Of Revolution and Revolutionaries

Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 11:29am

Thanks, everyone, for the "day off" yesterday. I needed to step away and clear my head. A little fresh air always helps the cause. It's Friday. I'm back. And there are a few things we need to discuss.

First of all, the markets in general. I can't find a single one I like. The "dots" of impending collapse are everywhere. The challenge is to try to connect them...or at least connect them in a reasonably accurate manner that allows you to move with confidence. In the end, though the global central banks seem to have unlimited fiat with which to prop them up, worldwide equity markets look as if they are perilously close to outright collapse. And don't ever forget the ultimate, short-term benefit that would befall the U.S. should this occur, first eloquently brought to our attention by the great Tyler Durden nearly two years ago:


As this pertains to the PMs, traders should exercise supreme caution here. As you can see on the charts below, a breakdown today could foreshadow even more weakness next week. As I mentioned Wednesday evening, given the unprecedented level of C/C/C manipulation we've seen, I doubt they're done. Lots of moving averages out there that might provide support levels but I'm sticking with my ruler and sharpie and they continue to show possible bottoms near $24 and $1480. Again, if you must trade, please be cautious.

Lastly, I've noticed that, nearly every day, discussion increases here regarding the ongoing protests in New York. Many here are very passionate about the dangerous and tenuous position in which the current system of crony capitalism and banker oligarchy has left us. Fine. Me, too. However, I do not feel that Marxism and Marxism-lite (socialism) is the answer.

Perhaps one or two of our NY-based turdites could venture down toward lower Manhattan tomorrow to ask a few questions of these peace-loving youths so many seem to idolize. Let's start with:

1) What is the Federal Reserve, what is it's function, when was it created and what policy are they currently following that is so ruinous to the life savings and purchasing power of the average citizen?

2) What is a Credit Default Swap and what role did it play in the 2008 financial crisis?

3) In hindsight the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 was not a very good idea. What was the Glass-Steagall Act and why was it important?

4) Going forward, which type of leader do you prefer? George Washington or Vladimir Lenin? Martin Luther King or Che Guevara?

I'm not going to wait for the answers. Why should I when I already have evidence like this:

Cornel West's Closing Remarks at Speach at Liberty Plaza in NYC

Is this an intelligent, thoughtful group which seeks reform within the current capitalist system that has defined America for 235 years OR is this simply a group of mind-numbed, "useful idiots" blindly repeating the mantras of a marxist revolutionary? You decide.

Clearly, in managing the situation, some police officers have over-reacted. This is always disheartening. Given the mayhem that has accompanied similar anti-capitalism "protests" in cities such as Seattle and Toronto, it would seem that the NYPD is not looking to be overly-friendly. This does not mean, however, that our mantra is "F the Police". If you think that the police are the enemy, then I must ask you two questions:

1) The next time you are in trouble....from a home invasion, a simple assault or a car accident...who will you call? Maybe you can take of yourself just fine but who will your spouse call if you're not around? How about your daughter? How about your mother? Who will they call?

2) And how did you feel about the police on 9/12/01? Were you proud of them or did you go around yelling "F the police"? Then ask yourself: What has changed? Have the police changed or have I changed? Your honest answer to that question needs to be considered.

Ok, time to conclude this post. Please understand, I know that the current system is unsustainable and must be changed. I am not, however, throwing in my lot with this first batch of "protesters". Marxist revolutions only lead to tyranny and mass graves and I won't be a party to it. Instead, we need a revolution of personal freedom and responsibility. We must reclaim representative democracy and free enterprise. When that movement finally takes to the streets, count me in. To that movement only, I will happily pledge my life, my fortune and my sacred honor. TF

p.s. Given the "controversial" nature of this post, the comments sections will be closely monitored. All views and opinions are welcome but anyone not observing TurdWorld Rule #1 (treat others the way you want to be treated) will likely see their comments deleted. We need more peace and less hate in this world and I will not allow this site to promote anger and hostility. We are all on the same team here and we need to work together if we are going to survive the turbulence ahead.

About the Author

turd [at] tfmetalsreport [dot] com ()


Oct 4, 2011 - 3:08pm

Stephen Lerner video discussing strategy

Stephen Lerner - We Need to Create a Crisis for the "Super Rich" by "Escalating Activity" and "Direct Action":

“Lerner and his staff learned how to coordinate their outcries, involve church and civic leaders in their protests, and denounce the owner as a wealthy absentee landlord profiting from the manual labor of the poor. Cleaning crews were trained in protest tactics to disrupt pedestrian and vehicular traffic, interfere with the building’s tenants and foment other nuisance-generating actions.

The Justice for Janitors campaign helped SEIU leaders show how to coordinate the union’s tactics so that they had a social and political dimension far greater than a mere dispute over custodians’ wages. What came to be called a “corporate campaign” gave the union leverage over the major owners of capital. Rather than rely on any single labor action, a corporate campaign could produce multiple benefits. The trick was to learn how to shake up the downtowns of major American cities, frighten commuters, worry the mayor, and produce editorials in the newspapers urging the property owner to demonstrate “social responsibility.”

This sounds eerily similar to the strategy at the Occupy Wall Street. Just another coincidence I’m sure.

Oct 4, 2011 - 2:55pm

Soros speaks - Soros funded MoveOn.org moves in

“And it's obvious that Soros is not supporting it either.” – D-FIBRALATOR

George Soros backs Anti-Wall Street Protests:

D-FIB, you must not know Soros very well.

Soros funded MoveOn.org moves in on Occupy Wall Street:

What an amazing coincidence. Who could have ever predicted that?

SEIU and Communists Unite:

SEIU and Communists marching together. What another amazing coincidence.

Oct 4, 2011 - 2:14pm

Extraordinarily weak

The case that you make is extraordinarily weak. The basic argument is that because Stephen Lerner argued for targeting Wall Street with protest, he must have organized the Occupy Wallstreet protest. There is a gigantic chasm over which you must leap in order to come to that conclusion. Neither the Blaze article or anything else you've provided shows anything more than Lerner is/was a critic of Wall Street. Nothing is offered to show a connection between him and Occupy Wallstreet. Furthermore, the protest that he argued for was fundamentally different than those that are taking place. Lerner argued for mass strategic defaults on home loans. Occupy Wallstreet isn't doing that.

Moreover, if anyone is spouting propaganda here it is obviously you. You cite The Blaze, which is Glenn Beck's website. A known purveyor of right wing paranoia in the image of McCarthy and the John Birch Society. Meanwhile, The Blaze cites Canadian Free Press, which is another propaganda outfit that cites utter bullshit in making reports. For instance, they published articles claiming that Qaeda operatives stole nuclear material from McMasters University. The person who they cited for that information has been sued for libel and defamation by McMasters, and his publishers admitted the allegations were baseless and apologized. Then they decided that a graduate of McMasters looked a lot like a Qaeda suspect (because, you know, they all look the same) and started printing stories claiming that they were the same people. When that turned out to be to false, they wrote a half-assed, back-peddling story, which refused to simply admit that they were totally wrong and incredibly reckless and wanton in their treatment of another person's name and reputation.





Dude, you live in a fantasy world, where a communist conspiracy is under every rock just waiting to steal your "precious bodily fluids." Get a grip on yourself and reality. Come down to earth and learn that you have to support allegations with facts that are logically connected together. You and your sources simply collect random details of a broad category of "political enemies," and then try to connect them together by what might be happening. In other words, you are totally full of it.

precious bodily fluids
Oct 4, 2011 - 7:30am

On this planet...the one that upholds our Republic

D-FIBRALATOR, I posted this article earlier in this thread from The Blaze, on who organized the occupy Wall Street event:


Stephen Lerner and financial terrorism (from March 2011):

“Lerner said that unions and community organizations are, for all intents and purposes, dead. The only way to achieve their goals, therefore–the redistribution of wealth and the return of “$17 trillion” stolen from the middle class by Wall Street–is to “destabilize the country.”

Lerner’s plan is to organize a mass, coordinated “strike” on mortgage, student loan, and local government debt payments–thus bringing the banks to the edge of insolvency and forcing them to renegotiate the terms of the loans. This destabilization and turmoil, Lerner hopes, will also crash the stock market, isolating the banking class and allowing for a transfer of power.”

The Lefts Economic Terrorism Plans for America (with Stephen Lerner quotes)

“The Blaze has obtained a taped recording of the radical plans of Stephen Lerner, a former official of SEIU, on of the most powerful unions in the country. In a meeting held on March 19, 2011, Lerner is heard talking to a group of community organizers, socialists, and union members in a discussion about tactics and strategies on how to disrupt and destabilize the American economy and create widespread uncertainty and fear.”

Former SEIU leader caught on tape laying out the unions’ plan for economic chaos

“A former official of one of the country’s most-powerful unions, SEIU, is detailing a secret plan to “destabilize” the country. Specifically, the plan seeks to destroy JP Morgan, nuke the stock market, and weaken Wall Street’s grip on power, thus creating the conditions necessary for a redistribution of wealth and a change in government. The former SEIU official, Stephen Lerner, spoke in a closed session at a Pace University forum last weekend.”

Obama and SEIU:

It makes sense Lerner would have to leave SEIU to do this most important community organizing work. Do you think he doesn’t still support SEIU?

Glenn Beck broke this story and showed the video of Lerner on his show. It was also on The Blaze before Lerner had it removed for copyright issues. You’re a smart guy, you know Beck doesn’t work for Alex Jones. I included a link to Alex Jones because he confirmed what The Blaze reported, that this is organized and bankrolled by the radical leftists, SEIU and Soros.

You say I am lying about this? Aren't these guys the same cast of characters from the 2009 election campaign? I provided these links so people can judge for themselves.

With all the info available today, this is clearly a manufactured faux-test of a collection of worn out goals from the Communist 101 playbook - claims of oppression, injustices, and class warfare. Did you read the official document of the protest? Can you not identify the Marxist catch phrases and ideology in this document? If not, you are not being intellectually honest. The communist Van Jones is a supporter, and he has a new union street movement this month. Frances Fox Piven, of Cloward-Piven Strategy fame, and teacher of Marxist street movements, has a video from the Occupy protest in NY calling for the same old “tax the rich and redistribute the wealth” movement. This year, in one of her lectures, she even condoned violence to achieve the movement’s goals. I assume you know of her and her strategies.

As far as red baiting? Progressivism = Democratic Socialism = Communism. Its all collectivism. They keep changing the name to fool the public. Do your own research on Fabian Socialist links to Progressivism in the early 20th century, and also Communist links to Progressivism going back 60 years. Did the Progressive movement purge them? No. The Progressive movement used them to eat the Democratic Party whole. The Socialists and Communists are still there in our government, in the hundreds of Soros Progressive organizations, the union leaders (Andy Stern, Wade Rathke, Richard Trumka), and on the streets organizing this event. I also put up a link in this thread on the Goals of Communism from the Congressional Record in 1963. Read it and you will find the vast majority of their goals align exactly with the collectivist Progressive platform.

That’s what this “Occupy” movement is about, the “fundamental transformation” that was promised to them in the last election. These street protests are the launch of the 2012 campaign for the Obummer organizers. This is the bottom up street action that will let Obummer push the top down solution:

I would support a protest against the real enemy, the Federal Reserve. That would be the real protest, not a nameless, faceless “Wall Street greed”. But I would not march with socialists/communists/union organizers who openly call for ending capitalism and installing something more to their collectivist liking. The vast majority of Americans would agree on that.

It amuses me how the leftists hide from those descriptives, yet they march for its policy demands. What are they ashamed of? If they believe it, they should own it, so the American public knows who they are and what they believe in. I haven’t heard any of the protesters calling to defend our Republic, restore the constitution and rule of law, end Big Government corruption, and get back to free markets. Let me know when you find those videos.

End the Fed. That’s the real protest.

And yes, the photo is Joe McCarthy. His accusations were proven correct. People like you vilified the man, but he was proven correct with the release of old Soviet files and the Velona Intercepts: https://www.wnd.com/?pageId=4020

“Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts -- FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 -- the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network.”

By the way. your progressive liberal-biased media doesn’t report on news that damages your cause, so I have to use alternative media to get investigative news reports. I find it much more accurate than anything that bail-out receiving MSNBC puts out, or whitehouse mouthpiece CNN, or any of your liberal papers parroting the party line and that are losing readership.

Alex Jones has been fighting the Fed, the banking cabal, and globalists for over 15 years. He is more credible than any of your propaganda presented here.

Oct 4, 2011 - 1:09am

On what planet...

@everyone except rowdyboy

The bottom line is whose side are you on: the bankers or the people? Red-baiting and illogical conspiracy theorizing for why a good thing must be an evil plot to trick everyone is just another method of attacking the people and supporting the bankers.

I give an in-depth response to rowdyboy below, but his nonsense is seriously undeserving of response. If you can see through it, I would suggest spending your time reading something else.

However, if you think rowdyboy is persuasive, then read on.


You are wrong about virtually everything you have stated.

First, the specific date for the protest was chosen by the editors of Adbusters. They're are lefty in nature, but they have very little in common with the ideas of Karl Marx, as described by Karl Marx himself or his followers. Marxists have a critique of political economy that is serious and technical. Adbusters is more like an academic wank-a-thon about utopian aspirations and good art design.

Second, Adbusters was not the first to say that this needed to happen. The guy who started Ampedstatus.com was arguing for this long ago. He regularly appears on Max Keiser's show, who has also called for this kind of activity. It's true that Stephen Lerner made a similar call last Spring. However, expressing the same idea and being connected to the actual organizing of an event occurring months later can be two completely different things. Many people have been calling for action like this. Many people in other countries have been taking action like this. Occupy Wall Street was inspired by protests that have been happening all over the world against bailouts and corruption. Were these all masterminded by communist conspirators and funded by Soros too? Give me a break. I suppose Anonymous (which has been directly involved in organizing this protest) is another tentacle on the evil Soros Octopus too.

[I would add that after Lerner made his comments he was kicked out of the SEIU. So much for radical-commie unions...]

The current occupation at Liberation Square is being primarily organized by anarchists, as they and their ideas are what is defining the actual process of organizing. How do I know this? I went to nycga.cc, where you can read the minutes of the meetings at Liberation Square. I'm familiar enough with anarchist practices to recognize that ideology in the use of consensus process, stacking, and sign language. That is not to say that everyone there is an anarchist. That is clearly not true. But it is to say that the current protests were not formed by Union organizers, or some highly centralized communist plot. And it's obvious that Soros is not supporting it either. You'd think Soros could pull some strings with the media or with NYPD to protect the protest. He could obviously provide them with all the resources needed to print propaganda, feed themselves, and keep warm too. However, they do not have these resources in enough abundance to forego asking for (and receiving) donations from supporters and local businesses.

[Compare the way Occupy Wallstreet is being organized to the way the Tea Party got organized, where it was trumpeted from the most popular show on the most popular cable news network, and then suddenly had a number of well funded groups traveling the country in luxury busses. I'll wager that Occupy Wallstreet never tours the country in million dollar busses.]

Third, Alex Jones is not a serious source of information on this subject. With a few exceptions logic is unnecessary to his theorizing. The thinking process is so screwed up at Infowars that I am of the opinion that it is a disinformation outlet, despite it getting some things right (broken clocks, etc.). And I note that after reading the elaborate conspiracy at Alex Jones' site there is absolutely no mention of Stephen Lerner's participation. You made that part up. Apparently on the assumption (refuted above) that if someone privately advocates doing something and then it happens six months later, he must have been plotting and colluding to make it happen. Your assumption has NO PROOF. It is based on nothing. On the other hand, the actual organization of the protest is completely open to anyone who wants to see it. You can go to the park. You can read the meeting minutes the protesters post on their website. There is plenty of evidence to support the contention that this was spontaneous and self-organized.

Nonetheless, it's worth breaking down the tangled web of claims in the article you linked. The article claims:

1. Adbusters made the call for the occupation to happen.

2. Adbusters received grants from the Tides Foundation between 1996 and 2003.

3. According to a totally unsubstantiated claim by some blogger Tides Foundation received $7 million from the Soros Foundation.

4. Then for some reason they jump to a totally new organization called the Ruckus Society (which is based in California). They imply that Ruckus is connected to a website called USdaysofrage.org, but no information to substantiate it is given.

5. They state flat-out that USdaysofrage is the same thing as Occupy Wallstreet. No evidence is given.

Here's how the whole thing gets put together:

a. Soros gives money to Tides Foundation at an unknown time in the past.

b. Tides Foundation gave money to the Ruckus Society. Tides Foundation also gave money to Adbusters between 1996 and 2003.

c. Ruckus Society is somehow connected to USdaysofrage

d. USdaysofrage is the same as Occupy Wallstreet.

Therefore George Soros funded and planned the Occupy Wall Street protest, using Marxist groups as proxies.

So here's the thing about how logic works: The points above are called premises. If we assume that all the premises are true, but we can still think of an alternative conclusion, then the argument is invalid. One alternative is that none of these groups are Marxists (and they're not). Another possibility is that grant money was given for projects that are totally unrelated to the protest on Wallstreet, perhaps some other protest in California (where Ruckus is from) or to fund some art project with Adbusters eight years ago. However, most of the factual claims in the premises are supported by no evidence, and are likely untrue. #1 is true. #2 may be true, but is irrelevant; unless you believe Adbusters has been planning this protest for eight years there is no reason to believe that there is any connection between them and Tides Foundation that is relevant to the Occupy Wallstreet protest. #3, #4, and #5 are backed up by nothing, and are an unacceptable premises because of the lack of evidence.

At base, the argument from Infowars is that Occupy Wallstreet is controlled by Soros through a chain of links. However, without evidence of actual organizational connections with the protest in New York, the last three links are simply a guilt by association fallacy:

1. Ruckus supports protesting Wallstreet, and is leftist

2. Days of Rage supports protesting Wallstreet, and is leftist

3. Occupy Wallstreet supports protesting Wallstreet, and is leftist

Therefore all these groups are associated. Well, no, they could all be acting independently and coming to similar conclusions.

This is typical red-baiting of the movement. People share a dislike of Wall Street (as do many on the right) but because they have some leftist politics they must all organize their thoughts and actions through some evil conspiracy headed up by a centralized and international communist organization, in this case the Soros Foundation (which has nothing to do with communism). McCarthy would be proud of this reds-under-the-bed nonsense, and I suppose McCarthy is who you take your lead from given that you have his image as your avatar.

Moreover, the idea that the world is controlled or manipulated through the Tides Foundation or the Soros Foundation is ridiculous. Why don't you pose as a commie trying to start a class war and ask for a grant from Tides or Soros and see what happens. You'll probably have the cops sent to your door. I might also add that these Tides and Soros are far from evil, even if I don't agree with their politics. There is no comparing foundations that are generally trying to help people and do good, with fascist and racist organizations, like Nazis and the Klan. You'd have to be from another planet to believe there is any equivalence between these organizations. Yet, this is the analogy you are apparently drawing given that your original question is whether I would support the protests if I knew that evil people were involved in organizing them, specifically the Klan. And your subsequent clarification is a question of whether I would support the protest if it was organized by Soros. Still, to answer your stupid question - I would not support the protest if it was organized by Soros or any other establishment organization. But it's not organized by them, and has been ridiculed and attacked by the powerful and well-connected, so I support the protest.

The bottom line is whose side are you on? The bankers or the people. Red-baiting and illogical conspiracy theorizing for why a good thing must be an evil plot to trick everyone is just another method of attacking the people and supporting the bankers.

Oct 4, 2011 - 12:42am
Oct 3, 2011 - 10:24am

@Q... not that it matters

@Q... not that it matters because I think your post is terribly one-dimensional -

I am not advocating any nuclear response now, the time for an action like that is past and the window closed before September of 2001 was over. We are stuck where we are and nothing is going to change the mindset of any of the people who want to kill us now.

And that's the primary point, many people are "programmed for violence". There are many neighborhoods in NYC I would love to see you walk through at 2 AM to demonstrate the point. So what are you going to do when confronted by violence? The human race as proved time and again, negotiating yourself away piece by piece is a short-term solution, but in the end your still 100% sold out to those who want to enslave you. If you like that type of encroaching submission, please get out your Vaseline jar and prepare. I, for one, will still ascribe to an overwhelming response NOW instead of innumerable skirmishes for the rest of my life.

You, my friend, are completely unable to change human nature. And we are all barely able to change our own habits.

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Oct 3, 2011 - 9:41am

New Thead

on Main Street

RuNutsBig L
Oct 3, 2011 - 6:48am

Big L

You said:

"How is it that 500,000 people, or perhaps many more, could have marched on Washington on 9/12/2009 and have ZERO arrests?

Yet somehow these 800 people can't manage to cross a bridge without getting themselves arrested?"

WTF ever, you've been presented multiple (1) pieces of (2) documentation that clearly shows the protesters were "led to the slaughter".

You are either a disinformation agent, blind or caught up in a reality bias so strong you are unable to believe your own lying eyes.

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