Raw Meat

Thu, Oct 20, 2011 - 6:46pm

While I was working out this afternoon, I saw Peter Schiff on CNBC discussing the OWS. Since I couldn't hear the audio, I'm not sure exactly what he said. When CNBC posts it later, I'll be sure to add it.

When I got home, I thought I'd check Peter's Youtube channel for some clues as to how he feels about the protest movement. Why do I care, you ask? Because I have a high level of respect for Peter. He is a very smart guy, an accomplished "Austrian" and definitely not a "mainstream media shill". On these three points, I think we can all agree.

Therefore, I thought it would be fun to post the following video from Peter's channel. Recorded last Saturday, Peter discusses Herman Cain and OWS, two very hot topics around here. It's about 14 minutes long.

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan, Occupy Wall Street

Now, I've asked everyone to please refrain from politics and OWS on this main blog page and I very much appreciate the efforts that have been made to comply. On this thread, however, I am going to ask the mods to suspend the current "rules". Based upon Peter's informed opinion, we have an opportunity here for a main-page discussion of these two, very important issues. Have at it but please remember to be civil. Educated and reasonable people can disagree without being disagreeable. We'll return the main discussion back to precious metals etc tomorrow morning. TF

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Vernon Wormer
Oct 20, 2011 - 6:50pm

First? Turd great work. Thank


Turd great work. Thank you. Keep it up.

Oct 20, 2011 - 6:53pm

Bees Nest

Two words about OWS- Hegelian Dialectic.


Oct 20, 2011 - 6:57pm

What if?

What if it goes to 10-10-10? 11% tax increase across the board. The last thing our economy needs to grow jobs is an income tax AND a national sales tax. A flat tax or a VAT tax. One or the other.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:02pm

it starts a discussion

I agree that Cain's 9-9-9 plan leaves a lot to be desired, however it is mainstreaming discussions of alternatives to the current tax code, everyday citizens and those who are not news junkies are discussing "what if" scenarios to the IRS, and I am all for that.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:02pm

I hope someone posts the

I hope someone posts the chart from last nights thread that talked about the impact of Cain's 999 plan.

I will add a caveat. With no tax code, the only thing that really scares me as to how fast the government will raise the 999 to 202020 or whatever. I mean all they have to do is raise it. I heard no one talking about capping the 999 via legislation or something.

I am just saying we are living in strange times. I would think to foster growth the best way to handle this is to make the personal income tax void for like three years before anything else new gets implemented.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:04pm


...is this some type of thought experiment or social observation your hoping for? lol

This should be interesting to observe. My contributions will be visual.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:06pm
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:08pm

It's symbolic worldwideof the Golden Calf

wall street outraged

Pitch wall street outraged

Julio Carrión Cueva

The protest against the corporatization of Wall Street continues to grow

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:10pm

Thanks for the Update, Turd

I'm a big Schiff fan too, and I'm not on the 9-9-9 bandwagon either! We just need a Fair Tax, or a Flat Tax, or something like that. Here's a snippet of something I wrote earlier.

I don't think people realize how much that 9-9-9 plan adds up to.

I ran a small company doing framing carpentry. Workers comp is mandatory, and it's 22% from every dollar I earn. So Cain is gonna throw an extra 9% on top of that, 14% for Social Security and Medicare, and another 9% from every paycheck I write.

Now we go to spend our hardearned money that's already been robbed from over half of it's value, and then Cain wants another 9% for the national sales tax ON TOP OF our 10% local sales tax.

So I get to keep a whopping twenty-some cents for every dollar I made, and people wonder why small businesses are having a hard time!?!

BTW, our primary competition Was the illegal Mexicans. How much do you think they get to keep out of every dollar they earn?

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:11pm

It's no picnic being the 99%

Occupied America

Pitch Occupied America

Steve Greenberg

The "Occupy Wall Street" movement's focus is the increasing concentration of wealth in the United States; for the past decade or two the phrase "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" has never been more true, or extreme.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:12pm
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:14pm

Two sides of the same card/same deck

Year of Protest

Pitch Year of Protest

Tjeerd Royaards

From the Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street, 2011 has been a year of protest

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:15pm

And lastly...Happy Halloween

New monsters...

Pitch New monsters...

Corn Dog
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:20pm

999 Plan = 0% Taxes For The Rich?


Good quick video explains his 999 perfectly, the poor and middle class are doomed again under this guy.

Bay of Pigs
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:28pm


totally demolishes Cain's main platform. I would add that Cain is an ex FED gov, Bankster shill. In other words, completely biased and utterly useless to provide any workable solution to these problems.

The OWS would do well to listen to Schiff as well. We need literally millions of people to march on Wash DC. 

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:33pm

Peter Schiff is the man

I have to say that I am geeked out on Peter Schiff. I check youtube everyday to see any new post. I especially love it when he appears on Fox channel every once in a while and it's him v's everyone else and yet he has so much conviction that he continues to appear and preach the truth no matter what others think........it's easy when you know your right and everyone else is wrong.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:33pm

The 999 Plan is From Sim City

A lot of people still don't realize that Cain ripped off the 999 plan from a video game. Seriously... is this what we've devolved to? 

"Long before Cain was running for president and getting attention for his 999 plan, the residents of SimCity 4 -- which was released in 2003 -- were living under a system where the default tax rate was 9 percent for commercial taxes, 9 percent for industrial taxes and 9 percent for residential taxes..."


Oct 20, 2011 - 7:33pm

Herman Cain

In general, I don't think he is a bad candidate. However, he most likely will be influenced by the banks (ex fed gov?) and the biggest problem I have is that he said he would consult "the generals" before coming up with a comprehensive plan on Afghanistan. I want the president to be a check on the generals (unfortunately one of the few fringe benefits of electing obama <that of leaving the wars> was not to be - he is drawing down though....probably to attack more middle eastern countries). Herman Cain sounded like he would be a puppet of the generals. This topic was discussed months ago and hasn't been discussed since.

Romney is very similar to Obama. IMHO, electing Ron Paul is the only outlet for change....probably won't happen, but I hope he runs in 2016.

The rest of it noise...all noise, lets hope that there are enough of us that will vote for civil liberties before they are all taken. Collapse, localize, rebuild, party.

Bum in the library...
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:40pm

999 = lies lies lies

i could not open the link for some reason but if one of the 9's in the 999 plan i a 9% personal income tax than I'm not sure how the current tax code could be thrown out. it just seems like he is adding more on top of it...

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:41pm

i'm sorry, but as peter

i'm sorry, but as peter schiff knows, wealthy individuals benefit ecoomy's yes, but the incredibly rich offshore their money.

that is why people are pissed, they steal the peoples money and syphon it out of the country.

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:44pm

Looks like you need to start copyrighting your work Turd!

Just posted on "The great silver bull market of 2012" because this article is what it pertains to. But seeing how this is the main blog...

I got to work today and logged on to goldsilver.com to see what links they had posted pertaining to PM's and the economy. I saw one about "Last Chance to Own Silver at These Prices" It piqued my interest so I clicked on it and began to read away. About a quarter of the way through I started thinking "Hmmm, I think I've already read this article" It's not copy and pasted word for word but looks like you might want to start copyrighting your work Turd!


So finally position limits in silver will be enforced. Will there be delays? Of course and you can bet your bottom dollar that the Cartel will be out in force with their lawyers challenging the ruling. However, there is a very high probability that on a beautiful day in 2012, JPM, et al will finally be feed of its shackles and the price of silver will move dramatically higher.

Don’t think this will happen smoothly. Beginning today, all bets are off. As of last Tuesday’s Commitment of Traders survey, the commercial short position in silver was 58,000 contracts. At 58,000 contracts the speculation is that the short position is still between 15,000 and 20,000 contracts. Clearly, they have a lot of work to do to bring themselves into compliance.

Remember the CME only raises margins in response to volatility. If the Cartel can create enough volatility the CME will be forced to act.

So the answer is simple:

  1. Violently manipulate silver to create unprecedented volatility.

  2. Have the CME raise margin rates again in response to this volatility.

  3. Use dips I price to quickly cover short positions.

  4. If Cartel buying spikes price back up, this added volatility will force additional margin hikes.


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Throwing Sliver Hammers
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:46pm
Economical Disaster
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:46pm

TSA Thugs Roaming the STREETS NOW

PORTLAND, Tenn. – You're probably used to seeing TSA's signature blue uniforms at the airport, but now agents are hitting the interstates to fight terrorism with Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR).

"Where is a terrorist more apt to be found? Not these days on an airplane more likely on the interstate," said Tennessee Department of Safety & Homeland Security Commissioner Bill Gibbons.

Tuesday Tennessee was first to deploy VIPR simultaneously at five weigh stations and two bus stations across the state.

Agents are recruiting truck drivers, like Rudy Gonzales, into the First Observer Highway Security Program to say something if they see something.

"Not only truck drivers, but cars, everybody should be aware of what's going on, on the road," said Gonzales.


Oct 20, 2011 - 7:48pm

EU Said to Mull Wielding $1.3T to Break Impasse

EU Said to Mull Wielding $1.3T to Break Impasse Thu Oct 20 22:00:01 GMT 2011 By James G. Neuger and Tony Czuczka - Oct 20, 2011 6:00 PM ET

European governments may unleash as much as 940 billion euros ($1.3 trillion) to fight the debt crisis, seeking to break a deadlock between Germany and France that is forcing leaders to hold two summits within four days.

Negotiations on combining the European Union’s temporary and planned permanent rescue funds as of mid-2012, while scrapping a ceiling on bailout spending, accelerated this week after efforts to leverage the temporary fund ran into European Central Bank opposition and provoked the French-German clash, two people familiar with the discussions said. They declined to be identified because political leaders will have to decide.

That option may be one way out of the impasse between Europe’s two biggest economies Finance ministers meet in Brussels today from about 2 p.m. to lay the groundwork for an Oct. 23 meeting of government leaders that had been the deadline for a solution to the debt crisis. A summit for Oct. 26 was set yesterday after Germany and France said the EU needs more time to seal a “global and ambitious” accord.

“The market wants the euro crisis solved yesterday, and the politicians and finance ministries seem to be saying ‘yes we can, but no we won’t,...


Frankenstein Government
Oct 20, 2011 - 7:53pm

Plugged Your Site Tonight

Turd I just wanted to say thank you for all that you do. You have allowed me to buy physical metals at the very best prices over the last year. I also want to thank your readers for the information they have passed along and their willingness to beat the shit out of trolls and keep them off the site. I don't mind differing opinions- most of us know where that line is.

Thanks again. https://thecivillibertarian.blogspot.com/2011/10/gold-and-silver-update....

Oct 20, 2011 - 7:59pm

The main difference between Tea Party and OWS

Tea party people didn't vote for this big govenrment nonsense. They are forced to live in this system and suffering from it.

OWS people OTOH thought big government "spreading the wealth" is the solution to "inequility" so they vote for it. What they got is a government forcing banks to "spread" overpriced home loans to them that lock them in a debt trap (Can you say karma?).

Oct 20, 2011 - 8:11pm

The Powers That Be

First Turd the site is being picked up as Malware on google chrome so I am posting this on Firefox.

I shared this Shiff report when it first came out and has some really good points on Capitalism. The issue with a lot of protesters is they dont understand the real issues but that it is also a sign of times because of corporate media and education system. They just know that something is wrong and its really up to us to give their energy a target.

The only thing I disagree with Shiffis is the location of the protest. IMO the location is right, as the majority of politicians to get elected need money to get elected. So the ones with the most money usually win their elections, so what has happened is majority of people that have been elected are beholden to their sponsors policies. So WallStreet has becomes the symbol of what is wrong with Government, Corporate Media, Justice system etc. I don't blame the politicians for helping the people that got them into power. In my experience its natural to support the factors that are keeping you in employment and even more so if your employment options are limited.

Last year after reading an article by "CognitiveDissonance" on Zerohedge, I started blogging again to try and bring more light in the direction we are all heading. So more then one year ago I wrote a blog post on who were the major facilitators of the powers that be in the USA. This has now been confirmed in the following article. To bring up the concept of TPTB, would be thought of tin foil category last year but now more people, seem to accept that maybe there is a group of people that have to much power. The more that people become aware of what is actually happening the better chance we have of fixing our future. I for one don't want to go back to Fiji and bring up my kids in a subsistance lifestyle, in which I am betting is going to happen sooner then later.

Thanks Turd for puting this topic in the main thread.

I created the following Youtube in realation to #occupywallstreet

Occupy Wall Street Cartoons, comic strip and some signs
Oct 20, 2011 - 8:11pm

Death of the Middle Class

Folks...correct me if I am wrong...being a NON American I don't know all the details for your tax system...Lord knows our is enough up her in Canuckland.

Consumption taxes are everywhere in Canada and they are especially favoured by politicians becuase they argue that the folks with the most money pay the most taxes. That is true ...BUT they forget to mention that the folks with the least money pay the largest % of their purchasing power on necessities (a dollar tax is a dollar of tax but a dollar is worth a lot more to someone with few of them...than someone with a lot)..think shopping for groceries or paying bills when you are trying to make ends meet VS deciding what model of new car you are going to pop for.

Anyway... Suppose you are an average income family...say 50K per year.

The 9% consumption is new and you pay would pay it on everything you buy so you lose that (new)

Then they pay 9% income tax

This should effectively double their tax bill and completely crush them...I think the numbers go from tax of around 5100.00 to 13,500.

In addition it will also likely mean that the current deduction for interest on your mortgage goes away...details are not clear but take that as a given.

Finally, I think I read that the 9% would apply to the purchase price of a house.

95 out of 100 families live paycheck to paycheck

Can you say NO MIDDLE CLASS!

The lower classes...well yikes.

Those with higher incomes pay less real dollars and therefore should have more money to spend on stuff. Business's will see labour demand higher wages immediately to avoid starvation and bankruptcy so wage inflation is in the cards for that one...not to mention that folks trying to buy their first home would now have to come up with another 9% down AND 9% more on the mortgage since it is no longer tax deductable.

Finally...9 goes to 10 to 11 since politicians CAN"T SPEND LESS and get re-elected...the root of the whole damn problem.

This is a great talking point because it is easy to understand..but seriously...wow.

Folks...Only in Canada would something like this be considered!!! With the longest undefended border in the world...maybe we are rubbing off on ya.

As for the OWS ... and the O"anywhere "...they don't have a focus or a unified message other than we are pissed of at the status quo...however if they should get focused.... potentially very powerful.

Metal Minded
Oct 20, 2011 - 8:14pm

Cain's 999 Tax Plan

Could Cain's 999 tax plan be another empty campaign promise from a main stream politician, like Obama's promise to end the wars?

National Health has been proposed by at least three Democrats in my lifetime: Ted Kennedy(in the 70's?), Clinton, and Obama. It gets thrown around between the President and Congress and the Supreme Court. No real chance of it ever becoming a reality, whether you like it or not. Just great PR for this great democracy we live in. Pick many of the other great issues of the last 40 years and see if they didn't get the same treatment.

Do you see much real chance of 999 replacing the many volumes of the US Tax Code? 999 is a simple remedy to draw in the simple minded. Hopium for the masses.

Oct 20, 2011 - 8:14pm

If you look at this G&S

If you look at this G&S graph, the metals appear to be tightly capped for the last 2 days on the Globex market. Does anybody else find this odd?


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