Turd Traveling - Open Thread

Mon, Apr 9, 2012 - 8:13am

I am traveling today after spending the Easter weekend away with MrsF and the LTs.

I hope that by later today I will be able to post a review of the day's events as well as some updated charts. For now, this is simply an open thread. The only discussion item I have is this new post from Gonzalo Lira. Where Gonzalo excels is in forward thinking. In this piece, he alerts readers that Spain will be the next "eurozone crisis" and gets you wondering about just how this will all play out.


And I just found this interview of Uncle Ted. Please take the time to read it today.


That's all for now as we are packing things up and I can hear MrsF hollaring for me from the next room. I'd better get moving...if I know what's good for me.

More later. Have a great day. TF

About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


Apr 9, 2012 - 6:16pm

College, again

I wonder what percentage of degree/diploma programs have been abandoned before graduation in the past 20 years.

I wonder how that would correlate to situations where the parents thought it was their job to select and pay for the program?

I wonder how that would correlate to situations where the children moved back in with the parents?

For the most part, our generation has shielded children from reality and personal accountability at precisely the wrong time in history.

Dr G
Apr 9, 2012 - 6:15pm

I brutalized myself to 13

I brutalized myself to 13 years after high school. I'm in debt up to my eyeballs. For me to do what I wanted to do, however, there wasn't any other way to get there.

I can't imagine doing anything different because each day I go to work I'm doing something that I love. I'm very blessed.

(And my college degree is a BA in English, BS in Zoology, and a minor in Humanities. My coursework was science heavy, but I chose Humanities for degrees).

FritzDoctor J
Apr 9, 2012 - 6:10pm


"Perhaps a good liberal arts education in the classics, history, grammar, logic, Latin, philosophy, rhetoric would be the best thing going."

If they must go into debt to obtain this type of an education, I would not recommend it.

Dr G
Apr 9, 2012 - 6:08pm

Just the machines trading

Just the machines trading against themselves these days.

FritzCalifornia Lawyer
Apr 9, 2012 - 6:07pm

American Child Future

A couple of stable paths come to mind.

1) I travel globally. Everywhere I go welding is in demand and well compensated regardless of sophistication - even in depressed areas (valuable hard to replace stuff needs to be fixed). The time has come for young folks to regain at least one vocation. Welding is terrific. A large number of programs in most US cities starting at age 16 this is a good way to create a 'placeholder' should college not make sense at their time of graduation - or a young person has no interest in higher education.

2) The graying of the extractive resource industries is in full swing. Too many are retiring at once. This combined with a probable increasing (even if its marginal or flat) demand for stuff emanating from non developed countries makes for good work prospects. Now is the time to take a look at engineering or resource related degrees at leading programs that exist where extractive industries ALREADY PRODUCTIVELY operate. However, it will be critical to focus on those states that have good footing to make sure that their Universities can follow through on the education end. Alaska, North Dakota, Idaho, maybe Utah and maybe Colorado come to mind (I say maybe because these two states have been hit hard by constrains related to the current administration and/or hard greens).

3) Fund the youngster to go begin a business in Oman, UAE or Qatar - or just about anywhere in Southeast Asia. If the youngster is able to learn a language, has integrity, and decent organization skills then send them off. Language schools for the 'local language' to English are in high demand because most such schools are terrible. South America is also a good market for this, but you best have a trusted local individual looking out for your investment there. This is not much of an issue in the middle eastern countries mentioned, but can be in Southeast Asia.

Have fun with the conversation.

Apr 9, 2012 - 5:59pm

Liberal education

I'm glad Michigan forced engineering students to study humanities. In retrospect, I remember more about that then the technical classis I took (relativistic quantum mechanics, how useful). Identiying fallacies is the MOST important thing our children should be taught. It's fun to watch the network news and list the fallacies as they are spewed.

EE and Computer Science were the fields India decided they would concentrate on, and have flooded the western world with graduates. I've never met a mechanical engineer from India, or Pakistan for that matter. ME was looked down on by EE and CS students 30 years ago. Maybe that is why there is a shortage.

Apr 9, 2012 - 5:53pm

Summing up our stupidity

Government Explained
Apr 9, 2012 - 5:41pm


CA Lawyer, this is an excellent topic. Thanks for starting the discussion. Like Dr Jerome and Pourty, I think a classical education is important for understanding current events and formation of worldview. At the same time, kids certainly need practical skills. As the parent of a more creative type kid, that can be a challenge at times but we are trying to teach entrepreneurial skills that fit out child's interests and abilities.

Excalibur, I think, made a great point about it being ok to not know for sure, after all, how many of us actually wind up doing what we thought we would at 19 or 20, much less 10 or 15? At the same time, I think it's important to teach different ways of creating an income, which is different from much of what is taught at most colleges.

As Stephanie mentioned, college can be a great time to learn to "grow up," but to be honest I'm not sure that this generation of kids is going to have that luxury like some of us did. College is getting far too expensive to take lightly. As my kiddo would say, for some kids it's "teenage day care." Very expensive day care!

I think if a child shows some certain aptitudes, it is certainly worth it to pursue scholarship opportunities, but nothing can replace the skills and knowledge that most here in this community can teach their children!

Apr 9, 2012 - 5:40pm


I've had the college conversation with my grandson, who is a junior in high school. We spent an entire day on the computer looking at jobs, salaries, and the costs associated with the education required to qualify for the job. We found some professions he hadn't even thought about. I think it really opened his eyes to the fact that a college degree and tens of thousands of dollars in debt doesn't actually guarantee an excellent income. This was all spurred by the results of a H.S. vocation test he'd taken at the beginning of the school year, and the fact that his parents have been piss-poor managers of their incomes. They won't be any help in funding his education past high school...maybe $50 a month allowance, if he's lucky. We can help, but not fully finance a four-year college degree. (I've already done that twice for my kids, and once for myself, anyway.) He's freaked out by the idea of being in debt because of what he's had to suffer through thanks to his parents' debts and reckless spending.

He's a logical left-brained thinker, so that approach may not work with some kids, but it might be worth a shot. Smack 'em up the side of their heads with a bit of reality. As for the "last four years of fun"....if the rest of your life hasn't been fun, yer doin' somethin' wrong!

Apr 9, 2012 - 5:36pm

Voter I.D. Laws Are Racist (or something)

The fix is in folks.

US Attorney General Eric Holder's Ballot to Vote Offered to Total Stranger

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Key Economic Events Week of 5/18

5/18 2:00 ET Goon Bostic speech
5/19 8:30 ET Housing starts
5/19 10:00 ET CGP and Mnuchin US Senate
5/20 10:00 ET Goon Bullard speech
5/20 2:00 ET April FOMC minutes
5/21 8:30 ET Philly Fed
5/21 9:45 ET Markit flash PMIs for May
5/21 10:00 ET Goon Williams speech
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5/21 2:30 ET Chief Goon Powell speech

Key Economic Events Week of 5/11

5/11 12:00 ET Goon Bostic speech
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5/12 8:30 ET CPI
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5/12 5:00 ET Goon Mester speech
5/13 8:30 ET PPI
5/13 9:00 ET Chief Goon Powell speech
5/14 8:30 ET Initial jobless claims and import prices
5/14 1:00 ET Another Goon Kashnkari speech
5/14 6:00 ET Goon Kaplan speech
5/15 8:30 ET Retail Sales and Empire State index
5/15 9:15 ET Cap Ute and Ind Prod
5/15 10:00 ET Business Inventories

Key Economic Events Week of 5/4

5/4 10:00 ET Factory Orders
5/5 8:30 ET US Trade Deficit
5/5 9:45 ET Markit Service PMI
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5/6 8:15 ET ADP jobs report
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Key Economic Events Week of 4/27

4/28 8:30 ET Advance trade in goods
4/28 9:00 ET Case-Shiller home prices
4/29 8:30 ET Q1 GDP first guess
4/29 2:00 ET FOMC Fedlines
4/29 2:30 ET CGP presser
4/30 8:30 ET Pers Inc and Cons Spend
4/30 9:45 ET Chicago PMI
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Key Economic Events Week of 4/20

4/20 8:30 ET Chicago Fed
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Key Economic Events Week of 4/6

4/8 2:00 ET March FOMC minutes
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Key Economic Events Week of 3/30

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4/1 8:15 ET ADP Employment
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4/2 10:00 ET Factory Orders
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Key Economic Events Week of 3/23

3/24 9:45 ET Markit flash PMIs
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Key Economic Events Week of 3/9

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3/2 9:45 ET Markit Manu PMI
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3/2 10:00 ET Construction Spending
3/4 8:15 ET ADP employment
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3/4 10:00 ET ISM Services PMI
3/5 8:30 ET Productivity & Unit Labor Costs
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