Fair and Balanced

Thu, May 10, 2012 - 3:35pm

I stumbled across this video today and thought it could serve as a basis for an interesting discussion.

Note that this presentation was made by a lady named Caroline, who is a self-described "federal government employee" and "member of the American Federation of Government Employees". Also note that, as I type this, it has a total of 80 views. (I hope that she has enabled Adsense as she is about to get a few hits!)

The first seven minutes or so are facts that we can all agree upon. The deficit is there and to cut it would require some significant changes to the federal structure. Then, at around the 7:00 mark, Caroline proposes her remedies. This is the crux of the matter and be sure to hear her out before you respond.

On one side of the argument, the deficit is not sustainable but government is vital, perhaps even too small, and it needs more funding through higher taxes. These extra taxes will close the deficit.

On the other side of the argument, the deficit is not sustainable and government spending needs to be trimmed and restructured. This slowing of government growth and outright reduction in spending will close the deficit.

My questions to you are:

  • How do we reconcile these two points of view?
  • Is it possible to achieve the level of political cooperation needed to make it happen?
  • Can we discuss this in a civil manner here on TFMR? If not, how can we expect the politicians to do any better?
The Federal Deficit Explained
  • Bonus question: What is my point in starting this discussion?


About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


The Body
May 10, 2012 - 7:51pm

Bonus Question

Not only did I destroy a perfectly good mouse watching that video, I scared the crap out of my dogs yelling at my monitor.

It's nice knowing after all the cutting, we'll still have 97% of Tim Geithner left. The country wouldn't be totally lost in her doomsday, government gutting scenario. Whew.

I'm guessing you posted that because you just bought a crate of rifles and want to unload them super-quick.

If things ever go Revolutionary style and Turd becomes our personal Paul Revere, I suggest showing this video to rally the troops.

May 10, 2012 - 7:51pm

Raise taxes?

Haven't read the other comments yet but heres my thoughts. Just finished watching that video. During the part where she cut all the government agencies I could feel a sense of freeeedom washing over me as each one dissapeared. Imagine cutting away the CIA, FEMA, Defence., .... ahhhh. Imagine all that misspent wealth floating around a productive unmanipulated economy. I feel like crying, then she ruined it by talking about how the governemnt is not too big it is too little!!!!!!! These Keynsian ideas seriously need to be thrown out. Come on the emporer has no clothes anyone can see the central bankers are the cause.

She didn't seem to talk about the end of the dollar as a global reserve. Or other problems inherent in the monetary system.

The ONLY way the budget will ever balance is when the quantity of money supply cannot be adjusted by bankers (or anyone else).

End the Fed.

WangDang Doodle
May 10, 2012 - 7:54pm

Strategy for more QE

Just thinking out loud here; but it occurs to me that all of these TBTF banks have all kinds of skeletons in their closet and when the need for more QE comes out they just pull one out to crash the market down.

As many have pointed out, QE is not about the economy or pumping the stock market but about funding the small, protective, here to help government we have, and they can't get the funding AND keep interest rates down with out Benny running the ink jets. If the economy improves or the stock market rises well that's just icing on the cake.

Waiting for the economy to roll over and/or Europe to implode is going to take too long, so roll out a catalyst to crash the market and give the FED cover to roll out QE infinity. JPM will have unlimited back stopping by the FED should they need it.

June announcement for QE just got real.

May 10, 2012 - 8:01pm

I am just going straight to the bonus question...

No matter which way we go, we are porked. Can you say Kobayashi Maru. Unless you cheat the system, just keep stacking.

May 10, 2012 - 8:02pm
Big Buffalo
May 10, 2012 - 8:02pm

In the spirit of the Kentucky Derby..

and Pining 4 the Fjords leaping past Be Prepared with an outstanding post currently at 67 hat tips, SRSrocco next in sight.

Does Pining 4 the Fjords have it in him for another 60 bagger. . .does SRSrocco have some tricks up his sleeve....

Btw - producing at home is fantastic, to grow something with your bare hands, spend time with family, to make and produce something yourself, to not have to "earn" $1, but only be able to spend $0.65 of it. It's an amazing feeling. Good for the sole, good for family, good for environment, good for your health.

edit: pulling up the rear of leaders are I Run Bartertown and Green Lantern by a hair . . .

May 10, 2012 - 8:07pm

JPs loss today...

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of sociopaths :)

That being said, we've gotta hope that this little 2 billion loss is just the beginning or this is an unimportant blip. Jamie pays more than that for executive toilet seats.

Big Buffalo
May 10, 2012 - 8:11pm

If I were at that presentation

Caroline: blah, blah, blah

Me: Shut Up lady, if I wanted to hear an asshole talk, I would have farted.

I Run Bartertown
May 10, 2012 - 8:13pm


"The suicide note also mentions, several times, Stack's having issues with taxes, debt, and the IRS and his having a long-running feud with the organization.[33] While the IRS also has a larger regional office in Austin, the field office located in Echelon I performed tax audits, seizures, investigations and collections.[33]

The suicide note ended with:[31]

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)



In an interview with ABC's Good Morning America, Joe Stack's adult daughter, Samantha Bell, who now lives in Norway, stated that she considered her father to be a hero, because she felt that now people might listen. While she does not agree with his specific actions involving the plane crash, she does agree with his actions about speaking out against "injustice" and "the government."[


I summon the ghost of Joe Stack to haunt you . OK, I can't do that, but we used to have a voodoo priestess here...

May 10, 2012 - 8:20pm

Luv it




Dear Mr. Munger:

Recently, you rather arrogantly claimed that civilized people don't buy gold. I am not sure how you define civilized, but the comment struck me as odd since I thought you were a profit maximizing capitalist. You further said that gold does not compare in investment quality to operating businesses. Is this statement just an example of you talking your own book? Or, are you intentionally trying to mislead people? The reason I ask is that I bought gold in 2003 at $320 per ounce. Today it trades at $1,640 per ounce, or 5.1 times my cost basis. This investment has given me a compound annual return of 19.91% over a 9 year time frame. Frankly, I think you would be hard pressed to find another investment which has done so well in this timeframe. Of course, I could have done what you suggested and bought operating businesses. Let's look at how I would have done if I had purchased the DOW, the S&P500 or your stock, Berkshire Hathaway.

Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that over the last nine years the performance of those investors who invested in gold absolutely crushed the returns of stock investors? Yet gold investors are uncivilized? What is up with that? Are you crying foul because you are losing? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

When I saw your comment, two home-spun phrases, that I picked up as a youth in the Midwest, popped into my mind:

  • There is no fool like an old fool.
  • Better to remain silent and be thought stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

As a wealthy member of our society you can do as you please. But as a Director of a large public company it strikes me that you have an obligation to speak the truth. I have followed you and your partner, Warren, over the years and I know of your antagonism toward sound money and the gold standard. Such a position is not a surprise since your considerable fortunes have been amassed by gaming the fiat money system. Without bailouts of some of your largest portfolio companies Berkshire Hathaway's stock would be worth much less. Or, perhaps, even worthless. Frankly, those of us who have labored honestly in this capitalist system are fed up and disgusted with "crony capitalists" like you and your partner. Sure the system works for you. Let's see how you do in a sound money system. Perhaps that is why you are so hostile to the concept?


Lawrence W. Lepard"

May 10, 2012 - 8:21pm

The whole shootin' match is going up.

I'll simply repeat my last comment -

Fat Willie
May 10, 2012 - 8:32pm


Nothing to see here, move along. Fed will cover any losses, as many have said/posted. My .02 - this is bad, as everything else has been bad, for metals. But I do have a question. If these dumfucks can't manage their own prop desk, with every possible insider advantage, how in the fuck can they keep silver going down for 10 of the past 11 weeks?

I just find it interesting that they can flawlessly manipulate metals, for weeks on end, and yet this major screwup once again proves they are imbeciles. Maybe Jamie will put Blythe in charge of the prop desk? Or, alternatively, is managing gold and silver just easier than most would think?

Our one hope, IMO, is that they need to start "de-hedging" and hence start covering. Now THAT would be a rally to behold. But WTFDIK.

May 10, 2012 - 8:39pm


Here's where I am on this...12 minutes into this I am convinced that we couldn't exist without our government...NOT!

She misses something on the math...the population increased but the revenues did not. Why is this? Do we need more government just because we need more people? Is it the job for the government to provide some of the "services" that they do? Is it the government's job to provided (or make sure I've provided) for my retirement?

I've got to stop now before my head explodes and have another beer.

We are F'n doomed as a country. Greece, here we come!

May 10, 2012 - 8:43pm

Who knows. Maybe JPM shorted

Who knows. Maybe JPM shorted their own stock. Wouldn't surprise me.

I Run Bartertown
May 10, 2012 - 8:47pm


The Federal .gov is Caroline's 'other parents'?:

Coraline (3/10) Movie CLIP - Coraline's Other Parents (2009) HD

and they have a bunch of new IRS Revenuers:

Coraline (10/10) Movie CLIP - The Creepy Hand (2009) HD

To make people 'pay for their fair share' of the Magical Garden:

Coraline (5/10) Movie CLIP - The Magical Garden (2009) HD
May 10, 2012 - 8:50pm

JP global

Can JPM go the way of MF Global, and if it can then is tonight the end of the world as we know it?

May 10, 2012 - 8:52pm

@Groaner .... RE:- $1693 ???

Groaner said (on 9th May) :-

3 times now gold trying to break 1693.5

Bobbejaan replied (jestingly) :-

$1693.5 ???? .... Aren't you already happy enough with it jumping up $100 from the $1590's ?




It looks like you aren't the ONLY one having sexual fantasies about a $1690+ gold price in the last couple of days .... Check out the first line of :-

Harvey Organ's Daily Gold & Silver Report .... Thursday, May 10, 2012


Gold closed up today up by $1.40 to close the comex session at $1695.10


At least your daydream wishes are keeping good company, mon ami !


NB ... I WAS trying to email/message him to let him know so he could fix his typo (as the Anti-Gold brigade seems to love jumping on this sort of simple-typo as a means of dis-info or "exaggeration claims" against Pro-Golders), but I can't see any contact address on his page .... So IF anyone here can message him to correct it, I'd be grateful.


PS ... Reposted from end of last thread .... Sorry, guys. I didn't realise there was yet another new thread.

May 10, 2012 - 8:57pm

Oh my - what a good idea Turd.

Man this thing is complicated.....

What went wrong, I guess is the question.

All money is debt. #1 - More labour is siphoned off each and every year to give to folk who create no wealth.

Regulations are way too much #2 - Property law and a few more and that ought to be the lot.

Big corporoations (take Monsanato) they care nothing of poisoning folk for profit. This has real costs down the road. Externalities.

The medicated state. They discover a drug and then invent an illness to market it with.

Sense of entitlement for many. Some have forgotten what real hard work is. Everyone wants to be a manager. The real work hunger is gone. Apathy rules - Galt - pining et al. Compare the east and their work ethic.

Education and educated idiots. Spending their lives plugged into bollocks. Mindless brainwashing none product nonesense. Buying shit that serves no purpose.

Too many State/Gov employees. They do not pay tax you see. No - Gov gives more then takes some back. They might as well have given them the right amount to start with.

Scrap min wage.

Reduce the massive ATTACK budget.

Invest in public transport - massive public transport. The amount of WASTE of 30000 trucks and cars going down the same freeway every day every night for hour after hour. 1000's and 1000"s of gallons burnt per hour.

Efficiency - stop borrowing to buy shit you dont need. Stop watching mindless TV. Educate properly. Remove nearly all regulations. Make it easy to hire folk. Or milk your own bloody cow without having and inspector shoot it (and you).

Go back on a Gold standard. Stop immigration unless an individual add a lot to GDP. Stop suing folk for giving you a hot coffee.

And for Gods sake get that constitution back - indeed put Ron Paul in (yes it will be tough at first).

End the fed. Stop funding education by giving gov student loans. If the students are a good fiscal investment then they ought to be able to convince banks to loan to them. In other words - get government out of the way and give the market a chance. P Schiff style.

Also ----Only half the family worked in 1960. Now twice as many do. Kids no longer get quality time etc. Debt was very very small in 1960 and folk saved and paid for stuff. I for one have only ever borrowed money to buy property. I have never carried a balance over on a credit card. Even though I used to earn good money. I have never owned a new car.

Oh yes - bring back the rule of law - without that there is no hope.

Crash JPM buy Silver.

Rant over.


May 10, 2012 - 9:01pm

The guy is a plant.

The guy is a plant.

May 10, 2012 - 9:04pm

Stock market tomorrow

Futures starting to show a little downdraft. No problem. The PPT monkeys have been getting a workout lately, but so far, it's just been practice. Let's see if they can handle some heavy lifting.

If JPM's prop desk losses have anything to do with PMs, the B-cup Dominatrix is going to be one hell of a cranky-pants. Somehow, I have this feeling (hope; dream) that her little promo on CNBS a month ago plays into this mess. I'm just not a big fan of coincidence.

May 10, 2012 - 9:09pm
May 10, 2012 - 9:10pm

Not looking real confident is he?

Todays news is out of the blue and hasn't even begun to resonate yet.

May 10, 2012 - 9:14pm

Prince Charles as Weatherman

Maybe the blood sucking Royals are preemptively showing they are in touch with the tax slaves! "Look, we are not ammune to working like the commoners!" Maybe the first of many stunts to protect their heads? Next, we will hear of more oligarchical supported charities, like maybe a Soros anti starvation fund(as he buys up grainaries around the World to corner food supply). I would bet my left nut (and I rather like Mr. Left) that this is only the beginning for Royalty and Oligarchs attempting to placate the masses by appearing to surrender some of their stolen wealth!

May 10, 2012 - 9:15pm

He'll be up for promotion to

He'll be up for promotion to treasury sec. Before Jan 2013.

Dexter Morgan
May 10, 2012 - 9:22pm

My two cents

  • How do we reconcile these two points of view?

They are not reconcilable because of the existence of paper money, which guarantees growth of government due to the fact that there is no limit on spending. Except for extremely rare occasions in world history, balancing the budget under any discussion where paper money is involved is about as likely as monkeys flying in from Madagascar.

  • Is it possible to achieve the level of political cooperation needed to make it happen?

No, it is impossible because there is no limit on spending. We haven't even had a budget for 3 years, yet they spend all the more. A balanced budget is a farce because they don't even need a budget anymore.

  • Can we discuss this in a civil manner here on TFMR? If not, how can we expect the politicians to do any better?

Yes, agreed.

  • Bonus question: What is my point in starting this discussion?

There are 599 failed currencies in the history of the world. This one will be no different. The decision to protect yourself now is a no-brainer. What has worked in the past?

Big Buffalo
May 10, 2012 - 9:33pm

dollar index up, 80.30

Metals down. Hulk Smash!

May 10, 2012 - 9:34pm

Inside JPMorgan's Boardroom Tomorrow

Network - Money speech
May 10, 2012 - 9:43pm


lookout below

this tish is getting real, real quick

somebody has chained cinder blocks to the metals' feet and tossed em in the East River

meddle magic
May 10, 2012 - 9:43pm

man this beat down

stuff is getting old. hope this gets better soon.

May 10, 2012 - 9:45pm

Did anyone else notice

that she did not utter one peep about the federal debt?


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