Silver for gold -- and vice versa

Fri, Aug 16, 2013 - 4:33pm

The warden said:
"The exit is sold.
If you want a way out,
Silver and gold."

There's been a lot of talk, maybe too much talk... :-) about which precious metal is best to own, why, when, in what ratio (if any, for some). Not a trivial question to ask if one is just beginning to stack -- and not one to ignore if one had at one point tragically lost a sizeable stack in choppy waters on a midnight fishing expedition.

There are economic, monetary, industrial, geopolitical, social and in ALL cases personal considerations -- I cannot hope to cover them all: but I would like to try to start a conversation about them, and eventually dig up more details in future posts. We are all our own 'financial advisers', to a greater or lesser extent we are trying to act as such for our family and friends. It's important to have a solid, well-founded understanding of at least the pillars influencing the decision which metal to choose and in what ratio. And whether and when this decision should be revisited.

Being the Luddite that I am, I do NOT feel comfortable investing my savings in paper representations of legal claims on property I do not physically control – as I see a non-trivial risk in being subordinated if not outright dispossessed of said ‘ownership’ as and when the current monetary paradigm hits a convenient milestone on its lurching path towards its eventual demise (and subsequent transformation). While I do not (as yet) foresee the end of the world as we know it in ALL areas of life, I DO remember, and therefore anticipate the possibility of ‘bail-ins’ on a much more breathtaking scale than we have seen thus far -- at least recently. Perhaps direct registration of shares or physical certificates will help. The fact that I see this as a ‘perhaps’ is enough for me to stick to physical, tangible, directly held assets. But as Ernest Hemingway said, you go broke gradually, then all at once. I don’t think we’ll get a red-striped letter in the mail saying ‘WARNING’ beforehand (any more than we already have, of course) – the entire point of making an (admittedly pretty final) move like this is to have as many people still holding the bag as possible. While general warning signs abound (and will multiply), there will be no text message telling me it’s no longer safe. Year early, minute late and all that. Hence my focus on physical accumulation.

My very first investment in precious metals did not bode well for my future in being a PM bug -- a spouse who vehemently enough disagrees with a particular allocation decision is a powerful impetus for liquidation. It was, to others, a trivial sum -- 50 oz of silver -- but it was powerful enough that it forced me to start over, re-examine all my premises, information and informed predictions about the future. In doing so, I realized that my conclusions and planned course of action were correct. I ultimately convinced my spouse that my efforts to keep a portion of our nest egg in PMs was not founded in specious, get-rich-quick arguments, nor stemmed from a gambling addiction.

Going through the process of checking the premises helps think through a cogent, convincing argument for others as well. In my mind THAT is why TFMR is invaluable - the persistent reader can find ALL kinds of opinions to challenge one's premises. Main Street is called thus for a reason -- it represents a numeric majority of like-minded individuals, who will have a number of shared assumptions and experiences. But in the Forums you will find views to challenge ANY assumption, if you choose to look.

The element of metal allocation that I wanted to focus on (and ask YOU about) is the GSR -- the number of ounces of silver required to get an ounce of gold. My own perspective is that I am currently overweight in silver, and want to increase wealth preservation and decrease risk, and for the moment have no current intent to sink further savings -- unless there are extraordinary circumstances (e.g. silver drops to 14-15 and can ACTUALLY be bought anywhere near those prices). My thinking has been voiced earlier by DPH and others several times -- trade silver for gold as their relative valuation in fiat shifts (and thus, for the time being, their tradable ratio) and gold becomes less expensive in terms of silver. Simple enough, on the surface.

There are some who expect this ratio to drop to (or even below) 1 [you know who you are] -- and some who suggest a ratio around 15:1. There are those who think 15:1 is bollocks.

There are those who think they can identify turning points in the GSR -- Silver: The GSR Bottom Finder

There is a good bit of detailed (if dated) material in this old article from The Moneychanger. It's a REALLY long piece with lots of detail, but I have not had a chance to vet its sources, so DYODD. Despite the title, the 'meat' (swapping metals to increase net ounces held) of the article is at the end.

The GSR is regularly discussed in The setup for the big trade and lots of other threads here. Casey Research seems to dismiss the GSR as an unreliable indicator for investment: Guest Post: The Gold-Silver Ratio – Another Look

And of course there is the MOPE in the media -- I was not going to get into this, but this report was too good to resist:
This August 15th Gold Council report was referenced by Business Insider, and headlined thus --CHART OF THE DAY: Gold Demand Is Evaporating. Very amusing.

"Total demand has fallen to its lowest level in 4 years, owing to a decline in demand for gold for investment related purposes (demand for jewelry and coins continues to grow).

Here's the chart showing total demand going back to the beginning of 2010, wherein you can see that the last two quarters are the weakest we've seen in recent years."

But onto more serious matters. Is it enough to look at a chart like this:

Or does it make sense to consider a chart more like these:

In both cases, do the more recent (20th century) values now represent the 'new normal' -- or are they extreme swings which will revert to the mean?

This one is for people braver/smarter than I (of which I'm told there are many):

Well, at least it does not seem like the demand for gold for investment purposes HERE is likely to evaporate soon...

So, dear Reader -- what, if any direction is YOUR preference? Buy more silver now, expecting the GSR to fall further? Or just the opposite – when S truly HTF, will GSR shoot to eve-of-WWII levels (and beyond -- according to some)? Buy both in some ratio? Swap one for the other NOW? Is the goal larger net value of assets in current fiat, or a higher number of ounces, and are the two the same thing? Does portability figure into anyone else's calculations? How does this calculus change as prices march onward (dare I say HEH?), or conversely if they should fall further?

About the Author


Aug 16, 2013 - 10:01pm

China & India

So, from what is reported the Chinese are being encouraged to own PMs, by their Gov?

But the Indian Gov is trying to stop or slow the flow of gold into their country?


Aug 16, 2013 - 10:13pm


Thanks... I'm trying.

We're all in this together and I'm not just talking about metals or markets but the path called life and all it's twist and turns.

When someone on here is being sincere about something personal and hasn't asked but might need a shoulder (or a sharp elbow sometimes) I think most of us here will try to do the appropriate and balanced thing.

Wonderer's post struck a chord on me for reasons I won't get into and also not to exacerbate Mr. Fix's sincere post and situation that also struck a chord with me as it sounded all too familiar to me on some level x 100.

However, in an effort to end this post on a lighter note and in recognition that it's a TGIF on here I'll simply post these vid's...

I've Seen All Good People - Your Move by Yes
Lynyrd Skynyrd-Free Bird-BBC 1975
Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:13pm

@ ag1969

Re: "Once this dawned on me it became a miracle to me that I could trade ( at the time) 17 fiat ponzi coupons for an ounce of silver." It may also finally dawn on you, that under the Law(12 USC 411), you can actually redeem fiat ponzi coupons into Lawful Money Silver/ Gold, ergo you can legitimately eliminate all federal income tax liabilities as well, due to the cleverly hidden (actually intentionally buried) Section in the IRC (Title 26) FWIW believe or not, there are a few dinosaurs still living who upon making it back alive Stateside (the "real world") took action to make sure that not only would Conscription get abolished, but that the voting age get reduced to include those who were being asked to die for their Country, and made the effort to get the Reagan Admin, to come up w/ the Grace Commission, but as well, to get the U.S. Treasury / Mint to once again start issuing Gold and Silver Coins, as provided for in the U.S. Constitution.

treefrog wonderer
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:25pm

wonderer, re "pave paradise and put up a parking lot"

several years ago, following a severe midlife crisis, i found myself with an old house in tallahassee, near the university on a dead end street, tucked in behind sorority row. i've always been a "fixer-upper, and while putting my life back together, i renovated the old house. i had an old lincoln "buzzbox" welder, and one of the improvements i added was a large hot tub.

as time went on, the university expanded, and paid me a nice price for the place (i had bought it because i thought that might happen - i made a triple bagger on it).

for a while i had a house with a front porch wood-fired hot tub that shared a rear property boundary with not one, but three sororities. those were the days! it is now a parking lot.

Aug 16, 2013 - 10:27pm


Thank you. And I did know that. There was a guy on the old blog I used to go to who was really into the "Sovereign" and made some amazing posts. He devoted his life to understanding the law. And yes, I have read the law about redeeming fiat for constitutional money, and all about why banks hate it when you do that. It is also my understanding that without any proof, you can deduct $1000 off your AGI for the use of coin, because coin is issued by the treasury and not the Fed, and therefore is not taxable. Of course this extends to all constitutional money, but since our government does not follow the law anymore, I am afraid of being sent to the gulag without due process for trying it. Intersting times Spartacus.

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:45pm

@ ag1969

Kudos, if indeed you are one of the .00001% who actually know the specific Section under Title 26 which provides for the tax write off for debasement of the currency. Furthermore, I trust that you realize that said redemption no longer can transpire at any branch of the Phederal Reserve System, thus must occur through the U.S. Treasury via the U.S. Mint. Also I take it that you are aware of the legal distinction between 'Lawful Money' and merely "Legal Tender" Bullion Coins which are what AGE's and ASE's are. Bobby Kahre didn't, wouldn't listen, and thus currently resides at the Gray Bar Hotel. So for those who think that a True Education( and Due Diligence) is expensive, try Ignorance! "We are all born ignorant, but One must work hard to remain stupid." Benjamin Franklin

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:50pm

@ Gramp

The gov't of India will not succeed as smuggling suddenly becomes rampant. For thousands of years, the people of India and throughout the M.E. clearly recognize Gold as Money and a safe store of Value. That is simply an imbedded cultural belief that cannot be changed by mere fiat dictate, and/or MOPE, like here in the U.S. which is mostly populated by Sheople, & Everybody Owes Me Something, Constituent Class!

Aug 16, 2013 - 11:08pm

@ Gramps

So, from what is reported the Chinese are being encouraged to own PMs, by their Gov?

But the Indian Gov is trying to stop or slow the flow of gold into their country?



I read an article about this that said the Indian government is concerned that too much of it's currency (fiat) is being used to buy imported goods (Au and Ag) which is causing a severe trade deficit. I think the real concern is that their citizens will lose faith in the Rupee which will cause rapid devaluation and lead to a hyper inflationary environment.

On the other hand China is busy selling UST's and buying real assets as fast as they can. I suspect they know that TEOTGKE is upon us and they want their people to be ready for whatever may happen.

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:20pm

Let's Review This Week's Numbers...

By the Numbers for the Week Ending August 16

This week’s closing table is just below.

Vultures, (Got Gold Report Subscribers) please note that updates to our linked technical charts, including our comments about the COT reports and the week’s technical changes, should be completed by the usual time on Sunday (by 18:00 ET), early Monday at the latest.

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:26pm

Hathaway – ‘Paper Gold’ Short Squeeze Underway

Tocqueville Gold Fund’s John Hathaway says the rally underway in precious metals is due to a short squeeze of 100:1 levered paper gold traders being squeezed for actual physical delivery of the metals when supplies are tight.

Hathaway, who runs roughly $10 billion in investor funds, also mentions this morning’s call by JP Morgan Chase analysts John Bridges and Anant Inani to ‘Buy Gold’ on short term valuation and seasonal factors.

That gold bullish call by Morgan-Chase should not be any surprise to GGR readers given that U.S. bullion banks reported the largest net long position for gold in our records, according to the CFTC Bank Participation Report data from August 6 (as we reported in our recent full Got Gold Report on August 11).

In response to the question of why gold is going up, Hathaway begins: "The first thing is that there is a big short squeeze taking place. ... People who have paper claims on gold, which would be futures, derivatives, ETFs and so forth are demanding settlement in terms of physical gold. Why that's important is because the paper gold market is leveraged more than 100 to 1 versus the underlying bullion. So it looks like to me that people are losing confidence in the traditional intermediaries between the paper and physical markets. And you can see that with the dramatic drawdown in registered COMEX warehouse stocks..."

Hathaway reasserts that, taking a long term view, the reason for being in gold is monetary debasement, to which, given the actions of the world's central banks, there is no end in sight.

Hathaway’s contention that a short squeeze is underway is supported by backwardation on the COMEX, a negative gold forward offered rate or GOFO in London (currently negative out to 6-months), a dramatic downdraft of registered gold stocks in COMEX warehouses and by the price action of both gold and silver in our opinion.

Right after Hathaway’s interview the CNBC talking heads took a dim view of gold. No surprise there, but it is very comforting to gold bulls to see it!

Video, about 3.5 mins below.

Source: CNBC

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:33pm

Thank You, TSA, NSA, FBI, and CIA! By Bill Bonner

Today, we take time out from our regularly scheduled programming to thank the people who rule us. To the TSA agents at airports… to the IRS agents who audit our tax returns… to the NSA agents who are reading our mail… and to zombies everywhere…

To all of you, we’d like to say a heartfelt, “Go f*** yours…”

No… no… no…

We meant to say, “THANK YOU!’

Yes, dear reader, we’ve got to bring our thinking in line with the prevailing trend. And today, the U.S. is developing a real affection and respect for authority! Americans seem to like to have people rifle through their luggage and pat down their grandmothers at airports, for example. It makes them feel safer.

They want someone “in charge” of the U.S. economy too. That’s why the new head of the Federal Reserve is so important. What are the requirements for the job? It has to be someone who can keep a secret and tell a joke with a straight face.

The secret is that the Federal Reserve can’t really control the economy at all. It can influence it. And the influence it has is all negative; that’s the joke. By setting interest rates at any level other than that chosen by willing borrowers and lenders, the Fed distorts the price of credit. And distorting prices always leads to problems… either shortages or surpluses.

Also, by fixing rates at ultra-low levels, the Federal Reserve is actually stealing from one group and giving to another. The middle class, savers, and working people lose wealth. Hedge fund managers, bankers, zombies… and, of course, those loveable feds themselves… gain.

That’s why the rich are getting richer, while everyone else loses ground. They call it a “stimulus” program. And they’re right, it’s very stimulating — for those who get the money. As for the rest — well, the joke’s on them!

Dear readers should use this period to buy whatever gold they intend to hold through the next phase of the crisis. Prices are low. While they may go lower, you can’t count on it. Better to get what you need now. Buy gold now.

What’s the next phase? Of course, no one knows. But here’s what you should be prepared for: Cont. @

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:38pm

Paulson’s out…

But JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs Are in: Go Long Gold! by Jason Farrell. Billionaire John Paulson, who lost over $700 million after April’s gold crash, has cut his holdings by half. As one of the last major institutional holders of gold ETFs, Paulson & Co.’s exit may signal the bottom in the gold market we’ve been waiting for.

Two major institutional players also give us reason to be enthusiastic. JP Morgan is advising its customers to go long on gold “with a four-five week time horizon,” citing further supply squeezing in South Africa and seasonal pickup in India:

“Gold supplies could be constrained in September if labor strikes are initiated in South Africa. There’s typically some positive seasonality to the gold price in August/September helped by India, which is still the largest single (28%) gold market.

“Often this strength correlates with the Denver gold conference. The conference attracts many of the larger gold investors, and given the other positives for the metal… we would not be surprised to see a stronger gold price in the run-up to the show.

“We’d encourage shorter-term investors to consider getting long the gold space with a four-five week time horizon.”

And Goldman Sachs recently increased its position in SPDR Gold Trust to 4.4 million shares… more than six times what it held at the end of March. Cont. @

Spartacus Rex
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:42pm


The Great Transfer of Wealth in Gold & Silver is Coming

Steve St. Angelo, SRSrocco Report | Friday, August 16th
lakedweller2 ¤
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:07am

#8 and #42

Yogi and Jackie

lnardozi John Galt
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:12am

@John Galt

Banker bars are the best way to buy silver in my opinion. Golden State Mint will turn them into rounds for you, sometimes for less than a dollar an ounce, shipping and insurance included. It's a great way to add a little value to your stack.

lnardozi Mr. Fix
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:21am

re: I have not had a dull moment in months.

Just say the word - my wife will fix you up with a cute little brown girl who will be grateful for everything and never complain. Seriously - so quick your head would spin.

Not meaning to be rude or anything, but given the amount of work you describe you could at least be acknowledged. You're a jillion times better man than me, I'm not afraid to admit it.

boomer sooner
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:22am

Paulson, Soros dump

Paulson, Soros dump gold

August 14, 2013, 7:05 PM

After a glitch that delayed their release, a flood of 13F filings, which tell us what hedge funds were holding at the end of the last quarter, poured in Wednesday afternoon.

John Paulson was an early highlight, with his fund cutting more than half of its position in the SPDR Gold Trust/quotes/zigman/41663 /quotes/nls/gld GLD . This after the billionaire manager stood by his gold-backed exchanged-traded fund for several quarters.

His exit coincided with unprecedented gold ETF outflows in the second quarter. Net outflows reached $18.5 billion in the period between end of March through June, marking the biggest quarterly sell-off since the first gold ETF was launched in 2003.

Paulson also offed holdings in Barrick Gold /quotes/zigman/12772 /quotes/nls/abx ABX and held tight to holdings in Agnico Eagle Mines/quotes/zigman/16580 /quotes/nls/aem AEM , Allied Nevada Gold/quotes/zigman/37575 /quotes/nls/anv ANV and Iamgold/quotes/zigman/14515 /quotes/nls/iag IAG . Paulson added to its stake in Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold/quotes/zigman/154700 /quotes/nls/fcx FCX .

Elsewhere, George Soros also took part in the massive gold ETF exodus, dumping nearly 531,000 shares of the SPDR Gold Trust while more than doubling his relatively small Apple/quotes/zigman/68270 /quotes/nls/aapl AAPL 0.15% position.

Could it be that they were part of the phys being liquidated by redeeming shares for the real stuff. Might they thought like we do that having a stack is better than paper?

An interesting paper I found during a browsing session. One part in the intro that got me thinking, is this why the Euro Bloc uses current market pricing for Gold and US has not changed official value in 40 years.

The world gold market is dominated by the European currency 73

bloc, which possesses about two-thirds of the ‘market power’ 74

enjoyed by all participants in that market. Accordingly, real 75

appreciations or depreciations of the European currencies have 76

profound effects on the price of gold in all other currencies, 77

(p. 893).

Gold and the Dollar (and the Euro, Pound, and Yen)

3 Kuntara Pukthuanthong a, Richard Roll b,*

4 a San Diego State University, United States

5 b UCLA Anderson, United States

As to GSR, I have lately been picking up Birthday, Graduation, Christmas gifts at the LCS. Having gotten to know 2 owners pretty well, they let me dig through the scrap bucket. Have found some unbelievable stuff. Been having them save crucifixes, gold and silver, with/without chains, and now have quite a collection. From 10-22 krt and sterling. Able to buy at melt since they are paying 90-92%. This is how I have been letting the GSR play, by what the street people bring in.

As when to trade silver for gold, I do not know it I could with phys. LCS near me has been thinking about doing a local pool account, 3 way trades (silver, gold, cash) and using his scrap as the phys to back the account (he melts everything into blocks in back room before taking to refiner). Anyone know of any other LCS doing this in house?

Spartacus Rex
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:41am

Aug 17, 2013 - 12:52am


Good to see you. Great story. Reminds me why I have an ex wife. Try to get some rest and be ready for what is shaping up to be a most interesting end of summer.

Spartacus Rex
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:52am

The Tyranny of Forced Correlations By Martin Hutchinson

The Fed’s artificial policies will eventually cause gigantic losses and a major market crash.

The S&P 500 Index pushed above 1700 last week, and is now 10% into record territory above its 2007 high. Meanwhile the second quarter U.S. GDP report showed growth of only 1.7%—and that's after including an extra 3% of intangibles in GDP that weren't previously thought suitable to capitalize. The forced correlations between bond markets, energy prices and the world's stock markets become ever closer and more profitable for leveraged traders—and the real correlation with actual economic activity grows ever weaker.

The notable feature of the GDP numbers was the weakness of the last three quarters, with average growth of less than 1% in spite of $85 billion per month in Fed bond purchases, a program that began in September. There is however one caveat; most of the last three quarters' sluggishness has come from the downsizing of government. Because the GDP statistic is rigged to show growth automatically if government bloats, the genuine if modest downsizing of government in the last three quarters has played merry hell with the GDP numbers; the private sector, in contrast, has grown at a more respectable 2.0% over the period.

Nevertheless, recent growth has been far below historic levels, in which average real growth for the 1929-2002 period was 3.4% annually. That's why this year's strength in the stock market, with the S&P 500 now up over 20% since January 1, is so strange (although predicted here at the beginning of the year). Cont. @

Aug 17, 2013 - 12:55am

My better half

is truly that because in the beginning as it turned out she was mostly skeptical about the precious goods being accumulated with half the household saving since early 2000, she was possibly thinking that she may have made a grievous mistake in her selection of this sometime maniacal man who was completely bent on these shinny malleable goods. Though as time went on she began to change her outlook and then in the year 2007 she finally got it. By god she's got it I say, I hear no arguments any longer, we have moved a mountain of fiat thought and the rest will be our financial history lesson to our children and grandchildren.

Mr. Fix
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:55am

All fixed.

The seized bearing fried the belt, and broke the brackets. The idler pulley is also the belt tensioner, and it ripped off the front of the engine. Apparently six-cylinder Subarus are quite rare, special order items, so I fabricated new ones on the side of the road out of parts for other cars that were available. The whole time, listening to why now she needs a new car.

I forgot to mention the most important lesson I've learned this summer:

Next time I'm just going to buy another monster box, and call it a day.

Despite it all, the stack is still intact.

Have a nice weekend.

Aug 17, 2013 - 12:55am

Got Tungsten?

Gold Or Tungsten? Here's How To Know Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/16/2013 20:18 -0400

We hope the Bundesbank, and certainly the German people, will be using one of these in the near-term (up to and including 2020 ) future.

From Olympus:

Ultrasonic Testing of Gold Bars


Nondestructive verification of the physical integrity of gold bars.


Gold bullion bars have been fraudulently adulterated through the insertion of slugs of inexpensive base metal of similar density. These insertions are difficult or impossible to detect through weighing, radiography, or X-ray fluorescence, so some precious metals processors have resorted to drilling or cutting bars to verify integrity. However a simple ultrasonic test can quickly and reliably locate inserts with no need to drill, cut, or otherwise alter the bar.


Any Olympus NDT flaw detector or phased array instrument can be used for this test. These include the EPOCH XT, EPOCH 600, EPOCH 1000, OmniScan SX, and OmniScan MX2. The recommended transducer frequency will typically be 2.25 MHz.

Aug 17, 2013 - 12:56am


It's time you and I clear the air. What is your problem with me?

Spartacus Rex
Aug 17, 2013 - 1:54am

UAE gold demand up 40%

The UAE witnessed a 40 per cent surge in consumer demand for gold during the second quarter of the year over the same period last year, according to the latest data issued by the World Gold Council on Thursday.

Total gold consumer demand in the country jumped to 22.8 tonnes for the June quarter, compared to the 16.3 tonnes demand in the same quarter last year. -

In value terms, the total gold demand in the country increased to $1.04 billion during the second quarter of 2013, compared to $843 million, showing 23 per cent increase.

“Demand in the UAE was heavily buttressed by the substantial ex-pat Indian community, which favours 22-carat items,” the Council in the quarterly report.

The Middle East region recorded 37 per cent increase in gold demand for June quarter that increased to 67.4 tonnes compared to 55.7 tonnes during the same period last year. Value of the gold demand in the region increased to $3.06 billion, compared to $2.54 billion last year, reflecting 21 per cent increase.

India, China dominate globally

India and China dominated the global gold market in terms of consumer demand during the second quarter of the year over same quarter last year. Global consumer demand for gold totalled 1,083 tonnes in the quarter, showing a year-on-year increase of 53 per cent. Globally, jewellery demand was up 37 per cent in the quarter to 576 tonnes from 421 tonnes in the same quarter last year, reaching its highest level since third quarter of 2008. Cont. @

Spartacus Rex
Aug 17, 2013 - 2:02am

Cash and Congress: The Tie that Binds. By Michael Winship

"Just the other day, The New York Times reported that one of the plushest places at the table in the capitol is a seat on the House Financial Services Committee, the one that allegedly regulates the banks and Wall Street. In the first half of this year, political action committees “set up by lobbying firms, unions, corporations and other groups trying to push their agenda in Congress” have given more money to its members — nearly nine and a half million dollars — than any other committee.

So many members are clamoring for a seat at the trough that extra chairs had to be installed in the committee room. Freshmen members from both parties, wide-eyed and ripe for the picking, are particular targets for the money machine. One lobbyist told Times reporter Eric Lipton, “It is almost like investing in a first-round draft pick for the NBA or NFL. There is potential there. So we make an investment, and we are hopeful that investment produces a return.” " Cont. @

Spartacus Rex
Aug 17, 2013 - 2:08am

@ CL

Re: "What is your problem with me?" It is not I who owns the "problem". So am I to take it that you honestly do not recognize all of the blatant errors, flaws and assumptions you made last Friday? Frankly after reading and re-reading same, I don't even see how you made 2nd Year!

Aug 17, 2013 - 2:11am

@spartacus, ag1969 - please elaborate lawful money

I would be very curious to learn of this exemption, and the redemption process that AG1969 referred to previously. Is there some tax benefit to withdrawing your paycheck (already taxed before I get it) from the bank in treasury issued coin (nickels, etc)? Or is this the writing 'redeemed for lawful money' on the bill thing? Thanks in advance for any specific sections of title 26 that shed light on this.
  • Kudos, if indeed you are one of the .00001% who actually know the specific Section under Title 26 which provides for the tax write off for debasement of the currency. Furthermore, I trust that you realize that said redemption no longer can transpire at any branch of the Phederal Reserve System, thus must occur through the U.S. Treasury via the U.S. Mint.

edit - this may be it:

Federal Reserve Act - Remedy
James Burke
Aug 17, 2013 - 2:55am



The value of an asset must possess energy. We mean that in order to have acquired this asset, energy had to have been spent. Be it human energy or mechanical energy both driven by energy, be it natural or mechanical, that cannot be changed no matter the location or individuals or machinery involved.


By studying Roman history, we know of the hardships to discover gold and silver, extract them, refine them and mint them. Men died in this endeavor. Therefore the value of gold and silver at that time was a function of the energy, time and risk spent in producing a finished gold and silver product.

Aug 17, 2013 - 4:12am

Titanic gold lifeboats, youtube vid

Youtube search "Titanic lifeboat gold".

Incredibly convincing cartoon video ~3:00 minutes long!


Donate Shop

Get Your Subscriber Benefits

Exclusive discount for silver purchases, and a private iTunes feed for TF Metals Report podcasts!

Key Economic Events Week of 3/25

3/26 8:30 ET Housing Starts (Feb)
3/27 8:30 ET Trade Deficit (Jan)
3/28 8:30 ET Q4 GDP final guess
3/28 10:00 ET Pending Home Sales (Feb)
3/29 8:30 ET Personal Income (Feb)
3/29 8:30 ET Consumer Spending and Core Infl. (Jan)
3/29 9:45 ET Chicago PMI
3/29 10:00 ET New Home Sales (Feb)

Key Economic Events Week of 3/18

3/19 10:00 ET Factory Orders (Jan)
3/20 2:00 ET FOMC Fedlines
3/20 2:30 ET CGP presser
3/21 8:30 ET Philly Fed
3/22 9:45 ET Markit PMIs
3/22 10:00 ET Existing Home Sales
3/22 10:00 ET Wholesale Inventories (Jan)

Key Economic Events Week of 3/11

3/11 8:30 ET Retail Sales (Jan)
3/11 10:00 ET Business Inventories (Dec)
3/12 8:30 ET CPI (Feb)
3/13 8:30 ET Durable Goods (Jan)
3/13 8:30 ET PPI (Feb)
3/14 8:30 ET Import Prices (Feb)
3/14 10:00 ET New Home Sales (Jan)
3/15 8:30 ET Empire State Manu Index
3/15 9:15 ET Cap. Util. & Ind. Prod.

Recent Comments