Dog's Gulch

Tue, Sep 3, 2013 - 8:32am

The following is a cooperative effort by yours truly, and fellow Turdite Gold Dog- we hope you find it worthwhile and add your comments and thoughts!


October 2013: With oil prices averaging $133/barrel (WTI, light sweet crude), high energy prices initiate a worldwide economic slowdown, portrayed by the financial press as “a pause in the global recovery”. Following a month-long pullback to 1603, on Wednesday, October 16th the S&P 500 opens limit down and trading is halted. The exchange goes limit-down on seven of the following thirteen trading days, and despite “extraordinary measures” taken by the Fed and the US Government to backstop the markets, by the first week in December the S&P sits at 784. The market wealth of investors has been halved in just over six weeks.

June 2014: Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa announce the BRICS Development Bank Trade Settlement System. Each nation’s currency can be converted to the “unit credits” currency measure (quickly named “the Bricky” by the western financial press) offering direct convertibility to each country’s currency at a pre-determined level based on backing by gold and other commodities. China announces national gold reserves of 9,000 tons, Russia 7,500. Within three months, more than two dozen more nations worldwide sign agreements to conduct trade using the units credits system. When Saudi Arabia announces oil and natural gas sales to China denominated in the “unit credit” system, the Dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, and the USD price of crude spikes to $268/ barrel.

May 2015: Public outcry over drastically rising food prices spurs the passage of H.R. 5722, the nationalization of all US railways, in order "to facilitate cheap transportation and economic recovery”. The US Department of Agriculture announces a nationwide farm licensing program, whereby all farmers must meet certain criteria for certification on a yearly basis, including proof of sales of staple crops at pre-determined prices. As these prices are at or below the cost of production given the rising price of gasoline, many farmers are faced with the choice of going bankrupt or selling their farms. The resulting foreclosure sales make three large New York banks and two private equity firms the five largest landowners in the US.

July, 2016: With black market sales of food estimated to be at 40% of total sales nationwide, inflation goes parabolic and the US Dollar heads rapidly towards its intrinsic value. A barter economy is increasingly running parallel to the official economy. What had been a trickle of people leaving urban areas for rural areas becomes a deluge as sporadic food riots become an unremarkable event. The mass exodus from the cities later becomes known as the “summer migration”, and some urban and suburban areas see a 40% depopulation from pre-crisis levels. The national guard of all 50 states is permanently placed under the direction of the Department of Homeland Security, as martial law is invoked nationwide. Nobody knows what is going to happen next. 

NOW… it’s September of 2013 again, present day. To paraphrase the great Keanu Reeves in Speed; “Pop quiz, hotshot: You have three years to prepare for incipient hyperinflation and widespread societal instability. You know you can’t go it alone and your job is to come up with the ideal location, community makeup, system of local governance, and security preparations to deal with this situation. What do you do?”

Good question. In the comments of my last blogpost, our friend Gold Dog had some outstanding contributions, and I approached him about co-writing this post- he graciously agreed! So without further ado, here’s what our friend Gold Dog had to say on the subject:

Location: I think we would all agree that distance from large metros, 100% reliable water, (drinking and irrigation), good land, and low interference from local authorities are key. My own preference would to be within reasonable distance from a smallish city of 80 or 100 thousand so that construction materials and medical care would be available pre-disaster. The "end of the road" on a smaller community might be helpful if we could tap into city services. Expected Code of Conduct including Fair Dinkum trading with all members is high on my list. If you are having a piss poor day and there is nothing anyone can do to help you out right now, keep it to yourself. The "Bitching Stick" comes out Thursday nights so we can clear the air before the big weekend dance!

General Preparedness: It would be a good idea to assemble all of the basic stuff that you can find on any of the thousand lists out there and from time to time I add to the pile of T.P., paper towels, garbage bags, etc. as the mood hits me. For example, if the shelf life on the sprouting seeds is long enough I will grab some today. The two main things that concern me about this are mobility and preserving wealth after the reset. On mobility, I currently have a couple of locations that we can run to and enough SUV capacity to bring the majority of our stuff along with us, provided that travel is allowed. If not, our neighborhood is a good one and most of us get it. As part of that plan I have enough seeds to start food production and enough chow to get us through until the food production starts to pay off. We have been giving a lot of thought to getting to somewhere that currently exists on a subsistence basis, the idea being that the people there are already geared to the lifestyle and we can insert ourselves in a low key way and trade for our daily needs. They already know how to get by on the bare minimum. PM's figure in the mix. My instinct is to go 50% cash and 50% tangibles....I would appreciate input on this from my fellow Turdites!

Group Governance: As far as I can tell there have been three predominant types of small group or tribal Governance;

1- Strong man style....I am in charge or I am gonna kill you or at least kick your ass and have my way with your wimmin.

2- Hereditary/consensus....The son of the chief becomes the new chief. Much of this is conceded to because dad has passed on his knowledge to his son and this wisdom is usually vital to the tribes survival. Move or stay? Plant or hunt? It seems that if the son is a dolt a strong advisor(s) will emerge and the tribe will hope that the grandson is more like gramps.

3- A newer and now more prevalent style seen in many native cultures, I think literacy has a big effect on this, is some form of democracy with a "town council" elected for some number of years. Looking at what's up with the Eskimos and the Indians here in North America they seem to, for the most part, want a direct vote or referendum on the big stuff.

Tribal people derived their customs over many generations, and these usually are for the benefit of the organism as a whole. Newer, more literate groups will use a base document; for example, the US Constitution

So now it’s up to you, Turdville: Again, figure you have three years to prepare for incipient hyperinflation and widespread societal instability. You know you can’t go it alone and your job is to come up with the ideal location, community makeup, system of local governance, and security preparations to deal with this situation. What do you do? Let's say, hypothetically, that we found a place for Turdites to form a community that would be self sustaining and self protecting:

- Where would this place be and what would this place look like?

-What would be the primary goals informing such a community- what would you be trying to accomplish?

-What would the governing body be comprised of and how would it be selected?

- Could we be self-sustaining and how would we go about 1. Having people make their homes on-site and doing the work there now, vs. 2. Members for whom this would be a retreat but would not be living there?

-What would the maximum population be and what would be rules for bringing in new members/family members?

- How could we expel anti-social members? (Cal Lawyer?)

- In the big picture, can something like this work?

Feel free to share your thoughts on any of these questions individually, or tackle the whole thing if you feel like it. Remember, there are many ways to go about something like this and what works for someone else may not work for you, so keep an open mind regarding different approaches, and have at it!

Your friends, Gold Dog and Pining

About the Author


Sep 3, 2013 - 8:51am


and I read the article


Sep 3, 2013 - 8:52am

ithink the timeline is a bit

 ithink the timeline is a bit too short, but basically agree this is what is going to happen. lets say 10 years and im a believer

Howard Roark
Sep 3, 2013 - 9:04am


Read the post and comments. Religion? Well that´s a personal choice right? Or DGulch is going to be a religious sect camp? Salut, HR

Sep 3, 2013 - 9:04am

Thanks Pining and GD


 God and Christ, not religion, would have to be part of the plan.

Sep 3, 2013 - 9:10am

questins. .

Very thought provoking.. pondering some questions now

would you be looking to be self sufficient in energy, invest in solar panels or a windmill or something?

how about internet access? are you assuming a life offline?

what about other countries? will this fate be more or less specific to the USA ?

Sep 3, 2013 - 9:22am

I don't think we should expel Cal Lawyer....

...before we even get started. He seems like a decent chap. Do we just have a blanket policy that no lawyers are allowed? LMAO

6th Amendment

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Sep 3, 2013 - 9:24am

Just to be clear

We envisioned this as a theoretical exercise, where people described their own answers to these questions- so if your ideal would be religious-based, explain how that would work. If you would want off-grid, how would you do it?

There are no 'correct' answers from our perspective, And I would assume that many models could work.

Sep 3, 2013 - 9:35am

10 years

Not even! That timeline seems about right provided that we dont enter WWIII! If hostilities increase in the ME, China, Russia or any of the BRIICS could dump UST, or at the G20 announce their new trade settlement, pushing up the timeline. I hope we have 2-3 years but that's only hope.

Sep 3, 2013 - 9:39am
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:03am

1st person

to even mention setting up a central bank is executed summarily, convicted by that statement alone, and any further mention of such idea or person is met with a likewise punishment

Dyna mo hum
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:05am

I agree and disagree

with much of what these folks stand for. It has been quite an experiment. I am told that now many of the children are choosing to leave and go out in to the world. I have a friend who used the mid wife program that The Farm established (6 times) and they have done some remarkable things in that aspect. Sustainability is everything. >>

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:11am


After food, shelter, clothing & the 3G prep's, consider jewelry (versus bullion) for preservation of wealth. Purchase jewelry based on PM troy ounce price, buy used. More portable & can wear it on airplanes crossing boarders. I hated big pompous jewerly, but not anymore! It is my new "hobby".

Also collect non-fiction hardback books.

Don't forget to plant a garden and raise egg laying hens too.

sierra skier
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:16am

The opening sounds like a JWR

The opening sounds like a JWR story.

Where we are currently is a community of about 7000 with little chance for gardening because of elevation, short growing season and high acidic soil. Water will not be a big issue as we are at the headwaters of the LA aqueduct and have mountain streams and lakes. Heat will be a primary concern as our winter season can last from 6-8 months. Hunting would be valid as the wildlife is around but we all know that it will be decimated in short order if things become real bad.

We are looking at retiring to the American Redoubt area but were unable to sell our home this summer before I sent out my winter snow removal contracts so we are committed for another winter. We have scouted out areas we like and are prepared to make the move when we can sell our home next spring. This assumes we can sell with interest probably rising and the economy getting tighter.

Our community is a mix of folks with many being lightly prepped and most clueless in this resort area. We are isolated enough to be protected from most of the hoards if things were to go ballistic. However as wonderful as our neighborhood is it would be unsuitable for a long term survival situation until a food barter system could be set-up from the possible growing areas in the valley 4000 feet below and an hour away by auto.

Urban Roman
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:17am


I refuse to join any group that would have me as a member. 
-- Marx

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:35am

This reminds me of Nomic, a game my dad had us play

when I was too young to object.

Here is a good summary, that gets straight to the rules. I have often thought that one could try to devise a system of governance by starting with nomic rules, but not playing to a checkmate, obviously. Although maybe that is what always happens with systems of rules. They collapse on their own complexity.

Last updated 1 May 2001 My thanks to Malcolm Ryan, who has corrected some errors I had on this page, and posts a FAQ for Nomic here.

The original designer of the game, Dr. Peter Suber, has a web site about it at his site

Malcolm also introduce me to another site listing Nomic-like games, located at

Following is a list of the rules for Nomic. It is no doubt one of oddest logic games ever devised. The players add rules that change the existing rules until they reach such a deadlock that one player cannot make a legal "move". I guess you just have to read the rules! I believe these same rules were published by Douglas Hofstadter in "Metamagical Themas". There is supposedly some place on the net where folks actually play this, but I don't know the link. There is a listing of played games here if you'd like to see some sample games.

There is no board, and the entire game consists of the rules and the modifications to them that the players create. Good luck.

Initial Set of Rules of Nomic I. Immutable Rules 101. All players must always abide by all rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). 102. Initially, rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted ( i.e. changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa ) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers. 103. A rule change is any of the following : ( 1 ) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; ( 2 ) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment, or ( 3 ) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule, or vice versa. ( Note : This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable. Immutable rules, as long as they are immut- able, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed. No rule is absolutely immune to change. ) 104. All rule changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required numnber of votes. 105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule changes.....

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:39am

The first and most important

The first and most important principle should be that no person or group of people should initiate or escalate aggression against any other person or group of people.

The second should be that this should be an ownership society. No communal property. Roads are owned by someone (and thus maintained). Any sort of "town hall" is owned by someone (and thus maintained). Any communal farm is owned by someone (and thus someone has a final authority over land use).

The third is that every person should carry a form of personal liability insurance, either in the form of a minimum deposit with a local institution designated for use in conflict resolution, or in the form of pooled risk (ie an insurance company where you pay a premium, or just a group of individuals who put in enough to cover the group). These funds can be used to resolve conflicts in accordance with the judgment of the arbitrator. The amount required would be fluid based on the annual crime rate. While one person might have to deposit 500 toz of silver, two might only need 950, and three might need 1410, and so on, so it becomes easily affordable with a large group.

The fourth is that conflict resolution should be equitable. Two parties who are in dispute should agree upon an arbitrator (based on the arbitrator's reputation for fairness). This avoids having a preset person as a judge, who may get an overinflated ego, or be corrupted, as happens in the state. Involuntary expulsion is off the table if they own land within the community. Rather, the worst punishment is that the person has their deposit confiscated and they are banned from public areas (with the consent of the owner of those areas) for some amount of time or permanently. This would be an affective banishment, and would only be imposed for the worst crimes.

Further, those who refuse participation within our legal system will be considered outlaws. In the event that an outlaw commits a crime, a portion of the personal liability fund may go to hire a bounty hunter to get restitution or justice. This assumes a total breakdown of the state. Prior to that, we would simply call the local or state authorities to deal with major crimes, or when one party didn't agree to arbitration. Outsiders should be required to check in, and either leave a deposit or have a letter of recommendation from a member of the community adding them to their policy during their visit.

Aside from that, people are free to do what they will. Don't pollute other people's land, as that can result in arbitration. People can form any sort of collective they want within the framework of this system, or they can remain completely separate, and interact solely on a cash on the barrel head basis.

I'd live in a place like that.

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:42am


Maybe it could be something like Glenn Becks 2 billion dollar master planned radiant commune,...err...I mean city inspired by the likes of Ayn Rand and Disneyland.....NOT. 


Gold Dog
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:42am

Cal lawyer can stay!

LMAO! He may even be of use as the butt of our jokes AND could help with our "Justice System".

Your friend,


Reflecting on early Jamestown we will need some sort of motivation/capitalism to get everyone producing.

There needs to also be decisions on division of labor verses generalists.....division of labor usually leads to a higher standard of living.

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:50am


Most of us have been raised in the middle of a garden basket and really have not visited the real poverty world. We were in the Ukraine many years ago during a time of starvation. There were very few stores and long bread lines every day. I visited a grocery store and it had about two items left on their shelves. Everything was done by barter and black market. As we drove down the streets, we would see people standing by their cars with the trunks (boots for those in RSA and UK) with empty gas cans and wanting to trade their items for gas. My driver was pulled over for speeding and the officer told him to give him one American fiat dollar or he was going to jail. He paid the fiat. Many people had saved their crops from the summer and canned everything. I lived on apricot juice, pickled tomatoes, mashed potatoes, and kapusta.

I have been in the barrios of Manila and Cebu City and they know what real want is all about. We have seen the fleeing, starving citizens of Northern Africa. We once had the privilege of sitting at table with ten people just taken from the ship that fled to Ghana. I sat across from this banqueting table from a woman who was a pile of bones and had escaped with her life and the clothes on her back. I asked "what lesson could you teach me for the future and what have you learned?" She said, " I will never, for the rest of my life, waste a single grain of rice".

One could expand on this subject and I could write a book on what being prepared is about but would be banned to a forum. 

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:52am

Rule number 1

No poofters!

Rule number 2: No poofters

Rule number 3: ... there is no rule number 3

I don't have anthing against poofters btw, just quoting Monty Python.

edit: got the rules a bit wrong, ah well

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:54am

I would add that many other

I would add that many other issues can be handled via insurance. For example, fire protection would be provided by a fire insurance company, to limit their payouts. The common defense might be funded by property insurance/minimum required deposit for a given amount of land owned within the community. That money could go to fund the purchase of weapons or the training of a militia, or the hire of outside mercinaries.

Sep 3, 2013 - 10:59am


Observatories across the globe are now observing the second sun. Could this be whats causing all the upheaval around the world, Sink holes, Earthquakes, Volcanoes, Floods ? Are the ancient text trying to forewarn us ? Was the timing off from Dec. 2012 ? Was this done intentionally to keep the masses from shear panic ? You decide !!!

Sep 3, 2013 - 11:00am

If its Voluntarism count me in

"I believe that desirable social and economic objectives are better achieved by voluntary action than by any coercion of law. I believe that social tranquility and brotherhood are better achieved by tolerance, persuasion, and the power of good example than by coercion of law. I believe that those in need are better served by charity, which is the giving of one's own money, than by welfare, which is the giving of other people's money through coercion of law." G Edward Griffin


Sep 3, 2013 - 11:05am

I would first look at States

I would first look at States that are now standing up to the Feds. It would have to be a State that had a long growing season so I'd be looking to the southern states. An even smarter move would be to a CA or SA nation where living off the land is a given and things grow all year long.

Sep 3, 2013 - 11:39am

RE: Governance

Many utopias have been tried. None will work forever. They all go through the birth maturity death cycle. The only government that will work long term is a monarchy with God and His sons directly in control in a kingdom that grows without bounds. Anything else will experience the birth maturity death cycle, and that is what this present age is designed to demonstrate.


Sep 3, 2013 - 11:40am

some ideas

i like a lot of the ideas that have been set out so far. i have already done much toward setting up a (at least partly) self sustainable base, but i would not be averse to kicking in some $ (gold dog earlier suggested $5k) and some help with basic construction of common amenities (i know how to build a water tower). at most my participation would be to have a place in the tribal (turdal?) community as a "plan b" to retreat to if my situation here becomes untenable.

presently, i have a small farm near a tiny village in north florida, a half hour out of tallahassee. dog's idea of being close to a small/medium city is a good one. civic services - medical care, libraries, building materials, and all manner of supplies are available (pre-crunch) without the risks of living in a city. i also live near a smaller town with a more agricultural history. tallahassee doesn't have a good feed/fertilizer store, mostly state government workers and yuppies. i have fertile soil, ample rain (and a gathering system), mild winters, and a long growing season. 

i would, for obvious reasons, prefer for the community to be located within an accessible distance from here. the hill country of southern tennessee or northern alabama appeal to me.

organization? has anybody considered the corporate model? one share ($5k?) brings the right to build a home on a specified amount of land and reside in the community. limit of one (?) share per adult? shares not transferrable to anyone without community approval? articles of corporate governance acting as a type of written constitution? amendable, but not easily - 3/4 majority? 

Sep 3, 2013 - 11:44am


Obama has backed off ordering an attack on Syria on his own (non-existent) authority, and will graciously allow Congress to debate and vote on the issue. Whether Obama will go ahead even if Congress votes against a war in Syria is unknown, but the moment, let us focus on the Congress. At the very least, we can and should prevent Obama from trying to use the Congress to create the illusion of legitimacy for an illegitimate war.

Obama's entire case for war rests on the dubious story that Syria's President Assad was stupid enough to invite UN Chemical Weapons inspectors into Syria, then on the very day they arrived launched a chemical weapons attack, not against the leaders of the hired mercenaries trying to oust him, but against women, children, and some of Assad's own soldiers! If you believe that one, I have some of Saddam's nuclear weapons to sell you!

While members of Congress are already on record expressing serious doubts about the official story and the quality of the evidence offered, there is no doubt that tremendous pressure is being applied to members of Congress to vote for war with Syria, chiefly from AIPAC, Israel's hammer-lock on the US Government. But perhaps we can break that hold, given the extreme opposition to war by the American people, and the fact that everything AIPAC does only advertises the fact that Israel is one of the major promoters of war with Syria,just as they have been regarding wars with Iraq and Iran.

Here are two things you can do to counter AIPAC pressure on Congress.

1. While most Senators are not up for re-election next year and assume the public will forget about the war next time they have to run, all the members of the House are up for re-election next year, so when you communicate your displeasure for the war with them (you can find the contact for your representatives at, tell them this will be THE issue on which you decide your vote a little over a year from now, and remind them that despite Obama's claim of limited action, the war in Syria will still be dragging on next election, just as Iraq and Afghanistan continue to drag on.

Tell the members of the House, they face a simple choice. They can accept AIPAC's "contributions" and vote for war with Syria, but they need to ask themselves if all AIPAC's money and media influence be able to hold off a landslide vote to remove them from office from an enraged constituency? AIPAC cannot guarantee their re-election of you and all your friends organize to keep that congressman's war vote in the public eye in their home district next election.


The congressman can refuse AIPAC's money, vote their conscience and oppose the war, and count on you and your friends keeping that congressman's war vote in the public eye in their home district next election.

Vote for war, lose their job. Vote against war, stand a good chance of re-election, even against AIPAC's financial might, because while AIPAC can and has tinkered with elections here and there, even they do not have enough money and clout to override the people in 435 separate districts!

This only works if the call for action goes viral, so I need you all to forward this article to everyone you know, and flood the social media with it, all day, every day, from now until the vote.

2. For ALL members of Congress and the media (and everyone else who supports war with Syria), send a letter or email or FAX that includes the official US Military Enlistment form and tell them they have no moral right to vote for an attack on Syria unless they are willing to send their own children into battle, and that you will not allow your children to march into war except behind the children of members of Congress.

Sep 3, 2013 - 11:51am

What would I do?

What would I do? Here are my current thoughts.

I’ll be working with the location pictured above. It’s in southern Virginia, so temperatures are manageable in winter, not too hot in summer. There’s ~50 acres of beaver ponds, marsh, and 3 streams on or adjacent to the property, so although I wouldn’t get water directly from them, a groundwater well won’t be a problem.

Mission Statement:

I am building a castle to the glory of God.

Around it I will build a sustainable farming and sustainable forestry operation to enable the stewards of the castle to provide the earthly resources needed to sustain, maintain, and enhance the estate as a place of rest and refuge to aid people that they may love and serve God with all their heart, with all their soul, with all their mind, and with all their strength.


The fact that I know nothing about farming, and the fact I’ll be giving up a comfortable income to pursue these goals are just a couple of the challenges I’ll have to overcome along the way to making it a reality.

Thin the southern ~90 acres of pine plantation in 2014, use the thinning to clearcut small areas for the house, garden, orchard, barn, fish pond.

Buy a fairly large camper/trailer that I can live full time on the land on weekends in 2014, and then next year oversee the building of the house.

Summer/fall 2014 Start building large piles of compost, enough to cover about 1/8th of an acre for the starter garden. Plan to expand the garden in subsequent years as gardening knowledge and knowledge of how to prep and store garden vegetables and fruit improve and increase.

Build covered shelter sufficient to hold several cords of firewood to store it for seasoning. Start cutting firewood in 2014 for use in late 2015. 

Either fall of 2014 or March 2015 plant the orchard. Apples, pears, cherries, plums, whatever will grow. A handful of trees for each, with some varieties chosen for early or late maturing, cooking vs eating raw, etc. Maybe 2-3 dozen trees.

Lay out the garden with organic gardening in mind, to minimize need for pesticides. Have hedgerows next to, or integrated into garden to provide shelter to songbirds that eat bugs. Plant flowers beside the hedgerow and garden that provided habitat to predatory bugs that would eat garden pests.

House will be built in 2015 to function comfortably with and without energy.

  • Will be designed to maximize passive solar heating potential
  • Probably have both a generator and a solar system for electricity – depending on what is available (or not). 
  • Radiant floor heating with an in-ground heat pump for use when there’s electricity available.
  • It will have high efficiency woodburning masonry fireplaces to hold heat for hours and release it slowly when wood is the preferred heating material. One example:
  • Kitchen will have propane stove for normal use, and a functional woodburning stove in case propane isn’t available.
  • Kitchen will have a small hand-pump that can pump well water in event power is out.
  • A few thousand gallons of well water will be stored at elevation, to allow gravity fed water supply/pressure in the house. There will be a hand (or preferably foot powered) pump that can be used to fill the tank if electricity is unavailable.
  • Will have a root cellar for zero energy cost storage of vegetables.

At some point, build a small pond in the valley next to the house and stock it with bluegill and bass to provide alternative protein source.

There is a small housing development to the north with a couple houses for sale on 3-5 acre lots.

There is another small housing development to the south with 4-5 acre lots (electric is in, but only about 3 houses built, other lots are bare land), and one 16 acre bare lot.

Encourage like-minded friends willing to be responsible for themselves and their families to move in nearby. Not looking to set up a government, just have a dozen or two dozen friendly families in the vicinity who can take care of themselves and are willing to help friends. Compatible (not necessarily identical or even closely related) religious beliefs desirable. A belief that they’re ordered by God to kill me because I don’t share their religion would inhibit close friendships.

The following article was written by a guy who had to live in a Mad Max style situation in the 90’s in Bosnia when his city was surrounded and cut off for a year. No electricity, no fuel, no running water, no real food distribution, no distribution of any goods, nor any kind of organized law or government. No organized army or police force - there were groups of defenders, who were actually anybody who had a gun, and would fight for his own house and his own family. I found it informative. It’s particularly interesting that in a no-kidding SHTF situation, gold and silver are less useful than immediately necessary things like food, water, ammo and medical supplies (which include hard liquor for sterilizing things, interestingly enough). This gent says he traded all his PMs away for ammo.

In a situation like Germany’s hyperinflation in the 20’s, gold and silver are more useful when there is still some semblance of a government and a market. A book about Germany’s hyperinflation I found useful was When Monday Dies, by Adam Fergusson.

We’ll see how it goes.

Best Regards,


Dyna mo hum
Sep 3, 2013 - 11:56am

Sep 3, 2013 - 12:30pm

Fantastic Topic, Thank You Both

Pining and Gold Dog: great thoughts, thank you for starting this conversation.

I will be picking this theme up in my post on Wed. night.

There is an overlapping between societal collapse, preparing for one, and living through one into the next paradigm, obviously. Having read up on many varied topics, and taking a practical approach to this set of questions, I am convinced that the solutions to the problems presented above must all acknowledge that central planning is off the table. Period. Self-determination, from stake holders, who all collectively have some input into decision-making, but none of whom have final, sole decision-making, is the way to go.

As to human being dispute resolution, yes, I am an expert, proudly so for the past two decades. I have seen parts of the system that work, and parts that do not. I have studied conflict resolution around the world.

I am thoroughly impressed with Richard J. Maybury and his two rules:

(1) Do all you have agreed to do; and

(2) Do not encroach on other persons or their property.

Green Lantern first adopted this as his signature long ago, and credit goes to him for pointing me in that direction.

In any event, these are the only two centralized rules that I am comfortable being subjected to buy some sort of governing authority. As for that concept, that is, a governing authority, I believe that human beings are corrupt, that despite everyone's best intention, corruption will ultimately defeat any collective attempt to coexist, unless power is dispersed to the individuals who have a stake in the success of the society.

In short, no stake = no vote.

given this excellent concept to discuss, and considering that Orlov spends a bit of time pointing out real-world examples in his book concerning this concept, I will spend a bit of time in my post on Wednesday regarding the issue of alternative dispute resolution outside of a centralized government authoritarian framework. The teaser on this one is look to the east, specifically, the Pashtun's and their model. Mind you, I'm not advocating their way of life, but there is something to be said of their model of governance from a dispute resolution perspective. There are many other examples, from the real world, and not some theoretical Keynesian, claptrap, corruption contrivance designed to enrich the elite at the expense of everyone else.

There is of course room for all religious faiths, including atheists and agnostics, provided the two golden rules are adhered to.

The rest of the discussion of setting up the community are but details to be hung upon this analytical framework.

Anyhow, thanks for the thought provoking post, as always.

p.s., by the way gold dog, I sure hope I thanked you for taking care of that raffle that turn had a while back. I did get the item, and I thank you profusely for making it all happen as you promised. You are a good man, and I am proud to know you.

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