Waiting For Wyoming

Wed, Aug 29, 2012 - 11:27am

Lots of fun and games this morning as the "markets" attempt to anticipate what The Almighty Bernank may mutter later this week in Wyoming. Please try to maintain your sanity.

What a joke this all is. It's the last week of summer for most folks and hardly anyone is watching. The Europeans are on "holiday" and the U.S. is anticipating the 3-day, Labor Day weekend. With no one around, it becomes literal child's play for The Cartels to lead the spec algos around by their collective noses. Throw in some obtuse, end-of-week Bernank remarks and you've got a perfect setup for thin volume volatility.

I see that gold is being hammered lower this morning. Whatever. As if suddenly all of the holders of physical metal are desperate to unload it in exchange for fiat. All we are seeing is spec algo tripping. This shoves price lower and allows The Cartel to cover some of their recently-added shorts at a profit. How many new shorts were created last week and early this week in their vain attempt to contain gold below $1680? Well, if you can now cover those shorts at or below 1660 you make a tidy little profit for your desk AND replenish your ammo for defending 1680 the next time price surges back up there. It's just a game and one that you should be using to your advantage. Buy all dips. Period. End of story.

Silver, too, has lost the momentum and desire needed to jam toward new highs. Whatever. No worries. After a 10%+ run-up in under two weeks, a little pause is good. PLEASE use any and all dips to add to your stack. If trading, I'd be looking to use any dip toward 30.25 as a possible entry point.

Moving on...I spoke last evening with Rahul at Altinvestors. He asked me beforehand if I'd like to create the same stir that Bill Murphy did last week. I told him that I had no interest in being quite that provocative. Nonetheless, I think you'll enjoy the discussion. As an aside, Rahul entitled this "Turd Ferguson - Silver Smackdown Ahead". That's not really what this is about nor is it quite accurate. Early in the interview, I mention that The Bernank will likely "disappoint" on Friday and, given the current makeup of the CoT, a raid of some sort is likely. I firmly believe that robust physical demand will blunt any concerted effort to drive prices back down and into their summer-long ranges. As mentioned above, any and all dips should be bought, not sold. Massive changes and rallies are coming and you do not want to be caught flat-footed.

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Please pay particular attention to the discussion of the "gold standard". All of the political talk in the U.S. centers around whether or not this is an option and whether or not it is even feasible. What no one ever mentions is that it is inevitable. It is NOT an option. Sometime soon, in the next 1-5 years, the Chinese acting alone or in consortium, will offer a new unit of global trade settlement. This new unit will be at least partially gold/precious metal backed. As this unit will rapidly become the preferred unit for settling trade, demand for dollars will drop precipitously. The U.S. will be left with no other choice but to devalue the dollar by linking it to a price of gold that is multiples higher than current levels.

For laughs, here is a link to a Douchebag Nadler commentary from yesterday where he discusses some of this. Thanks to "tabberto" for bringing it to my attention. Pay special attention to this little nugget: "Professor Mehmet Dicle (Loyola University New Orleans) notes that a) there is little evidence that gold prices have provided protection against inflation in the 1999-2007 period and that b) gold’s reputation as a stock market hedge is largely undeserved." I would strongly suggest that if you are currently paying tuition for yourself or your child to attend Loyola University of New Orleans, you should withdraw immediately as it is quite clear that the place is populated with complete idiots. "Little evidence that gold protected against inflation from 1999-2007" while gold was rising 15-20% per year? Simply amazing. https://www.kitco.com/ind/Nadler/20120827.html

And here's a MarketWatch gold standard story that, to its credit, at least isn't the same 100% BS Keynesian tripe that every other news outlet seems to be running. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/even-talk-of-a-gold-standard-would-boost-the-price-2012-08-29?pagenumber=2

I've received several emails from folks concerned about Jim Quinn as he has abruptly stopped writing his blog at https://www.theburningplatform.com/. I was concerned, too, so I fired off an email and here is his response. The dude is tired and I certainly understand where he's coming from.

Hi Turd
Thanks for asking. I’m just burnt out from trying to run a blog 24/7, keep people entertained, and work my real job and raise my family. I think it is starting to affect my health, so I’m just going to step back from posting stuff daily. I hope my energy comes back and I can go back to writing an article once in a while.
I think my daily rage would put me in the grave sooner than I’d like.

Lastly, it appears that things are about to get seriously crazy in the MENA. If debka is correct on this, (and keep in mind that they've been very accurate lately, often leading the MSM by 24-48 hours), Russia is bugging out and advance of increasing "hostilities". NATO war on Syria comes with an explicit Iranian guarantee of Syrian military support. I would expect any NATO action to quickly lead to full, regional conflagration. Got UCO? https://www.debka.com/article/22314/Is-Russia-disengaging-from-Syria-Arms-shipments-stopped-warships-exit-Tartus

And, as a side note, what the hell is this? Two tons of uranium in Bolivia? https://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/08/28/bolivian-police-seize-2-tons-uranium/

OK, that's it. As I go to publish I see that The Evil Ones have tried to raid price a bit while I've been typing but they've been repelled. Gold hit 1655 but has since rebounded and silver bounced again off of 30.60. Hopefully, that concludes their efforts for today. We'll see.


About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


Aug 29, 2012 - 11:28am

I wanted to include this again

But couldn't find a place for it in the text.

Russians don't take a dump, son...
Aug 29, 2012 - 11:28am


tired of waiting!

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:29am

No.1 (2nd) Boo hoo

That's it its more fun that watching PM's

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:30am


Can somebody… anybody… please, help me?

There is an elephant in the room that I am aware of that I can’t get anyone else to notice, or to answer my questions, or simply comment on. With so many people in this realm of seeking answers I am amazed at the lack of response that I get when I point this out to people…

There is no shortage of people seeing a financial collapse coming on.

There are a lot of people who advise gathering gold and silver to maintain their wealth once such a collapse occurs.

A lot of people believe that the prices of gold and silver are being manipulated… that is, held down. And that one day this holding down will fail and prices on metals will skyrocket. Some people believe the EE will hold down prices as long as they can, and some believe that there will come a time where the EE will voluntarily remove their influence… that is, when they’ve reached the point they are ready “to bring it all down.”

The elephant in the room is the ratio of gold to silver. The current ratio is about 50 to 1. It’s been that way for a long time. The current coins produced by the US mint are marked with an ounce of silver being one dollar and the one ounce gold coin marked at being fifty dollars or 50 to 1. So my first question is this a coincidence? (There are no coincidences)

Everyone seems to promote the idea that the historic gold-silver ratio has been 16 to 1 (during the time that values on coins produced by the Mint were at a 20 to 1 ratio). The argument, or perhaps sales pitch, has been that silver, because it’s currently selling at a much higher ratio than it has historically, will be much more profitable than gold when it corrects to the 16 to 1 ratio.

If we assume that the “Powers that Be” are controlling the price, and could equally be controlling the ratio, and thus have created the current ratio in the market and by the minting of coins, then I believe we can assume that it is currently at the ratio they desire. If we further assume they can continue to maintain this ratio, even if they choose, or lose, the ability to keep prices down, then hopes for a return to 16 to 1 are all in vain.

Why would the EE want to keep the ratio at 50:1? … well, that’s easy… they don’t’ possess much silver… and silver is needed in manufacturing. Occamans Razor… the simplest solution is probably the correct one.

Why is that no one ever talks about this? .. that no one ever shares their thoughts on this?

For the record, I own both silver and gold, and I sure hope things return to their historic ratio. But this line or reasoning haunts me, and I’m frustrated and confused why so many folks, who run websites and metals firms, people that are obviously smarter than I, yet this line of reasoning is never brought up in the same presentation as when they tout the advantage of silver over gold because of the current insane high ratio. Why is that? It gives me the same creepy feeling as when the MSM gives that line “nothing to see here folks, move along”.

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:31am


Two firsts. Now there's a first!

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:33am

QE or QE--that is the question

There is absolutely NO question that there will be QE. The government NEEDS ongoing, heavy-duty QE to operate. It sells bonds weekly--sometimes several times per week, by the hundreds of $billion. In the last 11 months, the government borrowed another $1,000,000,000,000 just to keep operating, as taxes weren't nearly enough.

The question is, will the Bernank ANNOUNCE QE? I think not. He knows that him even mentioning the acronym causes food, energy, and PM prices to rise--a situation the govy abhors. Of course, the Fed will do QE bigtime--if not, JPM would fail in days, as would every other TBTF bank on earth.

No, the Bernank will continue to say that deflation is not a threat, there are some good things happening in the "recovery" and that the Fed will stand by with tools to provide liquidity "if needed." All while his hidden hand is on the "print" lever.

The day will come when the Bernank will indeed announce QE. All it will take is a stock market repeat of 2008, or a bond market debacle. Who in their right mind would buy a bond with "guaranteed loser" written on its face? At negative interest rates, the only thing that can happen is for rates to go up. What greater fool is gonna be there to buy these pieces of dog$hit when it all comes apart? When his system is again under severe strain, Bernank will announce mucho QE, helicopter drops of FRNs, free C-notes at every Social Security office (reason for the bullet order--could be some trouble!), whatever it takes to protect his banker-elites.

It's real simple for the govy and the TBTF banks--inflate or die. Everything else is hooie. They will extend and pretend as long as they can, until the new financial system is wheeled out during a bank holiday.

The best thing to do is to stock up on physical gold and silver for the long-term with excess fiat. One must also prepare to get through to the long-term by having a 3-6 month supply of food/water and fiat currencies, and a means to protect it all.

Everything the Fed, pols, bankers, MSmedia, etc. say is meant to confuse. But remember--inflate or DIE. All else is hogwash.

note-a repost from previous string

Money By Trading
Aug 29, 2012 - 11:35am

Gold's swing high

Looking for gold to continue generally down at least until Friday.


Aug 29, 2012 - 11:35am

The dip is coming ...

The dip is coming ...

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:36am

Alt Investors interview

Early in the interview, I mention that The Bernank will likely "disappoint" on Friday and, given the current makeup of the CoT, a raid of some sort is likely.

Thanks for the clarification, sir. I was reading some comments on the Silver Doctors blog this morning, and it seemed that some folks were confused.

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:47am


According to Mike, Italy doesn't have people who WANT to sell there gold, they HAVE to.


Portugal the same.


That will be the sad state of affairs IMO. When people who don't want to sell, but HAVE to sell w/ these manipulated prices. I know I've read many on this very site that had to do that same thing during the last "consolidation." I have been fortunate that I have not had to sell any yet. Some others may not have been so lucky, and I understand their frustration. But that's the volatility we live in now if you were not fortunate enough to buy before all of the huge legs up. Hopefully, everyone has a larger time table, and can be patient enough to win out.

ancientmoney TD
Aug 29, 2012 - 11:47am


Silver Eagles came out in 1986 as did gold Eagles. My guess is that the current prices were around 50:1 then, and so that's what the mint went with. As we know from recent experience, the ratio got to 35:1 in April 2011 due to market forces. 

The manipulators try to flummox people, to keep them from buying silver, as it is the elites' collective Achille's heel. 

Silver and gold are found in nature at a ratio of about 12Ag to 1 Au. Much of the mined silver is gone, while almost all the mined gold exists. So, the ratio of available silver to gold is maybe 1:1.

Remember, the govy tries to confuse. They do not want people buying silver. But they don't want to cause a ruckus by making it off-limits. At least, not yet.

I guess if they tried to enforce a 50:1 ratio, they could try, but it would be like trying to stuff 10 pounds of $hit in a 5 pound bag if the market says otherwise.

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:48am

Matter of First Choice

...and that is the FUNDAMENTALS.

Pay no attention and give little weight to the day-to-day machinations, of the severely controlled and manipulated markets. They matter little to the long term outcome. And what is that outcome you may ask? At the current course of global politico/economic direction, this global broken financial system must be replaced sooner, rather than later.

There is of course only one thing to completely trust, and that is owning and holding precious metals outside the criminal system. When looking at the fundamentals, both micro and macro, under a microscope, one sees nothing but trouble ahead. The only change being worse, not better.

Europe is being used to deflect attention away from the dire situation in the US, as states, cities, towns, counties, start to default and declare bankruptcy. Consider all the attention that Greece has received versus what California has received. Greece is an economic insect in size compared to California, since the Cali economy is the size of Spain,Italy and Greece's put together!

Keep your eyes on the fundamentals. BTFD

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:52am

@TD - AU/AG ratio

The problem is that it's all opinion. Here's mine:

The AG:AU ratio hasn't been 50:1 for a long time. 50 years does not make a long time when we have history that goes back 3-5K years. So AG:AU at 50:1 is relatively new.

My opinion is that the metals are being manipulated "by accident" - not by some grand conspiracy theory. AU was money. Even when the US went off AU (both times '33/'72), it was still considered money. So AU never really went away as money. AG however is different. In the last 100 years, a good percentage of the population stopped considering AG as money. When AG started being a serious industrial metal, the countries around the world that use to think AG was money but no longer, made their stockpiles available. That means cheap AG. The US got rid of a billion ounces by itself. There was also huge stockpiles everywhere else (silver coins - no longer considered as money). So this huge supply overhang created a significant drag on prices. So supply in AG overwhelmed demand in silver, but not gold, so the ratio went from 16:1 to 70:1 at one point.

But - no one has realized that the supply overhang is gone. Silver became hard to get around 2000, and been harder and harder to get as time went on. But all of the traders - based on a life time (25 years) of experience - know in their hearts that AG:AU should be 50:1.

So - silver could explode to $200 without the world financial systems collapsing. Just pure supply and demand. And if the world economy starts going - the AG:AU ratio could get to 10:1 or less, because that's where the supply sits. Think about AU at 3000 and a 5:1 ratio. 

My 2 cents anyway...

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:56am

50 to 1 GSR


I'll take a stab at prodding that elephant.

Given that the US mint is cranking out coins with 50 to 1 face value, then that is what TPTB desire the ratio to be--and they have done a fair job of keeping it at that. The coincidence makes a probable argument.

Your argument chain runs like this (in my cluttered mind) more or less:

EE wants GSR at 50/1 --- GSR is 50/1 for US Mint -- TPTB is powerful --- therefore TPTB likely controls mint. TPTB wil continue to control GSR-- therefore GSR will stay stable at 50/1

I disagree. There are several "reservations" to that argument.

1. The TPTB lost control of AG 15 months ago and resorted to criminal acts to regain it. They are not all powerful

2. The impact of Lehmann in 2008 caught TPTB by surprise. They are not all knowing.

3. Supply & Demand pressures market for lower GSR (see SRS Rocco posts)

4. We are part of a global economy with other powerful players who oppose the TPTB

Thus, while I don't want to underestimate their power, I do not see the strength the TPTB needs to keep this system going. How long? is the question. But when it does unravel, I expect 10k gold and a $200 silver (GSR 50/1). I'll take that trade. If the GSR does move lower once TPTB power is broken, so much the better.

So what is the elephant in TPTB's room? I think I'd rather have this one in ours.

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:56am

@ TD

Very good observation, I myself have wondered that same thing. Regardless though silver will still skyrocket, It should be over $100 right now just to adjust for inflation let alone the 16:1 ratio. Adjusted for inflation, silver sky rockets. Adjusted for historic ratio, silver sky rockets. Adjusted for both, all of our computer screens blow up. yes

Aug 29, 2012 - 11:56am


I am a little unsure about exactly what you are asking. You laid out a lot of facts but what exactly do you want our thoughts on? Whether or not the GSR will correct to historic levels? Why would we assume that TPTB will be able to control it? If they lose control of price fixing, why would we assume they will still be able to control GSR?

Edit: Just to be clear, I am assuming that your progression of facts is stating that you believe "price fixing", or manipulation will end and true price discovery, based on market supply and demand will take over. I don't understand how TPTB could lose control of their criminal scheme allowing a price explosion, yet maintain control over GSR? Suffice it to say that when a coin that says $1 on it costs $35, I would conclude that what they print on the coin is not what is important, rather what is the content of the coin. Yes? no?

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:01pm

50 to 1 GSR

Eric Sprott: "Expect The Gold To Silver Ratio To Hit Single Digits" 04/20/2011

How can we be so confident that the price of silver will continue on its upward trajectory? Our thesis is premised on the most rudimentary of economic principles – supply and demand.

One of the key indicators that we’ve been monitoring is the gold/silver ratio. Much has been written about the ratio of late, and we won’t go into great detail on the subject, other than to note that the last time money was synonymous with defined amounts of gold and silver, the ratio was set at 16-to-one. In fact, for most of the past millennium, one ounce of gold would have been convertible to somewhere between 10 and 16 ounces of silver - an amount roughly in line with the relative occurrence of each mineral within the earth’s crust.1 For the better part of the past century, due to the world’s abandonment of bimetallism and then the gold standard, the gold/silver ratio has fluctuated widely, twice reaching lows near the 15-to-one mark and a high of 100-to-one back in the early 1990’s. The most recent high reached in the latter part of 2009 was nearly 80-to-one. Since then the ratio has been tumbling to where it stands now at 35-to-one – which reflects the incredible outperformance of silver over that time period. In our opinion, this ratio will continue to move lower, driven by nothing more than basic supply/demand fundamentals.

The US Mint, which is the world’s largest silver and gold coin manufacturer, recently reported that it had sold 13 million ounces of silver coins and 370 thousand ounces of gold coins on a year-to-date basis.2 This means that the US Mint is now selling roughly equal amounts of silver and gold in dollars so far this year. Furthermore, bullion dealers like Sprott Money and GoldMoney have confirmed with us that they are now selling more silver than gold in dollar terms. For additional confirmation of this investment trend, just look at the flows for the two largest gold and silver ETFs. Investors have withdrawn approximately $3 billion from the GLD so far this year while the SLV has seen net inflows of $370 million over the same period. Dollar for dollar, investors are allocating as much if not more money to silver than to gold. And why shouldn’t they? Silver is much more of a "precious" metal than the current ratio of 35-to-one would suggest.
To explain, we must first address mine supply. In 2010, the world mined approximately 736 million ounces of silver and 85 million ounces of gold.3 The world also produced an additional 215 million ounces of silver and 53 million ounces of gold from recycled scrap.4 Adding both together brings us 951 million ounces of silver and 139 million ounces of gold supply, for a ratio of nine ounces of silver to one ounce of gold.

Interestingly, this 9-to-one ratio is very similar to the ratio of available in-situ silver and gold reserves. The U.S. Geological Survey estimates that there are current in-situ reserves of approximately 16.4 billion ounces of silver versus 1.6 billion ounces for gold, or about a 10-to-one ratio.5

The case for silver is even more compelling when one considers the ramifications of its dual role as both an investment and industrial metal. Last year, non-investment demand for silver (which includes industrial, photographic, and silverware demand) totaled approximately 610 million ounces.6 This represents approximately 64% of primary supply, leaving approximately 341 million ounces to satisfy investment demand.7 On the gold side, industrial usage totaled 13 million ounces, or about 10% of primary supply, leaving approximately 125 million ounces left over for investment demand.8 So, after netting out the industrial usage the primary supply left over for investment demand is about 2.7 times that for gold. However, if we convert those ounces to dollars at current prices, we’re left with $15 billion worth of silver available for investment versus $186 billion worth of gold, or a one-to-13 ratio of silver to gold! This means that in terms of primary supply, silver only has 8% of the capacity for investment that gold does despite having equal if not more dollars flowing into it.

Now, it’s true that another potential source of supply is the very silver that investors already own - and at the right silver price these inventories of silver and gold bullion may be sold into the market to supplement any supply shortfalls. As we’ve noted previously, however, due to decades of underinvestment, the amount of silver bullion inventories are actually extremely small, even compared to those of gold.9 Recent estimates suggest that reported silver bullion inventories stand at roughly 1.2 billion ounces versus 2.2 billion ounces of gold bullion, or roughly a 0.5-to-one ratio.10 To put that amount in perspective, consider that at present there is only $52 billion worth of silver bullion/coins and over $3.3 trillion worth of gold in inventory which could potentially be recirculated into the market. Converting this to a ratio, you get a one-to-63 ratio of silver to gold inventories. So how is silver still priced at 35-to-one?!

All indications lead us to believe that there is now roughly an equal amount of investment flowing into silver and gold on a dollar-for-dollar basis. And although the price ratio of silver to gold has fallen substantially since the highs of 2009, our analysis strongly suggests that this ratio must move lower to restore a fundamental balance between supply and demand. Only time will tell how much lower it will go, but we would not be surprised to see it hit single digits before settling into a more sustainable equilibrium.

What the so-called silver ‘experts’ neglect to account for in their models and projections is that the fiat money experiment has failed. And in this context, we believe the Market has assigned world reserve currency status to gold - not USD, not EUR, and not JPY. In our opinion, gold’s continued appreciation vis-à-vis every currency is assured because the great flight from fiat has only just begun. Like gold, silver also has a long monetary history, and as such, investors are now also buying silver as protection from the ravages of fiat currency debasement. Yet, when compared to gold, it is silver that offers the most attractive value proposition by virtue of the gross mispricing of its scarcity, which, we might add, has existed for many years. Thus, in our opinion, as this new bimetallic standard takes root, silver investors will continue to be justly rewarded with marked outperformance. We truly believe that this is the investment opportunity of a lifetime, and increasingly so, others are taking heed. What is clear to us is that with equal investment dollars now flowing into silver and gold, the current 35-to-one ratio is unsustainable and has only one direction to go: lower.


Aug 29, 2012 - 12:05pm

@Dagney GSR silver bottom

The worst that could happen I think is a down sloping head and shoulders on GSR, with coming right shoulder close to /above a bit 56. In that case I a also think silver min 29. Which would mean Gold close to 1630. GSR trend is pushing up silver bottom.

On other hand, as I expect GSR to move to 30:1 in 6 months , there is not so much time for pullbacks. Guaranteed, that last phase will be the fastest, so let us say 40:1 in 4 months, last 10 in 2 months, which means almost 4 units of GSR per month in first 4 months, or 1 unit per week. 1 Unit per week requires , while 1 unit in GSR is about 1, 5 USD in silver now, or 5% weekly growth.

If we have a pullup to 56 (silver down to 29) we will have than week after a 3 USD move in silver up to 32 to reach 54 again. There is not much time for fluctuations in silver price/GSR. On average, the decline of GSR/growth in silver should be rather steady now. We could have a slower start with all the events till mid September, but not much longer- there is just not enough time.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:07pm


Thanks for the update TF.

We are living in the shadow of the falling shoe(s) that might land on any of the problem area's we know all too much about. All the stars are aligning in MENA and the silence of the falling shadow is deafening at this point. 

In the meantime, here's something picturesque and positive. smiley

Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming - Destination Video
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Video unavailable
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:07pm

Anyone and @ outlookingin

Me thinks you are correct, understanding the Fundamentals to the metals markets are the keys to retaining your wealth and sanity. I cannot afford to dwell upon the latest machinations of metals manipulation, tptb will do what they do best and that is to hold onto the reins of power anyway they are able, in the meantime, I will just keep doing what I have been doing for the past 20 years since I left investment brokerage and decided to take use of my own time to build and keep my own estate. cheers! and happy trails.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:07pm

The monetary Maginot of the Gold Standard

 Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Economics Last updated: August 29th, 2012

49 Comments Comment on this article

Some gold bugs – though not ones with historical memory – seem to have greeted Republican talk of a renewed Gold Standard with near ecstatic delight.

They need their heads examined. Gold must be free if it is to police the political class.

The beauty of gold is that it is a store of value beyond political or state control, or largely so.

It is a coldly disassociated asset based on atavistic attachment dating back thousands of years. It is common to mankind, and therefore nigh impossible to suppress. It is, to boot, a safe haven from tyranny, the portable wealth of persecuted peoples over the ages.

Once governments link their policies and fortunes to gold through a fixed system, the metal – or its owner – becomes prisoner of abuse.

The reason why Franklin Roosevelt confiscated private gold in 1933 is because the Gold Standard blocked his economic strategy

Full article:


Aug 29, 2012 - 12:11pm


Bernank is the most sleaziest person of the last half century. Take a look in his eyes when he talk. For example, when Ron Paul asked him about gold, he gave the sleaziest answer of the century. This clown will be the death of America. At the very last minute before the fall of the U.S. - this fool will will address the nation that he did what he could. What this snake. PLEASE DO NOT BELIEVE THIS SCORPION, he will sting your ass when you least expect it. His sting will be so vicious, that you will never recover from his bite.

ACM OrangeAlert
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:15pm

Gold For Food & Necessities

I think Krieger is seeing people selling Dad's gold watch and a piece or two of heirloom jewelry. These are not stackers. They are the bottom of the ladder folks. When that stuff is sold they are "Winchester" resources.

It is far worse and much sadder than a stacker having to peel off a roll or two of silver or a gold coin or two for a car or mortgage payment etc.

We here are the lucky ones. We have the collective knowledge and at least until the last few years of Bush and Obongo, we had the resources to buy or convert other savings or investments to metal.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:16pm


Excellent questions you raise, and you may be absolutely right that 50:1 is the "target" ration.

Supply and demand will eventually force a reversion to its natural ratio.......at some point.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:21pm

Removed comment

Removed comment.

Comicus TD
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:26pm

Reply to "anybody?"

Hi, Here are some points that might help with your questions:

1.) You wrote, "..we can assume that it is currently at the ratio they desire..."

JPM could care less about the S/G ratio. They have manipulated silver to the extent that they have in order to make as much money as they could. The high S/G ratio is not their objective but rather it is a result of their manipulation.

2.) You wrote, "Why would the EE want to keep the ratio at 50:1? … well, that’s easy… they don’t’ possess much silver… and silver is needed in manufacturing. Occamans Razor… the simplest solution is probably the correct one."

JPM etal. does not care about the needs of manufacturers for low priced silver. Banksters have manipulated silver more heavily than gold because it is a much smaller market and therefore much easier to manipulate. The bias toward suppressing the price likely comes from the PTB where they have told JPM that they can get away with murder in the silver market and in exchange the PTB have given assurances to JPM that there will be no prosecution.

The manipulation was much easier becaue there were HUGE stockpiles of silver. This is clearly no longer the case and the day of reckoning is drawing very, very near. The reason why silver has greater potential is because its price has been more greatly suppressed. Once the suppression ends it is only logical that the S/G ratio return to 16:1. I believe it will likely go even lower because silver will have investment demand as a monetary metal PLUS industrial demand.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:31pm

@TD 50-1

I remember buying a Canadian coin made from electrum back in the mid 1980's. It had a $100 face value. This was very close to the value of the gold in the coin, which did not seem unreasonable at the time because coins traditionally were worth approximately their face value. 

Then the price of gold fell again and some one began saying they were going to circulate these coins to buy more gold than was in the coin and there would be PMs in circulation again!

The US mint (or congress actually) took this lesson to heart in 1986 and put rediculous low face values on their bullion coins ( $1 on silver and $50 on gold). Most people, including myself, thought that these values were offensively low but we got used to it.

The 50 - 1 ration on the eagle coins don't mean nothing, it's just the way that the mint makes sure these coins never circulate.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:33pm

@ Patrancus & Jdawg

The corporatist/politico elites cannot allow the economic illusion to falter, even a little, to the bitter end. As the fraud begins to fade ever more, the elitist force intensifies, becoming almost rabid in its deflection. Because the illusion has become the center of their being, a mythological justification for their existence.

Their ideology has been a lie, they are not heroes and gods on earth, but monsters and criminals, and their life has been self-serving and meaningless, without significance and honor.

To the bitter end then. Much too late to fix this broken system now. All one can do is to protect yourself and your families from what is to come, as best you can. Good luck.

thisismynewname Anonymous
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:38pm


If TPTB were thinking that they needed AG for national security reasons, they would allow the price of AG to rise significantly. If the price is higher - demand is lower - and more is available to the military. I don't think "they" are thinking about this at all. Bankers and traders are keeping the price of AG low - because it's been such a huge money maker for them for the past 30 years. Just think about "storing" someone's silver - and charging them a fee every year to "hold" it for them - if you know you can get it cheap when ever the sucke... err customer asks for delivery. If there's no storage facility, and you don't hold any silver - just think how much you can make in "storage" fees. There have been more than one lawsuit that exposed this practive in the past 10 years.

I think we give these people too much credit. We're the smart ones - we see the market dislocation and can profit from it. They are trying to maintain the status quo. Good grief - stocks have been dead money for 12 years now and the metals have been in a bull market for 10 - and no one knows! It's just ridiculous.

Aug 29, 2012 - 12:42pm

@ TURD - Altinvestors Interview

Thanks for the update Turd. Listened with interest to your the interview with Rahul. Late on you discuss the prob. necessity of a return to gold standard, Rahul discussed a fractional reserve gold std. Assuming he is correct that the fiat currency may be backed by 30% gold, I wonder if gold will be leapfrogged and the PTB go straight to a silver backed currency. Interestingly Armstrong argues that there is no way govts. will agree to the straightjacket of a gold standard.

Personally think the way forward will be a debt jubilee, what Prof. Steve Keen advocates, or for example countries "do an Iceland" and stick two fingers up to the bondholders. This way govts can eradicate the problem, DEBT, and start again with a brand new fiat currency and make the same mistakes all over again.

Either way the pgms will protect your wealth, but trying to calculate how many devalued USD or GBP etc. your gold or silver will be worth is to miss the point imho. Rather that you keep your wealth relative to the sheeple who get cleaned out.

Interestingly the Deputy PM in the UK, Nick Clegg is now advocating a one of Super Tax for the SuperRich. One off will become every year, just like Hollande in France and his 75% tax! (lets all suffer to pay the elite!) They just don't get it. The problem is the very system they are part of, the bloated public sector and the entitlement society.

Keep up the good fight! Appreciate it.

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