Wed, Jul 13, 2011 - 11:41am

Well, the doldrums look like they've wrapped up about a month earlier than expected.

Gold is just fantastic. It needs to hold these gains until the Comex close. As stated yesterday, a close above the previous intraday high of 1577.80 would be extremely if the chart wasn't already bullish enough!

Silver is scaring the living daylights out of the shorts today. They should be scared at this point. Silver has finally broken through the down-sloping trendline from May and appears poised to go tackle the all-important 39.50 level. It, too, needs to hang onto these gains into the close. I'd like to see it print a Comex close above 37.88, which is the intraday high of 6/10/11.

Crude, copper, the's all good as The Bernank has apparently decided that there was no point in further lies/deception regarding the eventual continuance of QE to infinity.

More later. TF

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Jul 13, 2011 - 4:36pm
Economical Disaster Eric Original
Jul 13, 2011 - 4:37pm


Silver will never be priced above gold. Stop being silly.

If you are taking day to day advice from people who push that fairly tale then you are bound for misery.

I find it quite funny that posters "KNOW" the future prices of commodities. REALLY FUNNY.

FalseParadigm bullwhip29
Jul 13, 2011 - 4:38pm


I sold into this rally. Another classic bait and switch. I'm expecting CPI and PPI numbers to show that inflation is [temporarily] "slowing." Then when we have a debt ceiling deal, I think all markets (including PMs) will drop.

Mid and long term outlooks are obviously bullish, but short-term has a lot of downside pressure IMO.

QE3 will not come with the markets trading at their current levels.

Continue stacking but keep a sizeable amount of cash reserves ready to BTFD.

Jul 13, 2011 - 4:39pm


We've all gone mad!

FalseParadigm Eric Original
Jul 13, 2011 - 4:40pm

You never know...

Remember at one point in history silver was MORE valuable than gold. Since silver is a consumable metal (and gold is not) I definitely see the possibility of silver becoming more valuable. But then again that all depends on whether the elites allow it to be...Which I think is highly unlikely considering that they own gold and no silver.

Jul 13, 2011 - 4:42pm

  I love this place.

I love this place.

Jul 13, 2011 - 4:45pm

Bigger than big

Video unavailable
Boomerang Johnson Eric Original
Jul 13, 2011 - 4:48pm

re: Davies

well, he did have a bit of an assist from the flurry of comex margin raises, didn't he?

Jul 13, 2011 - 4:51pm

QE3 what?

The only reason why the Bernank doesn't think gold is money is because he can't print it.

Jul 13, 2011 - 4:53pm

First one

I find it quite funny that posters "KNOW" the future prices of commodities. REALLY FUNNY.

First one To show me $1500 large for an Ounce of silver gets it. And I'll toss in a shiny new box for you too display it in. PLEASE! Feel free to hit me up.

Jul 13, 2011 - 4:55pm
tmosley LaMachinna
Jul 13, 2011 - 4:56pm

Sure.  Basically, the COMEX

@la machinna

Sure. Basically, the COMEX is the only gold and silver futures market on the planet. This means that any industrial user that wants to lock in future prices either has to negotiate their own contract with a mine (pain in the ass, as you can't get out of it easily by selling it to a third party, and since the price isn't dictated by the market, one party is likely to get ripped off), or you can go long a contract or more on the COMEX months or even years in advance, and stand for delivery when you need the metal.

Now, if one of the core thoughts in the silver investment community proves true, and the metal in the COMEX warehouses is owned by multiple parties, or doesn't exist, then the COMEX will default on silver deliveries. They might stall by giving SLV shares, but that is worthless to industrial users, unless they use so much they can make a redemption request from SLV. And if the COMEX is fraudulent, SLV likely is too, as they are run by more or less the same people.

So now, the industrial users are stuck with this worthless paper, so they have to buy off the open market. But not only that, now that they know they can't get silver from the COMEX, they realize that the price is likely to go up soon. So they don't just buy what they need now, they buy what they will need later to. Perhaps they buy silver equal to all the futures contracts they are long. At the same time, they sell those contracts. This creates a systemic disconnect between the price of physical and the price of paper. The paper goes to zero on super high volatility (as speculators are still too dumb to tell the difference, or the government tries to prop it to pretend their pet banks can meet their obligations), while the price of physical rises VERY quickly. Basically, all the silver users will try to buy all the silver they need for the next X months/years at once. This is an industrial panic, as not only do those who lock in price via the futures market buy, but EVERYONE that uses silver must buy, because they don't know where this will end.

But that kind of buying can't last forever. It will end in a blow off top, and silver will fall from there to a more normal ratio with gold. If things go as I had originally postulated, you would be able to step off of the silver train just as it hits the blow off top, and onto the gold train, which will then take you through the currency crisis.

If the currency crisis happens first, I would say that either metal will be about the same. I would continue to hold silver simply because of the supply demand fundos, but I would probably hold gold as well.

Sterling SilverTree
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:02pm

Is it even legal to own a

Is it even legal to own a Liberty Dollar? Not that it matters....

33 and a turd
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:10pm
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:11pm

Gold priced in CHF

priced in Swiss Franc, Gold went down today

Zoltan FalseParadigm
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:15pm

Silver more than Gold?


I found a reference to silver dollars being a higher melt than gold dollars in 1919 but the weight isn't the same (is 16:1). Is this what you are referring to or do you have another example?


Dr G FalseParadigm
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:16pm

@SeverinSlade, couldn't

@SeverinSlade, couldn't disagree more. The trend is up. Traders may get screwed here and there trying to flip AU or AG, but those who buy and hold are good to go.

A debt ceiling deal, so we can go more in debt, is bad news for the PMs? Absurd. More government debt = more money creation = PMs go up.

On the flip side, no debt deal = default? = PMs go up.

The writing is on the wall. QE3 absolutely will come no matter what the markets are trading at. The bottom line is that the government has to pay for their expenditures, and that is all QE is good for, no matter what the say it is for.

I see all systems green with minimal downside pressure. I see greater upside pressure. Pan Asia exchange?

Gold Member tmosley
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:17pm


I appreciate your insightful posts on ZH and here.....maybe I haven't thought things through completely but I would love to hear your opinion on a couple of things you mentioned earlier posts.

I hear you and totally get the idea of using Gold to buy assets on the cheap during the peak of a hyperinflationary crisis. The theory is's also part of my plan but I get stuck when thinking through the logistical stuff when the time to make the trades comes.

What would be the mechanics of using Gold to buy an asset? I mean....I understand that most trades on the street could work out in a barter-system form. No one would be willing to accept less than worthless fiat currency for a productive asset. But for trades that require a title transfer of ownership, how would those things work?

e.g. Let's say you bought a property that was worth $100,000 pre-collapse for a handful of gold coins. What value will you say it's worth when you go to record the sale with the local government? Will they be willing to accept that you traded gold coins for the property? Or will there be some token amount of worthless fiat exchanged in addition to the gold to allow you to record a "paper" buying price?

Also, if one wanted to buy a large amount of stock in a company that is trading for pennies on the dollar, how would you be able to convert some of your gold into fiat? I'm assuming the stock will still be priced in fiat. my mind, the challenge is to convert gold into fiat....get it into the brokerage account before it devalues too much...and then buy the stocks one wants. So essentially it's a race against the devaluing currency.

Or were you thinking of trading gold for assets after the collapse when a new currency regime is instituted that would be more or less stable but with depressed asset prices?

Jul 13, 2011 - 5:19pm
jmmergott BlueStreak
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:20pm

I AGREE 100%

Hey, I'm the biggest gold bull there is, but I cant think of a time in all my career ive watched gold go up so much so quickly and been so disturbed by it doing so. SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE PEOPLE!!! REMAIN CAUTIOUS AND KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY! SOMETHING IS FISHY!!!!

Dr G jmmergott
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:31pm

Could be (I preach 2 steps

Could be (I preach 2 steps forward, 1 step back when it comes to PM spot prices), or it could be that we've turned the proverbial corner and the wheels are rolling faster than we've ever witnessed in the past.

Time will tell, and certainly profit-taking will enter into the picture at some point. Will the bulls nibble at the dip when that happens? I believe so.

Jul 13, 2011 - 5:32pm

@Gold Member

1) If bartering you can use $1 notional for the record keeping (and the tax man).

2) JPM is one of several recent institutions which accepts gold as collateral for any account.



33 and a turd
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:39pm

USD/CHF  is going nuts since

USD/CHF is going nuts since the ratings warning.

Gold will likely gap up when it starts trading again

Jul 13, 2011 - 5:40pm

James Turk on KWN yesterday

“One never knows exactly how the markets will unfold, but my sense is that we only have several more days of silver in the 30’s. Once silver clears $38 on a closing basis, you are going to get back into the mid 40’s in a heartbeat.”

Let's hope he's right - All aboard the silver train! Choo-choo!

Jul 13, 2011 - 5:51pm
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:55pm


1600.76 gold

Dr G
Jul 13, 2011 - 5:58pm

Today's silver gains in the

Today's silver gains in the Comex spot price were the largest since March of 2009.

Silver Monkey FalseParadigm
Jul 13, 2011 - 6:04pm

wait a minute


Submitted by SeverinSlade on July 13, 2011 - 3:38pm.

I sold into this rally. Another classic bait and switch. I'm expecting CPI and PPI numbers to show that inflation is [temporarily] "slowing." Then when we have a debt ceiling deal, I think all markets (including PMs) will drop.

We raise the debt ceiling and print more money and somehow you think anyone would buy that inflation was going down?

Jul 13, 2011 - 6:17pm

I think the latest goldrush

I think the latest goldrush started last week when gold shot up from 1500 to 1525. With policymakers and politics going bananas all over, it's clear the masses are starting to wake up! Maybe people need the laidback summer time to think clear and really see what's happening. The western debt is to high and cant be papered over forever! Some banks and funds is going to be offerd to the gods of deflation and debt is going to be written down. There is no way out. Then QE3 will be justified again......sic fucking bandits!

unavailable SilverTree
Jul 13, 2011 - 6:20pm

Why should you insult a

Why should you insult a decent Lybian man with this satanic beard?


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