Goes
Sep 11, 2013 - 7:59pm

Technical support

Couldn't get stockcharts to comply so I am sorry I could not post the chart.

But here's the gist - gold seems to be putting a huge inverse head and shoulders bottom with increased volume at the neckline - just under 1400.

Could a technician please comment.


Dyna mo hum
Sep 11, 2013 - 8:06pm

Cal Lawyer

Thank you for introducing me to Orlov. 

Sep 11, 2013 - 8:45pm

California Lawyer

Thanks for your wonderful post.

I'm eagerly awaiting for my order of Orlov's book to arrive smiley.

Mr. Fix
Sep 11, 2013 - 9:10pm

"Do what needs to be done."

Seems just a tad overly simplistic, but then again, why over complicate things?

I live my life doing what needs to be done, but my local government is there to invade at every turn, and I am mildly concerned with the state and federal government hopping in to join in the trouble making.

But, keeping a low profile, and just focusing on the task at hand does seem to work. Therefore only worry about stages one, two, and three, and leave out the part of the starving and angry hordes of zombies, I'll be just fine.

Oh what the heck, I've got zombie repellent too. wink

Thank you California lawyer, not only have you given me a lot to think about, this post definitely made me realize that I've probably got less to worry about than my greatest fears.surprise

Since I spent most of my day putting a roof on a house while the temperature was 95°, I am in desperate need of a bath, and maybe some dinner.

So I might as well do what needs to be done.yes

See you later.smiley

Urban Roman
Sep 11, 2013 - 9:35pm

Orlov also has a blog ...

Several recent articles about communities, what works, and what doesn't.

Sep 11, 2013 - 9:38pm

The Collapse of an Empire: Lessons for Modern Russia

While this debate on a generic blueprint of the collapse of an empire is interesting, I would submit an interesting point of view here. At first, here are 8 pages, in pdf format: "The Soviet Collapse: Grain and Oil" ... There are some interesting thoughts relating to the current situation.

"Yegor Gaidar is director of the Institute for Economies in Transition in Moscow. Between 1991 and 1994,
he was acting prime minister of Russia, minister of economy, and first deputy prime minister. Between
1993 and 2003, Gaidar was a founder and a co-chairman of the Russia’s Choice and the Union of Rightist
Forces Parties, and a deputy of the State Duma. His most recent book, Gibel’ Imperii: Uroki dlya
sovremennoi Rossii [The Collapse of an Empire: Lessons for Modern Russia], was published in 2006.
The English translation of the book will be published by the Brookings Institution Press on July 30, 2007."

Well, Yegor Gaidar is dead. He died in 2009, hee was 53, and the rumor is that he was poisoned. Some articles about him --

The Economist:


The Telegraph:

Just Google him, it IS interesting reading. Some cuts:

"One more lesson that is relevant for Russian politics
today is that authoritarian regimes, although displaying a
façade of strength, are fragile in crisis. In conditions of
relative stability, society is prepared to tolerate the lack
of real elections. People are prepared to come to terms
with this situation as an inevitable and habitual evil. But
they will do so only until the country encounters a serious
challenge, requiring decisive and tough measures in
order to adapt to unfavorable conditions.
In this latter case, it becomes evident that the “contract”
between authoritarian rulers and their subjects—
which secures stability by people’s tolerance of the
authorities and the authorities’ noninterference in people’s
affairs—will need to be reexamined. Such reevaluation
undermines the regime. The rulers, who for the
longest time have insisted that their rule is the best,
find it hard to ask for and get broad societal support in
a moment of crisis. In this situation, the society has a
habit of answering, “For many years, we were told that
we are led to a ‘brighter future,’ but now you would like
us to tighten our belts. Instead, tighten your belts—
or leave.”
Russia does not need new upheavals. During the
course of the twentieth century it saw enough of them.
In this regard, the understanding by the elites and society
that a real democracy is not an ideological dogma or
something imposed by the West, but rather an important
precondition for the stable development of the country,
will finally give Russia the hope of escaping crises and
cataclysms. This realization is vitally important for Russia’s
development in the next decades."

Sep 11, 2013 - 10:07pm

Once again, an outstanding contribution

Thank you for this, and for the considerable effort to put it all together (and trust me, I have a keen appreciation for how hard it is to construct these things)!

There are so many areas in which different understandings and observations come together in all this. Your post is so dead-on in delineating Orlov's very clear understanding of how politicians and local apparachiks will deal with a crisis, caught between ever more desperate attempts to "do something" and working to appropriate scarce resources for themselves (because their job is to save us and after all, what could be more important than that). It reminded me of the pitch-perfect descriptions of bureaucrat functionaries in Atlas Shrugged; Rand was such a keen observer of that part of human nature.

I also appreciated your prescription for all of us to try and position ourselves to be a positive force- it sounds like an essay on the Pashtuns, in this context, would be a fascinating addition to this series of essays. I would really like to hear your take on that at some point! Regardless, very well done sir!

Sep 11, 2013 - 10:08pm
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:25pm

Great Points! Esp. "To deflect blame for their failure...

1) A PM holder is a very good deflection.."It's their fault, they sucked the money away from your good US companies and put it into gold and the economy collapsed due to them!" (hence the reason I have been trying to help folks here think ahead). You can become the bad guy in a heartbeat.

2) Totally agree that you have to get to know your neighbors and work your plan. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Get to know, really know, community positions of power (sheriff, police chief, local council members etc). Why? They call they shots, they make the rules, and they will be the one to stop top down decision making that is not in your best interests, or let you know of impending issues.

3) Expect more than media black vs white, rich vs poor propaganda. Expect suits to show up to your neighborhood intentionally trying to discredit your local leaders. They will have fake papers, they will ask leading questions such as "So have you seen Jim holding those covert meetings with the Muslims" or "we know Jan isn't normally rationale so you don't have to comment on that, but what have you seen that is over the top?" or "everyone knows Russell plays around but what we are really interested in is whether any of his significant others are from xxx country". You are dealing with snake oil salesmen whose only agenda is to divide and conquer. Can you be a pedophile, drug user, spy, pervert? You betcha, easy! Treat them with skepticism, and stick together with your neighbors. A neighborhood "suit" visit is best followed by a neighborhood meeting to share so you know what lies they are up to. I just can't emphasize this enough. Again, all these folks are not bad, but they will have been fed FALSE information intent to discredit your local leaders (if they are a perceived threat to the power) and their marching orders are to bring back information to complete the investigation so they can charge you! Please think about this. And remember, the macro aim is to divide and conquer any resistance and to socially isolate you. You are much easier to control socially isolated, sitting at home, in front of the tube.

4) Now, in the calm, teach adolescents to shoot, or use the bow. Make it fun target practice. Better to do it now than to wait as they watch helplessly during some home invasion and you are caught by surprise and they feel helpless. Then safely store everything so teenage angst doesn't result in homefront unnecessary violence. Go to the ranges, good fun!

5) I have given safe driving tips, if you care, sort by my name. They are all meant to keep you and your family safe. These scum feel NO remorse trying to drive you off the road with small children in the car. Really, none, zero. Teach folks how to respond now, so when the SHTF they live to see another day. And if you say "That will never happen", then I will say "OK, but it already is." Right here, in the good old USA.

6) Find out each other's strengths so everybody isn't doing everything.

7) Consider a security system with motion detection that alerts you to your phone so you know if intruders enter the house. Consider multiple small cameras with voice recording so you can capture who enters, otherwise one burglar in a sweatshirt can look like 100 others. Consider switches that randomly turn on lights in different parts of your house to make it look like more folks are home (these are cheap!). Consider letting your grass grow, some garbage in the front, dandelions in the yard, anything that sends the signal that you are low on $$$ and your house would not be a profitable option for a break-in.

8) Take care of you and your family first, then neighbors/friends, then extended community/others in your planning.

9) As noted above, if social chaos erupts, you need a plan for water, shelter (to include winter heating), food, and electricity/energy should there be local disruptions to services. A hand crank radio is not a bad idea.

10) Inevitably someone will pop up about truth, justice, morals, rules etc. If you want to rely on that from the other guys, well...good luck!

11) Most of all, you can do this, be smart, plan ahead.

Sep 11, 2013 - 10:37pm

Blocking our efforts

Cal Lawyer,

A very good topic of discussion. What comes to the top of my mind after reading your post is what I believe is a concerted effort against our population at being self sufficient and having self governance. I read story after story of how farming operations are "attacked" by the FDA for having a local coop to share "raw milk" and other stories where small gardens are torn out by police thugs looking for illegal growing operations.

Most of these stories come from, and I find the site pretty good for nutritional information and social issues that effect our health. This is not a site like which is all doom, gloom, aliens and mkultra.

If these efforts are real and growing, then the elite know (or engineering) a collapse is inevitable.

Mr. Fix
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:47pm

Thoughts from the bathtub.

For the better part of the past 35 years, I pretty much do what needs to be done, but there's a catch.

 I've done long posts in the past explaining all the encounters that I have had with various pencil pushing pinheaded and blatantly corrupt government officials who have intervened along the way, and they have on multiple occasions destroyed businesses that I had built from scratch.

Whenever I fail to be able to afford to comply with an endless list of regulations, or outright bribes, they have one standard answer, that is: 

“It's not our fault that you are undercapitalized”.

That one sentence has been the the inevitable conclusion of about 10 different business ventures. It usually comes at the loss of not just my own business, but multiple employees are suddenly left without work, and their families are left without income.

Since 2008, I have progressed as a one-man show, and only take on what I can do by myself.

 This summer, I would have been able to run a crew, and with a little bit of advertising, it would be easy for me to set up a few of them.

 But I have seen disaster all around me when other people have tried, through learning from my own mistakes, and watching what happens to others who go forth and try to succeed, I'm more than a little bit disheartened at the oppressiveness of government.

I don't know if you ascribe to agenda 21, or even contemplate what the elites end game really is, but I find it highly unlikely that they are just going to free humanity, and let prosperity develop.

Admittedly, I might be spending too much time on Info Wars, I even find Alex Jones quite annoying,

 but much of what he reports is corroborated on many other websites.

Nana does an awesome job along with many of us posting to the forum on this site called DOTS, and to make a long story short, it's not likely that a financial collapse is going to lead to better times,

I think that the elites through their puppets in our government, are either going to double down on tyranny, or they very well may set up the circumstances where there are all whole lot less people to have to control.

It is said now that 70% of America's populace receives more in government aid than they pay in taxes.

 What exactly are these people going to do it the money gets cut off?

Some may learn to survive, but if they have lived through months, or years, or even generations without any meaningful employment.

 It is unlikely they will even know where to start, and worse yet, they'll be walking into a market with no jobs, and no pay.

A big part of my survival plan, does involve hunting, if guns are illegal, I can survive with a crossbow. I am wondering how many others can do that.

Operating outside of the law, has literally become a way of life over the past few years, most of what I do requires a license in New York State, even advertisements require a license number, and believe me, there is a goon squad that will lock you up if they catch you working without a license.

I live in a town where the town board, school board, and the Department of Public Works, are just money laundering operations whereby taxes are raised with impunity, and squandered through nepotism and crony capitalism,

 and amongst all of the houses that are foreclosed upon, for sale, abandoned, or with residents trapped in a system they can't get out of because they are so far underwater, there are still McMansions in town.

 Almost without exception, they are owned by public employees.

Businesses have all been run out of town, they can't survive here. So the entire tax burden lands on the homeowner who is literally trapped.

It is hard to envision a future where there can be prosperity without taking these people out of the loop. And yet, the system is rigged so that they will be the very last to fall.

Pres. Obama's and his buddies at DHS, FEMA, and countless other alphabet agencies are being militarized, and in every way, look like they are preparing for martial law. I tend to look at that as a positive, because at least initially, there might be a continuity of law enforcement, but somehow, I doubt it.

I just don't have any confidence that they have our best interests at heart.

 Their track record in this area is abysmal.

I'm looking forward to your comments addressing what to do in an environment where people with literally infinite resources work daily, and tirelessly to destroy individual initiative and achievement.

Maybe I should just go to New Zealand, but I'm pretty dug in here.

Now I'm just babbling, time to rinse

Mr. Fix
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:56pm

@ flyinkel

I very much enjoyed reading your post, especially the part where the federal officials come in and try to discredit the town board, or the town Council, or the town anything, then I had to laugh.

 All my local officials are scumbags, where can I sign up for this job? 

Sep 11, 2013 - 11:10pm

Very nice summation

That was nice CA. I liked the way you wove in some current event examples of Orlovs scenario's.

Fukushima seems problematic but in a very slow motion and kind of invisible way.

As far as what Orlov might have meant about the "...sweet spot of autonomous, anarchic social cooperation..."

It could simply mean or be some type of massive and coordinated civil disobedience that's dedicated and persistent.

Instead of people having a one day/once a year symbolic protest of some type they need to have a sustained and dedicated event that becomes self sustaining. Whatever the symbolic protest is it would need to hit someone's pocketbook for it to matter.

For example, if as many people as possible nationwide stayed home and spent as little to no money as possible on anything twice a month it would have a huge impact on everyone's corporate bottom line, including Uncle Sam's tax revenues.

If someone charismatic with some credibility could get the ball rolling it seems possible a national movement could happen where people "rough it" for two alternating Saturdays a month and stay close to home and not pump money into the economy on those days.

24 low spending/low tax producing days a year wouldn't go unnoticed. I think things like that silly example above would get noticed. Massive civil and peaceful disobedience would work.

It needs to hit someone's pocketbook to be effective and as many people as possible need to participate. Can anyone think of any financially impactful civil disobedient idea's besides a 300 million man, woman and child march on Washington DC ?

Sep 11, 2013 - 11:33pm
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:41pm

The Liberty Life

Governments are actively working to make us dependent on the state. The idea of self-sufficiency and providing for onesown, increasingly becomes unachievable in an inflationary fiat world. Whereby debt becomes a survival essential at the beginning of booms. For the many, would the concept of 'tenants in common' be a more useful endeavour for your time than civil law backlogs?

Whereby providing the escape route for a generation to be sent to the (farming) hills, rather than the (slaughter) front. Coupled with DIY adobe housing projects and permaculture, a new way can be envisaged - the liberty life.

 I have my art supplies in hand. - 'Orlov points out that it is far better “to enter into informal associations with friends and neighbors, dividing time between growing food, making and mending things, and helping others within the immediate community, and in turn spending the balance of free time on art, music, reading and other cultural and intellectual pursuits.” '

Sep 11, 2013 - 11:43pm


Your post stimulated a thought I have had some time as to what circumstance sparks a 'first follower' and then a mass crowd action or movement.

There are many examples, the mass Thai Airport "sit in", The Berlin Wall being over run, the Hungarian revolutions which happened in as little as a week.

I have often wondered why the people of the US don't stage a mass no fly day, as a way of staging protest at the TSA, and as a way to demonstrate massive civil disobedience that costs the Government big time.

Maybe stage the event as a once a month activity.

Mr. Fix
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:53pm

Dark Purple Haze,

 I think your strategy will become self fulfilling in the near future, as more and more people stay home and stop feeding the economy on a sustained basis, due to unemployment, and just being flat broke.

 I wouldn't worry too much about the government noticing, they'll just print the difference, I don't think tax revenue is even relevant anymore, since their endgame is to collapse the dollar, and bankrupt everyone,

 people staying home and not spending their money is not likely to have a significant effect on their overall agenda.

 You're still thinking in terms of there being someone at the top who will fix things if people get pissed off enough,

 I contend, no such entity exists in power today,

 but spending time at home with my family is a great idea, and I hate going to the mall anyway.wink

Sep 11, 2013 - 11:54pm


Nigel Farage lambasts "extreme militarists" during Syria debate
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:59pm


Mr. Fix has stated above how local governments work around the nation. Everything has a huge price tag and they want your fiat. It boils down to greed and the want of "fairness" from those who have. The city and county need big bucks to maintain their goals and they will pass whatever is needed to burden the public with more new permits. One better hope the city/county does not find a squirrel with oak trees, gopher or wetlands even in the region. Getting these items cleared for a building permit can take many months and thousands in fees/permits, engineers, etc.

(2). Having a group thinking plan can backfire in a moment of time even with those who are educated and believe they see the way of escape. Do we remember the bug out bag for "Heaven's Gate" a doomsday cult? In 1997, 39 members committed mass suicide to reach an alien space craft, the comet Hale-Bopp. One second after death, they knew they had missed their ride.

(3). We like watching "Chopped" on the food network. It shocks us to see that $10,000 is a dream amount of money to most of the chefs. The nation is living on the edge of poverty and one pay check from entitlements. Drugs, tattoos, and a changed culture.

(4). The old classic "The Waltons" had most of the answer. They had a full house in the country, skilled adults teaching the children, garden and animals, and a knitted family lifestyle to survive whatever came their way. Today, most families are scattered across the nation. The value of protecting the family unit misunderstood. We see the conflicts of t.v. series of "survivors". If one is thrown into a non-family bum jungle, do not expect harmony. The retreat into the family unit is the best first step for survival. Have we planted "good seed" or weeds?

Be Prepared
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:02am

Staying Positive but Be Prepared....

CL..... I really appreciate all your effort and thoughts putting this article series together. It's been a great move inviting respected Turdites to become site contributors.

The challenge I see, though, is that even our own history indicates that indeed civil war can fall upon us. It may be our past and we feel far removed from it, but the possibility always exists for it to repeat itself. Like you, I have moved beyond feeling the immediate impending sense of doom to release that collapse can be a slow boulder pounding you to pieces on its way down the slope. Orlov seems to bypassing the larger issue of why we should be allowing the elite to convert themselves into a despotic and menacing force.

It is my belief that there will be a window of opportunity where if good people fail to act and take leadership.... the period of "dictatorship" will pound away any hope of returning to the original concepts imbrued in the U.S. Constitution. I recognize, though, that the size of the free $hit army and their willingness to abdicate their sovereignty for cheese and gmo pellets may make a call to action nearly impossible. No one wants to say that it may truly take a new revolution to remove TPTB because we all know this site is tracked, but the history of the world clearly shows that significant armed conflicts occur to either suppress freedom or to regain it.

As the awakened, we should most assuredly try to take a local view and see what systems of informal governance, trade and communication can be established around the existing corrupt systems. You accurately pointed out the militarization of our local, county and state police forces as well as buying ammo for TSA goons... it's not hard to see the unpublicized plans being put into place before our very eyes. Any coordinated response to this plan pre-implementation is nearly impossible... it will unfold because they hold all the keys and are guarding all the doors.

Since we are living in two worlds, the way things are now and the way things we see may go..... working within your community under a veil of service allows us all to keep a clear perspective. However, I do believe that this effort should be about building a community of like minded individuals with varying and different skills. We may have years... decades even before this things brings the full weight of the storm to our doors, but it can also happen in mere months. Balance is the key, but valuing your efforts and where you place them within your community is an equally important response to the impending collapse. Building new skills within yourself, but investing in others that have even a light awareness may yield the greatest returns around the next turn. Trouble is coming and I don't want to submit to the prospect of tyranny. Great topic!

Sep 12, 2013 - 12:04am

I hope you're right about no social/cultural collapse

in America. But I can't get my mind off the 2 billion DHS rounds of ammo, the militarized police forces everywhere, the FEMA camps, the posse comatatis laws demolished, the taking over of all states' National Guards by the prez, the declaration that all resources belong to the Feds in time of emergency, and on and on.

Why is all that stuff happening?

Be Prepared
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:19am

Free $hit Army Charts...

These charts will end well.... really....

With over 23.1 million households and 47.8 million individuals receiving foodstamps, the plan to impoverish America seems to be going well. What's interesting is that the CBO has the audacity to put this chart out as anything but beyond belief....

or this one...

Sep 12, 2013 - 12:19am


It is for your protection! What is ya, ignant?

Mr. Fix
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:26am

Thoughts from the dinner table, yes, I can talk while I eat.

Everywhere you look in government,

 there is fraud, waste, abuse of public trust, and sheer stupidity.

 All of that is true, but when you get higher up on the food chain, something else happens.

 You wind up with subhuman psychopaths pulling the strings, destroying all that is good and prosperous, and replacing it with destruction.

All the way at the top, Barack Obama has risen to power using the book “Rules For Radicals”. It is essentially written to be a guide on how to achieve power in a democracy.

It was written by an avowed communist, who was upset that everyone in the past that tried to destroy America, failed because their demonstrations and violence, their cause could not take hold.

 From his jail cell, he penned this book in order to teach future aspiring communist how to take down America from within.

Within the book, are all of the platitudes and phrases and strategies required to achieve political success.

 It is Barack Obama's political playbook.

Much of what he reads off his Teleprompter, particularly in the months leading up to his election, were plagiarized right out of this document, word for word.

By reading the book, it's easy to figure out that Barack Obama is an aspiring totalitarian dictator.

Once achieving office, he needed a strategy that would quickly destroy America from within, and he found this with Cloward and Pivan, which is a step-by-step procedure to bury a government in debt, undermine all businesses, in a crippling sea of red tape, tax the achievers into poverty, grow government handout programs to enormous proportions, squander trillions in useless war, and not just bankrupt the nation, but bankrupt virtually the entire citizenry.

Once again, he has followed this blueprint for destruction step-by-step, page by page, and we are nearly at the end of the book.

The war that he so desperately needs to start is needed for a couple of reasons, the system is about to collapse, the signs are everywhere, and by any accurate measure, the nation is well beyond bankrupt.

He is now working against all that want peace in order to get his war started.

 Yes the bankers want the war, it is profitable. 

The Saudi Arabians want the war, it will be profitable.

 The oligarchs want the war, with all of those fine soldiers killing each other, there won't be left very many to go after them, the real perpetrators of crimes against humanity. 

But Obama wants the war to make his dreams of being a tyrannical ruler with ultimate power and control come true.

There's going to be a heck of a lot of backstabbing in the process of who gets to be the head of the new world order,

 there are still many competing interests.

I only bring these points to your attention, because it is my assertion that the collapse is imminent,

 and it will most likely be violent.

Minding your own business, and just doing what needs to be done, are still good strategies, and would work quite well in environment where an economic collapse came as part of a natural business cycle, due to greed arrogance and stupidity and waste. 

There's just one other variable which needs to be addressed:

 This is an engineered collapse, and it is not engineered to enrich the elite, as much as it is engineered to destroy the wealth of everyone.

All too much of the trillions of dollars being printed, are being used to construct weapons of war to be used upon the populace of this nation.

It might take a little bit more than a good home defense system to remain secure in your home with your family, 

it might also take more than the typical neighborhood watch, or even a well organized community can provide.

 These are the things I worry about, big things, bad things, evil things, and very powerful things.

If, and only if we are left alone, 

we will be fine, 

but leaving us alone does not seem to be on their agenda.

Dagney Taggart
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:46am

Excellent CA Lawyer!

Your words:

I have a plan myself to fix the backlog of small civil cases that are clogging up the courts in my neck of the woods. I tried asking permission. I tried and tried to get others to go along, to join me, but all to no avail. Why did they not see the benefits? Easy. They had no incentive to do things differently, because of the entrenched bureaucracies they became beholden to for their livelihoods. That’s why. So, they have become part of the problem, not part of the solution. You don't need me to remind you how valuable you are by simply undertaking this exercise in the face of professional opposition. Great for you! This is humanity's last hope - conspiring against evil in each of our fields of expertise, as individuals. Futile in the current system perhaps. But a way of life in my circle: A team of individuals. On a general note, this day means many things to many people around the world. For me it's a day of sadness to remember that humanity is still trapped by a willfully deluded majority. Trapped in a world of tremendous lies because a small set of facts and a little common sense point to a reality so terrifying that their minds can't function. I Am SO Sorry, my American friends. The Achilles' Heel of democracy: an ignorant and corrupt majority decides what's true in spite of what's true. #SadWTC7Day #SadAirlinePutInsiderTradingDay #SadLuckyLarryTerrorInsuranceDay All conveniently ignored in the official report. Convenient indeed. RIP innocent people around the world. sadsad PS. Do not waste your time here, trolls. Irregular debris damage doesn't lead to simultaneous support failure. Not without help. Sleep well all. The battle continues tomorrow.
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:53am


Excellent thinking; again.

I agree completely that we will go to the level you stated and probably not further.

Indeed I look forward to it in many ways. Folk need to rediscover what is and is not important. To understand gratitude and voluntary service to others. To find that deeper spiritual meaning so obscured by mindless consumerism. To stand up and just do because they are empowered to do so by necessity. To throw off the yoke of restrictions and slavery. I see it as a rebirth, an awakening from a dream. Yes it will be tough at times, but are we not the genetic offspring of hundreds of thousands of generations of winners? All our ancestors had it tougher than us. Have we grown so weak from the easy life?

As I posted some weeks ago - you only have to look at nearly all of history to see examples of humanity triumph under difficult conditions. Indeed it is our natural state to help each other out.

As long as we do not go the way of the third Reich. All that is needed is a refusal to comply, en masse. See Henry David Thoreau - Civil Disobedience.

See that clip earlier with the Muslim actor and how the Soldier stood up for his inalienable rights? He knew exactly what those rights were and who they were directed to protect. Still choked just typing this.

The future is so bright - I just gotta wear shades.

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