Finding Common Ground

207
Mon, Dec 5, 2011 - 10:56pm

I set out tonight to write another in the long line of posts regarding the Fed, The EE, S&P, WOPR and MFing Global. I got about 15 minutes into it and I erased the whole, frickin thing.

Tonight, I'm just not in the mood. Yes, it's all bullshit. S&P mentions that they are ready to downgrade virtually every credit on The Continent and the PMs tank. This is, of course, just another bullish development for the PMs but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the euro declined, so the dollar rallied and WOPR sold the PMs. Whatever. BTFD.

There, that was easy. Instead of wasting your time with a lengthy essay full of charts, I was able to spell it all out in just 55 words. Now we can move on.

A few weeks ago, I found a new blog via the "blog roll" on the left-hand side of the ZH homepage. It's written by a guy by the name of Jim Quinn. I have no idea who he is or whether we have anything in common. I do know, however, that I like his site. Visiting there this evening, I read his latest post. It's linked below.

https://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=25234

As you know, I've not been an active supporter of the #occupiers. Frankly, I don't trust them. At this time, I'm not sure I can trust their intentions or their leaders. However, it is quite clear that this first wave of protesters do make some legitimate points and Mr. Quinn has summarized them well. Not knowing Mr. Quinn, it's certainly possible that we have very little in common "politically" but we do agree on one very important point. Namely, that the destruction of the wealth and the freedom of middle-income citizens worldwide is almost complete and, at the end, the world will either turn toward freedom and the rule of law or it will regress deeper into fascism and tyranny.

You've likely noticed that I'm an ardent believer in finding common ground. If we are to emerge from the darkness with freedoms intact, it will only be through cooperation and understanding. Polarity and vilification are the tools of tyrants. We must work together if we are to recover liberty. A good starting point would be a positive and constructive thread of comments to this post. TF

About the Author

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turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()

  207 Comments

FriedEggs
Dec 6, 2011 - 9:44am

Xty

Oh i haven't given up... i know that what im saying sounds bleak - but im still swinging and fighting. I'm still spreading whatever information i can... and still soaking up knowledge too.

.

'They' can never have my will. And that gives me some comfort. They can't take that away from us...

.

Fried(e)

Monedas jacey
Dec 6, 2011 - 9:45am

I looked in my mirror....yeah !

Sorry, I'm not bad lookin' for my age ! I am going to make a compromise with myself to be a better citizen ! If they give me a tax break....I'll decline ! If I see a couple of Columbian banana pickers burglarizing my neighbor....I'll hold the step ladder ! If a pan handler is washing my windshield with his piss in a bottle.....I'll offer to top off the bottle ! I'll Teflon coat my chimney for Santa and reduce carbon emissions farting in my greenhouse, only ! I'll be the darling liberal ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Common Ground Tour ! PS : G'day, Xtasy ! Travel day and check mailing day....if Cindy is still Post Mistress.....she knows too much....Apmex, Kitco, Monex, Blanchard....yeah, let's shut down the USPS !

Fortinbras
Dec 6, 2011 - 9:49am

Off to Austria & Slovakia until Friday...

... will have my big yellow hat with me. Pics to follow.

Next week: UAE, Afghanistan and maybe Pakistan.

¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 9:55am

Take care Fort

Be safe fellow Turdite!

FriedEggs
Dec 6, 2011 - 9:57am

How bright was

it shinning for people during the period of the 'dark ages'. Druids were running the show - and i dont think it was that nice of show - otherwise they would have called it something more appealing.

.

It was so sh*t during that time period - that they labeled it the 'dark ages'. I can only imagine how great it was living in certain places at that time... you cant even get much details of that time period and it wasnt even that long ago in the sense of time... 500-1500y

.

And if nothing new is under the sun... well, than you know how it goes...

cycling around again.

.

Fried(e)


Dec 6, 2011 - 9:58am

Fried - glad to hear it!

Yes, one's fellow man can leave a lot to be desired - but not all of them.

bbacq
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:02am

Astro-phyz, NASA, Complexity, Banks, OWS => common ground

Astro-phyz: welcome and thanks for sharing. Please consider whether you are still unwittingly aiding the system that oppresses you. Until most people realize that just having a job with a tax-funded organization, paying taxes (from taxes paid by others), and contributing to a 401K or RRSP in vehicles they allow you to invest in (those they can manipulate and skim from) is supportive of a repressive regime, we are still in the rose-coloured land of milked 'em, honey. All value derives from freedom, and you draw your salary and matched contributions through coercion. Others go to jail if they do not pay your salary. How do you feel about that, Astro? Is it consistent with your other beliefs? Ayn Rand said we must starve the beast, both intellectually and financially, and I think she saw truth.

Systems and complexity theory, if people would take the time to wrap their heads around it, have the potential to establish the new common ground. Yes, it's all very very Zen-like ("One must abandon control to gain control!") but that is the nature of reality, it seems. I see emerging from the confusion caused by the reality of unintended consequence the intersection of many interests now aligning - I find I agree on many issues with leftists, anti-corporates, anti-globalizationists, environmentalists, fundamentally religious folk, ultra-conservatives, libertarians, and anarchists. Once we abandon stereotypes and focus on facts and truths, the alignment of our interests emerges. That is what we must seek, and I believe it exists, and we are naturally led there through systems and complexity theory applied to social organization, finance, and economics.

Some time back it occurred to me that the last few centuries have been mostly about finding and documenting difference. We have taxonomized Nature, we have branched science into myriad sub-disciplines, most of which are not now science. We are all each now "specialists" in our field, we consult "experts" in fields so narrow gnats bump both borders. We have learned more and more (we think) about less and less so that now we know everything about nothing. Complexity and systems theory have the ability to re-unite our thinking, please everyone get on the bandwagon, because there are large truths lurking in there.

As I have sought the larger answers to why things seem to be so messed up, I came to the conclusion it was the Banks. I started reading about the history of money, and banking. There is now little doubt in my mind that our current system of banking is at the root of most of our troubles. Our current system is specifically designed to minimize diversity and to focus power, which acts reduce complexity, stability, and equality of opportunity for all players.

Some here have mentioned the very notion of lending at interest, ie usury, as being at the root, and I increasingly agree it is the wedge being used to divide the masses for subsequent servitude. If money is made through debt (it is, in our system) and interest is owed on debt (it is), then the system is one built upon an assumption of continuous growth in indebtedness, at a rate that equals or exceeds the interest rate charged. This is unsustainable, but convenient for bankers while it lasts. If anyone out there can prove to me that they got it all wrong in various ancient texts, please, I am eager to learn.

I will leave you all with a quotation from a fellow named Thomas Wilson, who argued against usury back when the bankers were slowly bringing the world around to adopt their system, in 1571. I should point out that I am not religious, and attend no church nor mosque, I simply have found that I share some common ground with those that do:

“The scripture commandeth: thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not lend out thy money for gain, to take anything for the loan of it, and yet we do all these things, as though there were neither scripture that forbade us, nor heaven for us to desire, nor hell to eschew, nor god to honor, nor devil to dread. And this last horrible offense, which I count the greater, or as great, as any of the rest, is so common amongst us that we have no sense to take it for sin, but count it lawful bargaining, and judge them goodly wise men that having great masses of money by them will never adventure any jot thereof in lawful [business], either to carry out our plenty, or to bring in our want, as good merchants use and ought to do, but living idle at home will set out their money for profit, and so enrich themselves with the labor and travail of others, and being themselves none other than drones that suck the honey which other painful bees gather with their continual travail of diverse flowers in every field.”

“And therefore for my part, I will wish some penal law of death to be made against those usurers, as well as against thieves and murderers, for that they deserve death much more than such men do, for these usurers destroy and devour up, not only whole families, but also whole countries, and bring all folk to beggary that have to do with them, and therefore are much worse than thieves or murderers, because their offence hurteth more universally and toucheth a greater number, the one offending for need, and the other upon willfulness. And that which is worst, under the color of friendship, men’s throats are cut, and the doers counted for honest and wise men amongst others that have so ungodly gathered goods together.”

“…The greatest harm in this offense is that men have not the sense or feeling of this heinous fault within their hearts, but think they may lend their money and goods for gain, without committing sin or offending god at all, whereas of other sins they are ashamed, although through frailty they do offend. For no man durst ever stand in defense of theft, adultery, or murder, and yet usury is as great and as horrible before god as any of them all, according to the opinion of all good and learned men in all ages. Yea, so horrible is this sin, that amongst all other sins it makes men to forget god, or rather to think there is no god.”

The banking cabal's camel's nose entered the tent long ago. It is time to shoo the camel out, and I see OWS as being the navy seals on the beach in that process. Whether somewhat misguided or not, the OWS seals appear to be landing on some common ground with me, anyway.

Holy mixed metaphors, that last was over the top.

So, who out there can prove to me that usury is not destined to end in disaster, since it demands new money forever in order to pay interest? I am eager to learn, please teach me.

bbacq

foggyroad
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:11am

Jim Quinn The Burning Platform

Thank You, TF , I hope people read Jim Quinn's Thoughts, time well spent.

"The young people leading the protests across this land are showing tremendous courage and a tenacity of spirit that has been dormant for decades among the lethargic, distracted, over-medicated public. Despite being subjected to government education conditioning, these young people have zeroed in on the enemy. They may not have all the solutions, but they have correctly identified the corrupt banking system as the central nervous system of this vampire squid sucking the life out of our nation. I will support any effort to shine a light on our crooked system. My three young sons deserve a chance at a better life than they will get under the thumb of this oligarchic criminal enterprise. As a child I caught a fleeting glimpse of the American Dream. I turned to look, but it was gone. I choose not to become comfortably numb. I choose to do whatever it will take to renew the opportunity for my sons to achieve the American Dream."

This quote Above is from Jim Quinn -The burning Platform Last week I posted this Quote, from Jim Quinn - The burning Platform " Citizenship requires a person to be actively engaged in the community with obligations to fellow citizens and future generations. Consumerism requires people to love things, embrace debt, worry about what others have, and become driven by the accumulation of possessions and the appearance of wealth." https://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=25234
jacey
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:13am

Thanks...

Thanks Turd, I truly believe that.

And to add...the 'American Dream' as we've known it is changing. The future of our children is different from what we have experienced the past 50-100 years. Plan accordingly. Then...teach them.

ps...sorry for the typos in the previous post...by the time I noticed, I couldn't edit. It will just bug me until the next thread lol

¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:22am

Astro-phyz / bbacq

Just catching on some posts from last night. Two outstanding one's from both of yourselves.

Welcome aboard Astro-phyz!

jmsvett
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:24am

Question

Would it be illegal for Goldcorp., Barrick and Newmont to get together with the mid-tier producers and price fix the price of gold and or silver? Much like OPEC?

Orange
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:25am

View on Open Interest

Interesting article on silver open interest as well as several other subjects. Silver is about half way down.

https://blog.milesfranklin.com/the-sound-of-smart

But this trend of plunging open interest started nearly two years ago, accelerating this Fall as an ‘unintended consequence’ of the Cartel’s desperate, last-ditch attempt to hold PM prices down via “OPERATION PM ANNIHILATION,” as can be seen clearly by the charts below, particularly in the far more manipulated PAPER silver market.

First, we see that open interest has fallen to levels last seen during the height of the Cartel’s violent PAPER attack during GLOBAL MELTDOWN I in late 2008, and before that mid-2006. In other words, today’s COMEX open interest, with silver prices hovering around $33/ounce, is the SAME as when silver prices were $13/oz in 2006 and $8/oz in 2008!

Dec 6, 2011 - 10:27am

Fried - I think you kind of made my point for me

It was darker in the dark ages - but look what emerged - so if mankind ratchets himself out of the darkness, two steps forward, one back, we still get closer to understanding our universe and place in it. A return to the dark ages could happen - but it seems highly unlikely that we will lose all gained knowledge - didn't happen then - came close but didn't. The concept of individual liberty has been slowly growing - and democracy has been an attempt at putting that notion into practice. Needs some fine tuning obviously.

Worst system of government, next to all the others.

bbacq jacey
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:29am

Teaching and learning...

From that glimpse of the American Dream...

Video unavailable

It just seemed appropriate... so too did picking the live sing-along version from Austin...

bbacq

single6
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:33am

Fine Turd but this is not addressing the problem

If we are to find common ground, it will be at a personal level. To be able to provide for ourselves & our families. Common ground with our community and our neighbors for security, service, and barter. Common ground with our church if we are spiritually inclined. Get involved with those who truly get it. Help those who need help when you can. Give of yourself without expecting to get something in return. Give thought to differences without judging those differences. The only person you can change is the one staring at you in the mirror. But, I'm too old to change...and I say bullshit. Change is the nature of the planet. But these people don't get it....and I say so what. They will be forced to get it eventually. Or they won't. But the government is screwing us...and I say, yes and your point is? It won't be fixed without a complete re-do or civil war or government takeover. Think about those options...stop reading...close your eyes and seriously think of possible outcomes. The end of the world as we know it = not necessarily a bad thing...it just depends on how we find common ground to adapt to the coming changes. National/social changes ARE coming. No matter where you are in your life politically, financially, mentally, physically...all of us will experience (in varying degrees) the coming turmoil. Most here know this...common ground. Changing the world starts with you. Is there anything you can do right now - today - to make life a little easier from someone else? If there is...do it. Jacey has it right. This post is NOT about politicians finding common ground in Washington, London or Berlin. The vast majority of them are hopeless, sociopathic assholes. If we are to survive with any liberty at all, we MUST find common ground amongst each other. Otherwise, the criminal politicians will continue pit us against each other to the benefit of their own career advancement. In the end, "divide and conquer" will lead to tyranny and oppression. It always does. Fine great we agree. But my earlier point in on this thread still applies. We can all agree we will do things to protect our families, friends....yes.....but will the Fed Govt allow you to that iin the future? Yes we can all run around like the smart mammals that we are a gather and prepare.......but at some point.......we have to face the T.Rex/ sky net whatever. IMHO calling for a Article 5 Convention is the only peaceful way that is in the Constitution(and like the civil war, the act of controlling or leaving the Fed govt could bring war with them.....I'm ok with that......yes boys and girls I really am) Most will agree we can live with our states.......what Im questioning is can we with this current Fed Govt? Is there common ground with them? Do they care what you think? Who will tell them no?? Will they listen? At some point we have to start deleveraging ourself off of the Fed Govt to save the states. At some point we have to grab the boot that is kicking us and saying enough. I just have little faith that will happen without a fight.......

¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:36am

Commanalities and the common man

This doesn't seem too out of place today on here.......

Rush-Closer To The Heart (Lyrics)
Rush-Freewill (Lyrics)
bbacq Paladex
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:42am

@Paladex

"I think, deep down, we all know that no amount of peaceful marching will change anything, and we are waiting for someone to try something different."

Um, it seemed to work for the Indians who were once under British foreign rule. That is, until someone tried something different, ie peaceful marching.

The thing about complexity and chaos is that the system changes state (pardon the pun) very quickly, and you don't see it coming. Slow, gentle, continuous pressure is all that is required. We cannot fool Mother Nature forever, and Bankers have been trying to dupe and deceive her, through us, for hundreds of years. In the long run, they cannot succeed, and we have every reason to be hopeful.

Peaceful marching (along with starving the beast both financially and intellectually - do not lend your mind to the forces of evil, please, folks!) is exactly what is needed.

Along with teaching our children, and the OWS folk, well.

bbacq

Santa's Elf
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:43am

@ cpn (frustrating Au, Ag)

You asked for another reason to explain the drop in Au, Ag beyond manipulation. If you ask Stephen Leeb, he offers a simple, yet very plausible explanation: the need for liquidity

https://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/12/5_S...

Orange
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:45am

Indian Turdites

Looks like the s..t has hit the fan in India.

16% decline in currency over 4 months.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/analysis-india-inches-closer-crisis-10522...

Beyond India's borders, Europe is the biggest worry. As its banks deleverage, investment money has flooded out of India's markets. If Europe's debt troubles deteriorate, India could be hit with a balance of payments crisis as severe as the one that forced a sharp devaluation in 1991.

The rupee, which has dropped 16 percent in the past four months, got a reprieve last week after the world's big six central banks banded together to try to ease dollar funding strains, helping it to snap a four-week losing trend.

kliguy38
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:48am

Correct Fried

just look at the divisions existing in this microcosm...... Imagine Jamie Dimon contributing 4.2 million to the NYPD the week OWS began and the majority of people on this blog rip OWS ..... THEY'RE AFTER THE BANKERS..........Dimon told you everything....... ITs called Occupy WALL STREET!! Label them commies label them socialist label them dems libs whatever......... I label them SCREWED......just like 99% of you on this thread.... Fried is right

single6
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:51am

Beer

I know I can find common ground with Turd at a pub

SS121
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:51am

Jeremiah starting for the Silver and Gold crowd

Click on Audio Archive at https://www.shepherdschapel.com Monday Dec 5th is the first day of the Bible Book of Jeremiah. With Jeremiah containing so much info about the days just ahead, most here who appreciate the Real Thing (Silver/Gold) over what the "system" has to offer(Fiat Debt notes) will really enjoy working through Jeremiah. As posted before, this whole thing (world political / financial fiasco) will soon be turning to a religious theme.

Keg
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:52am

Don't ever give up

While I prepare for the doom that seems to await us by stocking up, working with like minded friends, and trying to warn others I still believe we have a chance to pull this thing out. It will not be easy. We will go through severe pain. Major surgery is painful and there is a recovery period. But if we can get back to running this country by the constitution it can be saved.

Gold Dog's post "On cutting spending" gives a positive example of what can be done. I applaud that effort and pray it can be duplicated. That is finding common ground and doing something very positive with it.

This week is Jimmy V week at ESPN. His inspiring speech was about fighting cancer but I think it can and also be applied to the cancer that is killing our economy. Don't give up. Don't ever give up.

Jim's 1993 ESPY Speech
bbacq ¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 10:52am

@DPH: Rush...

Who would have thunk that the teenage band we booed off my high-school stage (because Geddy's screaming voice was reverberating so hard off the gym floor it was breaking eardrums) would have become one of the world's greatest supergroups?

Now they seem like a bunch of very down to earth guys, as well as great musicians. Is there a drummer better than Neil?

Appearances, first impressions, and book covers can be deceiving...

bbacq

I_ate_the_crow
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:00am

MF Global rabbit hole

A former MF Global employee accused former president William J. Clinton of collecting $50,000 per month through his Teneo advisory firm in the months before the brokerage careened towards its Halloween filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

The source, who is no longer associated with MF Global, said Teneo is a dual-track company with one side devoted to merchant and investment banking and the other side set up to provide image and strategy consulting services. Clinton is the chairman of the company’s advisory board. His duties and compensation have not been released. The other member of the board is former British prime minister Tony Blair.

Teneo landed its first major client June 1, when the Rockefeller Foundation gave Teneo a $3,447,150, six-month contract to help plan the foundation’s 2013 centennial.

https://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47938

¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:02am

bbacq

Cool story! I played the grooves right off my Farewell to Kings album back in H.S.

It used to be one of my favorite "headphones and go to sleep" album many times back in H.S

And now here I am approx 30 years later, putting it out here for a entirely different reason.

"Farewell to Kings" seems pretty appropriate and what we want. Change!

¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:05am

Geithner

About to make a statement on EU etc. very soon on FOXB and elsewhere probably.

I don't expect much of anything to be said.

GourmetDan Colonel Angus
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:06am

Standing Against Bullshit

Well, that's a full-time job partner.

Too bad it don't pay worth a crap...

¤
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:12am

Crow / Free Silver

Love the new avatar. Liked the old one also.

BTW...who is this Silver person and what did they do?

"Republican campaign poster from 1896 attacking free silver"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_silver

Stratajema
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:14am

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